I have inherited a motor i built for a buddy of mine
d3 or d4 casting 302 block
c6 289 heads
studed heads
1.4 something inch intake valves
1.9 something inch exhaust valves
1.6 roller rockers
cam lift is .496intake and .520exhaust
cam duration is 290intake and 300exhaust
forged 40 over pistons
decked block
shaved heads @ .020
high volume oil pump
high volume fuel pump
some sort of bad ass springs, not sure what brand
600 something eldebrock carb (use to have a holly 750 double pumper)
chrome summit add ons and air cleaner/valve covers
high end head gaskets from what i remember
pos duraspark :yuck: but oh well
new gear set and chain
found the stroker kit for it
hope i can figure out a way to put injectors on the intake
hope i can convert to SEFI
shopping for a DIS for it
I wont put this in for the following reasons,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
no way in hell i would put this load on my old ass 308 rear or my tranny , my front end springs, lack of sub frame connectors, old stock bushings ect ect. Im just not ready to install this yet and to be honest, i want to put a T5 in as well and have located.
Now, the AOD to T5 (preferably from a 4cyl due to 1st and 2nd being better all around from the other T5) swap poses a whole host of shopping to do and you all know what that is.
Im just not ready yet and as the next few week chug along im going on a collecting spree which , if im lucky , will include an 84 dash swap as well into my 87. I just love the older dash look and id like to extend the console all the way to the back and install buckets in the rear as well.
I cant just slap this motor in and feel good about the rest of the mechanical stuff so it will sit.
however,,,,,,,, what i will do in the meantime to get some enjoyment and time with my coug is swap in the 4.2L crank/rods and pistons (which i have now). I want to do this and have for some time. It will give me a chance to have something a little off the wall and different. I think in one way that is is a waste of time but in another, its my car, my time and of course my choice but,,, id still like to get that kit put in and see how good the old 3.8 block handles it. The machine shop in princeton wva told me he could make my heads way better then they are which is good and of course common sense.
I Asked if he could use my crank journal caps and machine them out of new metal and leave the ears long enough so that all caps will end up being 4 bolt. He looked at a block he had down there and said there was plenty of room to do that and drill the two extra holes for bolts so i guess ill end up with a 4bolt main 3.8 with a stroker kit and probably larger valves.
All of this would make much more sense if i had the 88 engine already in for a couple of mechanical reasons.
with all of this said,, im tickled that i have my buddies engine but im not actually ready and dont wanna half ass it, however, i do get a little more of a thrill doing something different, i know for a fact i can put the v8 in and it would also be a smart move to get a stroker kit for it prior to installation.
For the moment, ill do the 4.2 and i might have a chance to experience that for a while.
yeah buddy a 3.8l stroker
ill be watching this one man....
Yeah lemme know how it goes as well, and welcome back.
Are you going to convert over to a 88 type engine, or drop a 88 in? I know how much you love the cfi systems ;
)
ill have to stick with my 87 block.
The reason why i am in a situation where i have to do something is because i made a serious mistake when i did my rebuild a while back.
anyone here with engine experience feel free to jump in and add your two cents worth on my theory on "What went wrong"
Here is the quick run down.........
Last spring 05 i noticed i had a flickering oil light when soon went to continuous. now a days upon startup i have about 40psi of oil pres but it quickly drops to about 20 or so and remains there. the presure does not come up much at all when throttle is applied either.
When i did my rebuild, i noticed my crank had no groves or any signs of unusual wear. I noted the wear on the old bearings and found the wear pattern was consistant on the crank bearings. The bearings were worn on the ends but not in the middle. I wondered about this back then but after i mic'd out the crank and got a stock set of bearings , i found my oil clearance to be consistant at .0025 (estimating the 10thousanth didgit). I found that using my plasti guage confirmed as well.
If i had it to do over again,, i would have taken a couple more readings on the crank by positioning another piece of plasti guage on the crank but off to the sides instead of the top. What i mean is the plasti guage reading i was getting was making contact on the center of the main bear cap. If i had layed another new piece off to the side,, i would have noticed a tighter gap.
