General => Lounge => Topic started by: Bird351 on August 16, 2006, 03:12:19 PM
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: Bird351 on August 16, 2006, 03:12:19 PM
I don't know, maybe it's because my doctor took me off my only decent pain medication yesterday and I'm somewhere between fetal-position-hurting and shoot-me-now-hurting, (imagine you just got your ass kicked by an entire basketball team, but your doctor told you you couldn't take anything stronger than Tylenol for it, and that's about how I've felt all of today) but over on FordMuscle they posted yet another garbage news article about yet another garbage Mustang.. so I snapped. Here's what happened, and I'm the user 89LSC over there:
I'm not fishing for blind agreement here or anything of the sort.. I'm really just making conversation to take my mind off how awful I feel right now. But seeing as I'm one of those people who's assumed (by Oldraven, at least) to be a "die-hard Ford guy", I was curious to see what kind of reaction would come from people seeing me Ford-bash for a change. OK, fire away.. :p
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: ipsd on August 16, 2006, 04:32:54 PM
maybe you should kick the Dr's ass until he gives up that script. I has got to be alot of pain for a ford guy to bash on him self. Hince I'd rather push a ford than drive a Chevy! Suck to here about that hope it gets better.
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: Bird351 on August 16, 2006, 04:40:08 PM
I can't take much of anything right now. I start taking Amitriptyline tonight.. it has drug interaction warnings with just about everything on the market. I can't even have a beer to dull the pain. But, on the flip side, it will help with the sleep problems that come with fibromyalgia. I may actually get my first good night's sleep in years, even if the rest of the day blows chunks.
What else sucks right now is that we have another round of really wicked lightning storms headed this way, so I can't use my other pain-relief fallback, the heating pad. Blah.
By the way, my doctor's a woman. I wouldn't kick her ass. :p
EDIT: Well it looks like today's problems were me going into withdrawal because my doctor told me to stop taking the Ultram, and I took her too literally. I went from two every six hours to nothing, and now I'm a wreck. So I took some, and I'll reduce my dose over the next few days. Going to mention this when I talk to her again.
I'll probably get lynched for my latest follow-up post over there, daring to say I don't give a about V8s.. but I don't care. I'm a left-handed Atheist who doesn't care much for V8s.. I'm already used to being at odds with most of the population. :p
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: David on August 16, 2006, 04:48:58 PM
I agree with your points. I'm one of those that'd buy the brand if there was something reasonably interesting in the lots to look at.
When I went car shopping not too long ago, I was looking at interesting cars that I could see myself driving in a year or two... Did I stop by the Ford dealership? Yeah, but I sure spent less time there then any other dealership I went to. I would love to buy a Ford, but those Infinities and BMW's certainly have my eye more than they do. Hell even Kia and Hyundia have their appealing aspects to me at this point. They certainly aren't "fast" but the cougar holds that title and isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
But yes, it seems if you want "fast" and "fun" you need to step back in time a bit.
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: Thunder Chicken on August 16, 2006, 07:01:53 PM
Aside from the Mustang and Fusion, Ford's got NOTHING. The Mustang is neat but a limited appeal car, and the Fusion is only just average in a field of highly competent competitors. The 500 is way behind the curve, the Focus is ancient, and the Crown Vic is just plain jurrassic. I already have a useless 2-dr RWD V8 car so I wouldn't buy a Mustang, and I'd take a Mazdaspeed 6 over a Fusion, so there is absolutely nothing compelling me to enter a Ford dealership were in the market for a new car. Now, once the 3.5 Duratec becomes widely available some of Ford's more boring cars may become appealing, but by then it'll be too little, too late as far as I'm concerned...
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: chrome302jr on August 16, 2006, 07:22:53 PM
I dont see this as Ford bashing at all, I see it as the cold hard truth. The new Ford slogan "Bold Moves" is laughable at best. Im not the type of person to buy a car(or truck) simply because its got a Ford emblem on the front, and I think Ford is really relying on repeat customers here.
