Well, as Ford continues its downward spiral, SVT will be no more.
http://www.planetblueoval.com/ford/legendary_svt_o_1_000632.asp (http://"http://www.planetblueoval.com/ford/legendary_svt_o_1_000632.asp")
Oh well, I recently saw a GT500 in person, and it looks like to be honest. The concept and show cars look good, but we shoulda known the actual production ones look pretty tacky. The rims look like , the hood looks like , and the deck lid just did not flow right. It was a convertable, but just didnt look right. I was somewhat dissappointed.
Yeah, I didn't really see what all the hype about that particular Mustang was, other than it goes fast. I think other than the GT the Ligntning was the last cool vehicle to come from them.
Uhh the whole SVT being disbanded is old news i knew about a year ago.
I kind of figured that this was going to happen when they "formally" announced in 04 that there would not be another SVT till 2007 but i was holding out hope that there would be.
Not cool :(
Bummer.... Hey Ford...:flip: :flip:
thats why im always saying scoop up a good 03-04 cobra while the good ones are still out there. this sucks....
SVT isn't really going away. It's just being absorbed by the mainstream divisions. We'll still see some special models, like the old SVO and SHO, but not a line of models like SVT.
I wonder if they'll still be selling SVT parts in the Ford Racing Catalogs? I still have dreams of an '03-04 cobra powered '98 LSC :D
It's sad that when other in house performance divisions of other automakers are doing well SVT gets the ax.
Exactly, an 03-04 Cobra or Lightning look even more attractive now that we know they will be no more.
, that sucks, no more Cobra or Lightning, its hard to sink in.
Considering the Cobra and Lightning were already gone, this should be such a shock.
Yea, seriously... I think Dodge has an SRT version of everyfreakinthing they're making right now....
SVT was a waste of money. Even with all their hoopla they still couldn't make a large number of performance cars. And I really think they suck for never tuning the LS, Marauder, FWD Cougar, and Taurus.
That division never earned its keep in my book. Not to mention that XR7s, SHOs, SVOs and plenty of other hot Fords never needed SVT anyway.
Anyone remember Ford in the 1960s? Total performance??? All models had performance built in from the start. That's the way it should be.
You are missing the entire point here. The point is that Ford is abandoning a performance oriented group which produced high performance vehicles. Also in case you didnt realize, we dont live in the 60's anymore, high performance v8 american muscle is slowly dying, and this seems to be Fords last dog in the american muscle fight. The late Cobra and Lightning were the some of the fastest Ford vehicles produced, period. Im talking about a serious hp machine, 12sec cars from the factory.
Now I realize that Ford could produce muscle cars, but with the passing of SVT, it shows that Ford is more concentrated on economy vehicles and trucks rather than speed. Yeah, we still have the mustang, but thats about it unless you want to shell out big bucks for a GT500 and goodluck getting one. SVT had the balls to use superchargers on V8s, something that is very rare on a production vehicle. Its not slapping on some badges, its not throwing in a 4cyl turbo, its serious HP and potential. And this seems to be a sign that Ford will no longer research high performance applications any longer. The GT500 was a let down IMHO. Weve got to compete against the C6 vette, the Zo6, GTO from GM and the host of RWD platforms that Dodge is putting the Hemi in.
Then try doing so N/A. I think resorting to a supercharger was one of the reasons SVT fell. Saleen and Roush already do that, why doesn't ford pull a GM and build their own LS7? The SVT cobra was just a mustang with a blower. Something you see every friday at the track.
And for those who don't get what's happening here...
"March 1, 2006
Dear ,
Your letter to Mr. William Clay Ford dated February 22, 2006 was forwarded to my attention. Your note expressed concerns over rumors of the disbanding of the Ford Special Vehicle Team.
On behalf of everyone at SVT, thank you for taking the time to write and express your feelings. First, let me thank you for your loyalty to Ford Motor Company. It is great to receive notes from people like yourself that have enjoyed our products over the years and worry about the future regarding one or more of their favorite nameplates.
