Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: Fast thunderbird on July 03, 2006, 05:35:25 PM

Title: failed emissions
Post by: Fast thunderbird on July 03, 2006, 05:35:25 PM
hey people, okay i have a 3.8 v6 thunderbird that i took to emssions and i failed for carbon dioxide,, I need it for work and i failed.any body know what to look for? I want to find out maybe whats wrong before i take it to a mechanic cause when you tell the mechanics you failed emissions they rip you off and charge you alot. I asked the guy and he said it could be too much gas passing tru or something how do i check or adjust that? thanks any help would be apreciated
Title: failed emissions
Post by: yellow86coogr on July 03, 2006, 06:27:40 PM
Some shops offer decarboning an Engine. Worked for me a couple times, but if it's something else, it may not take care of it.
Title: failed emissions
Post by: Kitz Kat on July 03, 2006, 06:31:53 PM
any codes
Title: failed emissions
Post by: Kitz Kat on July 03, 2006, 07:00:17 PM
Where you from?
Title: failed emissions
Post by: Haystack on July 03, 2006, 07:12:03 PM
Which engine do you have? What year is the car? there were three diffrent 3.8's thrown into these cars.

First thing, replace spark plugs, wires and regap them. Next would be fuel filter, and maybe even an oil change. Most of the time this will drastically help your problem. Next would be air filter, then if it still dosent pass, ask us whats up.
Title: failed emissions
Post by: Fast thunderbird on July 03, 2006, 08:21:13 PM
hey guys thanks for the fast responses i live in phoenix arizona and its a 89 t-bird. it had a new engine put in like 5 months ago so spark plugs , airfilter ect... is new except the fuel filter.

Also i should of said this but completely forgot, when i drive the car 3 minutes later the engine light comes on. that had happened to me before and i found a plastics hose that had broke so i fixed it and it lasted for a while and just yesterday the check engine light came back on. but when i turn off the car it goes away.

Anybody have any engine pics so i can tell you what hose i replaced i cant explain it its by the trotle. thanks guy please bare with me since i dont knowmuch about cars lol
Title: failed emissions
Post by: Dogcharmer on July 03, 2006, 08:29:16 PM
Basically CO and HC will go up if you're running rich or your cats aren't functioning properly. Running lean would only cause NOX to skyrocket and ignition timing doesnt really affect CO. Your cats are there to burn (reduce) HC and CO. If I had to guess I would probably be looking at buying new oxygen sensors. Also check your TPS voltage. TPS could cause you to go rich if the EEC thinks you're at part throttle when you're really idling. Your cats could just be "worn out" if they've never been replaced- but I wouldn't concider changing them until there's nothing left. Also make sure your "secondary air" system is functioning properly; i.e. smog pump, TAB & TAD solinoids, all the hoses especially the one that goes to the converter.

Hope this helps... Emisions sucks!!!
Title: failed emissions
Post by: Fast thunderbird on July 03, 2006, 08:40:02 PM
hey thanks ill look for those things you said, the oxygen sensors is the one that goes on the exaust system somewhere right? im also gonna see if i can get any codes when the check engine light comes on. thanks for al your help guys:)
Title: failed emissions
Post by: Haystack on July 03, 2006, 08:58:58 PM
Yes those are the o2 sensors. I have never had to replace one to pass emissions. Honestly, I dont think any of mine work. How tough are emissions in AZ anyways?
Title: failed emissions
Post by: Fast thunderbird on July 04, 2006, 12:19:07 AM
im gonna take the o2 sensors off see if they look bad. how od you know if its bad? lol. its gonna be a pain though but its worth a try.
Im not sure how tuff they are here since i never had a car fail emissions but they are alwsy trying to get people here to switch to alternative fuels. And our city violated pollution laws for like 4-5 years straight..... so im guessing they are tough lol.
Title: failed emissions
Post by: DVP on July 04, 2006, 01:12:46 AM
i say get a can of sea foam run it though the car and then run a little more fresh gas out of it and see about it then. that is how i passed. but since you just got a new engine that might not work for you.
Title: failed emissions
Post by: Dogcharmer on July 04, 2006, 01:44:59 AM
Oxygen sensors should be replaced at around 30 to 40K mi. The older they are the less accurate they become. Your air/fuel mixture  is based primarily on the feedback the oxygen sensor sends to the computer. If your mixture is even a little rich you're likely not to pass for HC or CO. There's no way to tell if it's bad just by looking at it.