I would like to see Ford s the mod motor all together, there I said it. Ford's mod motor is total garbage, they took a try at it, and were unsuccessful at an attempt to make a reliable OHC performance V8 engine. It may be due to lack of R&D, it may be due to lack of beta testing, etc.
I personally would like a V8, but the only RWD platform we have to choose from is the Stang. Not that I dont like the stang, or have a bitterness against it as some do, I would prefer a car that is different than every other performance Ford on the road.
History has shown us that Aussie styling doesnt market well in the US. You cannot continue to sell a car that is not profitable. But Ford needs to live up to the "Bold Moves" they claim and release more RWD V8(or performance V6) platforms. The Grand National has shown that turbo V6s can kick ass. At this point, I think Ford should do something, because I wouldnt buy one single car they have out except a mustang, and Id buy a GTO before I bought one. The three valve design is a piss poor design and not something I would want to deal with again.
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: Bird351 on August 16, 2006, 07:49:06 PM
Quote from: chrome302jr
History has shown us that Aussie styling doesnt market well in the US.
Purely ludicrous hypothetical situation: Someone holds a gun to your head, and tells you you only have two choices. One is to take a Five Hundred, the other is to take a twin-turbo I6 Falcon. You must drive either one for at least a year. Which do you choose?
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: chrome302jr on August 16, 2006, 08:00:47 PM
Of course the Falcon, again I dont speak for the US market though so I dont see the relevance here.
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: chrome302jr on August 16, 2006, 08:09:14 PM
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: Bird351 on August 16, 2006, 08:12:57 PM
The relevance here is that while Aussie cars may not have done well historically, right now Ford's US lineup isn't very appealing. Could it really be as bad as the Five Hundred?
An alternative as I posted over on FM is to tart it up a bit, and sell a 2-door version here as a re-resurrected T-bird. Or Cougar. Or Capri. Or Fairlane. Or Falcon. Whatever. ANYTHING. A little choice would be nice. Something else to lust after other than a Stang. Doesn't have to beat the Stang, just be fast and INTERESTING. I wouldn't even care if it was a 4-door. (hell, I'm after a 4-door as we speak)
EDIT: Now that you've posted a picture, what about that car really screams Aussie, aside from the inline 6? It's not like a Volvo with its Swedish styling.. or German, or Italian, or puppiesanese. That car doesn't look out of place to me in the US or the UK. Sure, it's not exactly a supercar, but we're not talking about Astons or Ferraris here.
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: cougrrr302 on August 16, 2006, 11:57:06 PM
I had this same arguement tonight with a friend. Ford doesnt have any imagination what so ever. Dodge has a beautiful creation of a retro styled Challenger. But like the Rustang, Dodge decided to slap the good name of Charger onto a Four door sedan. Chevy has the most imagination out of all of the manufacturers, minus the new Camaro. It doesnt matter whether they are sporting a V8 or a 4 banger. It has to look good. Something new, not the same old .
That is one reason I will always work on the Cougar first. No one here knows what it is, and no one has one. Hell I drive a Yellow Escape. An SUV. Yes I see quite a few Yellow ones, but its different, its nice to see something radical and different sitting in the driveway or cruising through town.
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: CougarCoupe88 on August 17, 2006, 12:21:59 AM
that falcon looks like a 2004 325 bmw in ways. and reminds me of the Gto. if they did bring it here im sure people would bash on that it looks to much like this and that. but bet it would walk on this and that to with the I6Tor I6TT 6speedand be gas freindly on the wallet
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: Bird351 on August 17, 2006, 12:24:10 AM
It may look like this or that, but honestly, what doesn't these days? Outside of the pony cars and the exotics, anyway. (or the really ugly shiznit like the PT Snoozer) They all morphed into the same basic car.
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: slamedcat on August 17, 2006, 12:37:39 AM
Can't you get the Aussie Falcon in AWD also? If so that thing has tones of potential over here.