By any measure, the SVT F-150 Lightning has been a very successful product for Ford Motor Company. With a total of nearly 40,000 SVT F-150 Lightning trucks produced since 1993, it has been a highly successful and appreciated by our customers and, in general, is a highly regarded sport truck nameplate in the industry. While the postponement of the SVT F-150 Lightning has raised questions about the future of the Ford Special Vehicle Team, there continues to be support among members of senior management for performance vehicles. This is most evident by the introduction of the Ford GT in calendar year 2004 and the new Shelby Mustang GT500 that will be available later this year.
Regarding the Ford Special Vehicle Team specifically, SVT marketing, product planning and distribution are being incorporated into mainstream Ford-brand operations. This change, among others, was part of the recently announced companywide-restructuring plan known as the "Way Forward." Any further announcements regarding SVT programs will be communicated through our dealers and via our website, http://www.fordvehicles.com. Alternatively, feel free to contact the Ford Performance Group, at 1-866-377-8862, between 8:30 A.M. - 6:00 P.M. Eastern Time, Monday through Friday.
Thank you, once again, for your patronage and for taking the time to express your concern.
Sincerely,
/s/ Burt Diamond
Global Marketing Manager
Ford Racing Technology "
We don't live in the 60s? ;)
Performance doesn't need a division, it comes built in. Look at the Corvette Z06...the best performing car this side of $500,000 and it was engineered and made by the same people who make every other Corvette. Not only that, it is so radically different from the regular corvette, SVT hasn't made anything like that. Aside from the Cobra's independent rear (which was pretty much a Mark VIII part) SVT has done little different from what you get from Saleen, Roush or a parts catalog. But its not just about American muscle.
SVT and their bullshiznit dealer network was slow, expensive and clumsy. They had the chance to make
millions off of the Contour and Focus SVTs by beating the puppiesanese at their own game and they screwed it up. They gotta go. Ford can make the same things (Lightning, Shelby, etc) without them if they really want to. Most of the people who work for SVT are gonna be working on actual cars now, and you can bet things will get better.
Wait a few years for the company to stop worrying about bankruptcy and you might see products that SVT couldn't make in their dreams.
Now if they'd only sell Jaguar off...
Couldn't have put it better myself. Ford doesn't need SVT to put aturbocharged engine in the Fusion (like the Mazda6) or a V8 in the Five Hundred (like the Volvo S80). The GT500 (dissapointing as it may be for some) does not need an SVT badge. And a Lightning by any other name would still be a Lightning.
No, Ford doesn't need SVT. What Ford needs is A) money and B) the will to build performance vehicles. A) is the most important right now. Ford needs to build cars that people want. The Five Hundred was a dismal flop, but the Fusion is a step in the right direction. I have seen exactly four Five Hundreds on the road since its introduction, but I seem to be tripping over Fusions everywhere I go. And the Five Hundred had a year's head start. Now, start installing those new 3.5 V6's tuned to 275-300 horses or simply swap the Mazdaspeed 6's turbo four in, and the Fusion becomes very appealing. Develop a good hybrid powertrain and the model's appeal broadens. These things are in the works, of course - it just remains to be seen whether Ford will build them before the public bores of the car - something I fear happened with the Five Hundred the day it was introduced...
And a note to Ford: Stop "dumbing down" your home market cars. Americans want cars that are reliable and fun, not "fleet specials". For a start, bring us the goded European Focus already! Selling a new car in Europe for three years while continuing to sell the old one here is inexcusable, and it's thinking like this that is making Toyota the #1 company while Ford is heading for bankruptcy...
