Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

I need your help to decide what direction the T-Bird is gonna take. Please read the below long-winded presentation and vote for what YOU would do, and feel free to post why. Also feel free to post any input (advantages or disadvantages I may have forgotten, etc)

Here's the dilemma: I want to upgrade my T-Bird. I've always wanted to "hot rod" my T-Bird, and I've finally got the place (garage) and money to do so. The problem is that I don't know what direction to go. I have a few possibilities that I've been tossing about in my mind but can't decide which way would be the best to go.

Naturally any project is highly dependent on what the owner wants from the car. With me I simply want the car to perform and handle much better than it does now (not too much to ask, right? ;)). My recent suspension parts buying spree will help on the handling side, but as for performance I'm not looking for a drag car (there are no drag strips within 200 miles of me anyway). I simply want "respectable" acceleration - respectable meaning that the car will at least keep up with mainstream cars such as Camrys, Accords, etc, and will outrun stock (or even modified) econoshiznitboxes.

I also want to keep the car very drivable. By very drivable I mean that the A/C must function and the car must be reliable enough to drive 600 miles on a whim.

I've narrowed it down to three scenarios:

1) I've got an '88 5.0 Thunderbird with a great body and an '87 Turbo Coupe with a rusted shell. The TC is a 5-speed with 120k miles on it. Scenario 1 involves freshening the 2.3 turbo without doing a full-tilt rebuild (honing the cylinders, new rings, bearings, valve job, gaskets, etc) and swapping it into the V8 'Bird. Since I'm already planning on installing the TC's hood, header, rear end and interior I'd essentially be making a TC clone. I would add some minor modifications to bring the power up to (or slightly over) stock 5.0 HO levels, such as a Gillis valve, 3" downpipe, free flowing exhaust, etc.

Advantages: I've already got the whole shebang (engine, tranny, wiring) so this would be the cheapest, and with gas at a buck a liter ($3.80/gallon) this would probably be the most frugal long-term choice. Since the '88 is a fairly option free car (no power seats) and it doesn't have the TC stuff like PRC and ABS brakes it would be lighter than a TC as well, so it should perform quite well

Disadvantages: It's a 4-cylinder, turbo or not, and I don't like the sound. Plus I wouldn't get to use my "Chucky mounts".

2) Do the HO/T5 thing. Since the 88's engine is still low mileage (about 65k) I wouldn't get into the bottom end. Just a set of E7 heads, a set of 19lb injectors, HO cam, HO intake, and some minor aftermarket upgrades such as headers, TB, etc. I'd likely stick with speed density because if I go this route I'd have no interest in cranking things up too far (for the reasons listed under "disadvantages")

Advantages: torquier, more reliable and sounds better than a 2.3 turbo, I've already got the foundation, and I'd get to use the Chucky mounts

Disadvantages: Cast, flat top pistons would rule out future upgrades such as a blower, big cam, heads, etc. Plus I'd pretty much have to find a Mustang donor car to get the engine parts plus the T-5 and swap parts. People around here think Mustangs are gold, regardless of condition, and they are priced accordingly.

3) This is the most extreme option, and it may happen eventually regardless of what I decide to do in the short term (it may not happen to this particular car, but it is likely gonna happen). My brother's got a '94 E350 van that is approaching the end of its useful life, and he's promised me the roller 351 that resides within. If I went this route I'd forego EFI and switch to a carb because EFI parts are just too ed expensive. I would go with a dual plane intake, 700cfm carb, and a set of Trick flow heads, aiming for about 350-400 streetable horses.

Advantages: This would obviously be the most powerful option, and of course power is always an advantage. The torque of a built 351 would be nice, and being able to say I've got a 351 in there would be pretty cool, too. And of course, the Chucky mounts.

Disadvantages: No more EFI means sacrificed driveability and the fuel costs would suck. The engine currently has over 400,000 km on it, so it would need a complete rebuild. Finding a 5-speed tranny that would stay together would be an expensive proposition. More weight over the front end would hurt the handling, although this would be offset somewhat by the aluminum heads. And my tripminder wouldn't function anymore.

I'm actually leaning toward the 2.3 swap because this would leave me open to do either of the two other swaps in future. What do y'all think?

man...IMHO its a no brainer...you are allready just about set up for the HO. i know its all over the place here and considered quite "vanilla" and overdone, but out in the real world its just not that common. its easy, and the sky is the limmit. maybe we could even work out some sort of deal for the HO parts i have...who knows. wink wink...
 
the 351 would be sweet, but if it were me, it wouldnt be my thing...
 
