20th anny car here with AOD
gutted interior in order to remove and clean carpet and discovered something new.
car has sat since dec 2016 due to a deer hit.
car inherited a few odd ball symtoms while sitting such as:
High idle- fixed that = iac was stuck one way or the other,, suspect corrosion started to build up on the slider ball valve.
NO over drive & shifting points happened only at 2500rpm-fixed that= son must have floored the gas when he hit the deer in an OH moment and inverted the trans TV linkage where it was jammed in the WOT position.
driver power seat functions INOP.
driver seat has no motorized functions at all except heated seats relay does engage.
took cover off memory seat module and inside it i manually CLOSED the indivdual ice cube relays and all seat functions/motors work with memory module installed to specs.
I could not get any activity out of the door mounted memory seat set switches.
found no wiring problems on any of the connectors under the seat.
The LED light is not on at the memory seat module.
CB & power input with console switches manipulated arrive up to the input of the memory module mother board, i get power in at the memory module.
the console switches are upstream of the memory module. all motors are downstream of the memory module.
The expected memory module output cooresponding wire does not send DC volts out to the motors.
I have continuity on the main ground wire. I have not looked in the evtm to locate the actual ground lug point on chassis.
visual inspection of mother board and using a magnefying glass i can see no visual problems.
any help appreciated , perhaps i need to check something else?
I did notice and dont understand why i have a conductor called out in the evtm to go out to the transmission speed sensor!
memory seat module does not get warm anywhere when i make/close & hold closed for a long period of time one of the console seat control switches.
as a temp solve, i manually closed various ice cube relays on the memory module by hand to position the seat where its most comfortable. This way i can install the driver seat
without a memory module.
I want to ship this off to someone else to verify on thier car it is bad or good,,, and/or locate a memory module someone may have in thier d for sale if possible.
I have the driver seat set now so the wife or I can be seated comfortably.
oddly i dont think i remember this thing acting up prior to the deer hit.
Here is a write-up from the '93 Continental shop manual.
I am guessing the speed sensor input to the control module is to keep you from recalling a different seat position while the car is moving.
The Continental does this by requiring the trans be in park or neutral.
It also says the seat sensors can keep it from working.
that last sentence is my exact problem.
I better try to look for these sensors they speak of on the sseat track before i bolt down the drivers seat.
thanks!
I looked all through my shop manuals last night and found nothing,,,, **NOT A SINGLE DOcumENT** pretaining to memory seats.
which shop manual can i find info on this system?
Also, i was completely unaware of any seat track sensors but i will take your word for it. I am unable to find any seat track sensor info unless i am not looking in the right manual.
Is there a seat presure switch in these cars?,, seems i recall someone here years ago talking of such a thing.
The blurb I posted is from the '93 continental shop manual. I should have done more studying before I posted it.
Looking at the '87 Tbird/Coug EVTM, I don't see any sensor inputs to the drivers seat memory module.(other that the speed sensor)
Sorry.
Been comparing the 87 and 93 EVTMs. The wire colors and circuit numbers match up between the two.
87 EVTM page 192. Drivers seat motor assembly at the bottom. The 93 EVTM shows three hall effect sensors as part of that assembly.
87 EVTM page 195. There are two unlabeled cable connectors on the memory module. I think one of them is for the seat motors. Check wire color codes on page 192.
The other unlabeled connector?? The 93 EVTM shows the sensor wire codes as: GY/BK R/W R/LG Y/LB
Is the starter relay hooked up?
I think maybe the memory neutral module (page 193) needs to see ground (through the starter relay) on circuit 32 R/LB, when the ignition switch is NOT in START.
LOL ,, wow...
the infamous RED / Light blue wire.
man do i have a boat load of time converting a CFI 87 V6 to a V8 dealing with that wire and the path it takes around the world to include the transmission harness. it actually changes colors completely.
Yes the starter relay is connected. I have been driving the car very often since after the paint work.
87evtm page 194 calls out memory neutral module as being under the drivers seat.
it implies it is a separate module but there is nothing else but the memory seat module.
perhaps the memory neutral module is a part of the memory seat module.?
i am going to speculate that the neutral module just might be a part of the huge ass switch assembly on the actual door itself. hate to do it but i need to take that door panel back off and see if i hurt a wire on the memory seat button assembly. there are a bunch of wires going to it.
perhaps the evtm is wrong showing the Neutral module as a different item?
The 93 EVTM does not have a memory neutral module. The same wires just go to the memory module, except there is no speed sensor wire.
The reason I suspected the R/LB wire is because the 98 EVTM taps into it between the ignition switch and the neutral safety switch. So the NSS has to be closed for it to "see" the starter relay ground. This is why they say you must be in Park or Neutral before you can "recall" a different seat position.
