General => Lounge => Topic started by: cougarcragar on October 31, 2005, 10:04:03 PM
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: cougarcragar on October 31, 2005, 10:04:03 PM
I have NO idea how this thread will go over on this message board, but I've decided to post it anyway.
What does everyone think of the new Milan? While the styling is somewhat Volkswagen-ish, I can still dig the options. Hell, a five-speed manual can be had with this machine! I think that's great news! It's about time that Ford (or Linc/Merc) offered something else with a third pedal.
Just some things that have been bouncing around in my head...
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: Chuck W on October 31, 2005, 10:23:39 PM
meh
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: Cougars 2 go on October 31, 2005, 10:31:04 PM
That's the kind of uninspiring that's going to lead to Mercury's demise. :toilet:
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: 5.0willgo on October 31, 2005, 10:39:25 PM
:iagree:.....:( If they are trying to make something sporty with the five speed, put it in like a two door not a four door family wagon. Just a modern family truckster, not very exciting.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: Thunder Chicken on October 31, 2005, 10:52:35 PM
I disagree. Ford/Mercury absolutely, postively need to have a hit in the midsize car segment, and from what I've read about that car and the Fusion, they just may well have one. It may look boring, but it's competing against the boring Accord and Camry, and it apparently is worlds above both in terms of driving refinement and sportiness/handling. It's based on the Mazda 6 platform, which is among the best FWD midsize car platforms in the world (and as cool as the 300C/Magnum/Charger are, they do not have the folks at Honda or Toyota worried. Midsize FWD is still the meat and potatoes of the market). And unbelievably, Ford didn't "dumb it down" - they actually improved on it with bigger brakes and some stiffening of the chassis, both improvements that will find their way over to Mazda. Its 220 horse V6 engine option compares well with the puppiesanese offerings, all of which were overrated, power wise. The 6-speed automatic is world class. Mazda currently has a 275-horse turbocharged 4-cyl version of the 6, and I would not be surprised to see that engine turn up in the Ford/Mercury (perhaps as an SVT model). This could very well be the most important car to Ford since the 1986 Taurus.
Would I buy one? Probably not, but I'm single with no kids and have no desire to own a midsize FWD sedan (I do, however, have a strong desire to own a Volvo 850 T5-R wagon, but that's a different matter and a different class of car). Ford is not marketing this car toward people that hang around in message forums dedicated to 20 year old coupes, so to see the members of this forum disappointed at the car would not come as a surprise or a disappointment to Ford. Ford builds a Mustang for guys like us. This car is aimed squarely into the bread and butter of the American market, a market that has been taken over by boring puppiesanese cars. Boring American cars won't win it back (witness the failure of GM's G6 line) but a sedan that looks good (not groundbreaking, but good), drives excellent, matches or beats the competition in terms of sophistication and is priced well certainly has a chance. Time will tell - if you see Ford discounting these cars you'll know they failed.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: EricCoolCats on October 31, 2005, 10:56:40 PM
Well, like it or not, 4-doors are here to stay. At least Ford's putting a little bit of fun and inspiration back into them. Not a lot, just a little. Is it a step in the right direction? Depends on the sales. Judging by the initial advertising push, yes, but time will tell. (BTW, I'm really really REALLY diggin' the hottie in the Mercury commercials. That's one hot tomale right thar.) ;)
I mention the 4-door thing because my folks and I were going somewhere tonight. They wanted to take one car--theirs. I declined and drove separately.
They have a 2002 Cadillac Eldorado ETC. A coupe. One needs to be a contortionist to get into the front seat, let alone the back.
They used to have a 1991 Cadillac Sedan DeVille (4-door) that was much more user friendly.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: Cougars 2 go on October 31, 2005, 11:00:15 PM
If they put all that refinement and excitement underneath, I don't understand why they wrapped it with stodgy and boring.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: Thunder Chicken on October 31, 2005, 11:10:30 PM
Quote from: Cougars 2 go
If they put all that refinement and excitement underneath, I don't understand why they wrapped it with stodgy and boring.
