General => General Fox T-Bird/Cougar Discussion => Topic started by: cougarpower51 on August 24, 2005, 12:00:04 AM
Title: Gas Price crisis
Post by: cougarpower51 on August 24, 2005, 12:00:04 AM
Hey Guys I checked today the price here in Puerto Rico for regular is 63cents/liter that would be around $2.50, $2.55 the gallon of gas, my little cougar with a little more than half tank, to fill her up goes for $21.00, and this have to stop so I want to ask to all of the Cougar owners on ways to make our cars to spend better the fuel :america: and God Bless our great nation :america:
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: Thunder Chicken on August 24, 2005, 09:04:49 AM
Easy: Drive it like a grandmother, keep it in good tune, keep the tires inflated, and don't drive it unless you have to (walk to the corner store, combine your errands, etc). You know, the ol' story the environmentalists have been telling us for years.
63 cents/liter is cheap. Try $1.11.9/liter, or $115.6 (they're paying that in Newfoundland). And while the current price of gas certainly sucks, it's no crisis. When you go to the gas station and there's no gas left, and the stations resort to rationing fuel like happened in the mid 70's, THAT'S a crisis!
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: MDJ1281 on August 24, 2005, 12:51:15 PM
Was watching CNN on Sunday and they had one of those morning round table discussion shows on. One of the topics was fuel costs and how not only is gas high but natural gas and oil prices are going up 16% from last year just at the start of the season, probably higher thereafter. There were 2 diffrent opinions regarding gas, one being that gas lines may return by late next year or the following summer. The other opinion was that fuel will remain on a supply and demand market structure and gas prices will continue to rise and possibly be near $5 US by late next year.
Also we should be grateful to China, who is importing a large amount of cheap oil into the US market. Watch out for the Southern American OPEC countries like Ven. who, sometimes decides "hey, we're not going to export".
Ah, it's good to have an oil mogul in office... :mad:
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: slamedcat on August 24, 2005, 02:36:41 PM
http://www.czabe.com/index.shtml Look under "The Daily Czabe" link. This is where the quote comes from.
Quote
5. Everybody needs to shut the F up about gas prices. Everybody screams like a little bitch because what? Gas doesn’t cost $1.09 like it was 1985? Get over it. Adjusted for inflation, gas is cheaper now that it was then. Yeah, inflation, bitch. Ever heard of it? Stuff costs more. When people say gas costs too much, I always ask: “Oh really? What do you think a fair price is?” Nobody ever has a good answer to that one. Should a gallon be 50 cents less? Maybe. But all these stories about how much of a terrible “impact” it is making on the “poor” is a bunch of . These stories assume that the “poor” otherwise live a perfectly disciplined economic life. When you see somebody crying about high gas costs on a local TV report, I bet you can find used lottery scratch offs, packs of smokes, and cable TV in their house. Gas costs more, you pen 15s. Drive less, get a hybrid, save money elsewhere, or f’ing walk. I don’t care, and nobody does either.
This is the type of thing that me of. And the additude that keeps the price going up.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: Haystack on August 24, 2005, 02:52:17 PM
Its the hybrids that are bringing up the gas prices. If we all drove mid 70's lincolns gas would be cheap as hell. Its the economic cars that are making it cost alot. I think that we should all pay the same amount for a tank of gas. Watching all of my freinds fill up for $20 me off. I have put over $75 of regular unleaded gas in my car. I am proud of that. Its the little stupid kids buying imports that are making gas cost more. If our cars got 40 MPG vs 20 MPG, then they are just going to charge twice as much. *edit* I drove around for over 3 hours just cruzing. As long as I can afford to fill my take in my peice of garbage $500 or less cars, vs buy a $85000 hybrid, I will. Right now it is cheaper for me to buy a car twice a month then it is to make payments on one new more fuel better car. Screw em. Its those that are playing there little game that make it suck for the rest of us. I will fill my tank all day every day if I have to. Its funny it really is. The better miliage cars get, the more gas costs.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: oldraven on August 24, 2005, 03:23:11 PM
Quote from: Haystack
Its the hybrids that are bringing up the gas prices. If we all drove mid 70's lincolns gas would be cheap as hell. Its the economic cars that are making it cost alot. I think that we should all pay the same amount for a tank of gas. Watching all of my freinds fill up for $20 me off. I have put over $75 of regular unleaded gas in my car. I am proud of that. Its the little stupid kids buying imports that are making gas cost more. If our cars got 40 MPG vs 20 MPG, then they are just going to charge twice as much. *edit* I drove around for over 3 hours just cruzing. As long as I can afford to fill my take in my peice of garbage $500 or less cars, vs buy a $85000 hybrid, I will. Right now it is cheaper for me to buy a car twice a month then it is to make payments on one new more fuel better car. Screw em. Its those that are playing there little game that make it suck for the rest of us. I will fill my tank all day every day if I have to. Its funny it really is. The better miliage cars get, the more gas costs.