Hate to say it, but Ford mod engines cannot compete with engines like the LS series engine and Hemispherical engines without a supercharger. These mod motors are junk, its the cold hard truth. Ford does not seem to what to put in the hard work and R&D to develop reliable yet powerful engines to power their vehicles. As a result, SVT took a half-assed vehicle that Ford put out and built the motor like it should have been(to a certain extent) and made it competitive with everyone else. SVT took the that Ford put out and made it the best it could be given the fact that it is still . Is that clear enough. The standard mustang is a joke, the Cobra however is bad. Now Ford used to put out a pretty nice platform that we could work with, the 5.0 mustang foxbody for instance was a perfect performance platform and competitive for its time. The 70's was bad for everyone, the 60s and such, well, like I said, times have changed.
I liked SVT because Ford could release all the junk in the world, and atleast you knew SVT would take it and make it somewhat decent. As it stands, Ford is a bleeding pig in the auto market. Their trucks are the only thing holding them afloat. Id like to see nothing more than Ford dedicate more R&D toward efficient production of HP and a better V8 engine, possibly even OHV. But its seems that they have all but abandoned the performance market.
Wait a few years, the industry is super lean right now and Ford will bounce back. And when SVT employees filter into the leaner, meaner Ford organization, you can bet they'll be making the cars SVT did. Except they'll be cheaper or actually worth the expense, more plentiful,available with a Mercury or Lincoln badge, and cater to everyone from musclecar, sports car, ricers, and BMW fans.
I dont see any future mercury or lincoln vehicles being built, I mean look at what is out there now. Lincoln is in the business of luctury cars/suvs(now trucks). Mercury, I dont see anything happening there. The Zehpr? I guess we will have to settle for FWD v6 platforms in the future?
Lets face it, the mustang is Ford only RWD v8 platform to work with, unless you go with a truck. Thats very sad.
Ford has been harshly criticized by auto enthusiasts for ignoring the recent trend back to rear-wheel-drive, but that could be about to change. Chrysler has its widly popular 300C sedan, plus the Dodge Charger and Challenger. GM has confirmed plans for a new rear-wheel-drive Chevrolet Impala, Camaro, Monte Carlo, Buick Statesman, and Pontiac GTO. Determined not to miss the RWD bandwagon, Ford is quietly working on a "rear-wheel-drive family car based on the Mustang that's coming at the end of the decade," according to the latest issue of Newsweek. The article also mentions Ford's plan to build the Fairlane minivan, which harks back to the '50s wood-paneled wagon. Moreover, the report reiterates rumors that GM is planning a Chevrolet Sting Ray — a premium version of the Pontiac Solstice.http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/03/07/ford-working-on-retro-rear-wheel-drive-sedan/
I wouldnot mind seeing the Australian falcons or maybe a 4wd focus like they have in eroupe but no Ford obviously can not make that transition. The Fairlane "van" from what i have seen is butt ulgy and will be rejected by the people that know what a REAL Fairlane was. Ford seems content on taking the old nameplates and f**king them to hell and beyond.
That was also rumored. The Falcons would come here and replace the Crown Vics, Grand Marquis, Town Cars...
All in all, its hard to tell from the rumors. Only thing we know for a fact is that Ford's Volvo-cars (500, Montego) are only appealing to old people, thereby giving Dearborn a taste of its own medicine.
That whole Australian Falcons idea would fall right into place with GM's Holden --> GTO thing. Hopefully a supercharged V8 'ute', as they call them, wouldn't see such a quick death as the GTO did.
Im not so sure about that (here we go again) the GTO was nothing more than a v8 powered Gandam/prix and I associate it as so. The only thing that they falcon comes close to looking like is maybe a mazda 6.
Falcon
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a185/Loki363987/hero_xr8.jpg)
Mazda 6
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a185/Loki363987/03.jpg)
and is this what you are talking about with the ute Falcon Ute
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a185/Loki363987/hero_xl.gif)
I was simply comparing the rumored importation of the Falcon to GM's brief capitalization on the Holden Monaro that became the 'flash in the pan' GTO. Not saying Ford is going to drop a bomb on us as GM did with the GTO.
