Why we cant install a 3.8 Supercharged in a Fox Car ? what is the main problem with it?
I know that one of us have a 89 Cougar with the 3.8 SC, but there aren´t info avaible for this swap (uuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhh....). Why none of you have tried ? is not worth ?
Thanks....
(http://teaca.iespana.es/almacen/Cougar.jpg)
302 is easier and cheaper. And the 3.8L SC has a revised HG setup, which is the n/a 3.8L's weak point.
I honestly don't know why more people don't swap SC motors in though, other than cost.
Coil packs compared to a distributer.
Thats the only thing I can think of.
Wiring. Big time. Spazpuppies did the swap (actually his mechanic). It's a nightmare when it comes to wiring.
Years ago I saw a Fox mustang that had a 3.8 SC in it, the wiring looked like a rat's nest (and the car was pretty py too)
The wiring can't be more difficult than anything else. There are folks who could pen 15 up the wiring on a 5.0 swap.....
The reason you don't see more? The same reason you don't see more swaps of anything other than a 5.0's.......people want cheap and easy......
Well its not that hard a swap if u have wrote off SC and u swap everything needed into say a 4 banger stang. (Its been done b4 )
A cool setup is SC motor into a mazda miata.
I seen a GN 3.8 Turbo swaped into a Miata as well. Just sick little setup in that car.
The price to get a used SC motor and everything u need to make it work its easyer to swap in 302 and call it good.
And have done so. :)
Looking at an MN12's SC engine bay, then looking at a Fox engine bay...you see the differences big time. If it was just a matter of grabbing the engine, the harness and computer, and going to town, everyone would be doing this by now. But there is nothing compatible between the cars. You need a
donor car to get a lot of the parts, not just the motor. Therein lies the problem. There was no Fox-specific SC wiring harness, therefore we must cut and hack and splice to get it working. There are just too many technical issues to make it an easy swap like a 302 install.
It's nothing that can't be done if the person takes their time and pays attention to what they're doing.
Like I mentioned folks want cheap and easy.....;)
Can a fox 3.8 engine be reinforced and then supercharged with the SC stuff? Or are they completely different engines.....I have no clue about those engines, so please ignore my ingnorance. :hick:
The 3.8 V6 from 1982-93 had a cast iron block with aluminum heads. The SC block was different...a thicker casting with better webbing to handle the stress of the blower. The aluminum heads were also revised. From 1989-93 I believe the only cars to get that block was the SC and 1989-90 XR7's. From 1994-on, all RWD Ford vehicles got the SC block (not sure about the heads). The means the regular 3.8 V6 Cougar, T-Bird, and Mustang. The FWD 3.8's had their own design. See here for 3.8 info:
http://www.babpen 15s.com/editorial/ar/ar90134.htm
Now i know the 3.8l in the SC is way better built but they still have head gasket troubles,due to lack of maint,to much boost ect,ect and are a real F*** bitch to change due to all the extra parts on the SC.
I just bought a 91 SC for a winter car and am dreading having to do the head gaskets if it comes down to it,also if not caught right away you risk siezing the engine.
Example:look at all the SC's on ebay,your local s yard and in your local trader,you will for surley find ones with blown engines due to head gaskets not caugth in time.
Well here we see a good amount of SC's in the s yards.
Most are there for dead motor or dead SC. Cost here for repairs is way up there.
ABS controler card is worth a 600 used, SC is a 1g no prob and i think it was 2700 from ford for another one.
When u tost the motor thats 4gs plus time to do re and re. Then they say Maybe SC is tost and scared owner just calls it over and ss the car.
ahhh the classic question
bolting a S/C onto an N/A 3.8L is a big no-no for a few reasons. For one, the cast pistons are meant for 9.5:1 compression in most of the 3.8L's, i do believe the earlier 3.8's are lower, i cant remember off of the top of the head. The S/C got forged 8.1:1 compression pistons. The S/C block is actually different, Ford actually moved the cooling jackets around in the block and the heads so that there was more "meat" between the cooling jackets and the combustion chambers. The S/C also got forged rods, crank, and a reinforced block.