You have it completely backwards. Supply and demand are the two factors driving gas prices up. The more we use, the more it costs. Not the other way around.
Also, consider that American made cars have progressively gotten worse on fuel, when you add up the numbers, every year. THAT is driving the cost of fuel up.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: jkirchman on August 24, 2005, 03:26:57 PM
Quote
Ah, it's good to have an oil mogul in office
Yeah because that's the reason gas prices all over the world are rising higher and higher and not only in the US. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: jcassity on August 24, 2005, 03:36:52 PM
google the phrase "peak oil""shortage" see what you come up, specifically peak oil.
interesting reading
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: Haystack on August 24, 2005, 03:44:39 PM
Honestly I think it is just a joke and a trick to make us pay more. There is a possibility that it will run out, but I personally am not worried. I remember reading some articles in a newspaper saything the same thing. Apperentally we will run out of water like 20 years ago. Its just a media scare. Sorry that is just my opinion.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: Ifixyawata on August 24, 2005, 04:05:40 PM
I guess I'm a stupid kid with my little economy car then. My neon gets about 34mpg highway. I guess I'd be doing us all a favor if I drove my T-bird instead. The bird would cost $60 to fill up as opposed to my Neon which would only hold $30 from completely empty. Maybe if I put a hole in the gas tank I'd get gas mileage around 10mpg and then prices would go down. Stupid economy cars.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: Haystack on August 24, 2005, 04:17:52 PM
yeah I agree. No j/k. I am just saying with how things are now, when we meet the supply/damand then the prices will still go up. they still make a butload off of it anyways. eh I will just stop posting here so I dont piss any one off.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: Ifixyawata on August 24, 2005, 04:20:13 PM
Ok, but who's making all the money? I work at a gas station and I haven't had a raise in well over a year, contrary to company policy. No one I work with, nor the owner is raking in tons of dough. I'm interested to know who's making all the money.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: Ifixyawata on August 24, 2005, 04:23:09 PM
Quote from: jkirchman
Yeah because that's the reason gas prices all over the world are rising higher and higher and not only in the US. :rolleyes:
Jim, didn't you know? Our president wants to make money on oil, being an 'oil mogul' so he raised prices. And, since the United States is at the leading edge of anything and everything, all the countries all over the world followed suit, because we are the USA and everyone wants to be like us because we're the best forever and always. They're just jealous. So yes, it is the President's fault. It might seem like we just blame him because it's easy to place the blame with him because of his declined approval by the public, but nope, he's behind it all.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: oldraven on August 24, 2005, 04:28:16 PM
Since when did Bush run OPEC?
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: softtouch on August 24, 2005, 05:28:06 PM
Twice in the '70s the Saudis turned off the oil. You could only buy gas every other day. If your tag was an even number , you could buy on even days if your tag was odd you bought on odd days. You could only get five gallons at a time and you had to wait in line to get that. I had to wait out lines at two stations on my day just have enough gas to commute to work.
