Well guys, I figured before I went ahead with this plan, I would discuss it here first to get some input. Lately I have been contemplating selling my Turbo Coupe to purchase a Sport model. Why? I just have to believe that the responsiveness of the V8 would be so much better than what I currently have in my Automatic Turbo 4. There are serveral other reasons why I believe I would be making the right decision:
1) Durability- I just have to believe that It would literally take TNT to destroy a 302. Considering my driving style, I can't imagine putting much stress on that engine at all. I drive to work and back everyday in stop and go traffic.
2) Reliability-Again, compared to my Turbo 4, I imagine that far less things go wrong on the 302 (if taken care of properly of course...).
3)Power- Yes, I have a Turbo Coupe, but it is the Automatic (Which I did want by the way...). I have looked at the Horsepower ratings and the Sport model with the V8 allegedly has 5 more horsepower. On top of that, I have to think that the 150hp rating for the Automatic turbo coupe is with the Turbo actually engaged. With the 302, the power is already there, and as a bonus, it has tons more torque.
4)Air Sluggishness- Running Air Conditioning with any 4 cylinder car bogs the hell out of the engine. I would think it would have less of an effect on 8 big cylinders.
5)Looks- The other day I saw a Dark Red, 8 holed, 87 Sport driving around the block....and I must say I was impressed. Even with the Grill and no Hood Scoops, I thought the car looked awesome. And, I would be able to get the same interior as my Turbo Coupe now, and if it's an '88, would get the buttstuffog guages as well.
So, with all that said, and having seen what I currently drive now in the picture below, what would you do in my situation? I know I could probably get 1 grand or more for the Turbo, and finding a Sport probably wouldn't be too hard. (If anyone wants to trade....I live in Tucson. Drop me a line.....)
Your car looks exactly like my parts car (except in better condition) :hick:
If you want to retain an auto tranny I think a 5.0 car would be the way to go. The A4LD is a very weak slushbox, so cranking up the 2.3 wouldn't be a reliable option.
If you can swing it, keep the "$520 wonder" as a donor car. This would net you several benefits, including the fact that you would not need to find a "Sport" model - any 5.0 T-Bird would be as good a starting point if you were gonna swap the TC rear, swaybars and interior in anyway. The 3.73 8.8" in your TC would really wake up even the SO 5.0.
If you've got to sell the TC to buy the Sport, and if you're hell bent on getting a Sport, try to find an '88. The 87 has the same interior as the base T-Birds (except with a console and floor shifter) so you'd be giving up a lot in the way of seat comfort when compared to your TC. The 88 Sport has the TC seats and an buttstuffogue cluster (as you mentioned). Plus, some 88 Sports apparently have the 8.8" drum-brake rear.
Man I wish you were closer! I would gladly give you a grand for that bird, or trade for my '88 5.0L 5 speed LX 'bird.
I bought my 5.0 Sport for many of the same reasons you're contemplating the same thing. My 5.0 has been far more trouble free than my 2.3 turbo was. Another reason I made the change was simplicity. For example, I'll take vacuum brakes over the electric ABS system any day. That ABS costs a fortune to diagnose and repair when it develops problems. Also I loved my electronic climate control but again- big $$$$ if it s out. And finally the 5.0 is so much easier to work on than the 2.3 turbo.
The ideal situation would be if you could keep the TC and use it as a parts car. I was "lucky" that a drunk driver totalled my turbocoupe before I had a chance to sell it... Viola, Instant parts car!!! There are a ton of good parts on the TC. Especially yours, hell just the 3.73 disk brake rear and 11" front brakes make it worth keeping for a parts car.
I agree with thunder chicken... Find an 88 sport if you can. Mine is an 87 and I never liked the electronic cluster. Although now it's kinda cool after doing the speedo mod... I'd still rather have an buttstuffog tach though.
All Points Bulletin:
Will Galdly trade 87 Turbo Coupe for ANY 5.0 Thunderbird. Preferably Sport model!
Yeah, the main reason for my wanting to do this is mostly the power issue. I know that with the 5.0, the power output is all there when you press of the pedal. For my car, the Turbo has to kick in to full blast before it achieves the maximum power rating. I want to be able to drive on the highway up to Phoenix without worrying about killing the engine. And I'm not a total Handling freak like some of you guys are, so the rear end doesn't really bother me that much. I made U-turns just fine in my LX, and I'm sure I could adjust to a 5.0.
And yes, from what I have heard, the 302's are much easier to work on, and parts are more readily available. While I do know that putting a T-5 in my current car would solve the power issue, I simply don't want a standard transmission. So, that leaves me with only one option: get a powerful V8. I'm not going to be doing any racing, so have an "S.O." isn't the end of the world for me. Since I've never driven a V8 Automobile before, I would probably find the power more than enough!
It's possible to to up the boost to approx 12 lbs, advance the timing to 12*-14*(two simple mods) and get decent performance from the auto version. My TC was a auto and with just those two changes it ran much stronger. If you don't continually beat on it and change the fluid EVERY year, a fresh A4LD should hold up. Playing with the G-tech, mine gave a reading of 162hp(vs 195 for a STRONG 5 speed I had at the same time) and would lay a 20 ft patch of rubber(power braking).
