I'll try not to tell a long story with this one.
The '86 T-bird (3.8) is having some issues preventing my aunt from driving it to work. Every time she does, about a 6 mile round trip, it loses enough coolant to expose the top of the automatic transmission cooler inside the radiator's tank. I've been trying to figure out what's going on. Here's what I know/have done so far:
- Thermostat (195, I think) was replaced about a year ago.
- Clutch fan was put in it, from the '88 T-bird. No apparent problems.
- Main radiator hoses were replaced a few weeks ago, system was flushed and refilled w/ new coolant and distilled water.
- Radiator cap was replaced at the same time w/ a brand new lever-cap.
- All hose clamps I could find have been given a re-tightening.
- Warmed it up and did the heater core test, did not smell coolant inside the car.
- Cooling system usually holds pressure pretty well. Friend of mine squeezed the hoses on it after running it up to operating temperature and shutting it off for awhile.. held pressure for some time.
- No leaks visible or audible anywhere, except one time I thought the back of the head on the driver's side looked wet and didn't look just oily. Hasn't looked that way since. Other exception as noted next:
- Last time she drove it, I happened to catch the car soon after she got back, and the overflow tank was full and coolant was sprayed all over the area around the overflow tank's little vent hole.
- Small amount of white smoke on every startup.. but of all the times I've started it, stabbed the pedal, etc.. it has only let out one small puff of white smoke the whole time.
Am I overlooking something stupid here? Or is it what I sorta fear it is? (head gasket going) I say "sorta fear" because if it DOES go, I'll just pull the 3.8 out of there and put something else in its place.. so I'm not terribly upset at the thought of the 3.8s days being numbered. Hell, I think I'm more annoyed that the 95A alt I put on it will be wasted.. :p
Given the symptoms you describe, my first though is of a blown heat gasket. The overflowing catch-can suggests that something is pressurizing the cooling system.
What happens if you remove the radiator cap and let the car warm up?
It would seem that your thermostat took a dump and is not opening properly or at all. Either that or you have a clog in the cooling system somewhere. None of that Stop Leak stuff has been used on this radiator or heater core has it? The HG is a possibilty....
Usually it just pukes out coolant slowly but surely until it warms up.
Is it overheating?
Not that I know of, on the stop-leak.
I also don't recall seeing anything unusual when looking into the radiator tank with the cap open. I know on my Lincoln, it had tons of corrosion built up around the individual tube outlets. None of that on the T-bird, though.
I tried fast-warming it one time by holding it around fast idle or a little faster until it hit operating temperature. It crept up to about 150, sped up towards 190-ish, and then at around 200 it fell back to operating temperature.
Not that I have been aware of. It runs between 190 and 210 for however long I test it, once it's warmed up. I can fill it up again and test it again, if needed.
Pretty much rules out the Stat. When exactly did this start? Could even be a small hole in one of your coolant lines sucking air in (yes, I've seen this happen, quite rare I would assume though)
Well, it's been going on for some time now.. couple months at least.. but she has mostly stopped driving the car and I've had to let it sit. My health hasn't been so great lately.. frequent dizzy spells make me wary of going out there for long when I'm often completely alone and could end up passed out in a fire ant pile for awhile.. but now that I've been to a doctor and got on some blood pressure medication that doesn't seem to make it any worse, I'm looking into it some more. So in actual days of use, I'd say it's happened at least a dozen times now.. with the initial refills, testing of a couple different radiator caps, (one used one I had laying around, then one new) flush and fill and hose/clamp replacement and clamp tightening, heater core check, etc.
Note that it actually held water for one or two tests, a few days ago.. my aunt took it out again to work, and when she brought it back it was the same old problem. She's a rather timid driver, so I doubt she's going out and trying to fry the tires off it every chance she gets or just generally driving it hard.. and like I said, hers is about a 3 mile trip one-way to work. If she ever takes it shopping or to the bank or whatever, it's all stuff that's between work and home.
Have you warmed it up w/o the radiator cap on? Suck out some of the fluid before you crank it so it doesn't overflow.
This should give you some idea of what is going on. You might try driving around the block sans cap to see what happens.
I'll try that in a few minutes.