One hell of a torque monster inline 6 with a turbo and AWD. Ford would show the mitsu and subaru guys that they are no longer king of the hill in the US.
And as for cars all looking the same. Here is proof. (http://"http://www.motordesktop.com/wallpaper_sportscars2.php") Look at the four cars at the top of the page.
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: tbirdscott on August 17, 2006, 01:17:25 AM
Quote from: slamedcat
And as for cars all looking the same. Here is proof. (http://"http://www.motordesktop.com/wallpaper_sportscars2.php") Look at the four cars at the top of the page.
Thats funny but thats the way it is and has been for the last 10-15 years, I was car shopping 2-3 months ago and I gotta say hyundai had the most intrest in my price range (around/under20K) but even then the quality sucked, I always found something that didnt fit the way I liked or moved a way I didnt I eventually gave up and decided i'd be better off rebuilding my sprint instead, in the shape its in now it still gets better mileage than anything else I saw while I was out (except for the smart car but no)
So the curerent plan is to get another turbo engine to rebuild (done) get another trans and do the same (this weekend) and upgrade the braking and handling department while i'm at it (readily available stock parts) and instead of blowing +/- 20K on a car that will be worth nothing in a dozen years i've got a house thats only going to go down in value if it burns to the ground.
In the end i've got a unique, efficient, reliable, practical vehicle and more money in my pocket.
Oh and as far as ford goes for vehicles I didnt even bother stopping in there, the only thing they have that fit what I was looking for is the *yawn* focus.
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: Haystack on August 17, 2006, 02:07:08 AM
I rather like the focus, but after drinving around in a freinds 2000, what is the point? the car sucks. Its slightly faster then my cougar, but there are so many problems with it already.
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: slamedcat on August 17, 2006, 02:35:13 AM
Quote from: Haystack
Its slightly faster then my cougar, but there are so many problems with it already.
My 2001 would kick the out of my cougar. But then it blew out 3rd gear. The engine wireing harness started falling apart. The buttons on the dash started sticking.....
Ya they are nice when new then they start going down hill and fast.
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: Bird351 on August 17, 2006, 02:18:51 PM
OK, here's today's idea: Take the Aussie Falcon, give it doors similar to the Mazda RX-8.. two big main doors and two smaller suicide half-doors.. give it the TT I6, a 6-speed, and AWD if available as mentioned above.. and bring it on over. THAT would be interesting.. to me, anyway. I'd photoshop one up if I could do that sort of thing.
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: 5.0willgo on August 17, 2006, 06:51:59 PM
You really can't get away from cars resembling other cars anymore. I think the earlier posted Falcon looks like a late 90's Malibu on steroids.
Hell, even trucks can't escape it. Look at the change in sales Dodge had with the redesign of their trucks after '93 starting in the '94 model year. Now other manufacturers look like they are trying to bank on their style of the big grill with lower sitting smaller headlights. Look at the Ford F-250 and up and you'll see what I mean.
I've liked how Dodge has given their cars a bold design and each one was different in it's own special way. Although I think now that bold edgy in your face styling that they are giving EVERY new design is getting old quick.
Chevy's cars are appealing IMO. I drove an '06 Impala while my Tib was in the shop and I really liked the styling and ride. The get up and go was terrific. Interior wasn't as nice as it could be but it was a stripped base model anyway.
Ford's are just not appealing at all to me. Besides every time I pass the dealership, they have every Mustang in their inventory in the front row facing the road. They are relying on it wayy too much.
Hyundai I think does have appealing cars although the new accent is a step way in the wrong direction. I'm very happy with mine. 33K miles and no major problems. Just a couple small nuisances that the warrenty took care of. The car isn't a performer but compared to the competition of other cars in it's class, it's the most bang for the buck and it's styling sets it far apart from the rest.
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: 88_302_tcoupe on August 18, 2006, 01:22:09 AM
I totally agree with 351bird in his statements... I've been saying the exact same thing... Hell its almost as bad as Dodge's "lets put a 351 hemi in everything:hick:" idea... Ford is way too lacking in thier new selection...
