I was driving the 84 Tbird this morning and all of a sudden it just died without warning, car has a 6 cyl motor with throttle body fuel injectors I took the fuel line to carb off so I could see if it was getting fuel and fuel was being supplied to the carb I then disconnected the cable that connects to the base of the carb and it started and It idled for appx 30 seconds then died on its own , any clues on why it wont start?
thats a CFI system.
first,,, do you have an electronic module on the side of the distributor?
either way,
verify you have spark
sounds to me like you proved you have "some fuel delivery.
1. This is a repeat thread
2. It is not necessary to make your OP from large bold text.
I'm not sure if this is a fuel or electric problem so posted in either forum until specific cause of problem can be found
Thank you for your reply I did not check the spark as I have no one here to help turn the ignition key while I examine spark in the engine compartment and my eyes are too bad to see it from that distance
feel free to give me a call at 304 772 3411,, i know those CFI systems well.
Again, do you have an electronic gizmo bolted to the side of your distributor? this is important.
if you do not,, then you are a DURASPARK system and YES you would likely then have a crank sensor.
If you do have a TFI module on the side of your distributor then you are an EECIV system which is good news.
To check for spark........
disconnect one of the easy spark plug wires on the same side as your coil.
insert a spare spark plug into the end, any old plug will do
Keep your ignition switch off for now
go get a screw driver
practice a couple times jumping your starter Relay large studs by shorting them together with your screw driver.
dont pansey around doing this,, dont be light handed or you will get a bunch of arc and spark. Just short the two studs by putting the screw driver on one stud,, and while keeping that stud in contact,, rotate around bo bring the other stud in the game,, but do it with authority,, dont be gentle. when done right there isnt but just a smidge of arc.
The result will be that you force the motor to spin over and over.
practice this so that you can make the engine rotate for 5 or 10 seconds.
now that you mastered jumping the starter relay.................
turn on the ignition switch.
hold the spark plug threads to a ground such as a strut tower threaded bolt head.... hold it there firm.
now jumper out your starter relay.
you should see spark happening on the temporary plug you inserted.
BLUE spark ok
yellow spark BAD
yellow spark is either a bad PIP or TFI.
TFI- easy to change but likely is not your problem.
Bad PIP.. requires you to pull the distributor,, take it apart to remove the PIP and then re install.....which means..............
the whole process of getting distributor properly removed and replaced.
let me know if i can help more.
it would likely be best to do this test with the leas amout of sunlight so you can judge the spark color
To be more specific,,,
first off we should be pulling your codes for you.
this can be done with a paper clip but are you a duraspark system or are you a EECIV system?
How many miles are on it? I had a 85 3.8 LTD act the same way when the timing chain/gears wore out. But it had almost 200k miles on it.
First things first, as Jcassity mentioned, the ignition module is a much more common failure. However, that's usually an all-or-nothing failure. It either starts and runs normal or it doesn't start at all; there's no "running bad" phase.
Thank you very much for your help and I looked at the distributor and it looks like there is a rectangular module on one side with a cable going out of it
Thank for your help as well and I had looked at the distributor and it looks like there is a rectangular module on one side with a cable going out of it
The car has appx 99,000 original miles
When I disconnected the cable wires at the base of the throttle body I was able to get the car to idle for appx 30 seconds when the wires were disconnected a friend who does not have a thunderbird suggested it might be dirty or clogged injectors and I should take them out and clean them is it possible injectors are the problem?
not sure if this is helpful but I believe the morning of the car dying and not running again it took a lot of cranks to get it started that morning
I would buy a spark tester. They are cheap.
When you connect it to the center wire on your distributor (coil wire), it should stick up high enough that you can see it from the drivers seat (looking through the gap under the hood when the hood is up).
I have owned several CFI fords, and I have never had any problems with the injectors themselves. That's just my experience though, not to say it doesn't happen. We really need to rule out that ignition module first. That's the most dead-common problem on these cars.
