Does anyone think it would be possible to graft that big hunk of metal into the roof of a car?
Title: Moonroof
Post by: shame302 on December 30, 2005, 12:52:23 PM
nice find ;) they still have too be supported and i dont think the standard roof had the support. ive never had the headliner off of a non moonroof car though....
does anyone know where too get new weatherstrip/seals for those btw?
Title: Moonroof
Post by: EricCoolCats on December 30, 2005, 12:59:03 PM
Holy moley...wow...I really think you can do that. That has the complete metal support frame and everything. I can't remember if it needs to be pop-riveted or screwed to the roof frame. Regardless...I think that would be roughly everything major needed to do it. Just cut the hole, get the motor, wire it up...wow. You would need the overhead console from a moonroof car, and the shorter sun visors, and a new headliner. Hmmm....
Title: Moonroof
Post by: Cougars 2 go on December 30, 2005, 01:08:12 PM
My factory moonroof glass does not have the same measurements, each dimension is a few inches larger than what he described. Any MN-12 folks out there with a factory moonroof that can measure it for us? I don't see how the 87-88 moonroof can be the same as the 89-91 moonroof for the Bird/Cougar. I can see it for the Mark because that didn't change.
Title: Moonroof
Post by: Thunder Chicken on December 30, 2005, 01:14:06 PM
I think you'd be better off changing the whole roof for one originally equipped with one - the roofs on these cars are removable (and replaceable), y'know. They're not easily removable, but they are removable. I think Gunkel04 did it...
Title: Moonroof
Post by: EricCoolCats on December 30, 2005, 01:47:51 PM
Now that I reviewed the auction again...that may be for the MN12 platform. You'd probably need some measurements from an MN12, and better measurements from the seller, before making a decision on that. I do know that 1987-88 Cougars/T-Birds had the same moonroof as the 1987?-92 Mark VII. The MN12 cars, the Mark VIII, and the Taurus/Sable/Continental all had the same style glass. Not sure about the Town Car/Grand Marquis/Crown Vic.
Title: Moonroof
Post by: Cougars 2 go on December 30, 2005, 02:08:59 PM
Quote from: shame302
nice find ;) they still have too be supported and i dont think the standard roof had the support. ive never had the headliner off of a non moonroof car though....
does anyone know where too get new weatherstrip/seals for those btw?
This sucks because I thought I had a better, all-inclusive picture of the roof but this is all I can find:
Title: Moonroof
Post by: shame302 on December 30, 2005, 04:01:02 PM
if it is the newer style and it could be used, arent they a better moonroof? i know the one in my mark viii was 10 times better than the one in my tbird. it was mostely just the motors im sure but it worked much faster......
Title: Moonroof
Post by: P71 on December 30, 2005, 07:16:08 PM
The 89-95 SHOs used the same roof as the Birds/Cougs, and that is not it. You have to replace the entire roof support section, and it's porbably easier to just hack the whole roof. Be careful though, I've already had to send 3 TC's to early graves over major chassis issues with hacked aftermarket sunroof jobs.
Title: Moonroof
Post by: gunkel04 on December 30, 2005, 08:49:10 PM
I will measure mine tomorrow, but at the very least, you would also need the roof skin as it is "rolled" or formed around the edges for the glass seal. I suppose you could weld in a strip of metal and mud in the edges, but this would be pretty time consuming. If I remember correctly, when I did mine, the inside roof structure seemed the same, the rigidity came from the size of the module being so close to the edges, and being spot welded in place. Still a good deal if it is the same unit, and if the glass seal is not dry rotted from storage.
Title: Moonroof
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on December 30, 2005, 10:59:10 PM
Wow people wanting moon roofs and i hate mine in the t/c...
easier to chage the whole roof panel. I will be doing this in the future to a non moonroof skin.
Title: Moonroof
Post by: Mercoug302 on January 01, 2006, 11:06:02 AM
I believe that the metal support brackets are different between the MN-12's and the fox's (MN-12's being wider, and due to the fact that the moonroof ties both sides of the roof together). However I can tell you that the glass is the same between cars. The moonroof glass in my '93 mark (built in mid 1992) is exactly the same as what's on my 1988 XR7.
Title: Moonroof
Post by: MexCougar on January 01, 2006, 03:55:10 PM
I hate mine in the Explorer, doesn`t open completely, only tilts and leaks every time i wash it...
Title: Moonroof
Post by: Pressure cooked chicken on January 01, 2006, 07:57:22 PM
Quote from: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87
Wow people wanting moon roofs and i hate mine in the t/c...
easier to chage the whole roof panel. I will be doing this in the future to a non moonroof skin.