In Texas people were demanding the Governor stop Texas oil from being shipped to other states.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: nirvanagod on August 24, 2005, 05:52:58 PM
Quote from: oldraven
Since when did Bush run OPEC?
It's not that he run's it, it's that he and Cheney have a vested interest in it. OPEC makes money, they make money.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: JeremyB on August 24, 2005, 06:14:17 PM
Quote from: nirvanagod
It's not that he run's it, it's that he and Cheney have a vested interest in it. OPEC makes money, they make money.
Howso?
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: Dookie86 on August 24, 2005, 06:58:22 PM
question about an earlier post from the quote where the guy was bitchin to stop us from bitchin. ( i read an atricle about this too ) if gas tachnically cost more back in the 80's due to inflation, then why didnt anybody raise a fit over it? i asked my parents about it and they didnt think it was expensive, nor did anybody complain about it. so then how are they sayin it was more expensive?
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: nirvanagod on August 24, 2005, 08:57:40 PM
Quote from: JeremyB
Howso?
They have known ties to big oil company's (stock i believe).
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: Thunder Chicken on August 24, 2005, 09:49:51 PM
Quote
if gas tachnically cost more back in the 80's due to inflation, then why didnt anybody raise a fit over it?
Oh, but they did raise a fit. They raised such a fit that the government created the CAFE. The automakers downsized their vehicles. And the puppiesanese made huge gains because of their small, efficient vehicles. I invite you to open any car magazine from 1975-1985 and find me a vehicle ad bragging about horsepower. You won't find any. It was all about MPG back then, as it will soon be again.
The S10. Ranger. D-50. All of the small puppies trucks. Jeep Cherokee, Bronco II, S10 Blazer. The downsized LTD, the smaller Caprice and Crown Vic. The small (by Lincoln standards) Mark VI. The Pinto, Mustang II, Vega, Gremlin, Chevette, Escort, Omni, the dreadful diesel Oldsmobiles and Tempos. And of course, all of the small puppiesanese cars. All of those vehicles owe their existence to the fuel crises in the 70's and 80's (that's plural - there was one in the 70's and one in the 80's).
Back in the late 70's, early 80's, a bag of potato chips cost a quarter and a bottle of pen 15e cost 15 cents. At the same time a gallon of gas approached a buck. Now the chips cost a buck (a fourfold increase) and the pop cost a buck and a half (ten times the early 80's cost!). Gasoline, meanwhile, costs a bit under three times what it did back then. Why doesn't anybody bitch about that?
Like it or not, the high energy prices are a direct result of overweight, gas-guzzling vehicles. Some of the recent spike also has to do with instability, but the main worries are instabilities in the supply, not political instabilities. When a hurricane hits the panhandle and shuts down a few refineries the price spikes. That's got nothing to do with Saddam Hussein. When a bunch of people use something it becomes more rare and desirable, and thus more valuable. Supply and demand. When the demand outstrips (or even comes close to matching) the supply, prices go up. When the supply becomes larger than the demand the prices go down.
We're currently sucking back the dino juice as fast as they can refine it, so the price is high. When it gets too expensive we'll start buying smaller, more efficient vehicles, and the price will go down. Just like what happened in the 70's and 80's. It'll never go down to a buck again, and likely won't go below two (after all, a large part of the recent increases would be considered by investors to be an "adjustment", meaning the commodity is suddenly changing value to reflect its true worth after being undervalued for a long time, just like when the internet bubble burst a few years ago and stocks dropped like a rock from their artificially high values to reflect their true, worthless values), but adjusted for inflation it will come down.
And as already pointed out in this thread, even at three bucks a gallon you guys still have it cheap compared to other industrialized countries. Even here in Canada, at over $3.50 a gallon, it's cheaper than France, England, Germany, etc...
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: JeremyB on August 24, 2005, 10:38:32 PM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken
And as already pointed out in this thread, even at three bucks a gallon you guys still have it cheap compared to other industrialized countries. Even here in Canada, at over $3.50 a gallon, it's cheaper than France, England, Germany, etc...