TC clone...well, you do have it all already.
 
 
if i remember right though, you had mentioned before that you wouldnt mind a 4.6 DOHC under the hood of your car ;)

I say 5.0 HO upgrade with aftermarket dished pistons added in for future upgrades and such.

I'd stick with the 5.0 option. To do the 2.3 swap, you'd have to go through the hassel of changing all your wiring and whatnot.  The 351 idea is nice but you already pointed out that it wouldn't be that practical. The 5.0 would be the easiest most cut and dry option. Can't go wrong with it and the possibilities of modifications are endless. I also think that would be the most reliable option. Just my :2c:

My vote is for the 2.3 swap, it's the most economical and I doubt you'll be dissapointed by what it can do.

Well, it sounds like you are going to have to do engine work no matter what route you go.  You mention going the 2.3 route "first" and leave the others as an option for later.  Wouldn't you just rather do one engine refresh/rebuild?

With alot of intown driving, the 2.3T loses a bit of it's "economy" bonus.  They can pull down great numbers on the interstate, but alot of stop and go pulls that down quick. 

The wiring part of the 2.3T swap is nothing....you pull one engine harness, you install the other.

How much use is this car going to see?  Type of driving?  What kind of "reliability" issues do you see different between a 2.3T and a 5.0?  Really with regular maintenance there are none. 

You know my choice, but only because I'm just not a V8 guy.

BTW...I do make 86-88 2.3T mounts ;)

If I were in your shoes I would go with the 351w. Especially since this isn't a DD. The carb setup will be much simplier and you'll have all the torque you'll ever need. But then again... I like carbs. :)

id put the ho in, its just easier imo. then i'd probley build up the 2.3 and put it into another tc if the time comes.

Have you ever considered a stroker kit?  With a 331 you could have those extra cubes while still using 5.0 parts for the engine.  You could keep the fuel injection too for better economy and driveability.  A 347 would offer more torque, but some people are leary of the reliability of those.

I voted for #2

Just do it.  Its easy, cheap, they generally sound better than 4 bangers, and guarunteed to be quick and reliable. 

Although I wouldn't cheese out on the bottom end.  Spend the little extra dough for a more solid bottom end so eventually you can put a blower on it (or NOS, if youre "that" kinda guy).  302's are SO cheap to rebuild - I have a total of maybe $600 in mine as of now - including machine work & new stock replacement pistions (no overbore, just a hone) and that includes all parts, machine work, & a fresh valve job.  It's ready to be built @ right around $600!  Additionally, my friend is building a 302 almost identical to mine, but he's going with .030 over TRW forged stock style pistons, built rods, (he plans on a 150 shot) and decked heads and his total is just over $1000, incuding a head job. 

So, in conclusion, I'm down with 5.0/T5, but you might as well build the motor while its out.

I didn't vote Carm.
 
How soon can you get the 351? I think this is the best option. Hell you've got a  load in your suspension, but either a anemic 4 cylinder or a stock HO? Get that 351 soon.
 
And I didn't vote because I would not go with a carb. Simply too old school for me. A 351 efi intake can be had for pretty cheap. Hell you could just buy the lower and get a used cobra upper. A simple tune and you could be running the 351 with the speed density even. Go with the stock t5 for now. Hell it will hold up for a  long time. With no drag strips around I doubt you drop the hammer at 3gs often.

Theres no replacement for displacement

Git 'Er Dun!

You have the time and the money, go all the way or go home. A built to the nuts 2.3 would be cool aswell but 302's are as boring as 350's though`.

d.) EFI 351W

[Dave Chapelle] You’re rich, bitch! [/Dave Chapelle]

Maybe on your early birds but the 87 88 turbo coupe dash harness is its own.  He would aslo have to fish through the ABS and PRC stuff as well.  If he decided to try and go that route.

I voted 2.3.  I've regretted junking my '84 TC with the engine and tranny in place every day since I did it.  I've always stood in awe of the 2.3T and I'll have another one someday. 

Simple reason?  H.O. swap is overdone, 351 with a carb is sort of archaic and that would throw off your F/R weight distribution even worse.  This is a concern because you said how important good handling is to you.

Plus, since your so rich now, you can squeeze 300+ out of the Turbo4 with ease. ;)

I voted based on what I'm planing in my situation. As you know, our situations are very similar.
 