AMEN to that!! i have often thought about replacing the roof on my non functioning moonroof tc. i don't care whether the stupid thing opens or not, i'm just sick of all the wind noise. doesn't seem to leak water though "rant off":bricks1:
Title: Moonroof
Post by: cougarcragar on January 03, 2006, 02:01:22 PM
I love moonroofs. There's just something about being able to look up and see the sky.
What about the drainage channels in the a-pillars? Do they exist only with moonroof-equipped cars from the factory?
Title: Moonroof
Post by: EricCoolCats on January 03, 2006, 02:07:49 PM
Quote
I love moonroofs. There's just something about being able to look up and see the sky.
Agreed...a very few select people have the "really big power moonroof" option. ;)
The drainage tubes can be manually run, no biggie. Just use windshield washer fluid tubing from the parts store. The tubes were used in both sunroof and moonroof cars. They run from the perimeter ring around the sun/moon glass, then on the roof panel above the B-pillar, then run straight down to a factory body grommet directly below the rear quarter glass.
Title: Moonroof
Post by: Ether947 on January 03, 2006, 02:48:52 PM
what the 'ell is the diff between a moonroof and a sunroof? either way, t-tops own them both :)
Title: Moonroof
Post by: EricCoolCats on January 03, 2006, 03:01:18 PM
T-tops...okay. ;)
A sunroof is a non-electrically opening piece of glass. All of them flip open at the back; most are removable (factory and aftermarket).
A moonroof is opened by a motor. On most higher-end vehicles, the glass slides back into the roof (between the metal and the headliner). This requires a lower headliner and also takes away from headroom. A few imports have glass that slides over the roof, which is cheaper to produce but also intrudes less upon interior headroom. Occasionally, and this is going back 15 years or so, a moonroof could be made of not glass but metal, and painted body color, but that was mostly imports (BMW comes to mind).
So...flip up only, sunroof. Motor, moonroof.
Title: Moonroof
Post by: jkirchman on January 03, 2006, 03:10:08 PM
Okay that is not the story I have heard in the past. I found some information about what I thought the difference was:
Quote
Back in the days of Yore, when the air was clean and shag was dirty there were two types of cars, open cars and closed cars.
People who bought open cars were sporty types that liked wind in the hair, bugs in the teeth and all that. People that drove closed cars knew that into each life a little rain must fall and having an open top in a rainstorm is not fun. People that drove open cars thought that people that drove closed cars were in a word, boring.
The people who drove closed cars didn't like being boring so they went to the car makers and said, "Give us something to make our closed cars not so boring." The car makers came up with a sliding metal panel which they called a sunroof. They said to the closed car crowd "Look you can crank this handle and lo you will have an open car [sort of] you will no longer be boring, you will be the envy of the closed car crowd"
Soon sunroofs were selling like hot cakes, and everybody had one. Now the avant-garde of the closed car crowd went back to the car makers and said "Even the most boring closed car guy has a sunroof now we need something better."
So the car makers went back and replaced the solid metal panel that sides back into the roof with a tinted tempered glass panel that opens and closed like it's metal cousin, but also has a sun shade that pulls closed when you don't want the light to come in and a tilting function that will kick up the back edge of the moveable panel about 1" above the roof for those in-between times when you want a little ventilation, but not a lot. [very handy when parking the car on a hot day will allow hot air to escape.]
And the car makers said the the closed car crowd "Look here is the best thing since sliced bread. We call it a moonroof."
"Why a moonroof the masses asked?"
"Because you can slide the shade open and see the moon." came the reply. "Also we can't call it a sunroof, because that is the name of that boring metal panel, this is an exciting GLASS panel."
And there was joy among the closed car crowd.
The open car crowd just laughed under their breath because they knew that there was no substitute for an open car.
So sunroofs are the metal panels and moonroofs are the glass ones. :raspberry
Title: Moonroof
Post by: Ether947 on January 03, 2006, 03:37:36 PM
:laughing: lol, thanks. :D
Title: Moonroof
Post by: EricCoolCats on January 03, 2006, 04:33:51 PM
OK Jim. ;) Sunroofs may have started out as metal but in the modern era they are almost exclusively glass. Glass is cheaper to produce, plus it won't need painted like a metal panel.
