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Technical => Electrical Tech => Topic started by: sonicbluebird on November 06, 2005, 06:41:39 PM

Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: sonicbluebird on November 06, 2005, 06:41:39 PM
Ok, so I got the car and the previous owner's boyfriend and did some weird wiring under the hood.  My mechanic friend removed it, but now the car wont start, and the brake lamps dont work.  He replaced the ignition lock but that didn't do anything.  The car can be jumped by connecting the battery to the solonoid, but wont stay running. I though it might be the integrated relay control module, but am not sure where it is in the car, if it is even the problem.  Anyone else have a problem like this or know what it could be?
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 06, 2005, 06:49:20 PM
OOHHH Bouy... I assume this is a '87-'88 Turbo Coupe?? (They are the only Birds to have a IRCM). If this is the case I doubt its the problem as it has nothing to do with any light circuit. Possibly you have a bad fuse link or the actual ignition sw may be bad(not the lock).
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: sonicbluebird on November 06, 2005, 06:52:25 PM
My friend checked all the fuses and relays and they were fine, the ignition lock is brand new so it shouldn't be that.  Oh and yes its the wonderful 87 T/C.  Also, what kind of gas mileage do these cars get?
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 06, 2005, 07:04:47 PM
Hang on I'm getting the EVTM(Electrical Vaccum Troubleshooting Manual).. Already have the '86 out...

OK your problem is 99.9% gonna be fuse links that are connected to the starter solenoid. At this point there several fuse links(at least 5) and one of them feeds the headlamp and brakelight circuits. Also there is one that feed power to the computer relay indside the IRCM. Fuse links are not actual fuses, but special gaged wires that feed various circuits. Their purpose is to protect the main wiring harness in the event of a short circuit.
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: sonicbluebird on November 06, 2005, 08:11:24 PM
Thank you so much for the help.  I know some basic electrical stuff, so how can I, what do I need to do fix this?  And where would I find the fuse links at?
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 07, 2005, 03:42:05 AM
The links are rubber coated wires at the battery treminal of the solenoid, probably blue or greenish and should be about 6" long. They usually look just fine, but a gentle pull end to end will tell the story. If its solid likely its OK, but if it springy(rubbery) its bad. You can conferm by reading it with a ohm meter(batt disconnected) or using a test light at each end. Dunno if any of the auto parts stores will carry them, possibly going to be a dealer item.
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: sonicbluebird on November 07, 2005, 11:43:55 AM
I'm going to get the ignition switch replaced at the end of the week.  Also, I have an extra parts car, could I pull the good ones off, if any of that car?
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 07, 2005, 11:22:46 PM
I suppose you could use those.. Do not cut the fuse link itself, but the wire and splice it.

FYI they are color coded as to size wire.

14 Gage Green
16 Gage Black
18 Gage Brown
20 Gage Blue
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: sonicbluebird on November 07, 2005, 11:42:43 PM
Ok, thanks for the help, I'll follow up on how it goes. -Alex
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: sonicbluebird on November 12, 2005, 03:17:33 PM
Ok, switched out the old fuse links with the ones from the parts car.  One had 6 wires attached the other was green with 3 wires, also replaced the ignition switch with a brand new one, turned the key, and .....nothing, no clicks, no accessories, power windows don't work, the power seats do and dome light does, dash doesn't light up either....I now have no clue what the problem could be. Anybody have a wiring diagram they can post, specifically of where the ignition switch goes to?
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: sonicbluebird on November 14, 2005, 02:17:13 PM
somebody?
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 14, 2005, 03:34:18 PM
I have no way to copy my diagrams, as my copier is a fax machine that only takes single pages at a time. If Thunder Chicken doesn't have them, you can probably get some info over here...