Worked for Honda, Toyota, and Nissan (well, maybe not excitement, but the refinement is certainly there)...
The midsize 4-door market is a market that does not embrace odd or aggressive styling. These are thirtysomething families with children, and a large portion of the buyers are women. An even larger portion of the market has a woman making the decision.
The 300c/Magnum/Charger are differently styled, but a different kind of buyer is buying them. The kind of buyer that says "I wish it had two doors". No four-door Accord or Camry buyer ever said that. They want 4 doors, they want wrong-wheel-drive, they want boring, and they want a car that feels solid, well built, and safe. Tauruses and Impalas did not meet the third set of requirements, and Ford and GM's market share has suffered for it.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: Cougars 2 go on October 31, 2005, 11:25:18 PM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken
Worked for Honda, Toyota, and Nissan (well, maybe not excitement, but the refinement is certainly there)...
The midsize 4-door market is a market that does not embrace odd or aggressive styling. These are thirtysomething families with children, and a large portion of the buyers are women. An even larger portion of the market has a woman making the decision.
The 300c/Magnum/Charger are differently styled, but a different kind of buyer is buying them. The kind of buyer that says "I wish it had two doors". No four-door Accord or Camry buyer ever said that. They want 4 doors, they want wrong-wheel-drive, they want boring, and they want a car that feels solid, well built, and safe. Tauruses and Impalas did not meet the third set of requirements, and Ford and GM's market share has suffered for it.
I thought Honda and Toyota used quality to succeed and Nissan, in my opinion, actually put some effort in styling. Mercury as a line-up has nothing exciting and it can't rely on high quality and resale value history. To me, it's a dead brand and this seems to continue with that trend. It's very disappointing because I don't want to see Mercury follow Oldsmobile.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: mjbtbrd on October 31, 2005, 11:26:30 PM
I will be looking at the fusion /milan. To replace my current boring but efficient 4 door 02 taurus. Not gonna buy for a year or so. I looked at the 500 and did not like it at all. These may be ok though. The 4 door FWD may be boring but it has a purpose and I need this type of car. No fun going out with another couple in a 2 door, nor taking a couple clients to lunch.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: Ifixyawata on October 31, 2005, 11:37:30 PM
I wish I could understand what everyone has against 4-doors.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: Cougars 2 go on October 31, 2005, 11:51:51 PM
Quote from: Ifixyawata
I wish I could understand what everyone has against 4-doors.
Nothing against 4-doors as a category: Current Nissan Altima Last Chrysler Concorde Current Chrysler 300 Current Charger Current Magnum 94-96 Impala Current Infiniti FX Current Mazda6 and Mazdaspeed6
Just the ones that don't do anything different, that don't set a trend, that fill a niche that's already crowded... And that doesn't only apply to 4-doors, there are uninspiring two-doors as well.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: V8Demon on November 01, 2005, 05:35:27 AM
It's not a bad lookin car, but it doesn't stand out. That could be a good thing because then it's not gonna chase a buyer way due to edgy styling.
Saw one on a lot yesterday morning actually and for $26K it has: --a full power moonroof --6 speed AUTOMATIC --3.0 Duratec V6 --17 inch wheels --leather interior --6 cd changer/mp3 player syereo system. And other stuff I can't remember
Looks like it has decent room. I'll be gettin the wife somethin new after the new year. I think the Milan is worthy of further research.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: cougarmonster on November 01, 2005, 06:21:50 AM
Quote
It's very disappointing because I don't want to see Mercury follow Oldsmobile.
Just what did happen to oldsmobile? Have they officially shutdown or something?
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: Cougar8775 on November 01, 2005, 08:44:14 AM
yes they did a couple years back. i think it was 03 was there last year in production.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 01, 2005, 09:02:37 AM
Quote from: Cougar8775
yes they did a couple years back. i think it was 03 was there last year in production.