I had an idea alil while ago tho... What if ford remade the Turbo Coupe... Y'know, give it a fresher'sh fox-body'sh design... Mabye spice it up alil bit... and then instead of going mild with a 4.6L, drop in a 460 Twin-Turbo... Tell me that wouldnt sell!!! For one it would be appealing to pretty much every T-bird guy in this forum and for two it would be a fresh Idea that would easily spank a z06 vette... I know costs would be a major issue but c'mon! That would be crazy!
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: Bird351 on August 18, 2006, 02:06:43 AM
Pretty much every guy in the forum? Not quite. Some of us don't chase after the biggest possible V8 we can cram into our cars. Some, like Chuck and myself, don't even care if it's not a V8 at all or even prefer it not to be a V8. Note that the car I've been mentioning here (the Aussie Falcon) is a twin-turbo inline 6. I would take that over a 460 any day of the week no matter how much more horsepower the 460 made. I just like inline 6s. And as I pointed out in the comments that brought me to start this thread, I have plenty of V8s as it is. (five) Don't need or want any more. In fact, I'm trying to get rid of at least one of them.. and one of my ultimate goals is to find a Fairmont or Zephyr and build it up with an all-aluminum 2.5T.
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: tbirdscott on August 18, 2006, 03:00:05 AM
Quote from: Bird351
Pretty much every guy in the forum? Not quite. Some of us don't chase after the biggest possible V8 we can cram into our cars. Some, like Chuck and myself, don't even care if it's not a V8 at all
I drive a 1.0L 3cyl :D
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: Thunder Chicken on August 18, 2006, 08:50:03 AM
Quote from: 88_302_tcoupe
I had an idea alil while ago tho... What if ford remade the Turbo Coupe... Y'know, give it a fresher'sh fox-body'sh design... Mabye spice it up alil bit... and then instead of going mild with a 4.6L, drop in a 460 Twin-Turbo... Tell me that wouldnt sell!!!
OK, I'm telling you: That wouldn't sell. OUr cars are not old enough to be brought back as a "retro" design, and even when new they weren't particularly sought after. Gas is over three bucks a gallon, so a twin-turbo V8 of any displacement wouldn't sell. The 460's been out of production for nearly a decade, and at its best I don't think it ever produced the power of a plain ol' 5.4. It may have produced much more torque, but I don't remember any big horsepower numbers from the 460.
Face it: The Windsor and FE are both dead. The modular is Fords engine of the moment and forseeable future. If a new T-Bird or Cougar ever does surface it will most likely be powered by one. Even if Ford does some day reintroduce pushrods (like Chrysler did with the Hemi) it would be a new engine, not a Windsor.
Here's a better idea: Take the Aussie falcon coupe, bring it over here, and call it Thunderbird. Better idea as it is, though, it won't happen because A) Pontiac tried that with the GTO and failed and B) Ford has ruined the Thunderbird name with that retro shiznitpile a few years back
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: Bird351 on August 18, 2006, 03:57:34 PM
The T-bird name was ped on long before the last incarnation. *points to the 1970s* At this point they could stick the T-bird name on a souped-up golf cart and it probably wouldn't do too much more damage than has been done already.
I don't think you can compare the Monaro/GTO thing and this possible (in our minds) Falcon/T-bird thing. Maybe I missed some other re-issue of the GTO name, but when I think of GTO I only think of the late 60s and then today's attempt with the Monaro. With only two to compare between, it's easy to all over the Monaro version. When I think of T-bird I think of the 50s 2-seater, the 60s suicide-doored land-yacht, the 70s barges, the box-Fox-Bird, the aero-Bird, the fat-assed MN12s, and this last 2-seater. What would you put a Falcon-based T-bird up against for the same comparison? Let's say they went with my suggestion, a Falcon with RX8-style doors.. would you compare that to the suicide-doored 60s boat? Would you compare it to our cars? (I have thought of attempting those RX8-style mini suicide doors on my 4-eyed)
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: slamedcat on August 18, 2006, 04:58:36 PM
I will apologize for the py photshop job. But you said you wanted to see a RX8 stlye door on the Falcon. So I did the best I could.