From the 93 shop manual: there is a white self test button on top of the module. Push the button and the led should blink 4 to 6 times if all is good.
If there are no blinks or less than 4 or more than 6 something is bad.
If bad, there is an "out of vehicle" test procedure to see if it is the module or something external to the module. I'll hold off on posting this procedure until you see if you need it.
I think the memory neutral module is the single wire red/LB jumpered connector shown. none of the other wires are in the game per the EVTM.
another shot showing all connectors plugged in.
I had one connector that just lost its integrity compeletly so i temp mocked up the connections.
Man, you have that thing down to parade rest.
Self test disabled? I guess you can forget that test.
Pics
The second pic looks like a factory delete of the memory neutral module.
Can you back-probe the R/LB wire for 12v while cranking?
i wanted to but the sky looked mean and ready to dump on me.
buttoned up everything on the car including the omitting of the memory seat module.
your pointing to an "output wire i think..
shouldnt i back probe an input red/lb wire for 12v in "start"?
what you are seeing is a group of 5 wires that was a part of a six pin connector that failed.
not sure what your shrink tube comment in the pic was?
sorry softtouch,, im gonna get that red/blue question answered tomorrow.
i have to understand more about "WHICH" red blue wire that i know you want me to check.
for the heck of it,, i decided to pull codes since having taken out my memory seat module i get a check engine light.
this is an 87 5.0L
currently and over the past two years i have had two oxegen sensors simply plugged in and hanging in the engine bay.
i have gotten 25mpg easy and no check engine light till this memory seat module thing came up ,, which came up only after my son hit a deer.
Active codes are:
82 2.3L TC - Fan Control wire shorted to ground - A/C and Fan Circuits
AIRB solenoid - Solenoids and Air Injection
memory codes are:
29 Vehicle Speed Sensor problem - VSS
34 EVP - (R) EGR did not respond properly during test - EVP
EVR - (O, R, M) EVP sensor is/was high - EVR
PFE - (O, R, M) PFE sensor is/was out of range - PFE
41 (R) System lean - Fuel control
(M) System was lean for 15 seconds or more (no HO2S switching) - Fuel control
91 (R, M) System running lean - Fuel control
Transmission SS 1 circuit/solenoid problem - Transmissions
update
there is a single wire jumper brown connector shown in earlier pics which represent a memory neutral module.
i just looked close and that jumper is really specific. so specific that ford actually put "FORD" on the wire and an E7 part number ,, all this info directly on the wire itself.
to the red light blue question............
when in start, battery voltage is present on the Red light blue wire coming into the connector.
the shown jumper is a special named ford red light blue as well.
the the ford red blue jumper connects to a red / white.
the red / white wire travels under the carpet up to a gray 12 pin connector.
this red/white wire changes back to red light blue which then terminates on the PCB of the memory module.
with the key in the cranking or start position, i have battery voltage present all the way up to the PCB of the memory seat module.
oddly,, i have a VSS code mentioned in the previous post!! yet no speedo malfunction is noticed. maybe ill pull the codes on my speedo.
does anyone know of a good forum to bring this issue to that might have more insight?
i have questions like "if the door switch push botton system is not in the game", will the console functions still operate etc.
i think the answer is yes to my question.
so a bench test can be done if i am able to use the basics,, power input, provide an input and output ground, then apply 12vdc to the respective motor inputs and expect a relay to ciick then expect 12dc output to the coordinated expected wire color.
maybe this is uncharted territory,, nothing on the web is found yet using my various searches.
There must be sensor inputs for the memory module to know where the seat is located.
The main seat motor assembly has three motors. It should also have three sensors as a part of this assembly.
You should have two cables coming from this motor assembly to the memory module.
One of the cables is for the motors. Get the color codes from your EVTM.
The other cable is for the sensors. It should have five wires. A voltage reference and signal return to the three sensors and three sense wires.
If the memory module doesn't see the sensors, nothing works.
These sensors don't require any mechanical motion to have an output. They can be used as a "proximity" sensor to detect a nearby magnetic field and to measure how far away it is. ( This is what I have concluded on how it must work after reading a bunch of stuff.)
Diagram for 97 Explorer:
Will look again
I am looking more closely now.. the memory seat setup has been that one mystery that i didnt care about till now.
I see that for memory seat ford made the motors separate from thier respective gear box.
the motor has a cable that drive its very own gear box.
there are three wires on each gear box which i expect would be the hall effect sensors.
so......... it appears the seats position is infact like what you said,,,, seat track sensors are actually there just not on the track but on the gear box cable plug in connector.
see attached.
all these hall effect wires go to one connector. there are three wires on each of the three gear boxes.
inside the wire loom as the hall effect sensors travel as input signals to the memory seat, some of the wires are spliced together as "common".
they all arrive on a gray 8 pin connector.
