Or should I say the Americanized Holden Monero dies?
Here's the Article: http://www.gmplanet.com/pontiac/pontiac_gto_discontinued_1_000604.asp
haha...that was quick...
That doesn't surprise me.
A co-worker of mine had a GTO; yellow with an automatic transmission. The car spent more time at the dealer than it did in her driveway. After numerous problems, GM bought it back.
I did love that exhaust note, though. Nice-looking car.
dam, i kinda liked them, expecialy with the 6 speeds. we took one around a test track at a proving ground and it was fun. if i had money i'd have probley bought one.
My friend has an '05 GTO and it is super fun to drive. With 400 horsepower it'll lay rubber down as long as you want it. I never thought the styling was that bad either.
I saw a Pontiac Solstice for the first time on Friday afternoon. That looked like a really nice car. Maybe they'll have more luck with that one.
My buddy also has an '05. Aside from looking like every other Pontiac it's an ok car. I got a kick out of the ass-backwards controls for things like the stereo and the parking brake lever being in the "wrong" spot. I still wouldn't buy one personally.
I'm not a fan of the Solstice at all..then again I'm not a big roadster person.
We knew it was only going to be 3 years when they first came out? How is it a big suprise? They don't meet 2007 crash regs, neither does the Ford GT or Ferrari 575M. My friend John bought a Red 05 6-Speed last summer and it's an awesome car. I actually like the styling. Retro sucks and thank god the GTO concept coming out isn't retro (or so they say...)
Not if done correctly and tastefully IMHO. I am biased on the new Stang and the Challenger concept is very nice as well. There was nothing retro about the GTO. Just the name.
My '69 GTO will always have a special place for me - great memories....
That was the plan from the beginning. Just like the Ford GT. :flip:
The current Monaro platform was set to retire long before the GTO ever showed up. Anyone who has been paying attention knew this. ;)
We'll be seeing another Pontiac Coupe shortly after the Camaro hits the street. Lutz says it will not be a Firebird of any sort, so I think we'll see the GTO again on the Zeta (new Monaro).
I hope they can make it work. Everyone in Europe and Australia loves the Monaro. The Top Gear guys can't say enough good things about it. We Americans just don't know a good car when we see one I guess. We bitch when something "retro" comes out. Then when someone tries to make something new (at least for here in the US) we bitch because the styling is bland. What a fickle bunch we are. :o
We were told by GM that the PLATFORM the GTO was on would be revamped. They just decided to kill it all together.
3 model years, only 45,000 units sold in the first 2, shipping from Australia, changes to meet US emissions, tooling at the plant for GTO specific parts.......Did GM make any money on this?
It all depends on the article you're looking at. I read two different articles in one day stating that the GTO is gone, and the other that the GTO will be on hiatus while the new Monaro is being made new. Yet another that the GTO will be distinctly designed in America to look more Goatish, and also that the GTO will get the same Pontiafication job on a Monaro body, just as before.
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17808
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060221/REG/60221009/1003/newsletter08&refsect=newsletter08
Jim, we certainly do know good cars...we're driving them. ;)
There are too many vehicles available today, and that's the problem. When our cars were new, they stood out because everything else was when you compared apples to apples. Now, everything is more or less on the same playing field. It's far too easy for a unique or "good" car to slip through the cracks. The vehicles that stand out are the ones whose styling is unique unto itself.
And that was not the GTO. Was it a large Cavalier? Was it a sort-of 2-door Grand Prix? Maybe a mix of the two? Sorry, that's not the Pontiac way. Ponchos like to get all up in your grille, shouting from the rooftops about how badass they are. This new GTO never even attempted to do that. The "new" Pontiac is supposedly smoother and stealthier, according to their marketing. Well, the old GTO made no apologies, even claiming to be the 'judge' of other muscle cars. This one didn't even whimper. It deserved all the sales it got, and not one car more.
