Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

I have been thinking..... I have the GT40 intake, X3Z Cobra computer, 70mm throttle body, 24# injectors and so on......It's a good set up. Now here's the thing..

I drive my car probably 10 miles a day 90% of the time. I have thought many times about my hood scoops actually being functional. Which led me to think about the Fast EFI setup. I'm simply THINKING about the swap, topping it off with a '71 Mustang style ram air induction air cleaner that would seal to the hood. Something different, and functional. I may or may not lose a few horsepower over what I have, and either way, not a big deal to me at this point as I don't race the car any more, and I like it's self learning capabilities. I've got more studying to do on this swap. I know I can sell my current EFI parts to get some of my funds back. Well, except for the GT-40 upper, I'm keeping that. The lower is T-Moss ported, plus the other parts. I kind of like the idea of opening the hood, and seeing the big blue air cleaner with the rubber seal on top and fabbing a panel to mount under the hood for the air cleaner to seal up to. Painted to match the hood of course and carefully done.

Any opinions on this swap?

Not sure on the swap, but calling dibs on the Moss lower....;)

I'm still trying to decide. Still educating myself.

Ive been looking into FItech for later on down the road. Their big kit handles 1000+ horse self tuning self learning all in one and power adder friendly. I think in the long run you'll see some real gains replacing the dated factory style fuel injection for something like fast or fitech. I think its mainly up to your preference. I personally think it would be really cool. It would be a compliment to your hood

It sounds cool but you'll probably spend $$$$ and not really gain anything. It'll look cool though, so there's that.

Do a Vic Jr efi and a 4150 throttle body.

http://www.stinger-performance.com/universalparts.html

The PIMPx system is very capable and will do anything you can fathom for the most part. It's essentially a Megasquirt packaged to be used in our Fords.

The idea originally came about to have good performance, and make my hood a functional ram air hood. I do like the IDEA of having a '71 Mustang style Ram Air induction air cleaner assembly. So I'm trying to see what the pros and cons are.

I think its a very cool idea, I myself had thought about doing this. Fitech, Fast, Holley, Edelbrock all have these swaps now and are fairly reasonable..........I say do it!! :D

I'm sure thinking about it. I can't do anything til January, but the idea sounds better and better the more I think about it. The whole idea isn't really about getting more power but retaining good power, dependability, and doing something different.

I do wonder what can be removed if the Fast EFI systen (or Fitech) is installed. Does the Main harness get pulled along with the computer and lket the new system do it's job? And, does the computer effect anything else in the car that would need to be addressed other than the engine management? I have to learn more before I can obligate myself.

 If I do get the system, I'd get the "master kit" that has everything, fuel pump, O2 sensors, etc. Start from scratch.

do this vinnie save you some cash

Then what about his mass air sensor?

Another reason I kinda like the FAST EFI setup. I'm going to do more information seeking. As I stated..... I understand the SEFI style (an injector at every cylinder) may be better over all, but if I lost a few horsepower, I can live with that. I am ready for something a bit different, and that air cleaner and actual ram air sounds like a really cool idea, and the self learning FAST computer also sounds like a good idea.. I also like the idea of not pulling the intake and air intake to get my valve covers off. LOL.

90% of aftermarket stuff is sd and uses a map sensor. Sefi also have virtually no performance or gas mileage benefit, so most are also batch fire.

With the ram air a like a 70's car, it would be way easier to adapt a carb style throttle body. More power everywhere and cheaper.

I went carb for the cleaner look and it being cheap as can be. That was around the time the fast system was still new and pretty expensive along with the vic jr efi and they were almost the only options. I have the same round about idea in the long run with fitech. They make re-pop boss shakers. I dont think you'd be losing much in the way of performance.

If you want to fab something you can try and re-create the system used on 03-04 Mach 1 Mustangs.

I like the shaker, and at one time, years ago, I had thought of going that route. BUT, with the current hood, it is always my very favorite part of the car and stays.

I have also thought of FITech system as well. With the master kits (EFI unit, O2 sensors, fuel lines and pump etc), they run almost the same as FAST. I will do more research to see which one is actually the better of the two, or, if they are practically the same in fit, form and function.