An oxygen sensor produces its own voltage based on the amount of oxygen in the exhaust. As the sensor ages it produces less voltage which tricks the EEC into thinking the mixture is lean. It will then add more fuel and cause a rich condition. You didn't mention your HC levels but I'd guess they were close to the limit.
Title: failed emissions
Post by: softtouch on July 04, 2006, 01:55:01 PM
Quote from:   i failed for carbon dioxide,[/QUOTE


Are you sure this is the failure? This would mean you don't have enough CO2. There is a minimum amount of it required.
Plug the exhaust while it's running, see if it builds up pressure, if not you have a leak in the exhaust system.
Title: failed emissions
Post by: Masejoer on July 04, 2006, 02:52:03 PM
Quote from: Dogcharmer
Oxygen sensors should be replaced at around 30 to 40K mi.


Plus, the more often they're replaced, the easier they will be to get out.

Mine are STILL stuck in my exhaust manifold after trying everything to break them free. Probably have to replace the entire exhaust manifold. Now the new sensors are just sitting in a drawer.
Title: failed emissions
Post by: softtouch on July 04, 2006, 03:59:29 PM
Quote from: softtouch
Are you sure this is the failure? This would mean you don't have enough CO2. There is a minimum amount of it required.
Plug the exhaust while it's running, see if it builds up pressure, if not you have a leak in the exhaust system.


After looking at my old emissions forms it looks like Maryland stopped the minimium amount of CO2 requirement in the early 90's.

Some states are limiting "greenhouse gasses" which include CO2.
So basicly I don't know what I'm talking about.

In England they tax you based on how much CO2 you put out.

I don't understand how you can reduce CO2 output other than reducing the amount of fuel you use.
Title: failed emissions
Post by: Fast thunderbird on July 04, 2006, 05:00:41 PM
Yeah thats what the guy told me he said it looks like you dint pass for carbon dioxide, so then i went into the little office and the guy told me its running rich or theres too much gas passing tru, It does seem to waste more gas for some reason... You guys think maybe they dint adjust the fuel injectors right when they put them in? ive been pretty busy so i havent tried anything yet but today is my day off so ill try to check some stuff out, thanks
Title: failed emissions
Post by: Fast thunderbird on July 04, 2006, 05:02:57 PM
Oh And Happy 4th Of July everyone:) Be Safe
Title: failed emissions
Post by: CougarSE on July 04, 2006, 06:28:11 PM
Quote from: Fast thunderbird
Yeah thats what the guy told me he said it looks like you dint pass for carbon dioxide, so then i went into the little office and the guy told me its running rich or theres too much gas passing tru, It does seem to waste more gas for some reason... You guys think maybe they dint adjust the fuel injectors right when they put them in? ive been pretty busy so i havent tried anything yet but today is my day off so ill try to check some stuff out, thanks

 
Have you pulled codes?
Title: failed emissions
Post by: CougarSE on July 04, 2006, 06:29:55 PM
Quote from: CougarSE
Have you pulled codes?

 
Wow.... I feal like I'm back on TRS... I must have asked for codes ten times in the past couple of weeks...
Title: failed emissions
Post by: Fast thunderbird on July 04, 2006, 07:17:08 PM
no i havent i took it to auto zone and it turns out they only check cars  1996 and up, so i gotta take it somewhere else ill let you guys now though.
Title: failed emissions
Post by: 5.0willgo on July 05, 2006, 11:59:13 AM
Question, how did you go about replacing the engine?

If a shop did it with a rebuilt unit, there should be some kind of warrenty. This warrenty not only usually applies to the actual engine, but the installation by that shop. You should be able to take it back to them with your failure form and they should make the neceassary repairs.

As far as your check engine light coming on and turning off, it sounds to me that there is a sensor or hose that is disconnecting which is throwing the code and tripping the light. If that is the case, most likely it's a result of something the shop did or didn't do when installing the engine. I've seen this quite a bit from a pinched vacuum hose or a loose connector.

If it is a used engine that you had someone just throw in there though, you're on your own.
Title: failed emissions
Post by: Haystack on July 05, 2006, 01:59:52 PM
Yeah, if its a new engine, you shouldn't have any problem passing at all.
Title: failed emissions
Post by: Fast thunderbird on July 10, 2006, 11:49:06 PM
UPDATE: well it turns out it was the freaking catalyc converters lol. the shop replaced those and it passed! The car seems to drive even better too.:) thanks for your guys advice.

I still have the check engine light coming on and off as i drive though i think its a hose off/or loose, what should i look for? Car drives good and everything but i get annoyed by that check engine light. Also the warranty was over on the engine so i couldnt take it back there....
Title: failed emissions
Post by: Fast thunderbird on July 13, 2006, 12:33:32 AM
never mind there was a sensor that wasnt plug right NO MORE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT!:) Cars runs so smooth and fast i love it:)