I had my trans build with 4r70w parts redline cluches ect....it was said to hold up to 13 9 sec passes @ 750 hp without any wear. (built by a well known builder around here)
my problem comes in this last friday, We were getting ready to go down town for our local cruise night, I FINALLY got my car running good, it was getting enough fuel and running strong, I put new suspention on it KYB adjustables all around, drag springs up front, air bags in the back...finally getting some traction, so we went on the longest test drive yet this year...like 10 miles...put the pedal to the floor 1st..2nd...3rd jumped and hit the rev limiter:mad: and that was it. The trans held up last year but we never had any traction, no doubt its got more power this year too.. the car has never seen a track.. its always broken. And the trans probly has maybe 1000 miles of just driveing on it, we only had one serious race last year and we blew the trans pump.(and won by the way)
Well Ive been trying to do some research on the AODs but it just confuseing me more, MU says a stock AODs good to 450 hp...- FB performance says 250 hp..- and lentechs street cruser trans is only good for 300 hp...? I found one trany built like mine at transmissioncenter.org that say its good to 750hp too. Thats quite a range! So anyone know a real number? What do you put your AOD through? How much can the output shaft handle? I havent had time to get the trans out to see what happend yet. The back of the dipstick has black swirls in it...that cant be good. What might have happend? I dont know a whole lot about transmissions, could it be a valve body problem? some people were suggesting the torque convertor..
Right now Im not sure what to do with my trany, I was thinking to get it fixed and put in a Lentech automatics valve body in it for $500, that SHOULD make it good to 800 hp...or just buy a Lentech trany good to 1000hp but Id need a non lockin torque convertor and that gets pricey. but if I keep having to fix mine then it might be worth it..
Not having 3rd gear didnt stop us form taking the car out for a little while... we went out long enough to pick a race with a camaro ss and WON! He was pretty suprised to here the car had no 3rd gear...:giggle: but saturday night it was killing us watching all of the midnight highway racing...
Help me please! Thanx!
I'd go back to your trany guy he must of messed something up. You’re talking a lot of HP so the trany has to be perfect or it will blow right away. A friend of mines father has a pro-mod and he’s pushing 3000HP hooked up to a super worked PowerGlide trany. Car drove up and around pits no problem, but 1st run he cooked it. He brought it back to the trany guy and he found out he was missing a clutch (I think there’s 9 clutch in there). Point of the story is they probably did something wrong so go back.
You should go with a single input shaft that uses the C6 spline. The 4R70W sprag and Planeterty. It needs a 1 way dioad that is from the 4R70W and a GOOD valve body.(Lentech,Art Carr).
My car puts around 500Rear Wheel HP down and my trans has 150 1/4 passes or so on it. Some with N2O and some with a turbo.
Hope this helps
Other than a Transgo shift kit my AOD is stock and is behind a 302 with Trick flow heads,cam and intake. 8 years and 55K miles are on it and she still barks the 1-2 shift all the time and on occasion the 2-3 shift when the weather is right for good traction.
If it has just 1st & 2nd, you may have broken the inner shaft that splines into the front hub of the converter(assuming you don't have one of the hardened variety)... It happened to me the first time I took mine to the track and that was with street tires. Although getting tired mine is still living almost seven years after I bought it used and installed a Trans Go kit.. I have made passes with a 150hp shot of nitrous approx 500hp total and didn't kill it, but I was lucky.
As far as HP ratings they are just that.. As long as you have the two piece input figure 350-400 as a safe limit with the hardened inner...
Lentech does make a Strip Terminator with lock up now...and just replacing the valvebody won't make your trans capable of holding 800hp...lol. The strip terminator with lock up is nice(if you have the $3500) because it runs 1-2-3 off the main shaft and only uses the little inner shaft(which is hardened in their application) for OD instead of 3rd and OD...even still they limit their OD capacity to 550hp.
