Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: 460 turbo truck on November 24, 2005, 07:49:17 AM

Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: 460 turbo truck on November 24, 2005, 07:49:17 AM
if i don't get some notes on what to do with this slow POS, i'm gonna boost it...

i wa thinking just a cam or so,

i don't really know

i just glanced over some thing about using an MSD box, you should increase plug gap ??

i'm running the MSD 6a in my 89 mustang,  all stock  minus the MSD box, and a lowes made cold air intake
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: Nate on November 24, 2005, 11:40:39 AM
i think your gonna have to boost it. i knew a guy in a auto vert 4banger mustang and it was slower than my hyundia accent. then again, he was probley border line retarded... anyway i cant see many things that you can do and still obtain alot of power for the ease of finding a junkyard turbo car and swap'n the parts.
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: shame302 on November 24, 2005, 11:48:03 AM
yeah. the 2.3 in my ranger is very similar asside from the newer ignition. its a friggin slug. chances are though, if you want to go boosted you might as well go with a turbo coupe engine with the forged pistons/stouter SB.
 
personally though, the single best mod for that 2.3 would be a 5.0
better to put the time, money and energy into something like that rather than messing around with the 2.3 thats in there. dont know how long it would last with a turbo......
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: Haystack on November 24, 2005, 11:49:20 AM
yeah, boost it or ditch it. I cant think of alot you could do that wouldnt kill gas miliage.
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on November 24, 2005, 11:57:14 AM
want a nice n/a 2.3

have the head cut .150 thou

order up a cam with around 300 deg adv duration

and around .600 lift

port the head

have large valves put in

grab a 390 4 brl carb

and esslinger intake

a long tube header for a pinto


Same combo many dirt track racers use. Now all you have to do is twist it 8,000 rpm :)
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: shame302 on November 24, 2005, 11:58:56 AM
Quote
want a nice n/a 2.3

have the head cut .150 thou

order up a cam with around 300 deg adv duration

and around .600 lift

port the head

have large valves put in

grab a 390 4 brl carb

and esslinger intake

a long tube header for a pinto

cool, at least its an answer to the question. sounds expensive though....
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: 460 turbo truck on November 24, 2005, 12:40:41 PM
i think i forgot to mention that it's an 89 mustang....with EFI, so no replacing carb,

but couldn't i just get a better cam, like a roller cam?

i'm not lookin for 100+ more hp, i'm lookin for 20-30, like cam, gutted upper intake, advacing the camshaft 4* or some thing ?!

ohh, and if i were gonna do a motor swap, i'd probalby just do the 460 swap, and screw the 302's.. but i'm not, i need the milage,

my turbo 4cyl stang gets about 20 MPG, all the while...whoopin butt
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: Nate on November 24, 2005, 12:48:38 PM
well if you look'n for that, you can PORT the upper and lower, gutting it will get u power and no torque, these cars fall on their face at low rpm, i cant immagion without a turbo... power head makes probley the best head for the car, and its just a stock head ported to hell with big valves so im sure a shop can match it pretty close for alot less. that cold air intake should be good for some, and you can get a header for it still and do up a exhaust. that should get u close. maybe a afpr.

edit, you may want to look into gears or 5speed swap for gearing
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: 460 turbo truck on November 24, 2005, 09:54:30 PM
the only reason i want to leave it an automatic.. is cause i'm lazy, and my turbo stang is allready a t-5,

gearing my be an option...

wht gears should i go with ? to maintain gas mileage, and power ??  3.73? 4.10
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on November 24, 2005, 10:02:43 PM
Quote from: 460 turbo truck
the only reason i want to leave it an automatic.. is cause i'm lazy, and my turbo stang is allready a t-5,

gearing my be an option...

wht gears should i go with ? to maintain gas mileage, and power ??  3.73? 4.10




it should have at least a 3.42 in it now. 4.10's with an aod will help.


id say a a237 cam and a long tube header would give you the 30-40 h/p you want and stay somewhat reliable .Maybe swap on a 60mm throttle body and a adj fp regulator.
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: 460 turbo truck on November 25, 2005, 08:53:14 PM
okay, so adjustable fuel pressure regulator, better cam, exhaust header, ported upper and lower, a set of 4.10s

(what axel should i have, a 7.5, or an 8.8? )

and probably a better exhaust,

any one have some links to these things ?

thanks
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on November 25, 2005, 09:01:06 PM
it will have a 7.5
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: Nate on November 25, 2005, 09:36:54 PM
the links to most of the stuff can be found on http://www.turbotbird.com in venders section, im not sure about the headers for the na2.3 tho, the ones i have in mind were made for a turbo. afpr i got from here http://www.jdsperformance.com/
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: Red_LX on November 25, 2005, 09:42:56 PM
Don't mean to piss in your cheerios, man, but I've done the whole 2.3L n/a thing and it's just not worth it.