Long story short,, due to the fact that i had about 320k on the engine when i first rebuilt it,, i learned the hard way how the journals of the engine crank and rods can become sort of "egged" out or out of round ***due to stretching*** caused by millions of downard force explosions on each piston. Alternating the location of the plasti guage is something i did not do. I did take an x y and z radial measurement of the crank and rod journals and i guess i missed something becasuse everthing looked fine then. The did not match perfect but were not off enough to get my attention. I still have my notes where i added up all three radial locations and came up with the average differences. I think there was enough out of roundness to effect the new std bearings i installed in a negative way.
so,, this is where i am today,, but the above is only my "THEORY" , i will know more when the oil pan comes off.
I expect to find the same wear pattern as before and if so, i need the rods and block line oored or broached. If i dont find an oddity in the bearings,,, ill park the coug,, shiznit can the motor and start the swap now with the v8.
here is my 162 dollar donor for the stroker project.
curiosity has got me here because i notice this 4.2 has a DIS system. Technically speaking, can anyone give me some direction on how to bring this portion into my 3.8 as well? I would love to delete the dizzy and add the coil packs. As you can see its a compelete motor with all the wing dings.
Pretty interesting upper intake for you V6'ers. It has and odd upper intake as i have never seen a 4.2 until i got this motor. sorry for not posting pics earlier, distractions around the house and such.
the headers flow nicer than my stock ones as in the way they are made so they might go on as well or ill get those v6 mustang headers i saw in today,, they are freebee's:D
Im still on the search for a supercharger.. seems hard to find.
I was dissappointed ,,, i heard the 4.2 had roller rockers and as you can see, they dont. A very clean inside from what i can see so far, the oil was fresh, the coolant was green, the crank turned and the electronic tranny red fluid with no burnt smells.
The side window on the van said,, "motor good, transmission defective"
Is it just me or does the intake look useable on the 88 and up v6's?,,, im sure the bolt pattern on the intake to heads are the same so it would make a nice mod for the 88 and up 232.
I guess im just curios to see if anyone here had to install a dis system on thier fox,, how would you go about doing it? It cant be all that complicated,, that one guy called 10secondthunderbird did it with a kit from painless wiring. Some of you may remember him and is twin supercharger FI V8 in a silver tbird which i still have a pic of.
hey I have a newer super charger off of a buick i would practicly give away. its the m62 I think instead of a m90 like the supercoupes, but the engine was a 3.8....
leme know how much:D
Is the 4.2 DIS or EDIS? (does it have the 36-1) trigger wheel, or something else?
DIS is pretty easy to convert to from TFI. Here's a diagram for reference HERE (http://www.merkurxr4ti.com/ref/dpdis_wiring_mods.PDF). It's for a 2.3T, but you get the idea. The inputs/outputs are the same. EDIS is a different beast and can be done, but will require a bit more in-depth research on the wiring.
The biggest hurdle if it's DIS is mounting the crank sensor. On the 2.3T in my Ranger I had to drill/tap the front of the block....carefully.
dis or EDIS,, what are the visual differences?
I have a crank sensor and i assume the cam sensor is where the dizzy should be mounted.
heads are off the engine, cylinders look clean and cross hatches are still visible.
Thank you chuck for the diagram, makes sense to me. Is the DIS module illustrated a seperate part from the coil pack?
Yes the DIS module is like the TFI.
Not sure what year your engine is. The EDIS uses a toothed trigger wheel at the crank. The DIS trigger wheel is different.
I'll shoot some pics for you and post them up in the sig test place,jcass.
Chuck,,
the casting on the heads are F6,,, engine is a 97 windstar van,,
so the dis swap is possible with that drawing? is the DIS MODULE in the diagram the coil pack?
I would think a '97 would be EDIS.
Any pics of the crank pulley?
No crank pully , thats the one part i did not get on the engine.
need a pic of the coil pack , cam and crank sensor?
the 4.2 is all apart , i verified the casting on the crank (RF-F65E-AC) was in fact a 4.2 crank.
The bearings were shot and spun and it looks like the machine shop will have to take off more than i wanted. The crank seems to be steel from what i can see or its highly polished. either way it feels much lighter than my 3.8 crank.
a couple issues i need someone to comment on,,,,,,,,,,,
1 I found that i have roller lifters but the cam is lobed,, is this the correct cam? I dont think it is but i could be wrong. it does not look like a roller cam, it looks like a hyd lifter cam with lobes like i have now in the 3.8.
2 the balance issue,, should i use my 4.2 flywheel with the 4.2 crank? My old 3.8 is external balance and the 4.2 donor is internal. Can anyone comment on the balance issue here?