I am always under a zero dollar budget. I have to sell parts or trade or whatever to get funds for the Sport, so, it takes time. That isn't a problem as it gives me time to study up on all of this. I am still going back and forth on this stuff, but the more I think about it, the more I am wanting to do it. I also wonder how good the computer is that runs it all. 30 years of technology has passed since my car was built, and it's 30 year old or older technology running it. Yes, there are new computers for the cars we have, but I do like the ram air idea along with doing something different and still having the car be very functional and all purpose.

a system sort of like this? (https://fastlaneinnovations.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Finished-Torino-GT-Ram-Air-001.jpg)

That's kind of what I'm after, but I don't want the oval air cleaner. Never did like those unless they are on top of two carbs. I want a round air cleaner like the 71 Mustang. Probably Ford Blue with a chrome top, and of course, the rubber seal. I can fabricate a duct for the hood, but it has to be right. That hood can't be messed up with ugly thrown together leftovers.

Right on bud I can see that working out real well

I'm dropping all my coins in my can to save up.

Hell Yea.......:hick:

http://fitechefi.com/products/30003/    and I think you can just use the pump you have now

I was looking at FITech as well as FAST. Still comparing them to see which one would be best. I like that system in the video. That would be right for my car.

I have to answer questions like....

Can I remove the current ECM and run the current pump? OR, do I need to run a new pump and start out from scratch as if I had a carbed car?

What do I need to leave in the car as far as the main harness and ECM are concerned? I'm unsure at this time what I need and don't need from my car to do the conversion.

I like the looks of the fast but alot more expensive.....
http://www.speednik.com/files/2013/04/fast20-02.jpg

I agree. I can be happy with either one as long as it will do it's job very well.

I have a question with all of this FAST or FiTech swap stuff.....


If I go that route, can the main engine harness and ECM be removed from the car? Does anything else depend on the ECM other than the engine? I do know my dash clock is tied into the harness, but I only use it as a clock, I don't use the fuel  mileage stuff, so I'd guess that the two wires to the main harness could easily be removed. But the rest I'm unsure about like water temp and oil sending unit.

i think youll need a portion of it, for the tfi and the gauges. but that I believe is it all that stuff is gone from my car anyway with the MSD, carb and aftermarket gauges but I'm not 100% its been a long while since I've seen a complete factory car

i'll replace the distributor. Possibly with one for an 85 Mustang GT. I have studying to do on that. Which gauges would be effected by removing the main harness?

i believe just the temp and oil pressure gauges

.

Easy fix...just need to pin them directly to the dash harness or separate the harness. It doesn't go to the ECU.

John

I bloody hate electrical, but, I'll do it if I have to.

It turns on the fuel pump as well.

I worked with an old fast efi system in a 2.3 turbo sand rail. It used an old turbo coupe harness re wires a bit.

There was only like 10 wires plus the fuel injectors wires we needed to hook up.

Electrical really isn't bad vinnie. With everything else you've done, it would be a cake walk.

LOL. I hope it is. If all this happens, which it's looking like it will this spring, then I'll get the master kit and use the new inline fuel pump. Keep all of the Fast kit parts (or FiTech) that I can.

I am starting to really look forward to the swap, and making the hood functional.

FI tech has the fuel command center. its an under hood sump basically. Its mainly for carbed cars so you dont have to rework the entire fuel system to run it. the factory pump fills it and it has another self contained fuel pump that pumps to the throttle body.

I saw that, it's for a low pressure pump. I like the idea of the inline high pressure pump the FAST offers. I think FiTech also has the inline high pressure pump as well. I will call them and ask questions and do a lot of studying first.

http://fitechefi.com/products/40005/

I saw that. I believe they have a master kit with that pump, O2 sensor/wideband, etc.

I want the one big, do it all kit.

Any updates?

Update......

First, my apologies for not updating. I know I hate it when I'm left hanging and waiting for updates from others, so I shouldn't do that.

Now, decided to keep the SEFI. I swapped distributors, and the car is running very strong, and I'm about to do something I haven't done in a long time, but used to a lot....swapping the intake. I'm going to pull the tubular GT-40 and Tmoss ported lower to install a Trick Flow R Series intake and Accufab 75mm throttle body. Also, a few new ignition parts that I have in the garage, and new fuel pump.

I miss when you posted a picture of a new, polished intake every weekend.

LOL. Well, one more time. I'll be installing the parts this spring when it warms up. The parts list is fairly long of what I'd replacing or adding.