5.8 fast cat: Im tring to keep cost down so I didnt want to swich to a non locking convertor, its already built with the 4r70w stuff but I havent heard of a one way dioad, Ill have to check on that and I pretty sure it just has a shift kit he wrote B&M stage 6 on it I think...cant remember. Is that how your trans is built?
TC50: 1st and 2nd are still hold'n up, but dont shift as hard as they did. I dont have a hardened imput shaft and havent had anybody around to help me get the trans down to see if thats the problem...Im not thinking that it is since the fluid is messed up....Are you saying your trans is STOCK! If you are Im headed to the s yard!:giggle:
Slick88tbird: I dont imagine that just a valve body would, but my trans is or I thought it was "built to handle 750 hp" already. Ive also heard that if you need 4th gear on a drag strip you have a problem.;) so OD excluded..
since no one around here with a mustang has ruined one of his trannys, I have no doubt that he put my trans together keeping in mind that it was just going in a cougar.:mad: I guess Ill have him try again and if it breaks again....its going thru his livingroom window!;)
altho...50 mustang magazine says lentech has a street terminator lockup trans for $2395 but I didnt see that on there site. I might just quit wasting money on mine and go with something I know will be good..
The internals of your trans may be able to withstand 750hp...for a little while, but 3rd and OD are run off of the little tiny inner shaft, instead of the outter input shaft...that's probably why when you hit 3rd gear it just free-revved...probably snapped that shaft...what I'm saying is that you can still have OD and lock-up BUT only OD will be run off of that little puny inner input shaft with a Lentech...you can shift to 3rd confidently...and no, you shouldn't need OD on the strip unless you're running 4.88's...lol.
The AOD has the capability of withstanding a brutal ammount of horsepower, if you want to spend a brutal amount of money. A good AOD will need a 1 piece input shaft, with a coropsonding 1 piece input shaft compliant converter, if the input shaft broke your converter is most likely junk as well as most of the parts in your tranny, if you really have 750 hp you just found the weak link in your combination, the AOD only holds 400hp with a 2 piece input shaft period, and that is the small"pencil" shaft that all power from 3rd and 4th go through. After fragging 2 ultra expensive AOD's myself and realizing that I could buy a truckload of c-4's for that price I switched to the C-4. I am definately not saying switch to a C-4 but it is an option. Weigh your options cause A C-4 has no overdrive and those weekend trips net 10-12 MPG at 3300 RPM on the highway. Another cost effective alternative is a Tremec TKO, If you do not bracket race and you want to scare the outta anyone in the passenger seat switch to a tremec. Hope I provided some food for thought.
i'd say turbocoupe5.0 is right, you probly broke that shaft. whenever you bring in the transmission, talk to him and see if you can put in 4R75W internals. i dont know how much different they are, but if the 03 Mach 1s and new F150s got it while the GT still had the 4R70W, then they should be stronger, im guessing. i know they took out the 1-2 accumulator and replaced it with a rubber ball in the valve body, thats the major difference, but for a 3V motor to be on it, its gotta have some more stregnth.
Lightningbird: I did consider a c-4 but from what I read they get pretty pricey too if you want them to handle any power. I have no idea how much HP the car has cuz its never running long enough to dyno it, what c-4 do you have and how much hp is it holding up too?
Trick Flow 347: I got my C-4 from TCI, it is the full race version w/ manual valve body and pan fill case. I just used a xmember from a T-5 mustang and it bolted right in, even the shifter can be modified to work. I think my total package was 1200 or so, that was with a converter, bellhousing, tranny, aftermarket dipstick and tube. I have no idea how much hp I am making but the car is down into the high 10's now, 10.94 @115, 1.51 60 foot times and the tranny still works has had no problems. It is supposed to handle 700 hp and has aftermarket planetary (which is the weak link in the C-4). I am sure that it will handle 100 more hp no problem. I cannot have more than 500 hp cause the 5.0 block will give up at 600. If I was to do it all over again I would go with the PA Performance C-4 cause it is about the same price and looks beefier. An added bonus is you will loose like 50 lbs off of the car cause the AOD is so much heavier.
