87 XR with a 5 speed carbed 302 in it.
I have converted to 5 lug wheels,and used the stock 10' drums in the rear.The front end got a set of SVO rotors, and a pair of GT calipers.
Replaced both rear wheel cylinders-darn bleeder screws, and blead out the lines,until I got a hard pedal. Road tested, and the pedal goes to the floor. I had to pump the brake to get any kind of stopping action.
FORD TECH said to install a SVO master cyl,so I ordered one up, and install it.Another quart of fluid later, and i have the same problem.
I have a set of SVO calipers to install on the front, but until I get this sorted out, I dont want to make matters worse.
Do I need a Mustang master cylinder to work with the SVO M/C?
Please, help.........Not sure what to do next!!!!
sounds like you eithe rhave a leak > hardline,rubber hose etc.
or it has air in the system still or is sucking air somewere. or maybe you ran the master dry of fluid? or didnt bench bleed the new one?
on a curious note : what drums and axles did you use on the rear?
Nope, bench blead the M/C, no leakes anywhere!
Ther rear 5 lug set up came from welding the axles up and then re-drilling the 5 lug pattern on the s. Drums are the are the same way.
I'll look at replacing the flex lines on the car. 2 years ago I purchased this car not running,so I don't know if the brakes were working properly then or not.
It's always a hard pedal when the motors is not running!
was the master cylinder a new or remanufactured? and were did it come from?
New M/C from a local undercar parts specialties....bendix......$123.00
I may have found part of the problem....I drilled the drums to accept the 5 lug pattern, and the rear end feel like the wheels are rolling like an egg after they get hot.Maybe a GOOD chance i got the bolt pattern slightly off and that may be some of my pedal pressure problems.After about 15 minutes of driving ,I can smell the rear brakes, so I know they are dragging. I'll try replacing the drums next.
Brake booster leaking?
if that doesnt help i would try bleeding it one more time.
then if it doesnt have a good pedal while running i would return the master and get a new one
ive gotton alot of bad mater cylinders. doing just brake work for 3 yrs and you see alot of it .
Not sure about the booster,but the big FORD kits are replacing the boosters in the Motorsport kits.I have a dual "phram" booser from a 5.0 stang,I'l swap that also to see what happens.If that does not work?????????????????
sleeper....not sure bleeding the system again will make any difference, but I'll run my 3rd quart through it and see what happens.
I'm still leaning toward the booster not up to snuff. i had the same (sorta)problem before with a mustang that I swapped the front brakes from a 5.0 on to a 2.3,and without a booster, could not get a brake pedal to feel right.
The Cougar and "birds' are just a bigger version of the Mustang.
I'll let you know what I find this weekend.............Rev-n.
Id check for leaks again, i had the same problem, i could bleed the brakes for days, start the car, pedal goes to the floor, bleed them again, lots of air
turned out, where the rear hard line meets up with the rubber line, there is a little bracket from the body, well on my car, that rotted out, but the little bracket held the lines in place and made them appear to be in tact
I just got my brakes fixed. Remanufactured MC 65 didnt sound bad. Pedal goes a third of the way to the floor. Improvement. But is that good enough.
So, you bleed the brakes well...and then the pedal goes to the floor during the road test. After the road test, is the pedal hard again? If it is still soft, you either have a bad MC or a leak (as has been suggested). A bad brake booster will never give you a soft pedal. All it does if multiply the force you put on the pedal and "delivers" it to the MC. So, if it goes bad, you'll need much more force to stop the car.
Also, an SVO MC isn't needed when you install an 11" rotor with a 60mm caliper. You'll need the SVO MC when you install the SVO calipers though. (You'll also need a Proportioning Valve to keep from increasing your stopping distance when you slap on the 73mm calipers.)
SVO calipers=Lincoln Mark VII calipers, which have the 73mm piston, so he could have used the lincoln calipers
and the SVO MC with the 5.0 brake booster makes for a very nice combo, regardless of the stock/non stock calipers
I have 73mm caliper I will be using with an adjustable prop valve.i'm still going for the 5.0 booster.
I am not loosing fluid, and do not have air in the lines.with the car off, i have a rock hard pedal,start it up....very soft,but does not go to the floor, just more than my mustangs do.
I join the pack and say you got a bad M/C or a leak. I put three M/C on my 84 T/C before I got a good one. everytime I had soft pedal. The last one I got great pedal. I get real good pedal as soon as I touch it. Ofcorse I did put greade to the bigger 86 Crown vic M/C. Need to get the spindles, calipers ,and rotors. But she stops like never before.
Well,I replaced the booster with one from a 90 5.0 Mustang,adjusted the actuator rod, and road tested......I Got Brakes now!!!!
I'm replacing the stock 60mm calipers with 73 mm from an SVO, and I should be able to stop on a dime.
Thanks all for all your help!!!!!
Cool, glad you got it sorted.
That's the same thing mine does. I ditched the busted ABS master cylinder on my turbo coupe and went to a 1" bore Lincoln Town Car MC & 5.0 Mustang booster, and I put 73mm calipers on the front (kept the stock prop valve since the car is already four wheel disc). When I bleed the brakes I get a nice firm pedal, but when I start the car it gets very soft. The brakes still work quite well (hell I was coming home from work one night and some deer were in the road, and I was surprised at how well the brakes hauled the car down), there's just a lot of travel before it really starts braking and it takes some getting used to.
The only data I've seen shows that putting a 73mm caliper on with stock drums in the rear increases stopping distance.
If you are using the 73mm front caliperswith the rear disks, you really should use the SVO M/C(with the 1 1/8" bore) on the car. The 1" bore works stellar with the 73mm fronts and rear drums (I have used that combo 2-3 times), but it's just not enough for the disk/disk combo.
Well shoot. I was gonna get the SVO MC, but on that 73mm.cjb.net site he says you don't need the SVO master unless you're running 73mm front calipers and upgraded rear calipers (like the cadillac ones you can use with adapter brackets).
Well, maybe I'll try throwing a SVO one in there in the spring, since I can get one for $35 or so.
D'oh...
OK Chuck, make up your mind...:slap:
Duh..brain fart.....
For some reason when I replied the second time I was thinking you had rear drums...:shoothead
Yes, in your case, I would try the SVO master, esp since you have a bit much pedal travel.
Sorry for the mix-up.....
rules of thumb....
too soft of a pedal - too big of a caliper
too hard of a pedal - too big of a master cylinder
you guy are on your own from there.:D
i use a SVO master cylinder, SVO/5.0 brake booster, stock 60mm front calipers (for now), and stock 9" drums in the back. the pedal on my 86 is kind of firm (not like manual brakes, but firm). i did tis for a couple of reasons.
- allows me to upgrade to 73mm calipers alot easier.
- allows me to stay front disk or 4 wheel disk.
- master cylinder give me more room for the engine and adjustable firewall clutch cable.