Title: Moonroof
Post by: jkirchman on January 03, 2006, 05:18:02 PM
Title: Moonroof
Post by: gunkel04 on January 03, 2006, 06:23:04 PM
Now on the 07' Ford "edge" and the 08' lincoln MNX, the "sunroof" or "moonroof" is now called the panoramic roof as it has two opening's. The one in the front is large, and the glass and shade operate like a standard moonroof, the one in the rear is smaller, and only the shade moves back and forth, the glass is stationary.
Title: Moonroof
Post by: EricCoolCats on January 03, 2006, 07:55:12 PM
OK, I dug out all of my Cougar brochures from 1983-2002. This is exactly how Ford described the hole in the roof, by model year:
1983: FLIP-UP OPEN AIR ROOF. Easy-to-use feature filters in moonlight or sunlight year-round. Pop open for freah air whenever you want it. Or remove the glass completely for open air driving. 1984: Roof, flip up open air 1985: None listed in my brochure, printed 7/84 1986: Power moonroof (not believed to have made production) 1987: None listed in my brochure, printed 8/86 (most likely due to a slightly late production timeframe of 11/86) 1988: Power moonroof 1989-97: Power slide/tilt moonroof with sunshade 1999: Power tilt/slide moonroof (inconclusive from photo) 2000-01: Power tilt/slide moonroof (solid metal panel pictured) 2002: SUNROOF - Power tilt/slide sunroof (solid metal roof panel pictured)
Obviously Ford had some sort of identity crisis going on with the descriptions and products. :) Again, it is typical for smaller or imported cars to have a solid metal roof but that is technically not a sunroof if it is power operated...it then becomes a moonroof, whether it has glass or metal. It is also possible that the New Edge Cougars had both glass and metal available at some point, or perhaps the glass roof was aftermarket only. The NECO site was down a little bit ago so I couldn't check.
Title: Moonroof
Post by: tbirdscott on January 03, 2006, 09:28:28 PM
Just to continue I pulled out a few of my old ones
1980-81-82 Flip-Up Open Air Roof. Flip it up part way for ventilation. Remove it completely fot the open air feeling of a convertible 1979 Power Moonroof treats you to the "open air" feeling 1978 power Moonroof. Your window to the sky
And just to make it confusing
1975 Power-Operated Glass Moonroof AND Power-Operated Sunroof available
Also just realised I dont hava a 1985 brochure:mad: gonna have to go find one now...
Title: Moonroof
Post by: shame302 on January 03, 2006, 10:02:50 PM
huh...lol. i always thought of a moonroof as a power retracting unit reguardless of what it was made of and a sunroof as a manually tilting peice of glass weather or not it was removeable....
Title: Moonroof
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on January 03, 2006, 11:54:26 PM
Quote from: cougarcragar
I love moonroofs. There's just something about being able to look up and see the sky.
What about the drainage channels in the a-pillars? Do they exist only with moonroof-equipped cars from the factory?
my 87 has large drainage tray on the lower side of the roof. and 3/8-1/2 id drin tubes that run into the rear quarter panels.
Title: Moonroof
Post by: cougarcragar on January 04, 2006, 02:05:10 PM
I'd like to add to this discussion, as I've studied sun/moonroofs for several years now.
Sunroof: A sunroof which can be electric or manual, glass or painted steel. It can flip up to vent, be removed, or opened by sliding back over the roof (spoiler or topslider). Think of the newer Cougars, Cavalier/Sunfire, Probe (topslider).
Moonroof: A sunroof which can be electric or manual, glass or painted steel. It can flip up to vent, but retracts under the roof when opened. It's also known as an inbuilt sunroof.
Trust me, I've done a LOT of research on this.
Title: Moonroof
Post by: Thunder Chicken on January 04, 2006, 02:42:53 PM
...Except that Saturn used to market their topslider as a moonroof
I can't believe so much energy has been spent on deciding the difference between a moonroof and a sunroof :rollin:
Title: Moonroof
Post by: EricCoolCats on January 04, 2006, 03:27:12 PM
Quote
I can't believe so much energy has been spent on deciding the difference between a moonroof and a sunroof
I can't believe the collective auto industry hasn't figured out what to call them in the first place so we'd KNOW which is which!
Title: Moonroof
Post by: cougarcragar on January 04, 2006, 05:04:18 PM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken
...Except that Saturn used to market their topslider as a moonroof
Saturn sucks.
:D
Title: Moonroof
Post by: blu84302 on January 07, 2006, 06:17:11 AM
So i'm lost... My old 86 had a flip up take off glass. I called it a moonroof. But, it didn't slide move above or below the roof so what's up with that? Anyway, it leaked, and broke, was jb welded a few times and finally duct taped shut, only to be unsealed when i locked my keys in it and climbed in through the top.