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: Thunder Chicken on August 18, 2006, 09:03:21 PM
Quote from: Bird351
(I have thought of attempting those RX8-style mini suicide doors on my 4-eyed)
Funny, way back in '98 when I had the '88 LS I was dreaming of putting suicide doors on it. This was when the Saturn 3-door coupe made its debut (Saturn did it before Mazda) and I thought the lines of the Cougar just begged for such a mod. You could have the whole side of the car from the base of the backlight to the back of the front door open, and the roof line and upside down quarter window would work great with the design.
Then again, I also had dreams of a 2-door 85 T-Bird wagon with removable rear portion of the roof (such as the optional roof on early 90's Nissan Pulsars)... And my current if-I-ever-win-the-lotto dream is a GT-powered (supercharged, aluminum 5.4 DOHC), all-wheel-drive (Lincoln Navigator transfer case), 4-wheel-independent-suspension, 87-88 Cougar. I gotta stop having these dreams :hick:
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: Bird351 on August 19, 2006, 03:50:16 PM
Hahaha.. I finally got someone over there who took a bit of offense to my Rustang-bashing. I'll quote my response over here in case they delete it:
Quote
Someone’s getting a little sensitive about their Rustang and dissenting opinions on it. :D Can’t say I’m surprised.
Yes, you ARE talking to the wrong person.. the RIGHT person would be someone who cares how new the Rustang chassis is vs. the Aussie Falcon. What you have in the way of older chassis is irrelevant, because you were talking to me and not yourself. If you were talking to yourself, then what would’ve been the point of posting?
I live in southwest Florida, and most of my cars are from Florida. Neither of my Marks have more than a couple rust spots and some surface rust.. and the worst rust out of any of the four cars is the door rot on my ‘86 T-bird, but that car spent some of its life in Michigan. (my ‘85 Ram D100 also lacks anything worse than surface rust from spots where the paint faded and chipped.. 21 years in the sun will do that) I’d say it’s not too bad for four cars no younger than 17 years old, but you’ll probably say differently just to argue. All my subframes are just fine, thanks. We don’t salt our roads down here like they were french fries from McDogfood’s.
No wonder you think Foxes are , you’ve owned the bargain-basp00get Foxes. I’ve also had two Capris and a Fairmont, and I’d say the T-birds and Mark VIIs are a definite improvement over the lower Foxes. Enough so that if and when I do find a Fairmont or Zephyr to add to the collection, I’ll be trying to add the spare interior from my parts LSC to it.
I would probably say I have no interest in the LS or latest T-bird.
Enjoy a car that looks like someone’s droopy saggy depressed grandmother with her eyes too far apart on her head, like a deer. No, I don’t mean it looks like a grandmother should be driving a Rustang.. it looks like it IS someone’s grandmother. The “retro charm” is definitely wearing off. (and yes, I did throw this comment in because it was a little obvious you were taking the Rustang-bashing personally.. hah) I’d still take my Marks or my T-birds over any Rustang. To me, they have far more class than any Rustang will ever have. Sure, the Rustang may be faster, but I rarely drive above 75 mph anyway.. and I have absolutely zero interest in racing, officially or unofficially, so what’s the point? I have nothing to prove to the snot-nosed teens of the world.
Hell, I’d rather drive a Pinto.