BTW I believe it was at the end of the '04 run... And Plymouth has been gone for 4-5 years now...
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: 5.0willgo on November 01, 2005, 09:23:39 AM
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against 4 doors. They are perfect for a family and I can understand how more important a 4 door is for a family trying to escape the gas crunch of their old suv. My family has owned many 4 doors and they were great cars.
My problem is that here Mercury is bringing out yet another 4 door. Mercury has gotton rid of it's 2 door cars. Granted they are trying to appeal to families but most families already have a 4 door car or two in their driveway that they are content to keep. They will not win against Toyota and Honda because Mercury is nothing to the owners of those cars. Why would somebody want to buy a boring domestic car when they can buy a boring Accord or Camry that is a proven reliable automobile? Now there are some people where cost is an issue and it would be better for them to "settle" for the Mercury. They probably really want the dependability of the Accord but can't afford it so they look elsewhere.
Mercury needs a 2 door car in their lineup to stay active. Not everyone is out to buy a family sedan. There is a younger audience such as myself who want something "sporty". I would have bought an American car but there was nothing exciting enough to get my appetite. Then there is the older couple who's kids moved out of the house and want to trade in their family sedan for something special just for them. Or what about the married couples that don't want to have kids and a family? Not every family needs a 4 door sedan but if they do, they will likely have one along with the 2 door sports coupe for fun or to escape the family scene for a while.
It is essential for every car company. Ford has to realize that not everyone who wants a 2 door sports car wants a Mustang or who wants an efficient small car wants a Focus. Mazda has a wonderful lineup to fit all tastes. Whether it has 2 doors or 4 doors, their cars have a unique design and are very appealing. GM is turning around IMO. I think that new Impala and the Monte Carlo are awesome. The Cobalt isn't bad either and guess what... you can get one in either a 2 or 4 door.
Now I'm not saying this car is a mistake on Mercury's part, however, if they want to compete against and steal sales from the likes of Toyota and Honda, they better come out with something a little more exciting than this. When you have two options of a highly proven dependable car(Honda) or a questionable dependablility(Milan) and both are boring, I have a feeling most buyers will side with the one that's proven dependable.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: Go Roush on November 01, 2005, 10:28:34 AM
I myself really like the looks of the milan or fusion, and when I get ready to buy my wife a new vehicle I would be more than happy to look into one for her.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: EricCoolCats on November 01, 2005, 10:48:59 AM
Part of the problem is: Ford shattered the "4-door family car" mold with the Taurus in 1986. Now every 4-door owes homage to the Taurus. In essence, they've all become the Taurus. They're all jellybeans, rounded, melted, smoothed, stylish, and of course, practical being 4-doors. Fact is, you can only do so much with the 4-door motif as it is. That's why they all look the same. Coupes can take much more daring stylistic chances because they're really designed for 2 people (with maybe 2-3 more occasionally in the back). The 4-door HAS to cater to at least 4 people. It HAS to have rear headroom and legroom (unless your name is Contour!). It HAS to have a certain roofline to accommodate people in back. It HAS to have a lot of different things simultaneously because it caters to as many people as possible. Coupes are a specialty niche market and will probably always be from now on. Since we're all 2-door owners here, we're spoiled....we think the world should revolve around us. And at one time it did. Those days are long gone and it's a new world; we are the minority. It's very difficult to let go and allow 4-doors to become the norm. We're here for ya, brother. :)
That being said, it doesn't make sense for the Fusion/Milan/Zephyr to have more available horsepower than its flagship brothers, the 500/Montego. That's so contradictory it's not even funny. How does Ford expect to sell any 500's now? That is the main issue here. Ford can at least compete in the real world now, but at the expense of cannibalizing sales from itself. Huh? How did this happen?!