That's one of the more stranger things about my car which I haven't to this point mentioned. I know the Auto Turbo's were only supposed to get 10lbs of boost, but when I trounce on the thing, I can get up to 15lbs easy.
hmm, I got a couple of 86 v-8 cougars. tuscon is alittle bit far though. may I suggest that you just swap in a v-8? it is really well documented here, and you would have all the good parts of the turo coupe. Including rear disks and a killer suspension. It would also lower you car in the front an inch or two.
btw, a v-8 would prolly even feel week compaired to 15 lbs of boost.
you could swap. if you didn't mind being down a car for a weekend (or two)
A stock 5.0 SO isn't going to feel that much quicker than your auto Turbo Coupe. They're probably equally fast. I've done a few mods to mine (check my sig) and the car has woken up considerably. The 5.0 Sport will have much more low end torque than your Turbo Coupe though which might make it feel faster.
A 302 easier to work on than the 2.3? I don't know about that. I've worked on both and the 2.3 is pretty darn accessable, but I know that's not your only gripe.
Hey man I live in PHX and I'll keep my eyes out for a sport, to be honest with you, the only foxes I ever see around here anymore are either ghetto cruisers, or bario beaters. I've seen a few nice 4-eye birds, and I saw one really nice 87-88 Cougar LS. I do know for a fact that there is a really nice tan colored 88 Sport around here though because it has window louvres that I really want. I've only seen it once though at a Wendy's. And just to clarify, what's the difference between the TC seats and the LX seats, because mine are the 8-way power with the controlable lumbar and the adjustable ass flaps on the side and the little lift up leg rest thing in the front, and I think they are pretty comfortable.
Someone swaped you seats at some point then. My LX seats are flat with no lumbar or leg rest. I do have dual power seats though.
I've had both, the 5.0 might have the low end advantage, but the 2.3 has the 5.0 beat everywhere else. 2.3's pull to red line (properly setup), get better mileage, are easier to get at what you need, and are more reliable when maintained. 5.0's have breathing problems up high, can suck gas as much as a 2.3 under full boost all the time.
I'll give you the sound is no comparison. And at highway speeds, a good 2.3 will pull like crazy. Turbo cars are nuts at highway speeds. Once the exhaust gets hot, the engine just screams and away you go. If anything, I would get a 5.0 car and drive them both...see which you like better then decide. All this talk means nothing if your tastes are different. Some guys like all grunt and no top end....I don't fault them. Just don't decide because you have a 2.3 auto that its the worst thing possible.
Not necessarily. I know where there's an '88 LX rotting in a guy's back yard with the TC/sport seats, floor shifter, and full digital dash with woodgrain dash panels. The car is absolutely loaded. The guy is the original owner and claims that everything on the car is as it was delivered when new (including the full body kit, which I've been trying to buy from him). Because of this car I'd always thought that all 88 V8 LX's had the TC seats, but seeing that yours has the standard seats now has me thinking this may be another of those factory freaks, or the TC seats may have been an option. I suppose they also could have been dealer installed, but regardless, the guy says he bought the car new that way.
I have been trying to buy that car off him for three years now but he won't sell it. Shame, too - the raven TC interior is mint and the body kit would be nice to have, but every time I call him or stop in I get "Well, I don't know if I want to sell it". The poor thing is literally sitting on the frame, it's sunken in the mud that deep...
It has the 5 speed turbo then(or at least the wastegate bleed fitting from one, thats the only difference in the auto and stick versions of the IHI.)
Ckeck the timing...
You're not suggesting changing the timing in order to get the boost...down...are you!?
Change the timing to get more power - not boost
How would I go about doing this? How do I adjust it, and what do I adjust it to for more power?
Not necessarily. My girlfriend's 88 TC is auto. The previous owner had the turbo rebuilt and had the wastegate lines routed wrong. The car would only produce roughly 6 psi. After I looked at the fan shroud and corrected the mistake, it would hit 10 psi and felt like a different car. It would also surge to 15 psi every once and again. Surge is caused by long waste gate tubing such as the system used on 87-88 TC's. The IHI's are the same and the only time the BCS bleeds pressure is when the premium switch is flipped on the 5-speed cars.
Also it came with the premium switch and a BCS, but obviously flipping the switch wouldn't make a difference. The guy said the car wasn't messed around with and was totally stock. I don't know if all TC's came with a BCS and just the 5-speeds (having the extra PCM port) would have it functional. If I get a chance I can swap my LA3 into it and see if it makes it work.
These seats have always been in the car. My grandpa got it as a company car, but liked it so much when he left that he bought it off of them, then my dad got it, now I own it. One of us would have known if the seats were changed out.
I have a floor shifter, digital cluster, wood grain dash and TC seats in mine as well, and Mike Pinto informed me that I have TC style door panels as well (or at least the lock switches). But mines an 87.
This is exactly right your going to feel fast not be faster. Tune what you have, wake it up youll proably be happier.