Ok im sorry that i misunderstood, you and have you seen those XR8 Falcon sport utes i love the way those thing look, they may scream personal pickup but hell they look nice.
I've always been SUPER jealous of the cool cars they get down under. My one goal has been that if I ever got rich I was going to have a bunch of the Ausssie Fords imported.
I'd like to think that if the Aussie Fords do come here they would be significantly re-styled to appeal to Americans. Not that it bothers me much, but we all know how poorly the GTO turned out, and its a shame.
And once again, we all know how wrong that association is. The GTO has absolutely nothing to do with a Grandam, other than looks. Just as all Ford SUV's look exactly the same now, Pontiac lucked out that the Monaro's lines fit so well with the Pontiac brand image. They weren't as lucky with how the public ignorantly expected some in your face retro Fat-Goat.
I would love to see ford start using more RWD platforms like Dodge has been so successful doing. The GTO is a great idea, a high HP LS1 engine in a small car. But there are two things wrong with it:
-Its heavy, way too heavy for its size. GM dropped the ball on developing a lighter platform. You would think the car is fast, but have you driven one, granted its a 13 second car, but with 400hp that car should be well into the 12s, no excuses.
-Its plain, the car looks like a cavalier if you ask me. I mean atleast make the car look the role, it looks like everyother car on the road, it doesnt stand out a bit. Now why would you buy a car that looks just like every other car on the road?
I will give GM props on the car, and hopefully they will tweak it a bit to look the part.
Dodge is by far way ahead of the game, they have several RWD OHV engine platforms putting out the power and looking very different from anything else on the road. THe cars/trucks say look at me, I have balls. Unless Ford does something "innovative" which they claim they are, things are looking very very bleak.
....says the guy who owns a new Ford. :D
Lucked out? Well Those I've spoken to who have one didn't exactly buy it for it's looks......It didn't have to be in your face, but it didn't have to be so bland either.....
Dodges trucks have to be the ulgiest that i have seen in a while, dont get me wrong the Dakotas back in 98 were. They make the dakota to look like "The Mayor Of Truck vill" and they totally screwed up the Durango (Infact Mercedes was intent to screw the Durango from the beginning they were going to release a new ute called the Power Box which morphed into the new Durango). The only promising thing on the horizion for dodge is the caliber it looks nice and the SRT4 is sporting about 270 horses. Its intresting to see what will become of the top 2 in the next ten years, Both Ford and GM need to get thier act together but dont seem intrested in doing so.
Taken From Forbes.com
http://www.forbesautos.com/reviews/2006/dodge/charger/testdrive.html
[All of this is great news for Dodge, which would love to have a popular passenger car on its hands, given that the Neon and Stratus are pretty passé at this point, to say the least. One reason Dodge wants this kind of new vehicle is it has become such a truck-heavy brand that people forget it sells cars. Dodge says it holds an 18% American market share in trucks but only a 5% share of the passenger car market.]
I wouldent exactly call those numbers ahead of the Game.
And no im not saying Ford or GM are doing any better because they are not.
Buy one, drive it and you'll also realize they are the biggest hunks of shiznit on the road today. We had a 2005 Chrysler 300C Hemi, it was literally falling apart after one year. Sold it and got a Town Car instead. Believe it or not, we are much happier
Problems with the Chrysler 300 from my experience:
* horribly thin, hard and uncomfortable seats
* vast majority of back seat is vinyl
* Driver's seat leather looked as worn at 14,000 miles as my Mark VIII is at 135,000. (somewhat exaggerated)
* Interior has cheap plastics that smell like a Hyundai
* Vinyl covered steering wheel feels cheap after being used to leather
* Rock and a hard place Armrests
* Bumpers wiggle when new, sag after a year of loading stuff into the trunk
* HEMI gets horrible mileage unless you go 55mph so the cylinder deactivation thing works
* HEMI never idled smoothly
* Power steering whine worse than Fords (that's really saying something)
* Noisy tires
* Rough ride with decent (not great) handling
* HORRIBLE visibility
* Manual lumbar support (yeah its not power) failed after 8 months of use
* Rear doors make a cheap humming sound when closed
* A/C cuts on and off
* No bass for rear seat passengers
* Shallow trunk
Keep in mind this is a $40,000 car.This was the first Chrysler my family ever purchased and it probably will be the last. This was the fully loaded HEMI with Boston Acustics stereo and even wood trim to replace that retarded Tortise shell plastic junk. Maybe those 60s Mopar Muscle cars were great and the Minivans were decent, but that's it for the Pentastar.