The Fusion/Milan/Zephyr are going after import buyers. That much is certain. Looking down the road they will probably be moderately successful cars, but price and fuel economy are going to be the determining factors. Already the Cobalt is a hit because of pricing, major quality improvements vs. the old Cavalier, and fuel economy. It may be that Ford has a similar situation with these new cars. Personally I see them as just about right for their respective market segments. They seem to do all things well, have great options available, and have a nice road presence. They are substantial cars without being as pretentious as a 500/Montego.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: shame302 on November 01, 2005, 11:08:44 AM
ive never been a fan of the 4 door cars but now id look into one. when we had to get a new car for the wife i was trying her to look into a mark viii. she wasnt having it though. she used to love mine befor i sold it but she now insisted on 4 doors. we ended up getting an 03 alero, basically a grand am gt. it has the v6 and it goes okay, handles pretty good. it was the only one we drove that gould at least get out of its own way. nothing realy exciting though. its at least a little youthfull. not a bad little car and i got it very cheep. all while test driving cars all i could think of was how boring they were. no spirit or personality whatsoever. if i could have afforded to buy new (i refuse to finance) i so would have gotten a new mazda6. what a fun little car...i realy think there needs to be a medium for the dude whos just starting his family. now with 2 kids and a wife a 2 door coupe wasnt gonna cut it. even putting 2 car seats in the tbird sucks and its a decent sized car. id deffinetly consider one...
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: DerikWayne on November 01, 2005, 11:36:05 AM
Quote from: EricCoolCats
(BTW, I'm really really REALLY diggin' the hottie in the Mercury commercials. That's one hot tomale right thar.) ;)
You're not kidding man! I noticed her too! At least Mercury has jumped on the shagual appeal band wagon! :D
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: EricCoolCats on November 01, 2005, 11:40:20 AM
Quote from: derikwayne
You're not kidding man! I noticed her too! At least Mercury has jumped on the shagual appeal band wagon! :D
Big time! One thing I did notice though...out of the 4-5 or so different commercials, she's always got the same outfit on. Did they film all the commercials on the same day or something? Strange. Even stranger to watch her walk across the grass in high heels.
That still does not diminish the hotness though. Ouch. :tg:
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: DerikWayne on November 01, 2005, 11:43:17 AM
Makes ya wanna buy a Mercury she's so hot! lol
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: V8Demon on November 01, 2005, 01:01:07 PM
Quote
Origanlly posted by ERICCOOLCATS: The 4-door HAS to cater to at least 4 people. It HAS to have rear headroom and legroom (unless your name is Contour!). It HAS to have a certain roofline to accommodate people in back. It HAS to have a lot of different things simultaneously because it caters to as many people as possible.
Agreed, but it CAN still look good in the process.......
Also Found this: http://www.mercuryvehicles.com/extras/tvads.asp
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: jkirchman on November 01, 2005, 02:47:52 PM
If Mercury really wants to make an impact in the 4-door sedan market, they should bring back the Topaz.
What a machine. And, since it gets its name from a gemstone, you know it's bad.
Hang on now! that's a picture of a two-door. :)
EDIT: you B@st@rd! you changed the pic on me! LOL
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: jkirchman on November 01, 2005, 02:51:04 PM
Don't know what you're smokin' dude. Looks like 4 doors to me.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: shame302 on November 01, 2005, 03:29:07 PM
id just about kill for a 92 v6 gls 5 speed....the 2 door though. i miss mine so much
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: Thunder Chicken on November 01, 2005, 05:14:34 PM
Quote
That being said, it doesn't make sense for the Fusion/Milan/Zephyr to have more available horsepower than its flagship brothers, the 500/Montego. That's so contradictory it's not even funny. How does Ford expect to sell any 500's now? That is the main issue here. Ford can at least compete in the real world now, but at the expense of cannibalizing sales from itself. Huh? How did this happen?!
