Hey all, just wanted to share my thoughts on open tracking my Cougar. Hope you enjoy.:D
http://www.msrhouston.com/
Got about 30 laps (120miles total or so) down in the Cougar and I was carrying a lot of speed all over the place, it was frickin awesome! This was the most fun I have had in years, well worth the $275 buy-in for a group purchase for a day at Motorsport Ranch in Houston TX. Its simply amazing to finally practice things like cutting apexs, following the correct lines, understeer, oversteer, etc...and I didn't spin out, go off the course, or break anything!
The Cougar was absolutely flying through the turns. My older brother in his 2006 Z06 was shocked to see me keeping him at bay in the corners and cutting such tight lines. He could go 55-ish MPH in the tight turns and I could do a little over 45mph...not bad considering the new Z06 is rolling perfection and my Cougar is a rolling joke. :)
I spanked all the other newbies out there, and all of them were in better cars, they all had to let me pass when the straights came up. Coupla guys rode with me after that for advice, I became an instructor (sort of) after 20 mins of track time!
- 1993-ish 300ZX non turbo, 5-speed
- New Pontiac GTO 6-speed
- New C6 Coupe, 6-speed
- C5 fixed roof coupe, 6-speed
All of those had to get the hell outta my way once the corners came around! At first everyone was looking at the Cougar with a strange face, but after a few laps and after having people waving me by to pass, those strange looks became BIG SMILES. :)
Now I am thinking I need a few more modest modifications, and one crazy one.
Current Setup:
- Stock XR-7 suspension rebuild
- Stock 5.0HO conversion
- KYB GR2 struts, Gas-Adjust shocks
- Kenny brown subs, Kenny's 3-pt STB, stock 2pt G-load brace
- Stock wheels with BFG summer-only tires
- TC rear discs, Mustang front discs
- Mark VII front calipers
- AOD with shift kit and 2000 stall convertor
- rebuilt trac-lok with extra clutches
What I did on the track:
- Added an extra quart of oil to prevent starvation in hard cornering
- Kept AOD in "D"; car stayed in 2nd at WOT and would exit the corners in 3rd as not to upset balance; 2-3 gear change was fast,made up for my lack of power in the straights
- Applied all my apex cutting and line buttstuffysis from the street and games like Grand Tourismo
- Braked early and let my speed carry into the corners
What I wanna do now, to help handling and overall balance:
- 1" Lowering springs at the stock rate or maybe a little firmer
- Increase the stock 7/8" rear swaybar to something more substantial
What I wanna do real soon:
- Dump the AOD and do a T-56 swap. Yeah, I got money burning a hole in my pocket and I'd love to downshift into 2nd next time I go out there. Only problem is I am going back to school full time now and getting the pedals, driveshaft, etc will be harder.
Thanks for reading. And what's up with my car having a 7/8" rear swaybar from the factory? Its the same one on the Mustangs!!! I guess I should be happy, but this really makes my understeer problem a lot harder to fix!!!:mad:
Woot, That made me ancy reading that post!
Wow...i had no idea that place was so close to me. I looked it up and it's about a 4 1/2 hour drive for me. Once I get some subs welded in im gonna give that a shot!
Drop me an email and I'll have you added to the list of locals who might be interested in running. There simply is no substitute to being in a large group of people who can rent the track for a day, you get SO MUCH more track time its not even funny.
Road track racing is a blast man, I did it in my '88 Mustang LX coupe last year. Had a blast!
Our track here,
(http://www.dunnvilleautodrome.com/pics/dunnvilleautodrome-trackmap-sm2.jpg)
is right in my town and costs $250 and hour. I plan to rent the track this spring and invite everyone I know in the area to attend for a day of fun. (The next NRTCN get together maybe?)
I'd suggest CC plates and a rear bar first. Those should take out a good bit of the understeer.
The increased camber/caster that the CC plates will give you will help the front grab the road (for various reasons).
Once you get more comfortable out there, your brakes will begin to show their weaknesses.
Yeah, I was being real easy on the brakes since I recently spent $400 for new pads and rotors. But the performance friction pads really yanked the car down. NO FADE AT ALL, even after 12 miles of 95-55mph braking. I could have demanded more from the brakes but I was cautious...was a good thing, not depending on the brakes really helped me keep my speed in the corners.
What swaybar would everyone recommend? The only option I see is a 1" bar from a variety of companies, and I am waiting to hear back from a couple of vendors if they are hollow or solid.
I'm not a hollow bar fan: I replaced a hollow rear bar on my 95 LSC for a solid one from a 90 SC, both were the same diameter but the SC bar made my LSC feel like a completely different animal. No hollow bars for me!
I would get the CC plates on the car and set it up with some more positive caster and a more agressive track alignment set-up first. You may find that you don't want to step up in rear bar size.
You might even consider a larger and a smaller bar as "spares". You can see what set-up makes the car faster or more balanced.
I agree with Chuck. Use the camber/caster plates to get your alignment setup in a fashon that will allow you to have a greater contact patch in the turns. That will get rid of a great deal of understeer.
I think you guys are right on the CC plates...my tires are getting cupped too. Looks like a good birthday present for myself.
I contacted Hellwig for their rear swaybar, they have a 1" solid rear bar. It's not hollow like the 1" Cobra rear bar. I think that just might be perfect for my combo too.
If that Hellwig bar is not adjustable...you might try looking for a take-off from a 94-04 GT or Cobra. There were 24 & 25mm solid bars available on them. The Cobras got the 26-27mm hollow gars which were replaced by the solid 25mm's. They bolt right up.
Now I'm gonna sound stupid: what's an adjustable swaybar? All it does is bolt to the lower control arms, right?