I have a 88 sport sitting in the driveway with the 5.0 and I just got a 87 TC. The TC has a great body while the sport is a rust bucket. I also have a 351W block sitting in the shed. My plan is to keep the 2.3 in the TC (if I can get the power assisted clutch to work) and build the 5.0 or the 351W when I get money. When/If the 2.3 turbo gives me any problems I'll swap in the built motor.
 
If I were in your situation I don't think I would touch the low milage 5.0 but I would leave it in while I build the 2.3, 351W or another 5.0. I would then store the low milage 5.0 for future use. Who knows, you may want to go back to stock someday down the road.

Where did the idea that I was rich come in? :rollin:

Sure, I got that settlement back in December, , but I bought a house and the Volvo, and am doing major renovations to the house. I've got a fair bit of $$ left but certainly not what I'd call "rich", and I don't want to spend it all on the car anyway. I'm looking to spend about $5k on the car, and that includes the paint job that is gonna cost about $1600.

Shame302: I would love a 32-valve modular, but this would involve far more work and money than I want to invest, and trying to find a donor Mark VIII or Cobra would be mission impossible 'round here.

Chuck: The house I bought is 40 miles from the city, so the TC drivetrain's highway efficiency would come in handy. The car is essentially going to be used for "Sunday drives", likely not even seeing rain again if I can help it.

5.0willgo and Claude: Wiring is not a problem. It's what I do :D I would be more than capable of making a complete custom harness if it proved to be too much a pain in the ringpiece to remove the ABS/PRC  from the existing TC harness...


I don't know when that 351 is gonna be available - my brother is notorious for driving his vehicles into the ground. He told me I could have the van when he's ready to junk it, but knowing him the rods will be hanging out the bottom end of the blockand the pistons will be sidways in their bores by that time. The 351 option is a long-range project, one that once I actually get the engine I will pick at over time (and if my LED tail lights and indiglo dash projects are any indication I'll be as old as Tom before it happens) so I suppose it's basically down to either the HO or TC choices, and I'm about 50/50 with each choice.

The TC swap has the major advantage that I've already got the donor car, while the HO route has the advantage that the white car is already set up for it. For the few days I drove the TC I loved the 5-speed aspect and the car felt much more balanced than the V8 car but when I think about it I was not really impressed with the engine itself - it pulled OK, but I did not like the sound (stock lers) - my Dakota sounds sportier. On the other hand I know a Gillis valve and 3" dp (and perhaps even a T3 swap) would wake it up.

Of course, with the HO conversion I suppose could add a set of heads, a cam and an intake even with the stock bottom end as long as I didn't get too stupid with the cam (I believe Tom is [or was] running stock flat-top pistons with his Twisted Wedge heads quite successfully), but then this would also require mass air (no big issue), a larger TB, bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump - the expenses just keep adding up...

---but then again, with the exception of the lower intake, all these parts would transfer over to the 351 down the road...

Oh hell, I think I've made the decision even harder now.

Maybe I'll roll a dice, or pick a card, or flip a coin, or....

i vote for the 5.0



ok IMO why stroke a 302 ? . y not just save that money a get a 351? and build that ?
just my :2c:

Z

FYI Carm, just because you have a S.O 5.0L doesn't rule out upgrading it beyond H.O specs. Especailly if the miles are low. Tom's been running his setup (stock S.O shortblock) for darn well over 4-5 years now, beating the piss out if it at the track and with N20 on top of that with the worst breakage so far being the tranny and the HG's. You can get aftermarket heads that are meant to clear flat top pistons (fairly cheaply in fact) and still allow you to use a big cam. Best of all, you'll have a killer N/A setup as the flat tops will help with the CR.

Because a 5.0 bolts right in with no clearance issues, no custom oil pan required, no custom headers, no extra weight over the front axle, and it will accept any standard 5.0 intake...

...at least those are the reasons I would imagine.

E) 300 I6. :p (well, you DID say you wanted to "steal the idea out from under me"..)

Everyone is worried about the weight of a 351.  Now how much more does one weigh?  Can't be more than 50 pounds if that.  Hell if you put aluminum heads on it that would put it below the SO thats in there now.  And relocate the battery.  That would offset about 30 pounds.