I think the 500's power deficit is a temporary situation. Very likely, when the 500 was under development 200 horses was enough, but by the time it made primetime the puppiesanese all upped the ante (thanks to the Altima). As you are no doubt aware, Ford is now working on a 3.5 Duratec in the 250-275 horse range, and I would not be surprised to see the Volvo/Yamaha V8 show up in the 500's mid-life makeover. As for engine choices not making sense, it's not the first time Ford did something stupid like that - witness our own 5.0 SO T-Birds and Cougars. To give the flagship T-Bird/Cougar the SO engine while the much cheaper Mustang got the HO was stupid. To give the pre-88 Mark VII the SO was even stupider.
Essentially it all boils down to one thing - the Fusion/Milan/Zephyr MUST be the success that the 500/Freestyle/Montego wasn't.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: Chuck W on November 01, 2005, 05:37:18 PM
This is what we should have gotten in '86 instead of the Taurus..
It has right wheel drive, and the later versions got a sweet Cosworth mill and a full-time 4wd version was available. Even if they didn't get the Cossie version...imagine the SHO mill in one of these....
Instead they bring it over 2-3 years later and don't support and then wonder why they thrived everywhere else but here in the States.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: EricCoolCats on November 01, 2005, 06:40:26 PM
Quote
As for engine choices not making sense, it's not the first time Ford did something stupid like that - witness our own 5.0 SO T-Birds and Cougars. To give the flagship T-Bird/Cougar the SO engine while the much cheaper Mustang got the HO was stupid.
Agreed...but that was, like, so 20 years ago. Why hasn't Ford learned any horsepower lessons since then, dammit!? When are they going to pull their collective heads out of their backsides and get things RIGHT for a change? Once again, here's a golden opportunity wasted. "Well, we know it's underpowered but we'll fix that later." And then wonder why domestic automakers are losing ground to imports. Ford aims low with horsepower with everything but the Mustang. If they want to compete in the real world, they really ought to start out with higher numbers, don't ya think?! Back when our cars were new, there were lots of reasons (EEC-IV being new, SEFI being new, the gradual transition to all-computer controlled engines, phasing out carburetors, pressures from the insurance industry, new and upcoming government regulations, etc.) why our engines were underpowered. In the era of 300hp family cars, there are no more excuses for Ford.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: turbo88 on November 01, 2005, 07:14:43 PM
Quote from: Cougars 2 go
I thought Honda and Toyota used quality to succeed and Nissan, in my opinion, actually put some effort in styling. Mercury as a line-up has nothing exciting and it can't rely on high quality and resale value history. To me, it's a dead brand and this seems to continue with that trend. It's very disappointing because I don't want to see Mercury follow Oldsmobile.
Toyota does not use quality where would you get that idea? go look at a toyota camry i wonder if any of you guys have noticed it but look at the exhaust pipe hangin UNDERNEATH the suspension, thats right folks underneath, that shows what enginering skills really that are put at work in the camry doesn't it? a friend of mine took a trip down to mexico from Canada, he said thats the last time that he will ever drive that piece of sh*t down there agian due to the fact that his ass got sore after 5 hours. The year before that he took his wifes old taurus and will be taking it agian next time he decides to go down to mexico...
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: EricCoolCats on November 02, 2005, 09:10:29 AM
More goodies on the Fusion: http://www.autoextremist.com/page6.shtml#table
(Be sure to visit before 11/9/05)
The SEMA Fusions are not bad at all. And the commentary about the Fusion--from sales and marketing, to the Zephyr--are perfect.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: Thunder Chicken on November 02, 2005, 10:52:20 AM
Quote from: turbo88
Toyota does not use quality where would you get that idea? go look at a toyota camry i wonder if any of you guys have noticed it but look at the exhaust pipe hangin UNDERNEATH the suspension, thats right folks underneath, that shows what enginering skills really that are put at work in the camry doesn't it? a friend of mine took a trip down to mexico from Canada, he said thats the last time that he will ever drive that piece of sh*t down there agian due to the fact that his ass got sore after 5 hours. The year before that he took his wifes old taurus and will be taking it agian next time he decides to go down to mexico...