Doing the SC to Fox swap is a total bear, not just because of the wiring, but theres so many other things that need to be adapted. You need the sensors, the DIS, you need to make intercooler plumbing, you need to move a lot of the current sensors around in your car. Its no easy task, but it can be done. If you had the time, you could do a very good job on it if you were to cut, lengthen, reroute and relocate the wiring to where it needs to go.
You also have the fun of trying to make the chassis and the EEC harness splice up and work together.
as backwards as it sounds, putting a good flowing exhaust helps reduce risk of blowing headgaskets. As we all know, in most forced induction cars, air temps are higher, even with an intercooler, and that makes combustion temps higher. By having a restrictive exhaust on your car, it creates even more heat then the air is trying to get compressed and pushed out of the cylinder. Opening up the exhaust eases the exhaust flow, and actually does cool the cylinder head temps, which is a big deal in an aluminum head/iron block car
Fact is if u want to get more air into a motor u better make sure u have a way to get the extra out. Dont mater if its turbo, SC, Bottle feed setup or just better head and cam.
Your only as good as what u can get into a motor. Why restrict that with y exhaust
Personally i'd be all over a 3.8 SC swap if I had a six cylinder T-Bird or Cougar and a donor car. Wiring "nightmares" are more of a challenge for me - if you could see some of the things I have come up with for cop cars you'd be amazed. This one cop car (the car I consider to be my greatest achievement) had:
Three radios (Police, CB, Fire/Ambulance)
Two-head radar (for front and rear)
Lidar
18 strobe lights with three six-channel power supplies
8 halogen lights with flashers
Arrow stick
Brake light kill switch
Video system (trunk mounted VCR, dash mounted camera, console mounted monitor and controls with R/F remote control as well)
Electric shotgun rack
A-pillar Spotlights
Three rechargeable flashlights
Front and rear fog lights
Siren
side mounted fog lights (on the partition, to use as alley lights because the car had no light bar)
Cell phone (the old-fashioned, fixed-in-car kind with handsfree kit - the mounties use 'em because of their four watt output)
Laptop computer mount with cellular modem (for CIDS system and GPS) and the associated charging/wiring
...And I'm sure there's more that I've forgotten. The car took me two weeks to build, had a 3" thick wiring harness running down each side of the car, and was (and still is) the single most expensive cop car ever put together for the RCMP in Nova Scotia. The car ended up costing over $50k by the time the labour and parts were added up. Oh yeah - plus $30k for the car itself! It was extremely difficult to hide all that wiring not just for looks, but to ensure that the undesirables in the back don't start ripping it apart. When all was said and done there were 11 antennas in/on this car!!! It looked like a porcupine!
After finishing the car I turned everything on and started the engine, then put an "Amp Clamp" on the 4-gage wire between the alt and batt just to see if the alt could keep up with demand. The 135A 3G alt on that 4.6 was actually chucking out 150 amps at idle! I had the cop sign a liability wavier before letting him take the car, so we wouldn't have to keep buying him alternators. This picture was attached to the wavier:
(http://www.foxthundercats.com/images/42c3current.jpg)
Anyeay, in order to un-derail this thread, after tackling that job I could probably do the 3.8SC-into-Fox wiring with my eyes closed, and make it look like factory. Remeber, when wiring anything - split loom is your friend :crazy:
I really would like to try this swap some time... maybe I'll look into finding a rusted out SC...
You sure that wasn't something from Mad Max!
And I thought my car stereo sucked up alot of juice.
Wiring would be nothing for me either. I've redone many older cars. Wired up auxillary lights. (nothing to shake a stick at thunderchicken but hey..) My biggest thing I'm in the middle of and right on track might I add is a TPI swap into my 73 Nova. Much larger project than this! The biggest problem I could see in doing this swap would be finding information on the donar vehicle. You would definentaly be buying wiring manual on the cars and still be probing every single wire. But I believe it would be a day project for myself.
Heh.. what about stroking a 3.8 SC before putting it in a Fox?
Stroking it would be OK as long as you could get some forged, low compression pistons to fit it. Using stock 4.2 pistons would almost certainly result in disaster
Actually, come to think of it, the 4.2 crank might prove a weak spot as well. The SC crank is forged (I think) while the 4.2 is likely cast or at the very most, nodular. I know they're not very strong - my brother shattered the one in his bone-stock 2000 F150 4X4 about a month ago. It literally blew the front of the block off.