I'm skeptical because I'm a newbie. I have done a lot of research on this and since I am good w/ electronics(my biggest woory), I have hope and determination, and this should get me through w/ a little advice from guys like you.
O.K. to the point, here is my situation, I have a 1996 3.8 V6 cougar. I love this car, so much that I could afford to buy a new car, but don't want one. I want this one! However, a V6 is just unnacceptable for a toy car.
My biggest concern w/ this project is what I stand to lose by pulling out the EEC-V(if that is what's in it) wiring harness and replacing it w/ the EEC-IV harness from 87 cougar 5.0 w/ SD & computer from the 92 mustang. I have already addressed the MAF conversion, but I'm concerned about the gauges (check engine light, speedometer, etc..), the ignition wiring, and what will not work afterwards (AOD-E?, airbag[not too worried about this], etc..).
These things seemed to have thwarted my plans, and I'm not ready to give up on this. I am willing to rewire the pins on the EEC-IV to mate w/ my system, no direct plugins necessary, as long as I know they are all going to the right places and I know what I stand to lose ahead of time.
Any advice you guys can give would be immensely appreciated. :bowdown:
Hey, I like this guy, you should help him out!
what you are suggesting is possible, but you'll be much better off using a 1991-1993 5.0L cougar/tbird engine and harness. In fact, what would be ideal is to use a 1991-1993 cougar t-bird engine and harness, keep your current tranny (4R70W) and use a 1994-1995 5.0L mustang auto processor. You'll only have to do minor re-pinning to integrate the harness and processor, it will fit your car because the harness will be from the same chassis, and best of all you'll retain the computer controlled tranny.
OK, great!
i was just wondering about moving in this direction!
So how does the newer harness, or computer accomodate the tranny? Is this system EEC-V based or are there just different pinouts and programming on this model EEC-IV?
It's still an EEC IV, but with only slightly different pinouts and programming. The 1991-1993 cougar/bird harness does not have any wiring for the tranny. However, that harness is what is what eventually evolved into the 1994-95 5.0L mustang harness. So in order to accomodate the tranny you only need to do minimal re-wiring. It has more similarities to that harness than the 87 cougar one. Plus the intakes will fit under your hood. The '87 one won't.
OK I understand now that the 94-95 had an eec-IV, but with some serious issues, like retarded engine timing at wide open throttle, different pinouts, not accepting cam changes well, etc..
So, is there another year model eec-IV that could be used? are ther any mustangs from 87-93 that had 4R70W tranny's?
If not anybody have any ideas about how I can make working w/ the 94-95 EEC a smoother process?
That's a myth. The only thing valid in that statement is the pinouts are different (only slightly). An EEC with the right tuning can do whatever you want to do.
http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=69247
I stand corrected actually, the 94-95 auto processor does retard timing before shifts. But as stated a tune can always eliminate that.
make sure you read the whole thing, specifically the post by "lonnie". He runs the probably the most reputable EEC tuning business in the ford world right now.
If I found that aquiring a 91-93 harness was difficult, other than wire lengths, how much work would go into converting this 87 harness (post MAF conversion) to accomodate the 94-95 EEC and E transmission?
I can't tell you exactly, because I've never tried it or heard of anyone trying it. Obviously if you're good enough, you can make anything possible. I would guess that the major complications would be more of adapting the fox harness to operate in an MN-12.
So lets say I go w/ a wiring ahrness from a 91-93 cougar/t-bird.
What changes are necessary to accomodate the harnees as far as guages, ignition, the 4R70W, and which 94-95 ECM am I looking for?
and on the 4r70w what pins are directed to the tranny?
That diagram is for a manual tranny processor so there are no pins for the tranny. You'd have to get a diagram for an auto tranny (I believe UP-40 is the catch code). Since you'll be starting with a T-bird cougar harness, there will probably be little to no modifications necessary for the gauges and what-not. As far as the tranny there is a bit of modification necessary. The EEC-IV cars use a plug and play harness for the tranny. The EEC V's use a motherboard. You can interchange the two (use a EEC IV to control a EEC V tranny) but you need to know how to re-wire it. There is also an article on that site on how to go about that procedure. To put it plainly, you're asking this question on the wrong site;)
Just throwin this out there....why not use a harness and what not from a 5.0 HO Explorer? They were EEC-V and used a 4R70W auto.
Re-wrapping a harness so it fits seems to be much easier to me than repinning and figuring out how to make an EEC-IV shift a 4R70W in an EEC-V car.
that sounds like an outstanding idea!
any downsides to this?