The 351 is the exact same as the 302 block except that it has a taller deck height and more stroke. So the only issue may be it fitting nice, weight would be a very minor difference. I know that with my carbed small block swap Im doing that once i removed the computer, wiring,smog pumps and EVERTHING else that is related to the computer and the smog system i am positive that an aluminum intake /head small block would be a lot less than what was in there for weight to begin with! Good luck with what ever you choose to do. Personally i have no issues with FI vehicles i just cant stand all the wiring and  everywhere you look under the hood. You would be surprized how clean it looks without all of the wires etc. As far as reliability issue that people are talking about regarding carbs...i have never had a carb let me down, they may need some tweeking here and there but they are extremely reliable if you rebuild and take care of when required. The rebuilt kit for my Edelbrock 600cfm was not even 40$ and any monkey can rebuild one of those in a hour and a half and away you go. Just my opinion. Keep in mind i dont care about fuel economy though.

First off NO CARB!!! Only thing around here with a carb, is my old Cobra Jet and the lawn mower....

Claude nailed it... A aluminum headed 351 will weigh within 10-15 lbs of the 5.0 that is in the car now. But thats gonna be a big money project, rebuilding the 351 and buying all the parts...

If you want to make any real NA power with a small block Ford, you're gonna have to ante up for a good set of heads... My reccomendation would be keep the 5.0 and slap a set of Trick Flow heads on it, as they work with the flattops. If you don't want the rumpty rump cam, use a stock HO and a set of 1.7 rockers. For induction go with the GT40/Cobra/Explorer intake. With this setup I'd recomend 24lb inj., 65 mm TB and mass air. A set of 1 5/8" headers, 2 1/2" exaust system and you are set. Yea this is basically my setup, but it out ran a '04 Vett at the 1/8mi drags Sat night by almost half second(8.50s[approx 13.25 1/4] vs 8.90s). This combo will make a solid 325 crank hp and with the 5 speed would produce prob 300 RWH(more than my AOD, TF cammed 5.0) Unfortunatly speed is relative to the amount of money you spend, ultimately the decision is yours.

This is the 7th year beating on mine(been to Carlisle PA five years straight, and Cat Jam in '02), she's taking a lickin' and is still tickin'. Next week I'm going inside it, to hopefully just install a set of main bearings to fix a thrust issue it has(over .100 end play in the crank). Maybe throwing in a 308 from the Blue Bird I sold Warbird, if the crank has serious issues.

Final note...I am absoutly not a fan of the E7 heads(gave a set to the s guy, they need valve job), I'd go with the turbo 2.3 first(but then higher milage 2.3s sometimes have cracks in the exaust valve area). Even the GT40 irons are far better than the E7s, and something like Windsor Jrs. are light years ahead.

I vote for the 5.0 HO,  The swap is easy.  Im a fan of a carb so i would use that as well.  Performance is ieasy to gain in a 5.0 and easier on the wallet that a 351.  For 3k including all machine work I'm pulling 350hp at the wheels with a N/A 5.0, I'm not to familiar with the 2.3  so I really cant comment on the +'s or -'s to them.  I know the 351 can be a power house but the cost is high, and reliablitly is low.

I agree with tom. And even if you dont like the 302, the 351 would be a good start. I honestly dont think that it would make that ig a diffrence.


Get the e7 heads off a v-8 truck or van, upper intake isnt gonna cost that much and a t-5 would be killer.

Just do what tom said. You dont need to be so difficult about it.

A 2.3 wouldnt be bad though.

I do respect your knowledge and experiance but I must argue your point. How could a rebuilt 351 be less reliable. Even with a brand new carb out of the box it will start easy and run like a champ. But if he goes EFI like he should ( ;) ) I could see the 351 being more reliable than say the stroker motors that others have recomended. I know you have read the horror stories about the 347 and the wrist pin being too high into the ring lands.

Only thing my EFI setup cost me over the 302 was the distributor.

Since when does the 351W have reliability issues?

I say 5.0 HO, but I agree with Tom, aluminum heads would be way better, lighter, and you'd get more power out of them to boot.  Trickflow released their 185cc Twisted Wedges which I haven't seen the numbers on, but I know they compete with the AFR 185's quite well.  I think when I get the chance I am going to go the 331 route myself as thesoldan mentioned.  Something about that extra displacement with a near perfect bore to stroke ratio and a good set of aluminum heads is just music to my ears.  And with a Edelbrock or Holley intake manifold is good for about 400BHP from my research. 

