Hi everyone,
This is the first time I've posted here, but since I've been lurking around for such a long time, this all looks the same to me. Anyway, here is my story:
I currently own an 87 Thunderbird LX (6-cyl version). It's been a good car to me, but recently I've been looking for a change...a change for more power. I came across listings on Ebay for Thunder Turbo Coupes. I thought they looked pretty sleak compared to my old bird, and decided to look into them a bit more. I read up that the 4cyl Turbo Charged engine actually had more horsepower than mine! It was also during this period I learned my Engine was only putting out 120 horses, which was a bit surprising. Compared to the Turbo Coupe which not only looks better than my car, but also has approx. 25 more horsepower as well. (I got my stats from a Chilton Carcare Book, so correct me if my Horsepower stats are wrong.)
Anyway, It seemed as if my mind had been made up. I would sell my LX to get a Turbo Coupe. More Horsepower, a better look, and to boot, better Fuel economy! However, I then learned about the 5.0 Liter 302 V-8 Option for the Thunderbird. Apparently that engine was the same used for the Mustangs at the time. Looking up the specs for that version of the car, I found that it had all the Options a Turbo-Coupe had, and even MORE horsepower.
Basically, I want to know what your opinions are on choosing between a Turbo Coupe and a V8? I like the idea of the most possible Power, and from what I have read, the V8 seems to have it. However, I prefer the look of the Turbo Much much more than the Other two styles of the T-birds, and I have heard in some circles that the Turbo Coupe seems more powerful than the V8 does. If you guys can help me choose between the two cars, I would be greatful. What are the major differences between the two cars, and why should I choose one over the other?
Thanks
DMC24guy
Tons of info here: clickie (http://www.coolcats.net/home/)
hmm, to start with the tbirds V8 was not the same as the mustangs. the stang came with the 5.0 HO wheras the tbirds came with the passenger car version of the V8 commonly referred to as the 5.0 SO around here. the HO, having better heads, cam, intake, TB and exaust was rated at 225 hp. the SO was rated at 150 and 155 for the 88.
the turbo coupe had the exterior styling( solid header pannel instead of grille, turbo hood, different lower bumper cover etc..). it also had 190 hp if it was a standard shift car. if it was an automatic it was rated at somewhere around 155 hp. they got about the same gas mileage as the V8.
IMHO, if your going to leave the car stock, id go with the standard shift turbo coupe. they are alot of fun, get decent mileage and handle well too.
otherwise, id try to find a "sport" or a lx/base with a V8 and drop in a HO. its very common, relitivaly easy to do and there is a ton of support here..welcome aboard btw....
Ok then, I have another few questions. How would the 3.8L V6 I have now compare to the Automatic Version of the Turbo Coupe in terms of power? Also, since the Turbo is a 4 cyl car, how much of an effect does running the Air Conditioning have on the performance?
well, i had an lx with the 3.8. i hated it. i never owned an auto turbo coupe personally but i did drive a few. parted one out myself. i think they would pretty much spank the 3.8. generally speaking the turbo coupe handled better and had a much better interior in my opinion anyway. i always preferred having the center console and a floor shift. the turbo and sport seats are alot more comfortable to boot. as far as running the ac, i know the 3.8 realy suffered. im sure theres some lag with the turbo coupe but i doubt its all that bad. again...only speculation ;)
Ok, another probing question....
How does the power of the 5.0L V8 compare to that of the 5speed Turbo Coupe? My main point for starting this thread was to determine whether I should get a Turbo Coupe or V8. I'm trying to get opinions on why one is better over the other.
(I like the idea of having the Automatic Turbo Coupe, but everyone seems to badmouth it. If I knew it had a significant improvement of Horsepower compared to my V6, I would jump all over it)
there is none. the STOCK SO V8 is fine as a daily driver but in terms of performance is somewhat a joke. a 5 speed surbo coupe stock is twice the car a stock v8 tbird is. going from the 3.8 you currently have to a v8 tbird would likely be enough to keep you happy for awhile but a HO conversion would be a nice solution altogether.
if your not one to tinker with your car and dont want a stick than a tbird sport is probably the better way to go. its easy to upgrade/modify if you do decide to. its also simpler/less complicated.
all i can realy say, is open up a want advertiser or auto trader, and get out there and drive a few of them. you will be supprised at how well that little 2.3 goes. the V8 has alot more noticable torque than the auto turbo coupe off the line but once the turbo kicks in youl see what its all about. its pretty neet. id highly recomend giving a standard shift turbo coupe a try ;)
Some other differences not mentioned is that the Turbo Coupe came standard with 16" wheels, four wheel disc, ABS, programmed ride control, and a bunch of other electronic doodads. The fully loaded ones all everything- leather, auto climate control, auto dimming headlights, power antenna, etc. They also had an 8.8 with 3.55 gears for the 5 speed, 3.73's for the auto.