For starters, you can't put a cam in any n/a 2.3L below a '91 ('89 for the rangers) because they were speed density.

Secondly, bolt ons just don't do anything for the n/a 2.3L (probably because it only has 88 hp)

And third, even trying the usual tricks of upping compression and all that generally do not get you enough power to be worth it.

In my old '90 2.3L mustang, I had a header, exhaust, cold air intake, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, underdrive pulleys, and 3.73's in the rear end (came that way when I bought it). I even did some tricks to reduce weight (pulled sound deadener, put battery in back, ditched AC). Even after all that, it still couldn't get out of its own way, and it was a 5 speed.

Oh, FYI, your car has 3.73's in the rear if its an auto. Also, expect that A4LD to blow up, because it will sooner or later.
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: 460 turbo truck on November 26, 2005, 12:08:33 AM
well, FYI, the tranny's just been rebuilt, so it's not gonna fail, and i'm pretty sure if i do some head work, and up the comp, header and the throttle response kit, and the TB swap, it'll be a little over 100, which is fine,

i just got owned by a rabbit 81, not even a gti,

and i don't see how your saying this is a speed density, there's no mass air flow, or vane meter's on the 2.3 N/A's, 


i haven't seen any under drive pullys for the 2.3's maybe you could fill me in ..

as for timing..i could do the esslinger kit..and gain a few...

i'm not lookin for track times... i'm lookin for a...beat the old lady on the scooter...
if i wanted track times...i'd hop in my 75 dodge with a 400 turboed...or my 89 2.3 turbo stang...

i'm not lookin for top speed, i'm looking for a little more speed..than turtle
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: Red_LX on November 26, 2005, 12:49:33 AM
Quote from: 460 turbo truck
and i don't see how your saying this is a speed density, there's no mass air flow, or vane meter's on the 2.3 N/A's, 


i haven't seen any under drive pullys for the 2.3's maybe you could fill me in ..


No mass air sensor or VAM is what makes it speed density...

Racer walsh sells crank and alternator underdrive pulleys, but the two together cost $95 and really do practically nothing. I didn't even feel any difference on my turbo coupe when I put them on it.

Anyway...well, I suppose if you do all that work you'll get the car up to 100 hp, but it'll still be slower than shiznit, especially with an auto. I think those cars need 150 hp to even be "decent" (i.e. accelerate well enough to merge onto highways and pull hills). You have to remember that this is a near-3000 lb mustang, not a 2000 lb honda.

Oh yeah, and if your tranny was just rebuilt to stock specs, don't be surprised if it does take a dump on you not too long down the road. I'm just speaking based on what I've heard from all the guys with autos over on stangnet and turboford.
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: 460 turbo truck on November 26, 2005, 01:10:14 AM
i don't get it ....

you tell me that i can't put a cam in my mustang, because it's speed density, how is that so ?! ...

and i'm pretty sure that even if i did have probelm with my tranny..i can get it rebuilt for about 200$,
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: Red_LX on November 26, 2005, 01:57:17 AM
I take it you are not familiar with the differences between speed density and MAF/VAM systems?

To put it most simply, if you put any cam other than a stock equivalent into a speed density car, it will run like dog doo. It has something to do with the fact that the computer uses some kind of pre-determined tables for everything, so changing the cam throws that all off, computer goes haywire, car won't idle and runs like . Now, on a mass air car you can change cams at will because the computer can compensate for the difference, but in a speed density car it has no way to deal with it (or something like that)
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: 460 turbo truck on November 26, 2005, 02:03:29 AM
that's what i was asking,

so the car detrmines the values, base on the speed and throttle input to the ECU, as opposed to MAF/VANE setups...where it can tell how much air is coming in....

so N/A motors = bad cam swaps
Boosted motors with vane = good cam swaps
Title: Ultimate 2.3 N/A mods
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on November 26, 2005, 02:04:08 AM
As long as the cam does not have alot of duration or a narrow lobe seperation angle it will be ok in a speed density system.

I would go no bigger then the a234 or a237 

when a cam has  long  duration it kills vaccume and gives the map sensor a signal to richen the mixture wich gives an erratic idle and surging.


the adjustable fpr will help you richen or lean it to some extent.