Aeromotive 340 lph pump
Trick Flow R Series intake
New thermostat and housing and ARP housing bolts
New PCV kit (just the screen grommet and PCV)
New factory style ARP intake bolts
New Cobra Master Cylinder
New King Cobra clutch
New polished aluminum valve covers
New 75 mm Accufab throttle body and EGR delete spacer
New heater pipes that come without the little "water to the spacer" tube on it
New electric fan
New MSD ignition kit....distributor, coil, ignition box and adapter harness
New Livewires spark plug wires
SN95 Mustang fuel rail with a Kirban adjustable fuel pressure regulator

That's the list as it is now. It took a looooong time to gather parts. I'll peck away at this stuff til it's all done.

Vinnie's gonna change his intake?! Say it ain't so! :rollin:

It's time again. LOL.

Why the 340 lph pump?  I am making well over 330rwhp on a Walbro 255 lph pump.  I would just be concerned that you might be putting more pump in the car than the fuel lines will handle.  The pump manufacturer should have that info but I just wanted to throw that out there as it happened to me once from lack of planning.  The return line was too small for the volume of fuel the pump put out so I had to run a new, larger return line to solve the problem.

Yeah, a 255 ought to be good for 400 horsepower. Lots of folks have 255'ers with solid 350 horse cars. Unless you're planning for a supercharger ASAP......hmmm.

Vinnie, you need a procharger setup. :D

With an R series intake you can't have a functional ram air hood ��.

But yeah you shouldn't need that big of a fuel pump. I run a 155lph pump without issue. It's good till around 400hp at 39psi.

No supercharger planned at all. Too much money and I don't race the car anymore.

The pump was part of a trade and brand new in the box. The 255 I have now is working but it's a no name brand, so, why not try it?

I have no idea what power the engine will make once it's all together. ANy ideas?

I'm hoping to take the car to the local dyno once the parts are all installed. The new Accufab throttle body is beautiful. I want to just keep it on the table by the couch.

Dammit I'm late to the party with this comment. Oh well doing it anyway LOL. Vinnie I have two words for ya
 

I can't lie, the idea of a turbo or supercharger has crossed my mind many many times. But in reality, it'll probably never happen.

The camshaft is the brain of the motor with the heads following and the displacement next.  Unless your induction system is not enough to feed the heads then the gains will be minimal or about zero.  I know you have an Ed Curtis camshaft so why not give him a shout and see what he thinks.  Ed has always been super cool with past customers asking questions.  You filled out a tech sheet when you got the cam so I would attached that to the email and if you know your part number on the cam include that in the body of the email as well.  His immediate response to me was additional cubic inches to better utilize his cam and that is what I ended up doing but you are not there...yet.  So now that we are talking cubic inches why not a stroker?  Requires little block modification (notching the skirts to clear the rod bolts) and balancing the rotating assembly.  Charlie down at Folk Automotive in Norman could do all of this for you (shameless plug as he does all my machine work).  Seriously, go out and look for stroker kits for sale by someone who bought one and then decided not to do it for one reason or another (usually sold the car).  I got my 331 kit (crank, rods, pistons, bearings, and rings) for $450 this way. 

I will say that using an aftermarket EEC and getting your car on a dyno will absolutely make more power than a chip and the old EEC processor.  The EEC electronics are a minimum of 25 years old and its like running a 486 processor and expecting a super computer.  I mulled this over several times and I think if I do not sell my Coupe this is the direction I will go.

https://www.diyautotune.com/product/megasquirtpnp-g2-eec4a8-for-86-93-ford-mustang-5-0/

I am by no means a tuner but there are several in the OKC area and one good one that I know of up here in the Tulsa area.  Is this a lot of coin to drop?  In short hell yes it is but I really think that my combo is struggling with the A9L and the SCT chip tune.

Whatever you choose to do I know you will research it to death and come up with a balanced plan.  If you contact Ed let us know what he says as I would be curious.

i am also doing this mod to our 331 but, the TC 2.3L scoop function & design need integrated.

I am going to simply use two spring loaded home made doors fixed to the TC openings.

I need to understand how i keep rain water from geting sucked in, i still cant understand how the TC design keeps water out of the TB.

What have you learned vinnie about this subject of water?

The TC design was only to get air over the intercooler and not for induction.

I have contemplated covering the underside with sheet metal from the scoop entrance and use baffles to change direction and force water to drop out. Of course with drain tubes to clear the water. Just a random thought...it stopped there.