I'm leaning to the hellwig bar simply because I know its 1" (25mm) and its solid. I'm having a hard time finding SN-95 swaybars around here, and I don't wanna wind up with the wrong bar because the seller doesn't know what it is.
Adjustable means you can adjust the preload on it changing the "effective" size.
Oh, that's cool. I'd like one of those...definitely gonna do more research on which bar I want. After I quit my job and go back to that whole "career college student" thing. ;)
Thanks again for your help, Chuck.:)
Man, that sounded like a blast! We have very close set ups. I would be careful about increasing front roll stiffness with a bigger front bar. You could actually make your understeer problem worse. I have the Turbocoupe monster 1 5/16 bar in front and camber plates with 2.5 degrees negative camber dialed in and I still understeer on corner entry. My next step is to increase rear roll stiffness by adding my Suspension Techniques springs (much stiffer than stock TC springs) and some Koni reds and then maybe an adjustable rear bar like the one from Steeda (http://www.steeda.com/). I don't know if that Steeda bar will work on our cars though. It will if the frame rails are the same distance apart as the Mustang but I've never measured. Also I plan on experimenting with some smaller front bars. I wish I had access to a skid pad!
By the way. I'm up in the DFW area. I wonder how many other Texans there are on this board.
Oh yeah, one more thing. I noticed you mentioned wanting to lower your car. I'll be selling my cut Turbocoupe springs soon. I recently scored some Suspension Techniques springs. Anyway the cut TC springs are installed in this picture so you can see the ride height they provide. They dont rub at all either. E-mail me if your interested. dogcharmer69@hotmail.com
Hey nice to meet ya! Yup, we have the same problem. My XR-7 came with the Turbo Coupe bar and its a understeering monster. The rear bar is the same for our cars and 87-93 5.0 Mustangs. The control arms are in the same place, so the Steeda part should work nicely. Me thinks me really want that steeda bar.
When I lower the car I will go with http://www.coilsprings.com to make me a set of stock rate springs with a 1" or more drop. They made a set for our 1978 Lincoln Mark V (2" drop) and they were absolutely perfect. No loss in ride (same rate), much better handling.
(http://blizzard.he.net/~foxbody/pics/ourcars/78lincmarkvSMSWEET4web.jpg)
Give me an email sometime, I can add you to the list if you are ever interested in coming down for an event. There is also an MSR track near Ft. Worth, right up your alley.
Here's a pic!
The Cougar is putting the hurt on a new 6-speed GTO. The GTO would do about 115 in the straights, I would do 90...so he would catch up in the beginning...but after a lap or two my corner-carvin' Cougar would make him disappear.
Though this track is definitely about high horsepower, it has enough curves to keep a smart Fox-body guy ahead of most anything else. ;)
I so Envy you.
Trust me it is the driver of that GTO, not the car that made it slow in the turns. Very cool to go road racing in a big car like ours!
James
Of course, but I'm all about blowing away people's notions of what a fast car is. :p Though the GTO is pretty soft in the corners, I was expecting more roll control when I rode shotgun in it.
Doesn't matter what you drive, its HOW you drive. I couldn't beat a GTO, C6, C5 and the others if a talented driver was drivin' them!
Its cool seeing cars like ours go around the track like that.
Nice Mark V by the way, makes me want one even more now.
I can't stand the looks of those cars, pure ugliness but somehow yours is fornicateing awesome!! Start another thread and post some pics!!
James
LOL, how can you not love the funk-a-licious lines of a Mark V? Its right up there with the Viper when it comes to stunning American vehicle design.
(http://blizzard.he.net/~foxbody/pics/ourcars/78lincmarkvSM5.jpg)
I have a small webpage dedicated to the car, take a looksy. ;)
http://blizzard.he.net/~foxbody/mymarkv.html
That thing looks pretty sweet with the vinyl roof and yanked off. Makes it look slick. Good job man. However I think my grandpa's '68 Coupe Deville convertible has you beat in sheer girth. His has the 472 (i think) in it but its about as fast as a Ford Festiva with two spark plug wires removed. I've always wanted a luxo barge all done up on 18's or 20's as a cruiser. My first car was a hand me down '81 Olds 98 four door so I kinda have a soft spot for barges.
Nope, those 60s Lincolns and Caddies are smaller. 230in length for the Mark V and 223 for the 1968 Caddies. That Caddy is a compact, can't even shadow an Excursion. ;)
Ya got be beat on displacement, though. ;)
I agree, my 93 mark (sensor lowered, SC swaybars, poly bushings) can cut corners with less roll than my '04 GTO. The GTO has a high center of gravity, it's not as low, wide and flat as the mark, not to mention the shorter wheelbase.
oooo.. I so need to find a track in MI that does test and tune days. or at least go do some cones sometime soon (grumble grumble, need money for a car). that looks like a blast.
I'd love to weigh my grandpas Caddy. Any idea what your curb weight is? Whats scary is thats its a coupe but longer than a lot of full-size pickups. Had a lot of lux for '68 too. A couple of my buddies have late 70's Lincolns one of which is lime green (in and out) four door with the factory CB, a 460, and low miles. The other is a Mark like yours except a dark blue color and a 400 2bbl (talk about a dog).
4650 for my Mark (well before the aluminum heads and de-smogging) but I'd assume yours is about the same. Maybe 4500 or so. The 60s cars had more solid metal parts, but they were smaller, had thinner bumpers and no smog equipment. ;)
Hey since you mention it, my 95 LSC has a SC rear bar and it really made the car handle flat. Best $15 I spent in my life. Gotta do something about my loose front shocks, but the air springs don't leak yet so I can't replace them!:D