3 the pistons, rods and caps have no ford markings or castings on them,, this does not seem normal. the oil pan has been off as well as the pass head and a gasket installed. I see someone forgot to put the coolant passage alignment tube back in on one side and im sure this didnt make a good seat for the head gasket work. ALso the oil pan has been off and reinstalled.
4 some of the bearings under or overlapped as they spun and sort of welded themselves to a couple rods. all main and rods were spun except for the two middle mains. the oil did look fine in the JY but the grey muck was full of bearing grit. Im sure the whole block is contaminated. Good thing all i want is the rods/crank/pistons
5 will i need the windage tray or not,,i dont think i do
6 how would the machine shop go about flushing out the crank oil passages?
The split port intakes will not bolt up to single port heads.
I take it that you can only install DIS on non-SEFI TFI motors? Does the DIS module take the CID input and PIP input and give a "modified" PIP output to the EEC? All DIS EECs have a CID input so the EEC can know where #1 is w/o the narrow vaned PIP signal.
I believe you must have an EEC that is set up for EDIS to run EDIS. The EDIS needs a SAW input that only an EDIS EEC can provide.
Right, the EDIS requires a different ECU and uses the PIP/SAW instead of the PIP/SPOUT.
The DIS and TFI PIP/SPOUT are the same with the DIS using the crank sensor to locate the #1.
With the appropriate crank trigger/sensor, you can swap the TFI for the DIS. Did the TFI to DIS swap on the 2.3T motor that went into my Ranger a couple years ago.
I want to run EDIS on the X-Flow.
Anyway, I'm guessing that motor you have was EDIS due to it's age., but I could be wrong.
Was your 2.3T batch fire or sequential?
The 2.3T's batch fire 2 injectors at a time.
EDIT that...now I don't remember. It's batch fire though....
Ok, that is what I thought. Hmm, time for DIS on my CFI 3.8 ;)
If only it worked on sequential injection. :(
'88 3.8s are batch fire, same as the 2.3...
Now wheather this makes any difference to the discussion I don't know, I kinda breezed through it...:D
JCass,
Man, this sounds like a fun project!
Chris
Well,, the good news,,
IT all bolts together incase anyone ever runs into a 4.2L. Rods, pistons and crank.
Bad News,,,,
My JY doner is going to over reach the bounds of common sense with all the machine work needed. Every single bearing was spun on the rods/crank. The crank did not spin the two middle ones with the girdles. It even spun the two center cam bearings. The whole block was contaminated and the crank had bearing parts up inside it. A couple rods have bearings welded to them as well as the sides. The machine shop says its probably gonna need each rod cleaned up to the point were it wont last too long due to excess side play. On top of all that, the crank would need to be turned to a point that made me wonder just what the hell im doing.
Its not worth it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so...........
I move on to the 306 install :D its not a total loss,,,just a waste of money and time but oh well.
guess you know why it was in the junk yard. sucks man. i was hoping to see some good numbers on this and see what kinda street manners it would have.
If anyone out there is interested,, i have all the parts to do this and just be advised the crank needs machine work but if you dont mind atleast 30 over,, then its yours. The rods good but id suggest getting them broached. the pistons are all good and the block bores still had cross hatch markings.
STEEL crank/rods/pistons,,, up for grabs. plan on a couple hundred bux for work done and that would be cheap.
It happens that the 64mm throttle body would be nice to ,, i had a plan for that but i like the windsor duel TB for a later project.
Far more expensive would be the ablity to secure a donor 4.2. A crank alone without core is nearly 350 bux.
interesting thing i found out,, speaking of 4.2L. The 1982 mustang had an optional 4.2L available.
These parts are free, you pay shipping. I wanna see this happen to someones 3.8, id prefer a CFI to get woke up but thats up to what you have already.
the parts are still salvageable, ive probably just made it seem worse than what it really is.
Chirs,,,
this would be a nice addition to all the top end work you have done already.
That would be the shiznitty 4.2L V8 i've got in my tbirds
then you would be short two cylinders if you think its a v8 project,:rollin:
To all,
The 4.2 rods can not be broached. The caps are broken off during manufacturing and each cap matches only one rod. There is no way to duplicate the break and still be able to broach. In otherwords, if the bearings are spun, best case is to broach them and oversize the rod bearings.