Break Down:
331 Srtoker kit from CHP $900.00
Pair of Twisted Wedges  $1200.00
New Cam $600.00
Holley Systemax II Intake Manifold $600.00

Those would be the biggest parts to pay for.  And these are all prices from catalogues and the net, you could probably score a lot of it for way cheaper.  Step up to a high flow fuel system, and MAF and finish of the attention to detail and you have a badass ride.  You could have it done for $4400.00 easy and then get it painted.  Just my idea though, and what I one day hope to have under my hood.

And besides I thought you wanted a tubro-4 Ranger.

P.S. It also makes for badass vanity plates: 331PWRD or 5PT4BRD :grinno:

carbs belong on 2 strokes IMHO...

You guys ain't making this decision any easier - you've all got such good arguments. I'm kinda tipping toward a TFS-headed 5.0, though, after Tom's input...

and a five speed i hopes... ;)

Myself, I'd choose a TFS headed 351w, with lightniong lower/cobra upper, full roller conversion, and a world class T5, and he leaned on it hard for about 3 years, maybe 4, just romping the hell out of it every time he drove it, and he thought he had a main bearing spun, upon teardown, it was a coupla bad cam bearings, but the thing was still making over 400 hp...
The block and heads from it are now in my possesion, waiting for funds to put em back together with a .030 overbore and forged pistons...

So, my vote os for a 351w, with aluminum heads, and a T5, the engine/tranny won't weigh much more than a stock 5.0 SO, and as far as reliability, it's how ya build it, and drive it.
Hope ya make the "right" choice! LOL ;)

ps, you can also stroke that windsor, and put a supercharger on it later, assuming you run an efi setup, if 300-350 hp ain't enough...

wah hoo...stroked 408 windsor with a novi 2k!

Are Chuck and I the only 2.3T proponents?

Nope there's BaXo, and I'm sure BillyF will chime in soon.

Thats my second chioce :dunno:

Well, if I do go the HO route, Brian, you, Chuck, Alex, and the other 2.3 backers can take solace in knowing that the 2.3 will live in another project. I"m not sure if it'll go into a T-Bird, Mustang, Cougar, Ranger, Zephyr, or even a Pinto, but I will be using the engine in something...

Carm I will argue it into the ground.  Go witht the 351!  Man just think of how it will sound with a set of flowmasters and a lopey cam.  shag, pure shag!

Exactly like a 302. They sound almost exactly the same. When I had the quiet dynomax's on, it had a slightly different tone than the 302's. When I went to the flow's, you couldn't tell at all. Except it will be tougher to get a hold of, vibrate more and it won't be a roller (they are extremely hard to find). Yes the 351 is a powerhouse of torque. But after a while I started to miss the smoothness of the 302 and the higher RPM it could turn (not to mention the slightly easier access to the header bolts that constantly came loose). Not to mention that his 5 speed won't live long. I am using a tremec 3550 that I bought brand new when I did the conversion, after about 30,000 miles and 10 1/4 mile passes, it's already on borrowed time (and it's rated to stand up to a 351). If I ever do get my car up again, I'll be going with a 4R70W (and there will probably be something else powering it). Now let's just say that he did find a roller 351W shortblock. Putting out-of box heads on it won't give the gain that he'd get with doing the same on his 5.0 because the late model 5.8's have ENORMOUS satellite, err, I mean piston dishes. So the compression won't be what he'd get with TFS's and the 5.0L flat tops. That leaves 3 other alternatives:

1. get a blower (expensive)

2. get a shortblock from an earlier year (but then it won't be a roller) and get a custom short base circle roller cam made (expensive).

3. get a roller shortblock and either get it rebuilt with higher CR pistons or buy some aluminum heads and get them milled down (that's what I did).

But as you can see, it's not quite as cut and dry as is modding your existing 5.0. The price of parts only puts it about 500.00 above doing a ground up 5.0L build. Everything else is just extra work. But there are going to be some practicality issues. Provided you can get a roller motor, it is a worthwhile swap, and you won't be disappointed. But it will need alittle more maintenence than the 5.0 and there are a couple obstacles to overcome if you want it to be a roller also. So if you're looking to get great power that's easy, cheap and reliable, go with the 5.0.

Did you read the whole thread before posting?

As a matter of fact I did, as this is my 4th post in this thread. What I just posted was merely a reflection of my own experience with this type of decision, not speculation, which is exactly what he's asking for input on. And if I see correctly, I answered your hypothetical question about "how it would sound". It sounds exactly like a 302.

