ok i have been doing this and that with my bird for 2 years now and im sick of it i drive the car maybe 50 miles a month so im not worried about the gas that efi will save me, and i like the clean engine bay of a carburetor car anyways. but my question is that i was reading that aftermarket carbs wont work with a ford aod tranny is this true and why?
The AOD has the throttle valve cable attached at the throttle body. You can make it work with a carb though. Here's some articles.
http://www.shockley.net/Holley-AOD.asp
http://www.jason.fletcher.net/tech/efi-carb/efi-carb.htm
I have also been thinking about doing this swap, but everyone I talk to always say that I'm crazy for wanting to. I do really want the clean engine bay look though.
To each his own, but you'll have to pry my EFI from my cold dead fingers...
I didn't touch a FI engine till I was 43(1993, 16 years ago), never goin' back to a carb... OK there is a small lie in that statement, I ran a diesel Olds (direct fuel injection) from '88-'93...
If something isnt set right the EFI doesnt save you gas. I burnt almost half a tank to go 84 miles. Now tell me its cheaper then a carb. Honestly though I know once it's all worked out right it'll do just fine.
I would have to agree that I wouldnt trade it for anything either. The ECU from what Ive understood adjusts stuff as you change things. Since appearently I suck at fine tuning things, this is perfect for me. :D
Actually there are three lies in that statement...
Another is the old Cobra Jet is carbed and will remain so... anybody see the other one???
1993 to 2006 is only 13 years?
Well mine is nickel and diming me to death because it as never ran right sense I started this whole project 2 years ago. im just to the point where i dont know if its not running right because of the efi or something is wrong with my setup for my cam and timing or something else. and at the start of this whole thing i wanted to go carbed but i was talked out of it because of the gas mileage efi would save me but i have only drove the car maybe 2000 miles in the 2 years i have had it. and im getting 10 miles a gallon right now.
your fingers arent cold and dead? well they may be cold :dunno:
Bingo.... Guess I couldn't add when I posted ...
Sorry for getting off topic...
Whats your setup and we'll talk about it... No more than you drive it a carb may be the right choice for you, but if you have other issues you're still chasing snakes.
i took the techs of a mustang cam and got a cam with a lil more lift and duration. rebuilt mustang heads tho there was my first problem i put them in with stock pushrods and it sounded like a sewing michine so i took them out and found my pushrods were to short. by like a 1/4 i believe (its been a year) put them on i have a typhoon EFI Intake from professional products with a 65mm throttle body and of course the 19lbs injectors. my exhaust is 2 shorty headers with true duals. im running speed density, also the mustang computer
one of my problems is i got most of the parts off ebay so i dont know if what i got is right. the computer looked like somone took it apart and yea i dont know i never really trusted it from the start.
my problems are if i have it idleing at 600 rpm it will run for about 2-4 mins trying not to die before it does. it will stay running at 1k rpms idleing but then if you stand behind it you will just feel like you took a gas bath and you will stink. there is no low end power what so ever, tho if i get it out of first gear it runs fine just smells like gas where ever i go.
talk to a mechanic he got in it and i started it up first thing he said is this efi i was like yea he goes theres no way in hell this car should sound like this. my car shakes like its got a really extream cam in it and is carbed.
if you could help plz. also i dont mind if it goes off topic as long as it comes back every now and then
as far as carbs i'm with Tom on this one..
i have had meny carb motors back in the day.. and i would never go back to a carb..the only way i would go back to a carb would be a N/A track only car.. or a twin screw dual quad show car setup..
i have a few questions
you said you have pushrod problems?
ok first what engine block are you useing? ie roller or non roller?
two what cam? ie part number and is it a 302 cam or a 351W/HO302 cam
three what ecm are you useing mass air or speed density?
now other things like stock heads or aftermarket heads?
now on another note a rich condition can be caused by O2's,air charge temp sensor,mass air sensor.. and map sensor on speed density systems.. mass air systems on fords don't use a map.they use a BAP! if you did convert to mass air disconect the vacuum line to map and plug the hose.. but leave the wiring harness to the map conected..
Nick
Check your codes too. EFI should spell out what you need.
You say its a Speed Densety EEC, they will NOT work with much more than the stock HO cam... Low vaccum will cause a rich, surging idle condition... Do you have any idea how much vaccum the engine is making? A SD EEC won't idle without surging on less than approx 16" of manifold vac... If its borderline you may be able to increase the idle to 800/900 rpm to bring the vac up a bit...
Whats the three digit code on the computer???
wow so a motor not making enough vacuum makes it rich? not to hijack the thread here but Im running rich as well and noticed I dont have much vacuum in my brake booster
its the stock block with rollers. i got the cam 2 years ago its a comp cam and thats all i remember its speed density, with stock heads
i was wondering about this i dont even know how to check to see how much vacuum im getting. tho it runs rich all the time. so if im not getting enough vac would it still run rich when im at higher rpms like 2k? its a VM1 computer you said that it may need the ground ran to the 46 pin i believe tho i did that and didnt do anything.
i just found my dads code thing today so im going to get the codes monday for sure.
hijack this i dont care maybe it will help me out in the end
In a SD system the MAP sensor is "KING", and rules with a iron fist...