I'd like to get clarification on something. Isn't the higher price of gas in Canada/Europe due to taxes?
Quote from: nirvanagod
They have known ties to big oil company's (stock i believe).
What would you have Bush/Cheney do to alleviate the increase in crude oil prices?
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: Thunder Chicken on August 24, 2005, 10:48:18 PM
I dunno about Europe, but here in Nova Scotia the taxes break down as follows:
15 cents/liter federal taxes 10 cents/liter provincial taxes (these two taxes remain constant regardless of the price) 15% sales tax (this tax goes up & down with the price)
For simplicity's sake, let's say gas was 1.15/liter. Straight off, 15% of that price (or 15 cents) is sales tax, then another 25 cents in fixed taxes, so the actual pre-tax price would be about 75 cents/liter. At 3.8 liters to the US gallon, that's $2.85 CDN dollars. At 83 US cents to the CDN dollar our pre-tax price would be $2.36 per gallon.
The post tax price (using the same 1.15/liter example, 3.8 liters to the gallon and .83 exchange rate) would be $3.62, so we pay almost $1.30USD per gallon in taxes.
So how do US pre-tax prices compare to our $2.36 per gallon? I'd be curious to find out.
One other curiosity - I often hear Americans say that diesel is as or more expensive than gas. Here it's cheaper, and it's the one thing that the price actually varies from station to station. At Wilson's and Superstore it's 97.4 cents/liter, while at Irving and Petro Canada it's $1.10 (compared to $1.12 for gas).
We don't have many small, independent stations here - they're pretty much all major brands (Irving, Petro Canada, Esso [Exxon], Ultramar and Wilson's. There are no "Bob's gas" or anything like that. This also explains why the gas prices are all identical - the big companies work together to fix the price. When one puts the price up, they all do, and when one puts the price down they all do. No independents to differ from their prices, so they can fox them at whatever they want. This is why I'd like to see what the pre-tax prices are in areas that actually have competition.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: JeremyB on August 24, 2005, 11:05:13 PM
Federal Tax= $.18/gal
For Alabama (which probably has lower taxes on avg. than the rest of the US) State Tax = $.12/gal County Tax = $.01/gal-$.04/gal City Tax = $.01/gal-$.04/gal
Where I live, County+City taxes are .03+.01 = $.04/gal
So, I pay a total of 34 cents/gal in taxes. The total cost of gasoline around here is $2.49-$2.59. That gives a pre-tax price of $2.15-2.25 per gallon.
So, here at least, there is a differential of ~15 cents/gal.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: nirvanagod on August 24, 2005, 11:46:37 PM
Quote from: JeremyB
What would you have Bush/Cheney do to alleviate the increase in crude oil prices?
My comment was made in regards to the relationship of Bush to OPEC. Not that he is the cause or the answer. I just believe that Bush, due to his association to big oil, helps fuel the fire that allows companies to skyrocket crude oil prices. I'm merely stating a personal opinion interjected with what facts I have been told/heard/know. In all reality ThunderChicken is right about the fact we won't see the lower gas prices that we used to have. I really think that Bush could step in and do something to offset this rising cost such as, increasing minimum wage, or working to close the loopholes that said companies use for tax breaks. Not to mention, not giving these companies these taxbreaks and "incentives" outright. However the likelyhood of him doing such things is slim to none. But as I said, i'm really only speaking out of opinion. For all I know i'm totally wrong, just figured i'd throw in my :2c: .