"Yes" to your edited photo asking me if the sensors are in the heat shrink tubing.
now to figure out which of these three are getting zero signal.
since the EVTM does not show these three conductors job, i will find out on a single gear box which one represents the windings and which one represents the wiper.
at that point i should be able to maniuplate the signal on the defective one to allow manual seat controls to work.
next i will have to figure out how that connector comes off in order to attempt a repair if needed.
IN one group of 3 yellows which splice to one yellow ,, the single splice end fell of so i cant be sure this was me who broke it or the connection was on the outs.
all the splces are cad welds.
Actually the first thing i will do is reterminate all the wiring and jumper around the splices,, then wiggle test the hall effect connetors while i manually make/break seat controls.
im thinking that when i find the issues be it intermittant or what have you ,, i will get a red LED light to atleast come on showing a fault.
I would assume that this memory seat setup has to be in another Ford product of the same era. I doubt they would go through the trouble of creating a system just for the 87 20th. If you could find out what other car has the system (probably some Lincoln) there may be a more detailed testing procedure in the shop manual for that particular car.
I agree,
other Linc Cont forums keep telling me there is no way my system i provided pictures of is stock to a ford!!
THey keep saying that i Must have a Neutral module as a separate item.
the color codes to the N module match to the single wire jumper connector i show inside the center console which is special ink stamped with a ford pn.
I am speculating that the system may be infact the first run of its kind and perhaps was only a two year deal in the 87/88 birds and cougs only.
its not matching anything else out there
Here is a quick wiring diagram not included in the evtm with respect to the gear box sensors.
the motor(s) drive a cable.
the cable turns and thus the gearbox moves.
the three wires on each gear box have two commons and one separate wire.
From the bonded group of Y/G qty 3 to the bonded group of Y/B qty 3 i have 10mg ohms.
From the bonded group of Y/BL to the G/BK & to the R/W and the R/Y i have about 10mg each
from the bonded group of Y/G to the G/BK & to the R/W and to the R/Y i have an open circuit.
see quick sketch below.
while the system was re-installed today i made an oem splice repair and performed a wiggle test of all the seat position sensors.
nothing positive to report.
there happens to be something that looks like an onboard battery on the motherboard. its called "CR xxxx " something. not sure on the actual board nomenclature but seems like the right size to be a coin type battery cell. I had no battery in my 20th for about 10 months.
this thingy i call out is in one of my pics if you look,, its round and red near a 90deg heat sync.
I just glanced at the 88evtm link in my sig to see if that diagram offers more detail...
apparently there is more info in 88 than in 87.
the 88evtm says to ref shop manual 41-08 for more troubleshooting / diag tests.
hummm
wonder who has an 88 shop manual set??????????????????????????
looked again,,, 85 and 86 evtm index does not call out memory seats diagrams. It shows up in 87. its revised somehow in 88.
my motor pn in one of my pics show the to be 86 "E6".
Im thinking the engineering for memory seat was done during 86 in order to make ready new orders for Q1 fy87.
interesting softtouch,, the explorer diagram also shows the hall effects gathering up as 5 individual conductors as well. ,,, matches 87 layout but colors are not.
The memory neutral module was engineered out of the picture. The EVTM says C457 is a brown 6 pin connector. This the connector that has the jumper.
The "hot in start" R/LB ckt 32 now goes directly to the seat memory module. This is how it's shown in later model cars.
This requires the trans to be in park or neutral before you can "recall" a seat position from the memory module.
This is a safety thing. You don't want a 5'2'' wife to accidently push a button and move the seat to her 6'2'' husbands' position while she is driving. This may move her out of reach of the pedals.
The two wires that go all the sensors are a reference voltage and a signal return(ground) supplied by the seat memory module.
It would be a good idea to see what voltages you have on the 5 sensor wires.
By the way, I don't see any keyed power to this memory seat stuff. Looks like it only has "hot at all times" power.
Fuse 8 and fuse 12 supply this power.
The 93 Continental EVTM shows a Start Button next to the LED on the seat memory module for running self tests.
Yours has a label saying this feature is disabled. Looks like you are out of luck there.
I thought the same when it was back installed, now its again removed but im getting pretty good and quick at re installing.
besides,, if i install again, might as well fix one of my seat bolt anchor nuts.
wtg to see if the assist on shop manuals for 88 come through on my other electrical tech post.
apparently after some coaxing and proding,, i just found out i have shop manual 41-08.
I originally looked inside my shop manual called "ELECTRICAL" "Part 1 of 2 Vol B".
I found electrical information pertaining to memory seats inside another book titled
"BODY" "PART 2 of 2 Vol B".
I think ford messed up because these wiring diagrams appear in the very first initial pages of part2 of Vol B and i think they actually wanted them to be in Part 1 of vol b.