Some problems with the turbo coupe: First, the auto that they put behind the 2.3L turbo was py (A4LD) so you really wanna stick to a 5 speed. Also, with all the electronic gizmos that the turbo coupes had, sometimes problems can be hard to figure out. The master cylinder uses a pump to build pressure in the brakes, and mine went out so I just recently converted to vacuum brakes. Overall my car has been a great car and I like it and it runs great. Although did build a new engine for it (that's in the car now), when i pulled the old engine it still ran great with 145K on it albeit with some blowby and it was leaking oil all over the place.
heh...yeah i was thinking more drive line wise. no matter what, it sounds like your looking for more power. any one of those would be an improvement in that area. a word of caution...you could end up being bitten by the HP bug and theres no lookin back from there ;)
You need to look over the TC real good. The 2.3 are strong but if they weren't taken care of in the turbo department you may end up with a big problem. Mainly replaceing the turbo and that cost $$$.
On the other hand the 5.0 were nice but like stated above they only had a 7.5 axle. Why, don't know.
You could also look into an XR7 Cougar with the 5.0. These did come with the 8.8 axle with traction lock, 10in drums and all the features of the bird just a different look. You may be able to pick one up cheap also.
You need to look into the aftermarket parts before deciding. There is more aftermarket for the 5.0 but will cost more beings you will have two times as many cylindes to feed.
But in the end don't let us decide what car you buy. Get all the info you can and happy hunting for that car of your dreams.
If I had to choose between a stock V8 bird and a stock 4 cylinder Turbo Coupe I would go with the Turbo Coupe. If we are talking modifications I would look for a nice 87-88 cougar XR7 and drop in a 5.0 HO out of a mustang as it would be a basic engine swap.
Or you could take a automatic Turbo Coupe and put a highly modified 5.0 in it like I did.
when it comes to power the 3.8 is a dog. I have two 86 5.0's which are virtally identical to the 87 and 88's. The stock 5.0's arent dogs,... but they are alittle bit lacking. My 5.0's will spin the tires alittle bit and still get around 20 or so MPG overall. I personally have not driven a tc more then once, but every where I look they are expensive as anything. My two 86 5.0's were $110 and $400. Not the best looking cars, but if its a daily driver you wont have too many gripes. The 5.0 is a good strong motor. I have never been stuck to the point that I couldnt get it home in a pinch. Basically the 5.0 will be like a 3.8 with lots more torqe and will seem to have alot more HP. And if you do get the hp bug then it is really easy to only switch some parts out. Like the 5.0 mustang headers, upper intake, throttle body and some others. And the greatest part, is that anyone that dosent know anything aobut tbirds/cougars thinks that its a mustang engine. I say just keep your eye out for a cheap 5.0. That is all that I have been able to find, decently priced. Cheapest turbo coupe that I have found, was about $2500 and it wasent in very good shape. Here are some pics of my cars. Total cost for them was $1060. One is a v-6 by the way, and I feel your pain
here is the link to my "collection" http://foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=3828
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Overall if you are going for a cheap dependable car then I think that the 5.0 is the way to go. And you cant beat the aftermarket for the 5.0. If it says mustang it will work,for the most part. A 4 is prolly just as good for power and the aftermarket and has better gas miliage. But Like I said I havent found a decent tc for less then $2500 and have picked up two 5.0's for $510. It may be diffrent in your area, but here 5.0's and v-6's are a dime a dozen.
it all depends on what you want, and your level of knowledge
Turbo Coupes are great, i own one, and i own a V6 car, but the Turbo Coupes require alot of "specialty" knowledge, if youre great at learning things quickly, these cars arnt too much of a problem, but not all of us were blessed with fast learning capabilities, or just being mechanically inclined
the 5.0's arnt nearly as fun, they dont have as much of the "go-fast" parts from the factory, but they also have a lot of potential. Theyre also hard to mess up and are generally as reliable as a brick.