Translated the SD system relies on input to the EEC from the MAP sensor for fuel richness. With low vac, basically the MAP is telling the EEC the engine is in acceleration mode so it richens the mixture...
If you don't have a vaccum gage, go to the auto parts store and get one(they ain't expendive, and will include directions). Basically your just ' in the wind till you know how much manifold vaccum the engine has... Usually it's not noticable at higher RPMs but again unless you know for sure you're shootin in the dark..
If the vac is over 17" idling you have other problems... My Small Trick Flow cam idles at approx 11" vac, no way I could use a SD system.
ok done at 600 rpms its 6 idling...lol at 1200 idling its 11 at 2000 (my foot is on the gas) its 16 does this sound right i couldnt run it at 600 rpms for long so it was a lil cooler then the other ones becuase everytime i do i just foul out the spark plugs.
and i tested off the upper manifold. tho i tryed off the lower one too and it ran about the same 6-7 at 600 didnt do it at the other rpms
With those vac readings you either have a hellva vac leak, or that is one rumpty rump cam... Does it have a fairly rough(lopey)idle??? Any idea of the specs @ .050" lift???
At the moment looks like you either need to go to a mass air setup or get that carb you been thinking about... The cost will probably be similar for both. Carb, intake , dist and fuel system mods. or a EEC, MAF(with intake air tube), and a little rewiring...
or, fix the leak or check your to make sure your cam isn't degree'd wrong or that your timing isn't comepletely borked.
something is deffinately not right. also, any mechanic that didn't check the vacum when it sounded like that is not one I would go to again.
yes it has a lopey idle and i dont think the lift was .50 but it may have been close i dont remember like i said
the mechanic just listened to it and didnt really look at it at all or care to he just told me the timing was off... and yea i dont think ill be asking him for help for a while (only problem he is my girls dad so yea....)
ok now 2 problems im having with going carbed is can i make my fuel pump work and how and also i understand i have to hook up the carb different for aod but how shiznitty is that going to be.
now if i go maf will it work becuase i thought even that as limits.
this weekend ill see if i can find any vac leaks i hope i can and clear this up.
The actual lift ain't the real important part... The duration @.050 lift is whats important as is the lobe seperation...
Unless its a really wild cam, a mass air setup should run it with minimal problems... Driveability wise mine ain't perfect, but it's taken me to Carlisle Five times(700-900 mile total trips). ... Also went to Cat Jam in '02 and almost on to Indiana for 1500+mi trip... On the highway it gets anywhere from 22-26mpg, depending on how hard I run it..
this is the parts im looking at does this look right also i really appreciate all the help
6A Ignition Control
Part Number # 121-6200
$148.99 $148.99
High Performance HEI Distributor
# Ford 260, 289, 302 & 305 5.0 Engines1962-83
# Red Cap
Part Number # 778-66969R
$186.99 $186.99
600 cfm Electric Choke; Remanufactured 350-1400
Part Number # 350-9900
$229.99 $229.99
# Performer 289 Intake Manifold SB-Ford 260-289-302ci
# 4-bbl Square-Bore Carb (non-EGR)
# Idle-5500 rpm
50-state legal
Part Number # 350-2121
$142.99 $142.99
Ford 302 Throttle Cable Plate Kit
Part Number # 350-1490
$12.99 $12.99
Update
Subtotal: $721.95
this is just to see what i need
You're going to have to either change fuel pumps or put a hell of a pressure regulator on it as well. the fuel pump in our cars runs somewheres around 40 PSI or higher if I remember right. and carbs need like 4 to 9 PSI if I remember correctly. Also you may have to do something about the ends of the fuel lines to get them to connect to the carb. not sure what carb youre using if its an edelbrock they may have some kind of thing for that already same as with holley.
As for the AOD tranny all you should need is a spot to hook it to on the carb if you have a cable you'll need a cable bracket to hold the end and possibly a ball end on the trottle plate of the carb. if you dont have a cable just get a rod off another AOD and hook it to the carb the same way it hooks to the TB of a CFI setup.
basically you have most of what you need but with your current fuel system you're going to run a hell of a lot richer then what you already are.
well i think i found my vaccum leak my pcv valve going to my valve covers is leaking when i push on it at 900 rpms it goes from 9 psi to 13-14 psi vacuum and i can hear it just sucking air so im going to fix that this weekend with that order one of these but i have no clue what one will be right for my car
http://www.mass-air.com/Products.htm#Car%20Mass-Air%20Kits
Part Number CK-8611-x, basic kit with 55mm 19 lb stock sensor
Part Number CK-8612-x, basic kit with 73mm C & L Meter
Part Number CK-8613-x, basic kit with 76mm C & L Meter
Part Number CK-8614-x, basic kit with 80mm C & L Meter
i was thinking the 73mm would be right am i right?
are this a good kit i figured that if its linked from cool cats it is but just making sure
thanks again for everything