Bill what headers were you using???? I've only re-tighened my BBKs 5-6 times and have never blown a gasket... But I gotta agree the extra clearance of the smaller engine is a big help, especially with the TC ABS MC.

Roller 351 are becomming more common as the 94'-'96 models are starting to come to the end of their life cycle...

I have the BBK 1569 longtubes. They're the "long" BBK 1516's meant for 351W swaps. Besides the py chrome plating, they're of great construction. I used the copper gaskets with the copper silcone sealer (no paper gaskets). You know, now that you mention it, it was 3 years ago when I did that swap, I so guess those engines may be easier to find, but in Canada?

Well Mercoug, you seemed to not speculate that it was impossible for him to find a 351 roller.  But if you had read the thread (wich I guess you did) he has one possibly.

I gotta support Tom on this one as I just did the same basic setup on my own 5.0.  The Trick Flow heads are just about the only 2.02/1.6 valve sized heads that will work with flat tops AND allow you to use a somewhat aggresive cam.  The valvetrain issues of old that were associated with the Trick Flows have been addressed and with proper sized pushrods and valve geometry you won't have a problem.  I went with this setup:  http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp&part=TFS%2DK514%2D350%2D370&N=400098+1011&autoview=sku

I'm very satisfied, especially with the pull it has up top in the RPM range.  Also my fully assembled heads both together in their box weighed almost the same as ONE of the iron E7's I gave away.

Well, after driving the car today the decision was pretty much made for me. There is simply no substitute for good ol' American torque. Even with the SO 5.0 I was quite pleasantly surprised with the strength of the launches. Hit the throttle and BAM! You're moving. Granted, the SO quickly runs out of breath, but for that first 100 feet or so it's exhiliarating.

The 5.0 is gonna get the nod. The 351 may have more potential down the road, but the key words are "down the road", as I don't even have the engine yet. The 2.3 is a decent performer, but having driven a vehicle with similar specs for the past two months (my Volvo has a 2.4-liter, intercooled, turbocharged inline 5 cylinder delivering 190 horses and 243lb-ft torque from 2700-5100 RPM and likely weighs about as much as the Chicken) I can say it's no comparison to a good ol' American V8 (sorry Chuck).

As I said, the 2.3T will find a home, but the T-Bird will have eight cylinders under the hood, as God intended. Who knows - I may even try to find an 87-88 XR7 and build a turbo XR7, just like Ford should have :D I might even get really crazy and install the PRC suspension, ABS, etc, into the Cougar - you know, build it like it would have been built if Ford would have done it themselves. But of course I'm getting ahead of myself. One project at a time...

...now I've just gotta start gathering engine parts...

...in my garage.


For $20.

I voted for a 5.0 HO and T5. Your car already has a 5.0 so why not just modify that. I've always felt that if it came with a 5.0 or 2.3T that each respective engine should just be left in the car and modified. Now if you have a 3.8 you can do what ever you want:hick: . You would probably be very happy with a 5.0 with TFS Twisted Wedge heads and a mild cam.

 paul, that kit sure looks tasty. I may have to look into that alittle bit more.

Just expeirence,  I've seen lots more problems with built 351's than I have with the 302's.  As far as the 347 I wouldn't recommend that.  I'm not particularly fond of stroker motors, granted if done right can be really powerful just like a 351,  I have yet to build a 351 the ones I have seen have had major issues after a performance build I dont know who did the build nor do I know if they did them right.  Maybe my comment was hastey or not thought through.  But my personal opinion is go with the 5.0 HO.:D

I voted for 5.0 T5.  Keep the 2.3 sitting around for when you get into another rich spell and can afford a Factory Five Racer to put it into.

i love the 351w in my 66 omg 2 1/2 inch exhast flows super 40's mild cma, intkae, carb, blanced blueprinted. she soudns so ****ING beautiful, but shes only gonna be liek that for a little longer, once i get it, 408w stroker, paxton novi 2000, demon 850cfm carb, new wilder luinati cam, afr heads, im hopeing that thast all im gonna need for motor, that alone SHOULD HAUL ASS seeing as the 351w does 90 quite easy in 3rd.

Having had a TC and a 5.0 HO conversion (minus heads) I woould definitely vote for option 2. My 2.3 turbo 5 speed only got 19-20 mpg in combined city/hwy driving which is exactly what my 5.0/AOD gets and that's with a non-lock convertor. I'd have to say the HO conversion is a bit quicker than the 2.3T. Although on the hwy the 2.3T would give the 5.0 a run for its money with 15 psi boost.