Alright.. didn't even get all the way to warm. Even at 120 degrees, it starts puking coolant. Mind you, when I started it up, the coolant level was below the top of the AT cooler core. What coolant is in there became very cloudy, too.. although I suppose that could just be the water pump stirring it up and such. (this is new coolant)
If you think I should continue, I can.. but I'll need to pick up another bottle of anti-freeze soon. Down to my last one, and my truck also drinks a little coolant now and again and needs a supply handy.
Just a thought but when the head gasket started leaking on the motor in my car you could find antifreeze in the engine oil. If it isn't smoking alot when running I would think that rules out the option that it's going into the cylinder alot. In my experience with them which isn't much, If the coolant isn't going into the cylinder when it leaks there's only one other place it goes. As far as anything else Im stumped if it isn't the HG or a leak.
I haven't checked the oil this week, but every other time I've checked it while having this problem, the oil has not been milky or bubbly or anything like that.
I should've mentioned this in the original post.
Well that rules out that its going into the oil then mine was left setting for a few months before I picked it up from the lady and I checked the oil before starting it and the dipstick was actually rusted. I would think a leak that bad would be noticable though
With the amount of coolant I've gone through so far, you'd think it would be pouring out the dipstick tube by now if it were all going into the oil pan.
Oh hey I just thought of something that happened to me. Ive actually had something similar to that happen but they were like 4 days apart so I think it was all going bad. The first instance I could tell it was leaking so Im sure this rules it out. My water pump gasket blew so it was dripping water but not loosing all of it. The second and I couldn't tell either on this one I had a small pin hole in my heater hose it was right where it hooks on and dripping down behind the water pump onto the motor. With the motor catching it it wasn't dripping enough to leave a puddle. but the radiator would drain down to the point that you could see the tranny cooler in it and stop which I guess is about the same height as the hole in the hose. It wouldn't drain completely because it wasnt full pressurized as well as having room to expand inside the radiator
Unfortunately (?) most of the hoses on this car are either new or under a year old. Only thing that was "wrong" with any of them is that AutoHole AGAIN didn't give me a spring in the lower hose to keep it from collapsing, and I had to recycle the old spring.
Not saying it's impossible, but I feel like I've given the hoses sufficient attention for the moment. Although I suppose I could wait until dark and see if normal Prestone glows under blacklight.. heh..
Yeah its probably something I wouldn't know or think to check but it was just a thought I had remembered while posting and thought I'd toss it up as a possibility.
Ben run a compression test on it. One step to check.
It really sounds as if you have a head that has a crack from the water jacket to an exhaust port. But a compression test wont tell you that.
If it is a crack into an exhaust port that could/would explain your puff of smoke at start up. When the car is not running and with no exhaust gas to pressurize the port, coolant could leak into the exhuast manifold. When you start it up it would vaporize.
Don't have the equipment for a compression test. Will have to talk to a friend about it.
Autohole has it in there loaner tool program. Comes in a fancy red case.
Well, I went ahead and bought some $40 compression tester they had. I don't like doing the loan-a-tool thing.. I'd rather just buy the tool and have it, whenever possible. Anyway, it has all the spark plug adapters and all that. Unfortunately, physically I've been a wreck lately.. doc put me on a quick-and-heavy dose of prednisone to try and reduce swelling in my joints and back, and that didn't help any, so she hit me with some Ultram today just so I could be semi-functional again.
Might get together with a friend and work on it this weekend or something.
I've been following this thread with a similar problem, and before I replace the radiator (seems as though it may be clogged), how easy is the compression check with the 'loaner set' going to be for someone like me with little experience ? Will it help me to confirm whether I have a clog ? :dunce:
1. Pull the fuel pump fuse / relay
2. Pull the coil wire
3. Wire the throttle linkage all the way open.
4. Remove ALL of the spark plugs
Easiest to draw a little picture of your engine with the cylinders labeled.
Screw in the compression tester and turn the key over so the car cranks over a few times. Best to position the guage so you can see it. It will bounce up a few times then rest at the highest read compression reading. Do all the cylinders like this and be sure and record it on your picture.
I'm not sure what the compresion is stock on a 3.8 (let alone a 5.0) but when I did my car I got 160 psi across the board. Only +/- 3 psi. And this car has 241,000 miles. Your not really looking for a extremely high number as much as consistancy.
check for partial clogged radiator. it will raise cooling sytem pressure and push water out of the cap/overflow.
easiest way to check is to warm car to temp. turn off and feel the radiator core. hot=good warm=restriction cold=clogged.