Personally, id buy a Turbo Coupe, the community is great, theyre fun and unique cars, and they have kickass potential. The 5.0 cars arnt bad, but they need a lot more to really catch up to where the turbo coupe is
Wow. Thanks for those replies. From the sounds of things, most people seem to think that the Turbo Would be the way to go. The thing I like the most about that car is the look of it. If you drove up behind someone who didn't know any better, they would think you're driving a mustang. I also like the idea of having the most possible horsepower. Since the basic out of the factory Turbo apparently has more power than the V8, I probably would want to take that route. I figure I could probably get at least 700 dollars for my V6, and with the prices of some of the Turbo's I have seen on Ebay, that would probably cover about half the cost of one.
I'm kinda surprised at all the comments about how poorly the V6's are. Personally I've never really had any problems with the car, it's just that I hear so many good things about the Turbo, and how fun it is....I had to make a change.
Finally, I have one more very important question. I know how most 4 bangers run. I've driven in a Ford Contour before, and various other similar cars, and was...not pleased with the experience. What I want to know, and have always wanted to know is this: Does the Turbo Coupe's power seem..."4cylinder-ish".. until the Turbo kicks in, or does the Turbo constantly run? I've never dealt with a car that has a TurboCharger in it before so this is all new to me. At what point does the Turbo kick in? Do you have to mat the accelerator to notice the difference, or does the Turbocharger run constantly and provides more power all the time? I'm asking this because with the weight of the Thunderbird and a 4cylinder engine in it, I would think the drive would seem pretty sluggish until the Turbo kicked in. Someone please set me straight and let me know how this all works...
It sounds to me like you're thinking of the turbo more in the terms of a supercharger.
The turbo is spinning all the time BUT it doesn't make any boost until you put a load on it. Basically, the more throttle you give it, the more boost there is, although that's not 100% true because you can have full boost at part throttle, it just won't accelerate as fast.
Also, there is some lag with a turbo but it just depends on what RPM you're at. '87-88 Turbo coupes have a small turbo (the IHI) with which lag usually isn't much of a problem. Of course if you get on it at 2000 rpm or lower you're gonna see some lag, but otherwise it's not a problem.
Honestly it's kinda hard to explain. Once you drive one, you'll understand what I mean.
why dont you just go out and test drive each one? I cant tell you if the 4 banger is decent, although I assume that it is.
yep. the turbo is always there but it does take a little time to "spool up" there are mods out there to over come/hel;p that but its not at all necesary. right off the line in an auto car the car seems a litle heavy but the turbo spools quickly enough to pull decent. if youve never driven one than you realy should. they dont realy drive "4cyl ish" nothing like say a tempo, escort ranger etc...again..the 5 speed cars are better. you can control the boost/spool better with the throttle and clutch when taking off. plus they have more available boost to begine with. tha autos are limited from the factory to give the auto tranny a longer life under the heavy car..
the v6 in your car isnt all bad. its pretty reliable. the isue is with it being a dog. it just struggles more, most noticably on hills. it realy depends on how you drive...
The V6's arnt bad engines, its just in terms of power and potential, is where they have their downfall
the Turbo Coupes arnt like driving a totally anemic 4 banger, there are times here and there where you know its a 4 cylinder, but when you need to get up and go, you downshift, get the RPMs up, and the car just takes off
its a car that takes getting used to, once you get the hang of it, theyre easy to motivate and you overcome the bit of lag the turbo has
if you were local, id let you drive mine, but youre most of the way on the other side of the country
Your only a couple of hours drive from me, actually planning a trip down to st george in a couple of days, and I could drive my 5.0.....
if you really have the HP bug, the 5.0's are where to go, the 5.0 HO mustang engines or 351W slid right in if you need to make the big number (300 HP plus), the turbo is a great motor and can make some big numbers for a 4 banger and can hang HP wise with the newer "tuner" cars in terms of HP with a few mods and same elbow grease.
I would recomend driving a few cars to see what you like. You can always swap body panels and make your 5.0 look like a turbo couple. or get a TC and later put in a v8 if you need more get up and go.
I just spent the day(7 plus hrs with several stops here and there, just short of 200 mi) driving a TOTALLY stock 5 speed '87 TC and it was a lot of fun. While it couldn't begin to hang with the 5.0'd TC, it has plenty of get-up and go..
So my suggestion is go 5 speed TC and if you don't want the stick get a 5.0... Actually the auto TCs can be fun with a little tweaking on the boost levels, but you're taking a chance with an already weak tranny...