What a pile. No wonder all of Detroit is in trouble.
Yes I'd rather drive a FWD Ford with a puny V6 over a RWD Chrysler any day. Take my word for it.
I definitely agree with pro-five-oh on Chrysler products. My family bought a brand new Stratus back in the day, because we were impressed with the innovative design and initial ride quality. However, the brakes were gone after 20k miles, and the head gasket started going after 55k miles when we got rid of it. I mean, this was a decade ago and it seems like Chrysler is still the same way, if not worse: Strong design, style and performance ideas for their vehicles, but bad execution. For me it seems like they have too many ideas on their plate, and just spit out the cars as fast as they can without doing adequate second-guessing or refinement - kind of like the shotgun effect of marketing (if we throw out tons of products, maybe one or two will stick). I went to the Philly auto show a few weeks ago, and the newer Chrysler vehicles like the Jeep Commander and Dodge Charger were downright horrible to just sit in compared with other brands. Just as an example, in this day and age, and especially at that price, there should be no excuse to leave the B-pillar metal completely visible when the doors are shut.
pro, your experience with Dodges certainly is not unique. Even my 9-month-old Neon is showing signs of cheap craftsmanship. Since I've had it I've put alsmost 25k on it (a lot, I know). I've changed the oil every 2500-5000 miles (within the owners manual spec) with Mobil 1 and a Purolator PureOne filter. Yet, still, when the engine is cold the valvetrain rattles like hell and even once it's warm, I can pull up along side of a building and hear an occasional ticking. That's the most troubling of all the problems.
In addition it too has the worn seat, I've accidentally kicked the door sill panel off twice. The car shakes like none other at varying speeds. The brakes squeal already, sometimes the pedal pulsates. I think I'll be going over this car quite in-depth before I drive it to South Carolina.
The whole thing goes back to something my dad said years ago regarding Chryslers. He always said they made good looking cars, but they all end up falling apart. My continued bad feelings about this car are really making me reconsider my dream of buying a new Charger someday. Especially since it's akin to your 300.
Uhh, if you read my previous posts I made the reference in which Ford trucks were keeping them alive. Ford trucks are the best selling and best bang for the buck in trucks. However(if you read) the trucks alone cannot and will not keep Ford afloat, especially the way gas prices are going.
The above post was specfically made towards cars, such as the GTO, Stang, 300, Challenger, etc. You dont see me driving a new Ford car do you? Didnt think so. I consider the car and truck dept of Ford separate. As they should be, they are very different. Ford couldnt give away cars and their trucks sell like hotcakes, go figure.
Hit the nail on the head. The public isnt ignorant for wanting something that looks decent, is that not even a consideration?
My apologies. Had I known we were going by your model of how Ford as a corporation is organized, I would not have made my initial comment.
I will make an effort to read more carefully in the future.
Um guys...I realize that you may have had bad experiences with Dodges, but have you driven new Ford and GM cars/trucks. They arent any better. Put it this way, my 05 truck has had more repairs than my last truck @ 100k miles. Including master cylinder failure, brake fluid leaks, vibration at idle, dealer replaced tires once due to irregular wear(Ford now uses Hankook tires), various interior rattles, hood shake, cam phasor tick, and now I find out that the 5.4L 3V engines seize sparkplugs and they break during removal. This is just to name a few.