However...the owners love them, and love their 'stealthy' appearance way more than non-owners. So I guess if someone's happy, that's all that counts. It just didn't line GM's pockets like it should have. Clearly this is a case of misdirection in advertising and subsequently, public opinion.
The old GTO was a Tempest, and there was no shouting from the rooftops coming from that 'tiger'. It was stealth in the beginning. The 'Judge' of other muscle cars didn't come until flashy was the order of the day.
And you just proved it. The public looked back to The Judge for a definition of the GTO, not its true origins as a tire melting grocery getter. When they found the later, they were disappointed.
True enough...however...which version do you think people remember most--the stealthy, or the in-your-face? ;)
Apparently that's not what America wants anymore. And the sales reflected that. Compare a 300 to a GTO...which one do you think the kids would say looks cooler? Right now it's all about the bling, and the GTO came dressed in sweatpants. Those that 'got it', bought it. Everyone else stayed away. The styling had absolutely everything to do with why it tanked.
Sadly, you're right. That doesn't make 'it' right though. :(
*edit*
Funny, the GTO and the Barracuda had the same timeline. Regular a-b car with a monster hidden under the hood. But later, The Judge and 'Cuda persona are all people really remember.
Well...it's not all that people remember...just the most recent thing. Short memory spans down here. ;)
There is a very fine line between sneaking under the radar and not trying hard enough. Name for me, the last muscle car with a rounded, jellybean shape.
Exactly. It's like, something needed to be 'chiseled' on the GTO for it to step out of the Monaro moniker. Muscle cars have sharp, defined, creased lines somewhere on the car. They have a high shoulder, a balanced rear flank, the long hood/short deck layout, and the perfect stance. The GTO had pretty much none of that...it all got refined right out the door. Even just a small hint of sharpness could have possibly salvaged the design.
Official Eric Quote™: "If it don't look good on a poster, it ain't gonna be remembered in the future." ;)
Well, I reemmber the Judge because I had a '69 that looked like the Judge. I spent may hours behind the wheel of that car...
Actually you are wrong. The platform was NEVER going to be revamped. It's a 12 year old platform now and Holden had already announced 06 was it because it wouldn't meet 07 crash standards as a platform. (Remember, the Aussies have ute's and 4-doors and wagons built on this thing, the 2-door came last) It was ALWAYS known (well, since 04 anyway) that there would be no revamping. And there were only 27200 sold in the first 2 years (157xx 04's, 115xx 05's) and not because of poor sales (04's sold 98% up until news of 400HP 05 broke, bringing final tally to 05's intro at 94.5%, 05's have sold 99%) but due to lack of supply. The factory just can't produce anymore of them, and as of June 1st they won't be allowed to by federal law. The current problem GM is having is whether to bring a Ponchod Monaro back over or wait till 08/09 and release one based on a Camaro. They already have a Camaro-based GTO show car built which was supposed to be at the LA Auto Show (GM pulled at the last second for some reason).
Eh just looked like an oversized grand am / gran prix.
I should have chosen my words more carefully. By revamped I had meant that a new/different chassis would be the basis for the GTO.....At least, that's what I had read in a few places
As far as sales figures, the following quote is from this page:http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/jedlicka.aspx?year=2006&make=Pontiac&model=GTO
The quote, of course, refers to the '04 model year
Also :http://www.forbes.com/vehicles/2004/07/13/cx_mf_0713test.html
And another.......http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0502_pontiac_gto/
I can't seem to find much info for the '05 sales figures.....I've heard that they were both higher than '04 AND lower than '04. The above articles and many more like them are the reason I stated sales were poor.