Which ever trans you run, just make sure you have a LARGE trans cooler.
If you decide to go with a Lentech buy it from a dealer in the USA or Customs will get you for even more money. My buddy ordered a shaft from them and the shipping and customs were like an extra $55 and that is on a small box.
Good luck.
I was looking a the PA Performance c4s...the super comp one!:giggle: overkill maybe... I guess thats why it was getting pricey for me! Can you tell Im getting paranoid or what! The only reason I want a lentech is to have an automatic Im not afraid to break every time I take the car out. I really want to stay automatic..TCI rates there AOD @ 450hp too, why would the c4 hold up better? I wonder if my trans guy just screwed up...
I cant get my tranny out till sunday to see what happened to it.
lightningbird, did you need a new flywheel?
TF 347, the flexplate is the same, you will need different bolts for the tranny and bellhousing, I bought a shifter but it was not really needed unless you want to be NHRA legal. I was bracket racing every weekend so I changed the shifter. The TCI AOD will only hold 450 hp cause it is still a lockup converter. When the AOD shifts into 3rd the "pencil shaft" that is the high and OD input shaft locks the torque converter to the input shaft eliminating slippage by the converter, sucks for performance great for gas milage. Now there are simple fixes to this, one option is a 1 piece input shaft that can be ordered from lentech and installed by your tranny guy. You will need a converter that is for your 1 piece input shaft as well, It will no longer lock up either. No problem if you want to put that power to the ground, cause you will not need a trunk full of clutches and bands for that wimpy stock AOD. What you need to make that performance motor work is a performance tranny, either way you will have to give up something (c4= No OD, AOD= Lightweight wallet) That is why I went with the C-4, I can buy 2 of those trannys for the price of 1 lentech, If i cared about gas milage the car would be a honda and I would be jaming to the latest techno track while thinking a fart pipe would be cool. Hell no, when I get cut I bleed american red, white and blue. Cars need brutal face distorting torque and nitrous, broken parts are sacrafices to the god of speed and you and I both are the priests of that religion.
HELL YEAH MAN YOU SAID IT
:iagree: I have 42lb injectors...what gas mileage, I burn 2 gallons just getting the car ready to leave the driveway! :D Ive got a NX kit I havent been able to use yet too!:giggle:
lentechs have a lifetime warrenty so you should only need to buy one!;) I just need to decide between auto or manual....
Yes my trans is a NEVER apart '89 Super Coupe AOD. I bought it with 40K, still had the factory cherry bomb rolling around in the pan. Only mods are a Trans Go shift kit and the hardened inner shaft I already mentioned. I doubt I'd trust one these days, as you're not likely to find a low milage unit. Its up to approx 75/80K and is still shifting decent, although not as hard as when I first installed the kit... I'll need to have it rebuilt before the 347 goes in.
Heck, I still have the stock shaft, but I don't throw giggle gas at my car though....Tom has more balls than I do.
The only difference between a 4R70W, and a 4R75W is 50 ft lb of torque rating, a different style of apply components for the intermediate clutches (the ones directly behind the pump), and an extra turbine speed sensor towards the front of the trans. The 1-2 accumulator is still there.
Mine broke first time at the track on a shakedown run... No Juice... Had the B&M 2000 stall and street tires... Blotched the first run, only went 14.4(eased it out the hole with a 2.4 60ft). Next run with a fair 60ft(2.15) it snapped the inner on the 2-3 shift, should have gone a 13.8 or so(still went 14.74 with only two gears). Was running 19lb inj, stock 55mm M/A meter and a stock 5.0 stang exaust system.
Oh..it was special! we got the trans down and the torque convertor was stuck in place, spining it made a sound like a skweeky belt, after a little tug of war with the tranny it came off with the 3rd imput shaft still inside it, with some chunkys, the 2nd shaft wobels inside the first, and 1st wobels inside the torque convertor and something is clanking around in there. the trans pan had some chunkys and was full of friction material, now the first time I took it down it was too (w/o the chunks;) )but the tranny guy said it wasent worn so I passed it off like it needed to break in or something, but I dont think it should have that much in the pan after so little use this time. Oh it was also suposed to have a hardened imput shaft too. So I guess no matter what trans i go with I need a new torque convertor anyways...