Many, if not most, FWD cars with independent rears have the exhaust hanging under the suspension, including Taurus/Sable/Tempo/Topaz and likely most other FWD Fords. In fact, even the MN12's exhaust system dips below the rear suspension. It's a packaging issue - why bother snaking a pipe up and over the suspension when they can pass it under the center, where there are no moving parts? It's not possible in a stick axle car because the axle moves, but with independent suspension you don't have to worry about it and can package things very tightly back there.
And Eric - I agree 100% that Ford has no excuse for being the bottom of the barrel. It almost seems like they're TRYING to be. That and they can't seem to understand that technology and customer's expectations change. In the mid 90's when the Duratec first came out, 200 horses was something to brag about. Trouble for Ford is it isn't 1996 anymore and the rest of the world has moved on. Even GM, with its outdated pushrod engine designs, is laying the smackdown on Ford in the HP wars. GM's new 60-degree 3.9 V6 with VTEC (yes, a GM pushrod engine with VTEC) is smaller, lighter, more effiecient and more powerful than any Ford V6 offering. It produces 240 horses NA - the old 3800 required a supercharger to do that.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: Tbird232ci on November 02, 2005, 11:39:58 AM
Quote from: turbo88
Toyota does not use quality where would you get that idea?
If i had to buy a car based on reliability and quality alone, i would buy a Toyota, why you ask? My friend had a 1988 Toyota 4runner, first year for the V6, it had a 5-speed, 4 wheel drive, and was a nice SUV. What made me like it more, he bought it with 186K on it, and it ran smoother and quieter than my red bird that had 174K on it at the time, had much more power, and got better fuel milage. Then at 212K, it needed a timing belt, idler pulleys, and a clutch. The thing ran even better than before, not a single problem with it, got even better milage, and was a quality piece. It lasted untill i think 236K when he wrecked it.
Not to mention we regularly raced, off roaded, and beat the living shiznit out of that truck. We lifted it 3", put some 33" tires under it, and it was a badass little offroad vehicle with nothing more than the lift and tires, and the lift was just so it would clear the tires.
Doesnt sound like low quality to me...just sounds like your buddy has a sensative tushy, tell him to stay out of gay bars.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: Thunder Chicken on November 02, 2005, 07:51:11 PM
Just read the December Motor Trend and there's a 4-way comparison between the Fusion, Camry, Accord and Sonata. The Fusion did very well, coming in second place behind the Accord (and the Accord is $7k more expensive, so it SHOULD come in first). The really amazing thing, though, is that the Camry came in dead last. Not only did the Fusion beat the Toyota (probably the first time in over 20 years a Ford has beaten a Toyota in a comparison test - proof that Ford got the Fusion right), but even lowly Hyundai emerged victorious over the Camry.
The funny thing is that GM, with its newly redesigned Impala and new G6, was not even invited. I'm surprised Toyota didn't provide an Impala to make itself look good...
And the ironic thing is that the so-called American Comeback Car is built in Mexico while the two puppiesanese and the Korean are all built in the USA. interesting times...
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: Thunder Chicken on November 02, 2005, 08:05:09 PM
...And Shawn - don't think the puppiesanese have exclusive claim to high mileage. My '85 V6 T-bird had 430,000 km (270,000 miles) on it when I traded it (and still ran good for a carbureted 3.8). My first '87 Cherokee had about 400,000 km on it (granted, it was nearly dead, but it was still running), the second Cherokee had over 350k (350k is about where the odometer stopped working), and my current Dakota has 310k and still counting. And if you wanna see some REALLY high mileage, just glance at the odometer of a Caprice or Crown Vic taxicab. I've seen 'em with over 600,000 km and only two years old! The Caprice and Crown Vics are probably the toughest cars ever made, which explains why cops still use 'em.