If you can't buy a spark tester, most advance/autozone places can test the ignition module. You just have to take it off and take it in there. It takes a very thin-wall socket to get it off, or the special "ignition module tool".
stop disconnecting that harness on the back of the CFI.
it will be a few red wires and brown. there is a red loop back jumper.
there is constant power to the injectors when the key is forward and the computer switches the ground off and on to the injectors.
The Pick up assembly down in the distributor also known as the PIP or Hull Effect does the same job as the points system. you have a finned object that spins around in the dizzy passing in front of the PIP and associated magnet down there.
one of your fins is skinny and that detects and locates cylinder #1 so the computer can know where the motor is at when spinning. Cyl 1 gets less spark than all the other cylinders so thats why sometimes plug 1 may appear different in burn color than the other plugs.
In all my years.... if you cant start the car at all then its the TFI- easy to change.
if after the car cools down and it starts up, its the PIP.
yes you can remove the injectors,, they are green top 35LB units. I just take out the tiny screen filter on them and toss em. not having injector screens will fix the problem all CFI guys have which is the famous "hesitation off the line" problem.
those factory injector screes collapse shut. ~~ think smashing a garden hose closed with your foot,, some water gets out but not all.
I highly do **NOT** suggest you remove the injectors intil you are ready. there are 4) phillups screws that need taken out and one or two of them always hell to undo.
check my diy link below,, your CFI base plate gasket which integrates the EGR is very important as well for good vac.
the CFI system is more simple than a Carb type car... easy to work on,, once you know the basics.
so,, as for the spark tester,,, i disagree, it wont show you the color of the spar, it will only show you a light bulb illuminating. Weak spark will still show you a light bulb.
you have to see that the spark is a "blue"ish" / White" looking spark. anyting other than that is telling you that the TFI is good and the PIP is bad.
usually when the PIP goes out,, the spark will be there but weak.
usually when there is no spark at all, the TFI is the problem.
Thank you all again for you help , I am more hopefull after hearing all this that it is the module rather than the injectors
since this has the external module on the distributor how do I check the code with a paper clip?
I was trying to find one locally no one has one , does anyone know the number of the correct TFI module for a 1984 3.8 thunderbird?
I tried using a paper clip like this youtube video showed to get some engine codes so I have some info but did not do it right
I had the battery out of the car charging for a day so wonder if it affected it
for code pulling click on my diy link,,, boat load of info in there but..........
i am back now,,,, been out of the office for the morning but got your VM, call back
My computer phone died during our conversation but I wanted to thank you for all your help and it was wonderful speaking to you on the phone as you had a ton of incredible info on these cars
I just came back in from doing the spark test ,
I got an old 2 cycle plug from one of my old 2 stroke Saabs and put it in the cable and jumped the starter and no spark of any type occurred when grounding it on the shock tower
just in case the plug was no good I popped a plug off my lawn mower which I knew was good and tried it again and again no spark
is it correct that it is more than likely the culprit is the external module on the distributor
does anyone know the correct part number for the TFI module I will need for my 1984 3.8 6 cylinder T-Bird?
Great news.. now you know your problem.
Get on Rock Auto and check a new one,, or go to the dealer,, they still sell them if you want one that will last another 30+ years
update?
Likely a drive by poster, long gone into the sunset...
Engine may be locked up by now, good possibility that indicator was for no oil pressure...
I didn't get the module yet , had a friend stop by and he said he wanted to check inside the dist cap
so he popped it off and saw the pick up on the inside edge had the rubber-like coating crumbling apart with large bits of it fallen down the dist , ha also saw that the metal tip of the rotor was bent when it hit a piece of the rubber debris
he said with no spark first thing to do is to check the coil then if it is ok then maybe replace the module inside the dist since it could have been damaged by the crumbling debris from the side pick up like the rotor was
The ones from the dealer aren't true Motorcraft anymore.