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: Ifixyawata on August 25, 2005, 12:57:41 AM
As quoted in the other gasoline thread, people are just going to have to adjust thier budget, less money toward frivolous shiznit like lottery tickets. Here in Ohio, they recently imposed a "sin tax" on cigarettes of about 80 cents a pack. Man, oh man did I ever hear it from the "public". At first, few realized it was a statewide change and promised on taking thier business elsewhere. Anyway, fast forward to last week, a guy comes in and buys the rock bottom cheap brand instead of his Marlboro's and says "if I had the extra money I'd still get Marlboro's but I have to buy the cheap ones instead" followed almost immediately by "I need some numbers for the Pick3". I thought this guy must not be listening to himself at all. If lotto tickets is a part of someone's budget, then that's not much of a budget at all. The money used for thier purchase should be extra, leftover cash. You know, the kind of stuff you keep in a jar at home. Ok... so maybe cigarettes are a bad example. After all, those are pretty god frivolous too. For someone to pay $4 to inhale carbon monoxide for 5 minutes 20 times... addiction is an ugly thing. Anyway, like the other thread said, these people bitching about gas prices probably have a carton of cigarettes and $100 worth of losing lottery tickets in thier car.. hmmm, there's 5 fill-ups right there.
Bottom line, $2.50 a gallon is very reasonably affordable for anyone, assuming they're not driving a car that exceeds thier means. A guy comes in today and puts $50 worth of diesel (just shy of 20 gallons) into his HUGE new Ford F-2/350. 4-door, 20" wheels, long-bed. I bet the ed thing weighs 4 tons. The truck had a taneau cover and no hitch. So, quite obviously it didn't seem like this was the truck he used to make his living. (can't haul shiznit with a hard cover on the bed and no hitch) I'm betting it was a "mid-life crisis/small pen 15 compensation" purchase. Single mom's with 2 kids driving Dodge Durango's and Expeditions. Wait... isn't that what a minivan's for? Or even *gasp* a mid-size wagon or even sedan? For them to be unhappy about paying so much would indicate that they need to re-evaluate thier choice in automobiles.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: jkirchman on August 25, 2005, 11:50:10 AM
Barring some major disruption to the oil supply, prices will probably fall over the next three weeks as the summer "driving season" winds down and demand for gas eases temporarily. However, even as that fades, the underlying supply constraint will come back to haunt prices every time either demand cycles up toward the production limit or an unexpected event disrupts even a small percentage of total production.
The economy is still growing, and demand for oil is still going to be higher this year than it was last year. Next year, when global demand has risen another two percent, the strain on our oil infrastructure will be that much worse. The buttstuffysts (notice root word of "buttstuff") will insist again the the problem is part of a cycle, not systematic, and will once again fail to see the emerging pattern.
So far, rising oil prices haven't brought on a recession in North America, but there are plenty of reasons to suspect that growth here must stall sooner or later.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: EricCoolCats on August 25, 2005, 12:27:17 PM
Quote
"mid-life crisis/small pen 15 compensation"
Quote
"buttstuff"
Quote
sucking back the dino juice
Yep, this thread proves it...there's just a lot of screwing going on. :giggle:
The main problem for the U.S. is that there hasn't been a single new refinery built in America since the late 1970's. The government has made building a new one such a complicated procedure that it would take nearly a decade from start to finish. Therefore we must depend mostly on other countries to supply the oil. Meanwhile, if we have a tropical storm off the coast, or a war in the Middle East, or God forbid, Oprah raises an eyebrow--BAM! Up goes the price of gas. It is difficult for the average midwestern U.S. citizen to comprehend bearing that burden. Are they wrong? No. Is it justified? Yes and no. It is supply and demand, and people in the States are demanding large cars that burn a lot of gas. However, when pockets are being lined in front of our eyes, it becomes an issue of trust. Oil companies are about the only manufacturers in the U.S. that do not bear the burden of higher fuel costs. Everyone else is expected to. I think that is probably the main sticking point with most people.
BTW...if anyone saw the premiere episode of Morgan Spurlock's show "30 Days" on FX a few months ago (that's the guy that made "Supersize Me"), he and his fiancé tried to live on minimum wage for 30 days. They took public transportation, walked when possible, and still had to se change together to eat--and even then they went hungry. There are people living like this, in every town in America. Gas prices are absolutely a huge part of people's lives when they are the working poor. Let's not forget this just because we're not down at that level (yet...a few more years and we will be).