puppiesanese engines do seem to run forever, I'll give you that, but living in the northeast as you do I'm sure you've noticed that nothing rusts like a puppiesanese car. It's quite common to see late 90's Civics, Toyota trucks & Fourunners, Maximas, etc, with bodies full of holes. My old '90 Nissan 2WD truck was only 5 years old when the whole box had to be replaced due to rust (that same Nissan also had 560k on it when it was sold - original engine and clutch (!), but tranny was rebuilt twice and replaced once) and I sold it because the rear frame had rotted away.
BTW, I've heard from some very reliable sources (including a cousin that works at a Toyota dealership and an industry rep that taught a course I was on) that the older Toyota 3.0 V6 is in the same boat as the older 3.8's - major head gasket problems. Toyota just did a better job of handling the problem. We all know about Ford's legendary "Tough titty" stance on the 3.8 problem...
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: V8Demon on November 03, 2005, 09:08:45 AM
Some more reading: http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=19&article_id=9973
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: turbo88 on November 03, 2005, 09:28:13 PM
Quote from: Tbird232ci
If i had to buy a car based on reliability and quality alone, i would buy a Toyota, why you ask? My friend had a 1988 Toyota 4runner, first year for the V6, it had a 5-speed, 4 wheel drive, and was a nice SUV. What made me like it more, he bought it with 186K on it, and it ran smoother and quieter than my red bird that had 174K on it at the time, had much more power, and got better fuel milage. Then at 212K, it needed a timing belt, idler pulleys, and a clutch. The thing ran even better than before, not a single problem with it, got even better milage, and was a quality piece. It lasted untill i think 236K when he wrecked it.
Not to mention we regularly raced, off roaded, and beat the living shiznit out of that truck. We lifted it 3", put some 33" tires under it, and it was a badass little offroad vehicle with nothing more than the lift and tires, and the lift was just so it would clear the tires.
Doesnt sound like low quality to me...just sounds like your buddy has a sensative tushy, tell him to stay out of gay bars.
a friend of mine had a early 90's 4 runner, he traded it in due to the fact it is such a piece of sh*t, where heading up aroudn mount baker to get some sking time in (not there is only myself,myfriend and 4 skis in the back going up this hill) now this hill was in no meens steep...i was driving and had it flat out going 60 MPH, didnt gain a mile or loss one, now if i was going up that long slightly slopped hill in the turbo bird with myslef and him and the skis in it you can bet i would be doing 120 plus if needed, talk about toyota power.....then not long after the trip he had a ABS sensor go, this anoying red light kept coming on so he goes in to finally see how much it is going to cost and how much work it will take to replace this sensor, they told him the gas tank had to be removed, and it would be a grand total of 500 bucks...wonderful, so he sold it and bought a volvo wagon and hasn't had a problem since...i would never by a toyota camry for a luxury car nor any toyota for that matter there are plenty of far better cars on the market for the money
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: cougarcragar on November 03, 2005, 09:48:37 PM
turbo88:
I love how you generalize an entire car company based on one experience with a vehicle that you didn't even own.
By the way, go ahead and do 120+ on public roads. That's the cool thing to do.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: turbo88 on November 03, 2005, 10:45:36 PM
Quote from: cougarcragar
turbo88:
I love how you generalize an entire car company based on one experience with a vehicle that you didn't even own.
By the way, go ahead and do 120+ on public roads. That's the cool thing to do.
thats not what i ment, no i did not own it and im sure happy i didn't but i sure drove it im just commenting on what a wonderful piece his toyota 4 runner was it certainly wasn't anything to right home about, according to shawn his buddy had one to so why should he be commenting on a toyota 4 runner and basing toyota quality on that? where did i say anything about basing toyota's ""quality"" on a early 90's 4 runner? i simply stated what problems and lack of horsepower my friends 4 runner had.