Well, after months of saving, I ended up getting the Car I've always wanted. I found a Turbo Coupe Auto on Ebay located in Virginia. The buy it now Price was 750 dollars, but with a little patience, I found out that the Bidding reserve was only 500 dollars. I ended up winning the auction, and the car for 520 dollars. Next stop....Shipping.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4595901079 (http://"http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4595901079")
(http://webmail.west.pen 15s.net/agent/mobmain?msgvw=INBOXMN382DELIM11953MN382DELIM17)
Nice! I almost bought that car myself LOL! Give me a holler when you get the go-fast bug!
nice car... ive got my turbo coupe tore apart right now... with just a few mods u will be very happy with it and you will be imbarrasing mustangs with a 4cyl
Congrats.... Good thing I didn't see it, I'm only about 160 mi from F-berg...
Now the fun part is going to be shipping the thing to Tucson. Once I've got the money for that, which will be around the 23rd or so, I'll be home free. How long does it normally take to ship a Car cross country like that?
I woulod Imagine however long the drive is. They just toss it in the back of a truck and the guy drives it cross country taking only necessary breaks. I think my grandfolks got their Exploder from Kingman to Mass in about 4 days, when they moved up there. BTW it's good to see someone else in AZ that actually thinks these are cool cars. For a while there I was worried that I was the only one.
Well, how I became interested in these cars is an interesting story. After Graduating High School, I was sent money by all of my family members. I decided to save all of it for a car. After an exahustive search over the summer, I just couldn't see to find anything worth while. I had so many heartbreaking moments, culminating with myself involved in a losing Bidwar on Ebay for a cherry 1974 Oldsmobile Omega. After that fiasco, and coming to grips with the fact I desperately needed a car to find a job in town, I gave all the money to my parents and said "If you find anything and it's half-way decent, buy it and surprise me".
Sure enough, 2 weeks later I got my current 3.8L 87 Thunderbird. It was then I started looking at these forums, and realized that I had apparently received the worse possible Thunderbird available. Flash forward to present, with my steady job, I was able to save up enough cash and by the good graces of God, got lucky and practically stole a Turbo Coupe off of ebay. Now I am giddy with antition. I want to feel the power so bad...
Speaking of which, I was at a junk yard today and 2 things peaked my interest. I found an 87 Mark VII with a perfectly intact 5.0L V8 H.O. in it. Of course, my immediate thought was, "Where is the nearest engine Hoist?" However, thoughts of blown head gaskets, and other unknowns quickly erased that thought. But it got me wondering, did the Mark VII's or the Cougars come with the H.O. stock? I know the Thunderbird's didn't, so I assume the other two cars didn't either. I think it could have been a swap, but who would want a 5.0 H.O. in a Mark VII!?
I also found a Mustang (not sure of what year, but looked like something from the 80's) with a 2.3L 4 Banger in it. I didn't look Turbo Charged, and there were no Turbo Markings on it either. Was this pathetic excuse for an engine actually an option for the Mustang at the time?
Cougar and tbird got the so, 87 up marks got the Ho. Mustangs until 94 had an option for a 2.3 n/a
My suggestion, pick up a T-Coupe in as good mehanical condition as you can find, Swap in a 5.0 and drive train from an '88 through'93 Stang, and never look back. Ford missed the boat entirely by not offering their torquey, HO V-8 in the sweet T-Coupe package. I have a total of 260k miles on my '85 T-Coupe, the last 60k with the 5.0 pulling the trigger. I love it.......
These guys are the ones who want a HO in their Lincs... I can gaurentee the are more "FAST"(and faster)Lincs over there, than we have Birds and Cougs combined..http://www.fordvschevy.com/forum/index.php
The 2.3 non turbo was the base engine from '74-'93(OK the '74-'78 were Stang IIs), thats 20 years, so yea there are a lot of them out there... Actually they ain't bad in a stickshift version, but the automatics were total bow-wows...I owned about 8-10 way back when, with the last being a FI '87. Daughter finally sold it 2-3 years ago with 192k mi, still ran decent..
Of course there are the carbed 2.3 turbos from '79-'81('82 in Canada). The FI turbo appeared in '84 through '86 in the SVO versions...
A 2.8 V6 was available '74-early '79, when it was replaced by the 200(3.3) inline 6. Lasted till '83 whem the 3.8 became available, it made it through '85. Then reappeared in '95 through '03...
The 302/5.0 was available from '75-'79 and again '82-'95. There was no V8 option in '74 and the '80-'81 got a 4.2L(255) V8....
R model Cobra's got a HO 351 in '95... Since they only built 250, you ain't likely to run up with one... My son-in-law actually got to drive one... Lucky stiff...
Schools Out...
H.O out of a mark swaps in pretty easy. Check out http://www.coolcats.net/tech/advanced/mark50_swap.html