John

I solved your problem: https://lmr.com/item/MCH-1410/1986-93-Mustang-March-Ram-Air-Kit

:mullet:

i still dont get how any hood mounted air intake can keep water out of the trottle body..?

i looked at the link, the box they offer seems like a silencer device that came stock in our cars, which many of us have removed by now to reduce static losses of air flow.

Nope. Sans that goofy scoop and hose the box in that kit flows more air than the stock airbox with the silencer removed, due to filter size. The conical filter that fits in the March box has a larger surface area than the panel filer in the stock airbox. Cut the snorkel off the end (like I did) and match the hole in the box to the fender opening and get even more air flow. Cougar 5.0 ran the same setup in the link with a Kenne Bell blower.

Paul had this killer writeup about how the stock airbox made more power then a cold air intake and a cone k&n filter up to about 400hp or something like that.

A k&n or cone style filter usually lets in a ton more dirt as well. On a street driven car, I would just leave the stock airbox.

Engine masters also did a very interesting intake and air filter dyno test, although for carbed engines. The results were actually pretty surprising. The winner was a k&n filter with a bunch of the filter taped off in a salad bowl.

For filter setup it depends on where it draws air from/how big the tubing is. Is a stock airbox (pulling cool air from the fender well) going to make more power than an un-shielded underhood conical filter? Yeah. Is the stock airbox going to make more power than a cold air kit with a smaller than stock filter, more bends, and smaller than stock inlet pipe? Yeah.

Is the March box and a conical filter going to get you more power? Not unless your engine needs it. Got GT40 heads/intake? Run the stock airbox. Got aluminum heads and or more cubes? Run something better. The MAF I'm running is set up for a conical filter clamped to the end. The March box is a great way to get the filter under the hood and shielded from any engine bay heat. It pulls air from the fender well and the plumbing back to the throttle body only has one bend. Less bends = less restriction = more power.

On the TC's the air flow through the openings actually just flow through the intercooler so it never actually leads to the throttlebody......

Also on the engine management, this is a nice system also....

http://www.stinger-performance.com/universalparts.html

Right now, the plan is to install the Trick Flow intake and related pieces as soon as time allows. I ordered a Walbro 255lph pump. I'll sell the Aeromotive pump at this point.

The new BBK CAI will go on at that time as well and I'll sell my current BBK CAI. I am sending Ed Curtis a message now about cams, and if these mods will upset the function of the current Ed Curtis cam. Stay tunes for a reply.

I wouldn't run a K&N (or any oil charged air filter) on any car with a MAF, or especially any kind or forced induction.  That oil ends up all over the MAF and skews it's readings one way cold, then the other way warm.  I see this every day at work.  There are lots of good high flow dry filters to choose from.  If you go back to NA Speed Density, have at it, there's nothing to mess up.

I haven't seen any oils on my MAF. All of that is fine. I'll check it out again when I pull the CAI to replace it with the new BBK kit. Going back to Speed Density isn't even being considered. The car is running well.

Much of that has to do with people over oiling the filter after cleaning it. If done correctly according to K&N's instructions it's fine. I've never had an issue.

The issue is the average person is quite stupid and doesn't follow directions.

Well, I tore the intake manifold, valve covers, coil, CAI, distributor and wires, and the radiator/fan assembly out of the Sport yesterday. I replaced the electric fan with a new Taurus piece, replaced the coil, and was about to install the new Trick Flow R lower intake and then I realized.....no gaskets for the lower intake. !!! Ran down town, no one had appropriate gaskets for the larger ports, so, I ordered a set from Summit yesterday evening, they should be here tomorrow. Then I can install the intake.

I pulled the Moroso Ultra 40 wires and installed Livewires on the distributor cap, I'll fit the new strut tower brace later. The new CAI is a pretty easy install as well. I still have other parts that need to go on, fuel pump, ignition box, master cylinder, clutch, rear CHE control arm bushings, MGW shifter, all brake pads, window motors, speedo gear, and Traction Lock.

One piece at a time and as always, it'll get done. I'm going to sell off my old CAI and probably the lower intake. It was TMoss ported. I'm keeping the GT40 upper to fab intake plates.More updates and pics later.

Always have all the parts before starting ;)

Yeah, I know. I know. LOL.

I always do......can't say that anymore. LOL. I may have been mistaken when I thought I had the lower intake gaskets. OR, I'll find them as soon as I button everything up. LOL.