The BCS is there on the automatics and likely functions... It's the restrictor in the line line to it that makes the difference(can't bleed as much). I've swapped a auto 8UA EEC into a 5 speed TC and it still made 15 lbs. I swapped the complete turbo with fittings from my automatic into a 5 speed with the LA3 EEC and it only made 9 psi.
This one didn't even use the BCS, it just kinda sat there. I haven't had time to add a power switch to it to see what kind of boost it builds. But I know this one did nothing because it was unplugged when I found it, in fact it was bypassed. So with it hooked up and powered on, it should make the 15 psi. But this is only an assumption and can't be proved until the car gets fixed. If it is the turbo, I have a 5 speed IHI in my basp00get and I can verify to see if that is the case. I can't see why it would be any different. The waste gates were all the same between the T3 and the IHI. All that was different was the BCS.
According to the 88 dealer brochure I have only the Turbo Coupe and Sport had a full counsel and floor shifter. My car is loaded and I mean loaded. I have every option but a sunroof. I even have leather seats and they still are the flat style with the counselette. I know mine is definatly a LX (I checked the vin and it has an LX badge). Maybe like you said some LXs snuck out later with the floor shift and Turbo Coupe seats when production was winding down. My car was built in September 1987 and it was #4035 off the line so it's realativly early production.....
My 87 LX has full center console, no floor shifter, TC seats, and TC style door panels. Everything is stock on the inside. I'm the second owner. The guy i bought it off of is a preacher so wouldnt lie...lol.
Hmm I have the TC style door panles too. All LX and Tcs got those door panels. I swear that the counsel isn't a regular option in a LX. Those that have it must have been special order.
This is my second 87 t-bird with a full console. My first one was in a 87 base.
I hear the sales pitch now... I only drove it to church on Sunday. :D
Maybe the console was aval in '87, it is not listed as aval for the LX in the '88 sales album...
I've seen consoles in V6 cars, both LS Cougars and base Thunderbirds (went to look at an '88 V6 Cougar once that had the console, before I bought the '88 T-Bird - they lied and told me it was a V8, but of course they also lied and said it was in good shape) so I can't see it not being an option on the LX. Remember, those sales brochures are full of innacuracies...
Maybe it was a special order? When I order my 91 ranger it was only available with tu-tone paint in the XLT trim package. I wanted the XLT trim but I didn't want the tu-tone paint. The sales man said I had to have tu-tone. I said I'll have the tu-tone - make the colours black and black with no pin stripe of anykind. When I got the truck it was mono colour with no stripes.
:rollin: You Newfies are smarter than I've been led to believe, good story...
As far as the consoles in Base/LX Birds, untill I see a trim code verifying it(different seat/interior options alyays get revised codes) I still ain't believing they were factory... Maybe dealer...
Full consoles were available on any 1985-88 Cougar GS or LS, or Thunderbird base/LX. They were indeed an option. It was through the dealer order sheet and wasn't listed in the brochures. You had to get the bucket seats (obviously) with them, but I believe that was the only requirement. The reading lights were an option, but the wiring harness to where the switch would be on the back of the console was sometimes still installed under the console. There are separate trim codes for non-sport (aka Turbo Coupe) bucket seats on 1985-88 cars that will confirm this. See here for an example (scroll all the way down): http://www.coolcats.net/fox/1986colors.html
Thanks! I'll take that as a compliment....I think!:dunno:
But, I didn't think you could get any smarter than a genius!
Well then I guess my Bird is missing an option besides the sunroof.
Speaking of sunroof, the plastic Visor that one pulls forward to block the sun is in rather bad condition. The velvet-like material with the slits in it is stained, and parts are ripped away. How does one repair this? Is there a spray or do I have to get another one?
Wow...y'all are really making me miss my '88 Sport (and the others I've owned)!!
DMC....have you ever considered dropping in a 5.0 and T5 into the TC? The TC and Sport models are nearly identical as far as suspension and interior. In fact if you look at photos of my last Sport, it looks just like a TC until you pop the hood. Unless someone really knows the differences between the two, once you've swapped the motor, no one would ever know. Of course, as has been stated...the 2.3 is as strong (stronger HP-wise) as a stock TBird 5.0, so if it's power you're looking for, the H.O. motor from a donor Mustang is the best way to go simply for the amount of inexpensive bolt-ons that are available. I had a 331 stoker in my last Bird before I sold it... Loved it! :D
Yeah.....it's my first post..but I'm no stanger to the aero-birds! I sold my last one in 2002...used to maintain a TBird Site (ThunderCoupe ring a bell to anyone?!)... I'm back in the market for another 88 Sport myself!
I can verify this. On 8birdy8s car all he had to do was plug in the switch and plug in the light. works fine.
welcome to the site. im in ogden so you not alone in utah. i think there are a souple more of us around here./hyjak
801 representing yo's
I lived in Ogden when I had my Birds...I'm in the SLC area now... I've just begun looking around again for another TBird project, although it will probably be awhile until I can actually spring the $$'s for one! lol! :D