Wake me up when you make interesting cars again, Ford. Until then, I’ll keep my 80s Fords. The styling is more interesting to me, they’re generally fast enough for my wants and needs, and *gasp* they actually get as good as or better mileage than some newer cars.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymake/bymanuNF.shtml - Ford Mustang 8 cyl, 4.6 L, Automatic (5 speed), Regular: 17 city, 23 highway - Ford Mustang 8 cyl, 4.6 L, Manual (5 speed), Regular: 17 city, 25 highway - Ford Mustang 8 cyl, 4.6 L, Manual (6 speed), Premium: 15 city, 21 highway - Lincoln Mark VII 8 cyl, 4.9 L, Automatic (4 sp), Regular: 17 city, 24 highway (that’s about right.. I don’t drive it like my hair’s on fire) - Ford Thunderbird 8 cyl, 4.9 L, Automatic (4 sp), Regular: 18 city, 27 highway (that too)
With AODs and 17-18 year old EFI systems in both Foxes, even! (fear the mighty EEC-IV.. hahaha) Might have something to do with me not having to lug around all that extra nanny-state garbage.
See you next Tuesday, when vacation ends. Goin’ out of town and I’m not taking “da intarweb” with me.
Time to start getting ready to leave.. have fun, folks.
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: Beau on August 19, 2006, 04:03:16 PM
yeah, I'll admit to wanting a new Mousesting when they first released the '05 versions..but now they're like bellybuttons-everybody has one. I think Ford is not really financially ready to have another white elephant (that latest "retro-styled Tbird i mean) I would guess GM is in the same boat...hopefully the new Camaro and Challenger/whatchamacallit brings out more old names with new faces...tastefully done, and not quite so retro influenced...i mean, c'mon...a little similarity, but jeeze... think looks like it coulda came out in 1974...from a distance anyway. (new mustang i mean) I guess my point here is that i think Ford, GM, and DCX had better start gettin' their collective asses in gear...right now, if I were to buy a semi-performance car new...i'd probably look at imports first..and i'm am a straight up die hard Ford fan. Hell, if i wasn't worried about gas, and mileage accumalated, I'd buy a Lightning and call it done. Have fun Bird351 :D
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: oldraven on August 21, 2006, 05:53:17 PM
Believe it or not, I'm with you all the way on this one. As much as I consider myself a VW/Chevy guy, I do think some of the most appealing cars on earth were made by Ford and its own. I just haven't seen that in anything they've built in quite some time. Maybe a handful in my lifetime would I consider owning.
As for you being a Die-hard, I did think that, but not so much as I thought you had a royal hate on for the chebby's. It turns out you've simply had some really bad experiences with brick wall Die-hards on the other side of the street.
And I hope you get those meds, or they find an alternative that helps. Having your ass kicked by a Basketball team must suck. ;)
-cheers
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: oldraven on August 21, 2006, 05:56:38 PM
Oh, and a Falcon based anything would be amazing. So long as it lost a tonne first. That thing is no featherweight. I'll welcome the powertrain any time, though, in any machine.
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: Beau on August 22, 2006, 09:53:27 PM
Quote from: oldraven
As for you being a Die-hard, I did think that, but not so much as I thought you had a royal hate on for the chebby's. It turns out you've simply had some really bad experiences with brick wall Die-hards on the other side of the street.
Nahhh. never considered myself much of a GM hater...every brand has problems of one kind or another, I had an S-10 Blazer that was indestructible, but my chevy truck I've been driving (only 42 thousand miles) has had more work than a fleet of Foci'...new dist. at 37 thousand, transfer case rebuilt back in 96, and some other stuff...now the ball joints are bad...and it hasn't been driven hard, or seen hardly any mud. I ain't hatin' on it...but I'd rather have spent those miles in my F-150..I just like the way the interiors of the newer Fords are.. Ford needs another hot seller..like the 87-93 Mustang was...and they need it NOW...
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: Bird351 on August 22, 2006, 10:34:26 PM
I believe he was responding to me. We had some early friction over my dislike of Chevys thanks to bad experiences with Chevy die-hards.
Title: Don't look here, Oldraven..
Post by: slamedcat on August 25, 2006, 01:26:48 PM
FPV (http://"http://www.fpv.com.au/cars/overview.aspx") This is the line of Ford vehicles that need to make their way here and get Ford out of its slump.