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: slamedcat on August 25, 2005, 03:31:44 PM
Quote from: Ifixyawata
Bottom line, $2.50 a gallon is very reasonably affordable for anyone, assuming they're not driving a car that exceeds thier means. A guy comes in today and puts $50 worth of diesel (just shy of 20 gallons) into his HUGE new Ford F-2/350. 4-door, 20" wheels, long-bed. I bet the ed thing weighs 4 tons. The truck had a taneau cover and no hitch. So, quite obviously it didn't seem like this was the truck he used to make his living. (can't haul shiznit with a hard cover on the bed and no hitch) I'm betting it was a "mid-life crisis/small pen 15 compensation" purchase. Single mom's with 2 kids driving Dodge Durango's and Expeditions. Wait... isn't that what a minivan's for? Or even *gasp* a mid-size wagon or even sedan? For them to be unhappy about paying so much would indicate that they need to re-evaluate thier choice in automobiles.
I do have problems buying gas at $2.50 a gallon. I don't drink, smoke, gamble, hell I leave my house only to goto work or goto the store.
I live in a single income house, married, and have 3 kids. I make $18.00 and hour and after taxs, and insurance being deducted, and bills I end up with about $200 a week and haven't gone to the store yet to refill the fridge.
My cars are paid off, the house is paid off. and every time I look at my bill the rates keep going up. I don't know if this has anyhting to do with the price of gas or not but somebody is making a buck somewhere and it sure isn't me.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: CougarSE on August 25, 2005, 05:05:42 PM
Quote from: JeremyB
Howso?
Have you seen fahrenheit 911?
Quote from: ThunderChicken
Bob's gas
Lol we have those!
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: softtouch on August 25, 2005, 05:09:35 PM
Fed Tax 18.4 cents Maryland Tax 23.5 cents Total Tax 41.9 cents Gas 2.68-.42=2.26 pre tax
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: JeremyB on August 25, 2005, 05:47:42 PM
Quote from: CougarSE
Have you seen fahrenheit 911?
No. I've been meaning to. Michael Moore doesn't exactly give "the straight dope" when it comes to his movies.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: nirvanagod on August 25, 2005, 10:13:05 PM
Quote from: CougarSE
Have you seen fahrenheit 911?
I have, and as much as I believed Bowling For Columbine was an excellent documentary, Fahrenheit 9/11 went to far. Keep in mind i'm not a "fan" of Bush, but even I realized that it was simply a Bush bashing tactic. I've even experienced seeing Michael Moore live when he came to Kent State University on his pre-election campus tour. He was definately waging an all out war on Bush jr. However, Fahrenheit did have a fair amount of facts that have been verified (i.e.: the Bush families relation to big oil). But even with what fact were presented, the fact that it was so blatently biased simply ruined it's effectiveness. In the end though, I would still suggest it to those who want to learn a little bit about Iraqi culture, and some Bush family history.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: jkirchman on August 26, 2005, 12:15:29 PM
Michael Moore has an incredible talent for taking facts and truth and piecing them together in a way that pushes his agenda. He's as much of a politician as anyone in Washington.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: oldraven on August 26, 2005, 12:23:00 PM
Quote from: jkirchman
Michael Moore has an incredible talent for taking facts and truth and piecing them together in a way that pushes his agenda. He's as much of a politician as anyone in Washington.
Sounds like plenty of reason not to trust him. ;)
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: CougarSE on August 26, 2005, 12:38:47 PM
There was alot of Bush bashing in the movie but that is what people relate this war too. So why not?
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: BEARMAX on August 26, 2005, 07:06:31 PM
WE BETTER START BREWING MOON SHINE TO USE FOR GAS :evilgrin: OR EVEN BUILD A CAR THAT RUN'S ON TRASH-OR HOWA BOUT A COUGAR THAT RUN'S ON PROPANE..OK ILL STOP
MAN I FEEL STUPID
BEAR LOSE'S COOL POINT'S ON THIS POST :sorry:
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: Thunder Chicken on August 26, 2005, 08:42:45 PM
I have always considered myself to be a left-leaning person. Not quite a liberal, but closer to liberal than conservative. I like Dunesbury, I believe in equal rights, and I think nobody should have to pay for health care. On the other hand, I am 110% against our Canadian gun control mess, I'm all for capital punishment, and I think Canada spends far too little on its military. Even with my left-leaning ways I found F-911 to be nothing more than Moore staking out a personal vendetta against Bush. I think Bush is about as smart as a chimp, but I don't trust Moore any more than I would trust a republican.