And which EEC-V cshould i use? Could I get the explorer ECM and just reprogram?
The Explorers do use the DIS setup, but I doubt location of the EEC and such is in the same location as the MN12. I'm with Bill on bettin the '94-'95 Mustang setup is going to be the easiest.
Thanks for the input guys, I really appreciate your advice on this.
What I'd like to know more about is repinning the 91-93 cougar/t-bird harness to work w/ the 94-95 mustang and control the 4r70w trans.
This would be a big part of my installation.
Also, I have heard a lot of not so good things about the 94-95 5.0's.
are these complaints based onthe engine itself or the ECM and its programming. Because I planned to build a 5.0 w/ a used block and just slap some aftermarket heads, intake, distributor etc. Will this 94-95 setup work w/ just basic aftermarket hardware or will I need the special more expensive 94-95 parts?:bowdown:
"3.8L V-6 AOD-E/4R70W transmissions have only one less clutch plate than V-8 units. If you are planning to replace the clutches in your transmission, two new pressure plates (less than $20) from the Ford parts department will make it equal to a V-8 AOD-E/4R70W."
Is there any truth in this?
the 94-95 5.0 mustangs use the 54 pin connector dont they?
anyway...the explorers likely have the ecm mounted right in the firewall like my ranger. the harness doesnt go through the firewall. likely, the harness will be way short to mount it in the MN12 location.
depending on where you live and how strict they are you may be ooking at a few other technicalities. first one i can think of is, federally it is illegal to swap an engine into a vehicle wich is newer than it...the engine has to be the same year or newer. second is your 96 is OBDII. you will lose that regressing into an older harness. when your car is up for inspection they wont be able to plug it in. may be an issue for you, may not. i know id be rejected right there on the spot.
so....why not a 4.6?
OK so why not a 4.6, no real reason other then the availability of the 5.0 and aftermarket support, though this market is rapidly growing for the 4.6. Also, I understood I couldn't bolt my 4r70w trans to the 4.6, I'd have to do more parts swapping, where as the 5.0 would just require electrical work, which I understand better.
I live in Texas, didn't know the rules about the older engine newer car laws, is this for real, No going back?
Also, inspections don't require Computer diagnostics here, I don't think.
Trust me though I am seriously considering 4.6 right now!
one last thing
For anyone looking for what I was looking fro, here are the pinouts for the 5.0 computers
http://fordfuelinjection.com/5.0Lpinouts.html
The diagram posted earlier sure looks like it has 60 pins.
Also, explorers and mountaineers do have the EEC under hood like shame mentioned.
That is a good point, I forgot about the smog puppiess. I live in NJ where that would also be a problem (reverting to an older system). In Texas though, that might not be a problem as some states (especially in the south) do not have emissions. If that's the case, then you could still swap in a 5.0L from a explorer/ mountaineer from 1998 and newer, or you could switch to a 4.6L. Obviously in those cars (MN-12's) working on any type of V8 is a difficult task because it was never meant for a V8. The 5.0L was shoehorned in there, and the 4.6 was that times 5, plus it's more difficult to work around due to the width (exhaust manifolds and headers require K-member removal, intakes require hood fabrication), and of course, mods are expensive. Want to put headers on your mustang cobra (or any fox for that matter witht the 4.6)? No problem, FMS and BBK offers bolt on sets, shorty or full length. Want them for an MN-12? You can only get them from Kooks in Long Island (through SCCoA) or from ART. They cost roughly twice as much as the mustang counterparts, and require the aforementioned headache to install (unless you put them on the motor before it goes into the car, but God help you if those bolts come loose). Want to use the tumble port heads? Not a problem with the fox because there's plenty of hood clearance. In an MN-12 you need a custom hood setup to fit the tumble port head intake. Want to hook up a 5 speed? With a 5.0L you can just get the 3.8L SC car's tranny and parts and hook it right up. With a 4.6, you need a custom lengthened tailhousing and slave cylinder (since the T-45 and T-56 isn't long enough to fit an MN-12).
I don't think it's legal to swap any truck engine into a passenger car, even if it is newer... I'm 99.9% Exploders are classified as trucks...
Depends on where you live. If it is a newer engine AND has lower emissions limits you can in most states. You would then have to go by the emission guidelines/ limitations of the newer engine.
Here Explorers, Expeditions, and Excursions (even with the 6.0TD) get regular plates and regular registration fees. When doing inspections, SUV's are classified as Station Wagons. Kinda messed up concidering Excursions are F250's with a cap and full interior.