http://natomessageboard.com/cgi-bin/Ultimatebb.cgi
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: sonicbluebird on November 17, 2005, 01:10:33 AM
The car is still dead, anyone else ever have this problem or know what it could be?
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: softtouch on November 17, 2005, 07:47:43 PM
From the '84 EVTSM. Probable the same.
(http://users.rcn.com/jroyle/2.3%20Start%20Ckt..jpg)
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: softtouch on November 17, 2005, 07:50:31 PM
(http://users.rcn.com/jroyle/2.3%20Harness.jpg)
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: sonicbluebird on November 17, 2005, 08:16:26 PM
Thank you sooo much, I couldn't find those anywhere. Lets see if I can nail the problem now.  If anyone has had the same problem with the car not starting, please enlighten me with what you did to correct it.
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: sonicbluebird on February 13, 2006, 05:47:03 PM
Car is still dead, anyone have any clue what could be wrong? I think the car did have an alarm, that was removed, what systems would this affect.  Maybe the neutral safety switch?  I'm going nuts.
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: t-bird85 on February 13, 2006, 05:53:32 PM
Neutral safety switch located on the transmission. If its bad car will not start or stay running (if jumped) I dont have a diagram but I do know it is connected into the ignition. They can be bypassed. If the car had an alarm was it remote start? If it was not removed correctly it will not start.
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: Thunder Chicken on February 13, 2006, 07:27:27 PM
The neutral safety switch might prevent the car from turning over, but it would not prevent the car from running if you jumped the solenoid to start it.

Since you've got a bunch of systems down, I'd double check those fusible links as Tom suggested. You may have replaced some, but there are a whole bunch, and if you missed the right one you wouldn't solve your problem.

Below you'll see the "Power Distribution" diagram (if it looks funny it's because it's a composite of three scanned pages). Look over this diagram for the functions that are not working in your car to see what circuits they have in common, and trace them back toward the battery to see which fusible link is the problem:
(http://www.foxthundercats.com/tech/powerdistribution.jpg)
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: sonicbluebird on February 13, 2006, 10:37:25 PM
Ok, thanks for the diagram.  I was going to see if bridging the wires connecting to the neutral safety switch fixed the problem.  Known systems that aren't functioning when i put the key in the ignition are the fuel pump, power windows, dash lights, and there is no clicking sound either.  Headlamps work, power seats work, dome light works.
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: Thunder Chicken on February 13, 2006, 11:08:31 PM
OK, when you replaced your ignition switch, did you replace the switch or the  lock cylinder? The lock cylinder is the thing you stick the key into. The switch is the thing the lock cylinder activates when you turn the key (bolted to the steering column under the plastic shroud). The switches in these cars are notorious for burning up, and your group of malfunctioning components are consistent with a bad switch. The components you listed as working (power seat, lights, dome light) are not controlled by the ignition switch - they have power all the time.

Also, if you did replace the switch, did you check the connector out? When the switch heats up it often melts the connector, and when you replace the switch the connector doesn't make good contact.
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: sonicbluebird on February 14, 2006, 11:43:08 AM
I replaced the switch, the connector was fine, and the previous owner replaced the cylinder, so that system shouldn't be the problem.  How do you tell if the cylinder went bad?  Because when I put the key in, there is no "clicking" sound as I cycle from off to on to start, etc.
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: Thunder Chicken on February 14, 2006, 01:30:56 PM
About the only way to tell would be to remove the column shroud and verify that the rod between the ign cyl and switch is actually moving when you turn the key - the rod may simply have fallen out of place.
 
While you've got the shroud off you could use a test light to verify that the ignition switch is putting power out on the correct wires -
 
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: sonicbluebird on February 21, 2006, 11:15:51 AM
:shoothead
Title: Car wont start, possibly IRCM Module? please help
Post by: Cougar8775 on February 21, 2006, 05:31:52 PM
yes wiring is a nightmare. i know im a mechanic by trade and i absolutly hate having to trace down eletrical gremlins. but by the sounds of things its very possible that the rod for the switch has moved or isn't alighned right. did you check the wires on the harness there at the switch to see if there burnt or melted? since we know these cars are pr0ne to eletrical fires. i bet if the rod is alright that the wires are melted and causing you to blow your fusable links. and once those go its a pain to find the prob again.