One thing that the vast majority of people doesn't seem to understand is that "Big Oil" has little to do with the price of a barrel of oil. Oil is a publicly traded commodity and it's the buyers that set the price. If you've got something for sale and get an offer of $60, and then another guy offers you $61, of course you're gonna accept the $61. That's how oil works. Right now everybody wants to buy it because they think they can sell it down the road for more money. It's a rare commodity with an unstable source and an uncertain future. Demand is high, so the price is high. Eventually this thinking will hit the wall and the price will come down again, but it'll never hit $30 a barrel again.
Now, don't get be wrong. "Big Oil" certainly has a part in it, but not a huge part. Big oil is 100% responsible for the high prices at the pumps right now because the gas that's being sold at stations right now was bought for $40-$50 a barrel. They jacked the price up and are making profits, selling $40/barrel gas at $65/barrel prices. This sounds unfair to us, but we forget that these are businesses. They exist to make money, not to make life easier for us. More money = happy shareholders.
Big oil could also help by pumping and refining more, thus changing the supply/demand ration for the better, but they would be fools to. Why would they flood the market and thus lower the value of a commodity that has a finite supply? If they've got a billion barrels in the ground, they will eventually sell those billion barrels. It's better for them to sell those billion barrels over ten years at $60/barrel than over five at $30.
Domestic big oil (Texas and Alberta) could help us out by selling their oil domestically for less, but why should they? If I owned a big oil company and had offers of $40/barrel within North America and $65/barrel in southeast Asia, you can bet your arse that oil would be on a boat.
And the governments of oil producing countries, including Canada and the USA, stand to gain from high oil prices not only from taxes but from royalties. Whether you believe that Bush is keeping prices high on purpose is irrelevant - he is not, of course, but he certainly isn't doing much to lower them either, and not because his family is involved in oil - it's because high oil prices are actually good for an oil-producing economy (such as Texas and Alberta). Look at Alberta's recent riches - not only have they paid off their provincial debt, they have a huge surplus. Billions of dollars that they don't know what to do with, and those billions are there because a budget that was written with estimates of oil revenues from $40/barrel prices are now much, much higher. So they're in no great hurry to lower prices either.
No, Big Oil isn't fully to blame, and governments are in no hurry to help us. The only relief we will see is when demand eases, and demand will only ease when prices get high enough that we have no choice but to use less. Not good news, but the truth rarely is, and all we can do is bend over and relax our sphincter muscles. It's a wild ride and it's only just gotten under way.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: phyxius on September 01, 2005, 08:40:06 AM
it finally hit over a 1$ (1.147$) a liter here and if it follows the news by the end of the month it will be up to 1.40.i sure as hell hope not cause neither my XR-7 or SC run well on reg and prem is nuts.
Title: Re: Gas Price crisis
Post by: amooset on September 01, 2005, 12:59:45 PM
Quote from: oldraven
You have it completely backwards. Supply and demand are the two factors driving gas prices up. The more we use, the more it costs. Not the other way around.
Actually, it is the other way around. As the price increases, more people are willing to sell at the higher price, increasing supply. Supply/demand is a confusing thing. I used to think it worked like that, too until I took econimcs and really saw how things operate. It does make sense if you think about it.
*edit* It seems after reading the remainder of the thread, the typical supply/demand curve doesn't apply to things with limited supply. Economincs will always be confusing.
"I'd explain it to yea'... but I flunked economics. Not my fault. They taught it at 8 o'clock in the morning. And there is absolute nothing that you can learn out of one bloodshot eye." - Lewis Black.