Sales figures are lower (115xx) but that's due to factory shortage. Holden simply couldn't crank out enough of them. Apparrently about 5000 orders got rolled into 06's. That number seems really high until you figure in that in July people found out there would be Orange in 06 so alot of those are voluntary (unlike the 05 Mustang which just didn't have enough cars to meet demand). Interestingly though, my local dealer (Diehl Ford) has 2 GT's and 3 V6's, ALL of which have been here since Thanksgiving, at MSRP. I test drove their Gunmetal/Black GT coupe and the Gunmetal/Red GT Vert. Got a $50 gift card which I used in buying my pick-up truck:D
WOW I'm honored, I actually purchased a newer car that Chuck W thinks is "ok" :hick:
so what lasted longer the GTOor the new thunderbird? :o :flame:
Id rather see the firebird/trans am come back then that "GTO". The challenger looks really good. A nice mix of old an new, the 05+ mustangs just look bland to me. Now if pontiac could so something similar to what dodge is doing with the challenger for a firebird/trans am that would be a pretty nice looking car imho (depending on what year(s) they modeled it after)
I think Pontiac could easily score a major hit if they design a new firebird after the second generation body style from the early 70's.
Like this '72.
(http://i16.ebayimg.com/01/i/05/03/a9/51_1_b.JPG)
I disagree. If we get a Firebird/TA, it should be a modern design. Doing a retro 'bird at this point would give us just another Camaro (remember what the 67-69 Camaro and FB looked like? Pretty much the same relationship the Monaro and GTO has). A retro Camaro and a modern Firebird would keep them from alienating anyone, unlike the new Mustang, which pissed off the retro hating crowd that wanted a new pony.
Ewwww, I had one of thoes Fireturds - it was awful looking - I wouldn't have even driven it if I hadn't gotten it for a bargain off of my aunt. I'll take my '69 GTO back any day of the week.
My brother has a '73 T/A that's almost identical to that photo, except his has the screaming chicken. Under the shaker is a 455 (not a Super Duty but still fun). It's a nice looking car. Still like the looks of his '80 T/A better.
I think the next Firebird should be an evolution from the Gen4. I really think they nailed that shape in 1993 and am really curious as to what it would have evolved into. Let the Camaro and GTO have their heritage, and move the Firebird forward. Either way, Pontiac wins...and let's face it, they need a hit car badly.
Now that would be cool. The new Camaro as that butt-ugly 69 look-a-like and on the same platform a Gen V Firechicken continuing on! I've always loved how the Firebird's just got more advanced every generation. "Revolution" designing instead of "evolution". Think Porsche 911 on the "evolution" and the RX7 for "revolution". Each design was clean-sheet but you still new it was RX7 (low, 2-door, pop-ups, hatch, rotary power:D)
yea the camaro and firebird have always looked alike...but for some reason the firebird always looked better. im not saying just rebadge a new camaro for a firebird but just something modern but some ques from older models.
Reports of the GTO's death are greatly exaggerated! According to GM Vice President Bob Lutz, the Pontiac GTO will return in 2008, alongside the 2008/2009 Chevrolet Camaro. Lutz told AutoWeek at the Geneva Motor Show today that the GTO will share the Zeta architecture with the new Chevrolet Camaro and Holden Monaro. Like the last ill-fated GTO, the 2009 GTO will be engineered jointly by GM in North America and Holden in Australia. Lutz said the new GTO project was only on hold for two months, but has since been revived. Lutz also said the rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform will be used for a new Chevrolet Impala, Monte Carlo, and an all new Buck model called the "Statesman." Lutz said a new El Camino could come by 'putting a Chevrolet face' on a Holden Ute, but that's unlikely at this time. The GTO and related programs, however, are back on "full tilt."
Complete article at Autoweek. http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060302/FREE/60302001&SearchID=73237263668702
Sweet! I hope GM can pull themselves out of this slump they are in. Which really is not a slump when you consider the numbers. They still have the largest share of the North American market at 23.5% whereas Honda has 8.5%. So you hear all the doom and gloom about lost sales and such when they are still #1 in sales and production. Just not with as big a margin as they have had in the past. Ford is #2 with 18.9%. People can spin numbers any way they want though, I suppose.
The problem is, top sales still doesn't equate to a profit. That's the doom and gloom.
The Domestics just have to stew in this shiznit image they spent 30 years working on. It'll take a good decade of above par products to really turn public perception around.