Definitely go with the 5.0 HO conversion. It's the engine the Sport should've had in the first place as an alternative to the Tubocoupe.

Ok, my brother has just complicated things by telling me he's giving me the van earlier than thought. The tranny is slipping and the brakes are gone, and he's got to get rid of it (neighbours complaining), so I'm getting the roller 351 soon. Now I'm back to square one, decision wise. Do I build the 5.0 only to take it apart to build the 351 later, or do I build the 351 in the first place? And since it has over 300k on it and will definitely need a rebuild, do I do a 390 stroker? ... Good thing I have lots of suspension stuff to keep me busy this season...

Well, as far as the stroker route, you'll more than likely need to bore that windsor, with the mileage you said it has..but you know this, lol
I still think you should go for the 351w, wouldnt' cost that much more to stroke it, than a 5.0
And with bigger holes in it, it'll weight less, too ;)

If I was in your position, I'd not even give it a second thought, far as the 351w is concerned. (but I'm biased, I admit)

Have you heard there is a 427 stroker kit for the 351W? That would be kick ass in a Tbird. You could put those Thunderbird 427 badges from the early 60's on the fenders and smoke the tires alll day long:evilgrin:

Just one word: [SIZE="7"][COLOR="Red"]SWEET![/COLOR][/SIZE]

put a cheby 350 in it and build it rite you could get like 1000 hp and stuff




































just a joke do the 351 thing

Carm, heres what i would do.

I would put together a half decent 5.0. Even if its just doing an HO conversion and some bolt ons. You already have that engine in the car, at the moment, so it wouldnt cost anything to swap since its in there. Do a set of long tubes, set up the exhaust nicely, do the 5-speed swap, bigger brakes, and everything of that nature.

Then while you still have a peppy, fun driver, you can get on that 351, get it ready to go, and once you do, itll only be a matter of swapping engines because youll have the car set up for the 5-speed, youll have the exhaust ready, youll have the bigger brakes, etc etc.

Once the swap is done, you can throw the 5.0 on a stand, and use it for your next project.

As for 351's having more problems...its all in who builds it. If youve got some numbnut who just buys some bearings and rings, slaps it together, calls it build, and doesnt break it in properly, yeah its going to have problems. If its properly build, balanced, blueprinted, and a well assembled combination, itll be a rocket, and itll be durable.

Same thing goes with stroker kits, its all in who builds it and the quality of the kit.

My 2.3L does 90 in third...

"Do the HO/T5 thing. Since the 88's engine is still low mileage (about 65k) I wouldn't get into the bottom end. Just a set of E7 heads, a set of 19lb injectors, HO cam, HO intake, and some minor aftermarket upgrades such as headers, TB, etc. "

The 5.0 in the '88s were SOs.  They had a different firing order than the HOs, so the cam wouldnt work unless you changed the crank and the computer.

I'm doing a 351 Efi swap, and it isn't too hard so far.  The only thing different is the lower manifold and fuel rails, but I still found a gt40 lower for a good price.  Clearence may be an issue, so a hood scoop may be needed.  I'm near done and have spent about $2,300, even with honing and boring.

You're kidding about that changing the crank thing, aren't you? SO-HO upgrades are commonplace round this messageboard, and are very well documented. Yes, you have to change the computer and cam, but the crank doesn't have to go anywhere - SO and HO cranks are identical. With any 4, 6, 8, 10 or 12 cylinder engine, every time a piston is at TDC on the compression stroke, there's another piston at TDC on the exhaust stroke. The HO (or 351) firing order simply changes a few of the TDC's around.

A few truck guy's, after going to HO, just change their plug wires around...DUnno if that'd work for us, but I fail to see why it wouldn't...

And changing the crank, for an HO..:screwy: :bs:

Yes, you do have to change some plug wires around, but that's it. The HO EEC will automatically fire the injectors in the correct order

Hmmm, I thought trucks used the batch firing method?

They do...that's about all I know, that stuff is still a gray area to me as of yet, someone else will have a definite answer though:D

They do. I was referring to the SO-->HO upgrade. When doing a truck you'd need a new harness, as the injectors are wired together in two sets of four.

Mine does 100, the point is how fast it gets there!!! Ahhhh, this is an easy question!

2.3!!!!!!!!!