Oh yea... you have some new plans? I suggest you upgrade your tranny better than a rebuild:D And my car seems to be twisted so you might want some mighty sub frames too!:giggle: If I had it to do all over again I would have went with a stroked 351 or a world block, cuz right now I want to upgrade but I dont think I can push too much more hp. I love a good stroker motor it builds Rs quicker than shiznit!
Okay after looking at trannys I have some questions..
I dont see an AOD (besides a lentech) that holds more than 450hp so Im looking at C4s and C6s..what would be the pros/cons between these? Does the C6 hold more power? I saw most of the competition trannys were C6s..
Auto/manual? Youd have to be quick to hit that 1st shift! Probly would want a shift light or something right?
then... the forward or reverse shift patern? Is it just a preference or does it depend on your shifter?
I need a torque convertor that shares the same bolt pattern as my AOD so I dont need a flywheel.
26 or 31 spline? More is better? usually is....I Just want to make a good decision and be happy with the tranny I get.:D I watched some highway races this last saturday, some were lookin for the cougar to be fixed so Im in a hurry now! maybe Win some of my money back!
Stock not much.
well the first question would be, what kinda of gears are you running?
If its a 3.73 or 4.11 it will be hard to hit, but that all depends on how fast you can shift. TC'shiznit it, al though alot slower, with a stick, or so I would imagine.
You also gain hp to the ground if you can get a stick that will handle the power, but then you lose alot of consistancy. Now, you have the gas and clutch to worry about, but it would make it alot more fun to drive IMHO. but clutching in traffic will get to you sooner or later.
Really its up to you.
Tranny Woahs, This is the question that everyone on this post should ask themselves when they build too much hp for the "factory" parts. AOD is an awesome tranny, just expensive, an AODE is another alternative, I believe it is the same length, handles more torque and does not have the "pencil" 3-4 shaft. C-6, hello modifications and welder (the x-member, driveshaft, shifter), Tremec TKO (face it T-5 is worse than the AOD) bangin gears rocks, based on your rear gears(3.73-4.10) I would find the highest first gear available cause shifts come awefully fast when you have 500+ hp. You will most likely never need another tranny if you have a manual, but cluthes are another story. Go with AOD/AODE or a C-4 they are the most cost effective and least amount of time intensive. I believe the AODE takes a computer to run, does anyone know? Maybe it is like a 700R4 or 2004R and you just need a switch. BTW if your input shaft is not broken in 2 then I would say it is hardened. Just your hub on the torque converter is not. I would try another hardened input shaft and a non locking torque converter with furnace brazed fins and roller brarings (precision Industries, TCI, High end B&M) after I cleaned the tranny and see if the AOD still works before spending another dime. After I bought all of the right stuff for my AOD it was the clutches that let go and the case broke not the input shafts. I bet it was the input shaft and it still works fine. BTW do any fwd gears work? if 1&2 work it has got to be the shaft, your shaft was harder than your converter and destroyed (I love using that word) the front lockup hub inside the converter. If you have the tranny apart have your tranny guy install a 1 piece input shaft and buy a lentech or precision converter that will work. I hope this helps.
My 1st and 2nd still worked but not as firm when I got the trans down the torque convertor was stuck in the tranny! We had to get it out by pushing it in and out with the help of a hammer!:shakehead The TC is junk it jingels and clunks not to mention that the input shaft is still stuck in there...:rolleyes:
I couldnt find a clear answer for how to install a c4, so I took my AOD to my tranny guy and he said hes never seen that before!:eek: Anyways hes taking it apart to see if its still good, he said the material in the pan was probly from the torque convertor cuz he runs the same trans on 800hp cars and if everything is still fine on the inside Ill go with a one piece shaft and a non locking convertor.