I think Dodge is ahead of the game because they are producing cars that are actually appealing somewhat. They use a powerful v8 engine, their transmissions suck though. The cylinder deactivation is killer, does Ford use that? Believe it or not, Ive driven an 04 Hemi Ram and it got better gas mileage than my 5.4L F150, and it was quicker. But Im not one to complain about gas mileage, hell dont but an effing hemi if you are worried about gas. Thats the way I see it.
The way I see it, Dodge products are becoming more and more appealing to the public, whereas GM and Ford seem to be losing market share. Hey I dont like it anymore than anyone else, but trust me, Ford is(was) our biggest customer, so I know first hand how they are doing. I dont rely on some biased news article. I see first hand the plant closings, and the fact that we are picking up business from foreign manuf and also Dodge. Thats the cold hard truth like it or not. And come on, you cant expect to get a quality car when you buy an effing neon, really. They are like geo metros, you get what you pay for.
Its not my model, but you need to recognize that the truck market is Fords bread and butter.
How the hell is Dodge, or any carmaker for that matter, supposed to attract repeat customers if they don't put a certain level of quality in
all of their cars? I'm not saying that the Neon needs to have fine Corinthian leather and real walnut trim panels, but it needs to be of good enough quality to make that person want to consider another Dodge when the time comes to trade in the Neon. They might even be more inclined to spend more money on their next Dodge because of it, too.
On the other hand, if the Neon falls apart at the seams then that person won't be able to walk away from Dodge fast enough and you can bet the next car in their driveway is going to be a Honda.
that is basically whats happening. I acutally thought about getting a new toyota.
Not that I expect, as Jim said, exotic wood dash and memory power heated seats, navigation and things of that sort. But I would like the car to still be running and drivable when I'm on the last couple payments a few years from now.
Yes I have and the Mercury Montego is about a bazillion times better than any Chrysler product out there. None of my beefs with the 300 were present in the Montego. Even the ancient GM W-bodies are nicer than the Chrysler HEMIs. I never wanted that POS Chrysler, spend 10 mins in it as a passenger and you'll understand why. Even my Dad admitted he shoulda got a 500/Montego after he finally decided to sell the 300.
Granted Honda and Toyota make the best cars out there these days, but I still don't like them. Too boring and too expensive to buy and upkeep.
There's enough good to like about a NEW Ford car when the day is done. Drive them all yourself if anyone doesn't wanna take my word for it.
Yeah I wanted to say something when you got the Neon, but it probably was too late and I didn't want to sound like a complete dick since that was a new car and you're making the payment. Hell, you'd be better off getting a used Tempo like some other guy here did. :)
Speaking of charger, I went on a 3 hour roadtrip in a Charger RT in December. Its seats are nicer than the 300, even though more of the "leather" seats are made of vinyl than in the Chrysler. Ride was OK, it got 21mpg @75mph (my Mark gets 28mpg at that speed) but the A/C cut out and there was a squeak in the dash that even my 300 didn't have. They are all rolling turds. Honestly I'd prefer being a passenger in a new Hyundai Sonata over any HEMI.
The only time I really enjoyed the 300 was when I took out the air silencer, found an empty road and disabled the traction control. No locking diff and a quick 1st gear made for fun times. But that's it.
Yea, I agree with that. During the recent auto show, I sat my ass in every car that wasn't locked. However, one thing that drove me nuts about the 500/Montego was that big compartment in the top, middle of the dash. It felt like if you breathed wrong the lid would snap off its hinges.
That's funny, all the ones I've seen at the dealers are pretty good in that department...could be better, but not bad for a car that starts in the low-20s. I bet it got a good beating on the Auto Show circuit.
Speaking of, looks like the 500/Montego is more of a hit than us RWD fans would like to admit. Honestly after a year of Chrysler ownership, I almost believe it.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/03/12/000369.html