I simply said that it could i didnt say i would go 120 on a public road..
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: MexCougar on November 03, 2005, 11:39:06 PM
The 4 Runner90-95, expensive, low power, even lower torque, little engine and gas guzzler. I only liked the model body....
Ford Needs a car for real men, i´m tired of seeing those gay´sports, except the Stang, that seems the market of the ford cars are destinated for a newer people "out of..."
Give me some names, of actual Ford cars, that you REALLY want to drive and be Different... like the T-Bird , Mark of Cougar....
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: Tbird232ci on November 04, 2005, 01:13:41 AM
Quote from: turbo88
thats not what i ment, no i did not own it and im sure happy i didn't but i sure drove it im just commenting on what a wonderful piece his toyota 4 runner was it certainly wasn't anything to right home about, according to shawn his buddy had one to so why should he be commenting on a toyota 4 runner and basing toyota quality on that? where did i say anything about basing toyota's ""quality"" on a early 90's 4 runner? i simply stated what problems and lack of horsepower my friends 4 runner had.
I simply said that it could i didnt say i would go 120 on a public road..
I also know many more people with toyota's and have nothing but good things to say about them, but i didnt include any of those statements because i didnt have any first hand experience. My friends 4runner was almost as much mine as it was his, because i drove it quite a bit, i did quite a bit of work to it, and part of him buying it was so we'd be able to lug my bike around when we went to the skate park and whatnot
While your personal experiences with toyota might not be so swell, you gotta think, toyota had to do something right to do as well as they have over the past few years
also, his was an 88, the boxy years, and the first year for the 3.0, which is different from the 90's
while yes, they do rust, his was almost spotless
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: cougarcragar on November 04, 2005, 11:17:17 AM
Quote from: turbo88
i would never by a toyota camry for a luxury car nor any toyota for that matter there are plenty of far better cars on the market for the money
How is that not generalizing?
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: jkirchman on November 04, 2005, 11:26:21 AM
Who cares if he generalized something or not? It's just his opinion. Stop trying to provoke him on it and cause an argument.
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: EricCoolCats on November 04, 2005, 11:53:21 AM
Um....yeah...this was a Milan/Fusion thread...
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: cougarcragar on November 04, 2005, 01:38:40 PM
I'm not trying to provoke anything, Jim. It just gets on my nerves when I read into a 4-page thread I created about a new Mercury vehicle and the last 10 posts are discussing another company (which is a great company - I love Toyota). I suppose this is the old "thread hijack anger" I'm experiencing here.
Since that is now out of the way, I'd like to bring back my original point: While I don't agree with the styling of the new Milan, I think Ford made a great decision in offering a manual transmission. This could be one step towards the fun-to-drive aspect of the Mercury vehicle line. If only they offered the 5-speed with the V6...
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: turbo88 on November 04, 2005, 02:06:24 PM
Let just say if i had a choice between a camry and a millan i would take the millan, thats my opinion...
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: V8Demon on November 04, 2005, 02:19:08 PM
On a side note I went back to the dealer and they said they would give $4500 for the wife's car on trade-in. I told them that we were just looking right now, but would be in the market come December. Nice big trunk and backseat which are good for the stroller, child seat, groceries and of course car parts for the other 2 toys:D
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: jkirchman on November 04, 2005, 02:22:23 PM
Quote
Nice big trunk and backseat which are good for the stroller, child seat, groceries and of course car parts for the other 2 toys.
That's showing your age Paul. Big backseats weren't for strollers and groceries back in the day, now were they? :giggle:
Title: Mercury Milan
Post by: V8Demon on November 04, 2005, 02:31:07 PM
Quote
Big backseats weren't for strollers and groceries back in the day, now were they?
Too true.:D They were used for much more "sporting" activities that eventually are the reasons for strollers and car seats.:giggle: