Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: CougarGal on November 10, 2016, 09:55:04 AM
Post by: CougarGal on November 10, 2016, 09:55:04 AM
Hoping someone can offer advise:
The turn signal/dimmer switch in my 86 Mercury Cougar broke so that my turn signals would not work. I purchased a brand new OEM switch to replace it and once it was installed, my brake lights wouldn't work. Put the old switch back in and the brake lights work just fine. What on earth could be causing this and is there any way around it? I always use my turn signals but, in having to choose, I've had to settle for brake lights :( HELP!!!!!
The turn signal/dimmer switch in my 86 Mercury Cougar broke so that my turn signals would not work. I purchased a brand new OEM switch to replace it and once it was installed, my brake lights wouldn't work. Put the old switch back in and the brake lights work just fine. What on earth could be causing this and is there any way around it? I always use my turn signals but, in having to choose, I've had to settle for brake lights :( HELP!!!!!
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: jcassity on November 10, 2016, 11:12:31 AM
Post by: jcassity on November 10, 2016, 11:12:31 AM
something is odd here...
probable faults
-replacement switch is incorrectly manufactured (highly unlikely as these units were fairily cookie cutter universal for several years never changing in design).
-old switch allows brakes to work but one of the internal contacts is open when turn is selected.
-existing bulbs are installed wrong being that just one of the brake / turn bulbs being backwards will cause odd tail lamp behavior
~quick story then you go check..........
once upon a time i had several issues with tail lamps acting up leading me to think a bad turn signal sw on down to flasher being bad or worse a wiring issue somewhere.
The sockets on the rear of these cars that take th dual element bulbs like 1157's become somewhat soft on the interior where the bulb goes in.
This can cause the person putting the bulb in to put the bulb in backwards. the dual element bulbs have two alignment tits that are offset to prevent backwards installation yet they ***CAN*** be installed backwards and in return you get all kinds of odd results leaving you feeling very frustrated.
This same issue was kicking my ass and i good with electrical stuff. I totally raped the tail end lighting and pulled out every single bulb. once i was ready, i determined which socket was lefft turn, i placed the turnsignal handle to left turn, inserted my bulb and then learned that the bulbe came super bright and did not flash, yet flipping the bulb 180 deg and re-installing the other way produced a single element to light. right next to this turn bulb i installed the next bulb and got it right on first try and left turn worked.
I extracted my left turn bulbs and moved these "known good" bulbs to the passanger side. I selected right turn and installed the two bulbs correctly giving me a right turn result.
Long story short,, if you or anyone has replaced tail lamp bulbs in 87 and down cars, the sockets become soft and could have allowed you to install them backwards. Just installing on single bulb in the rear will screw everything up. it will also blow fuse depending on what position your headlamp switch is in.
call if talking through it helps,,, 304 772 3411, scott
probable faults
-replacement switch is incorrectly manufactured (highly unlikely as these units were fairily cookie cutter universal for several years never changing in design).
-old switch allows brakes to work but one of the internal contacts is open when turn is selected.
-existing bulbs are installed wrong being that just one of the brake / turn bulbs being backwards will cause odd tail lamp behavior
~quick story then you go check..........
once upon a time i had several issues with tail lamps acting up leading me to think a bad turn signal sw on down to flasher being bad or worse a wiring issue somewhere.
The sockets on the rear of these cars that take th dual element bulbs like 1157's become somewhat soft on the interior where the bulb goes in.
This can cause the person putting the bulb in to put the bulb in backwards. the dual element bulbs have two alignment tits that are offset to prevent backwards installation yet they ***CAN*** be installed backwards and in return you get all kinds of odd results leaving you feeling very frustrated.
This same issue was kicking my ass and i good with electrical stuff. I totally raped the tail end lighting and pulled out every single bulb. once i was ready, i determined which socket was lefft turn, i placed the turnsignal handle to left turn, inserted my bulb and then learned that the bulbe came super bright and did not flash, yet flipping the bulb 180 deg and re-installing the other way produced a single element to light. right next to this turn bulb i installed the next bulb and got it right on first try and left turn worked.
I extracted my left turn bulbs and moved these "known good" bulbs to the passanger side. I selected right turn and installed the two bulbs correctly giving me a right turn result.
Long story short,, if you or anyone has replaced tail lamp bulbs in 87 and down cars, the sockets become soft and could have allowed you to install them backwards. Just installing on single bulb in the rear will screw everything up. it will also blow fuse depending on what position your headlamp switch is in.
call if talking through it helps,,, 304 772 3411, scott
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: CougarGal on November 10, 2016, 12:01:51 PM
Post by: CougarGal on November 10, 2016, 12:01:51 PM
Quote from: jcassity;457775
...
Long story short,, if you or anyone has replaced tail lamp bulbs in 87 and down cars, the sockets become soft and could have allowed you to install them backwards. Just installing on single bulb in the rear will screw everything up. it will also blow fuse depending on what position your headlamp switch is in.
call if talking through it helps,,, 304 772 3411, scott
Thanks for all that lengthy explanation jcassity!! I'm assuming that all my bulbs are in correctly as they work just fine with the old switch and only the brake lights fail with the new switch. Tail lights work fine with both switches and turn signals work beautifully and automatically with the new switch but I have to hold the turn signal lever either up or down to activate the signals with the old broken switch. It's driving me NUTS!!
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: jcassity on November 10, 2016, 12:43:45 PM
Post by: jcassity on November 10, 2016, 12:43:45 PM
the new switch would have ink stamping on it.
beginning with E4 , e5 or e6
E= 1980's
number for the year.
some parts are used over several years
post the "E" number up
beginning with E4 , e5 or e6
E= 1980's
number for the year.
some parts are used over several years
post the "E" number up
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: jcassity on November 10, 2016, 01:01:19 PM
Post by: jcassity on November 10, 2016, 01:01:19 PM
in short i gather this......
-old switch caused turn function to not work *only*
-new switch makes turn function work but causes brake lights to not work
i agree,, sketchy
-old switch caused turn function to not work *only*
-new switch makes turn function work but causes brake lights to not work
i agree,, sketchy
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: CougarGal on November 10, 2016, 01:28:42 PM
Post by: CougarGal on November 10, 2016, 01:28:42 PM
Quote from: jcassity;457778
post the "E" number up
Looks like this:
E5 LC
I3B302-AA
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: CougarGal on November 10, 2016, 01:30:26 PM
Post by: CougarGal on November 10, 2016, 01:30:26 PM
Quote from: jcassity;457782
in short i gather this......
-old switch caused turn function to not work *only*
-new switch makes turn function work but causes brake lights to not work
i agree,, sketchy
Correct. Old switch cause turn signals not to work properly because a little metal piece inside it has broken. Have NO clue why the new one kills my brake lights (not the '3rd' brake light over the package shelf, just the rear bumper ones :(
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: Aerocoupe on November 10, 2016, 02:20:56 PM
Post by: Aerocoupe on November 10, 2016, 02:20:56 PM
I found this turn singal switch on RockAuto with the part number you provided and it has it listed as an alternate/OEM part number:
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=936601&cc=1198537&jsn=384
Is that the one you ordered? Also, can you find a part number on the original switch?
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=936601&cc=1198537&jsn=384
Is that the one you ordered? Also, can you find a part number on the original switch?
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: CougarGal on November 10, 2016, 02:44:43 PM
Post by: CougarGal on November 10, 2016, 02:44:43 PM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;457788
I found this turn singal switch on RockAuto with the part number you provided and it has it listed as an alternate/OEM part number:
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=936601&cc=1198537&jsn=384
Is that the one you ordered? Also, can you find a part number on the original switch?
The one I have that won't work my brake lights is a brand new OEM Ford part :( I'll take a look at the one on RockAuto to see if the connectors are the same (I've actually bought a couple that were SUPPOSED to be for my car that had different connector pins and wouldn't work at all :(
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: jcassity on November 10, 2016, 08:56:17 PM
Post by: jcassity on November 10, 2016, 08:56:17 PM
this is for 87 year but likely the same... pin out and testing is provided
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: CougarGal on November 11, 2016, 09:35:21 AM
Post by: CougarGal on November 11, 2016, 09:35:21 AM
Quote from: jcassity;457799
this is for 87 year but likely the same... Pin out and testing is provided
thanks!!!!!!
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: jcassity on November 11, 2016, 10:00:55 AM
Post by: jcassity on November 11, 2016, 10:00:55 AM
this switch does come apart if you are good at that kind of stuff.
i had to recently take one apart to fix the handle
i had to recently take one apart to fix the handle
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: jcassity on November 11, 2016, 10:07:45 AM
Post by: jcassity on November 11, 2016, 10:07:45 AM
here is a link relating to this switch ,,
in my case i am showing people that for was not correct in saying to replace a broken handle, all you do is yank real hard.
if you do, then the small parts will fall into the switch.
if on your old switch the turn lever easily came out then we may be on to something.... something "fixable" on your old switch.
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?37543-Solved-*NO*-you-dont-just-yank-real-hard-Turn-Signal-Handle
in my case i am showing people that for was not correct in saying to replace a broken handle, all you do is yank real hard.
if you do, then the small parts will fall into the switch.
if on your old switch the turn lever easily came out then we may be on to something.... something "fixable" on your old switch.
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?37543-Solved-*NO*-you-dont-just-yank-real-hard-Turn-Signal-Handle
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: CougarGal on November 11, 2016, 01:16:29 PM
Post by: CougarGal on November 11, 2016, 01:16:29 PM
Quote from: jcassity;457814
here is a link relating to this switch ,,
in my case i am showing people that for was not correct in saying to replace a broken handle, all you do is yank real hard.
if you do, then the small parts will fall into the switch.
if on your old switch the turn lever easily came out then we may be on to something.... something "fixable" on your old switch.
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?37543-Solved-*NO*-you-dont-just-yank-real-hard-Turn-Signal-Handle
WOW!!! Thanks a million for THAT!! I, of course, have been doing it wrong :(
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: CougarGal on November 11, 2016, 01:20:03 PM
Post by: CougarGal on November 11, 2016, 01:20:03 PM
Quote from: jcassity;457813
this switch does come apart if you are good at that kind of stuff.
i had to recently take one apart to fix the handle
My husband is the electrical guru (he added new relays and wiring to take most of the current off this switch for my headlights and fog lights). I can now have, low-beams or high-beams with my fogs or just my fogs with no headlights at all. I sent your diagram to him so he can maybe figure out what that brand new switch is killing my brake lights. If he can't, I'll just have to buy another one and hope it doesn't do the same thing :(
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: Thunder Chicken on November 11, 2016, 02:44:37 PM
Post by: Thunder Chicken on November 11, 2016, 02:44:37 PM
I'm hunting right now so I'm away from my wiring diagrams. I think I know where the problem is and how to test it, but it'll have to wait until I have my diagrams handy (typing this on my phone right now), probably late tomorrow night or on Sunday.
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: CougarGal on November 14, 2016, 01:54:26 PM
Post by: CougarGal on November 14, 2016, 01:54:26 PM
Quote from: thunder chicken;457820
i'm hunting right now so i'm away from my wiring diagrams. I think i know where the problem is and how to test it, but it'll have to wait until i have my diagrams handy (typing this on my phone right now), probably late tomorrow night or on sunday.
thanks!!!
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: jcassity on November 16, 2016, 08:59:30 AM
Post by: jcassity on November 16, 2016, 08:59:30 AM
update?
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: CougarGal on November 16, 2016, 09:55:36 AM
Post by: CougarGal on November 16, 2016, 09:55:36 AM
Quote from: jcassity;457946
update?
Still using the old switch (no turn signals but, at least, my brake lights work). I've got another switch on the way (used from an 86 TC). Once I know I've got one that everything works on, I'll get the numbers off of that one and then see about trying to figure out why my brake lights won't work with the NOS OEM one. Going to be putting all your diagrams and advice to good use by this weekend.
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: Thunder Chicken on November 16, 2016, 04:51:57 PM
Post by: Thunder Chicken on November 16, 2016, 04:51:57 PM
shiznit, I'd forgotten about this. I will consult my diagrams later tonight, but the main thing I was going to say was to compare the wiring connector on the car and the wiring connector on the new switch. Make sure there is a terminal on the switch in each place there is a terminal on the car's harness. Also make sure there are no bent over terminals in the new switch. The car's wiring harness should have a light green (I think, going on memory here) wire in it that goes "hot" with the brake pedal pressed. This wire feeds into the turn signal switch and the turn signal switch in turn sends the power out to the tail lights. If you've got a switch designed for a car with amber turn signals it might not have this circuit. I'm thinking that the problem is either this or a bent over terminal in the switch because if it was an actual problem in the switch it'd likely only affect one brake light. Your third brake light is still working because this signal does not go through the switch.
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: Thunder Chicken on November 16, 2016, 08:03:44 PM
Post by: Thunder Chicken on November 16, 2016, 08:03:44 PM
Can't find my EVTM's and Mitchell wiring diagrams suck for old cars, but what I said above should pretty much sum it up. I'm pretty sure the wire between the brake pedal and turn signal switch is green. It might have a red stripe, but not sure.
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: Haystack on November 16, 2016, 08:07:53 PM
Post by: Haystack on November 16, 2016, 08:07:53 PM
It is green with a red strip going out of the pedal so I beleive you are correct.
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: jcassity on November 16, 2016, 09:22:22 PM
Post by: jcassity on November 16, 2016, 09:22:22 PM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;457975
Can't find my EVTM's and Mitchell wiring diagrams suck for old cars, but what I said above should pretty much sum it up. I'm pretty sure the wire between the brake pedal and turn signal switch is green. It might have a red stripe, but not sure.
Yo!,,
you always have EVTMs,, just look down below at my sig bone head..:rollin:
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: jcassity on November 16, 2016, 09:25:38 PM
Post by: jcassity on November 16, 2016, 09:25:38 PM
TC,,
keep in mind that her hubby also did up some slave relay mods as well.,,not that this has any possible way of being in question,, it may however if the new switch is not correct.
hell, if the new switch isnt right, is really hard to tell what wire power is being shoved down.
keep in mind that her hubby also did up some slave relay mods as well.,,not that this has any possible way of being in question,, it may however if the new switch is not correct.
hell, if the new switch isnt right, is really hard to tell what wire power is being shoved down.
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: softtouch on November 17, 2016, 01:26:10 AM
Post by: softtouch on November 17, 2016, 01:26:10 AM
86 evtm
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: CougarGal on November 17, 2016, 09:48:15 AM
Post by: CougarGal on November 17, 2016, 09:48:15 AM
WOW!! You guys are the BEST!!! Evidently the new switch, even though it all plugged up, is missing a something. Not sure what it is yet but hubby is planning to take it apart and do a stare and compare with the diagrams and information from you to see if he can locate the issue and maybe correct it (I REALLY liked the feel of the brand new switch :) Got another one sitting on the kitchen island and hubby is going to install it this weekend. Wish us luck that I can have brake lights AND turn signals again!!!
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: V8Demon on November 17, 2016, 05:19:54 PM
Post by: V8Demon on November 17, 2016, 05:19:54 PM
There were 2 different switches. I cannot remember what the differences are. Went through this a few years ago.
I'm pretty sure there's a thread someone here about it. I'll search when I get home. Searching via my phone is futile.
I'm pretty sure there's a thread someone here about it. I'll search when I get home. Searching via my phone is futile.
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: CougarGal on November 18, 2016, 10:28:47 AM
Post by: CougarGal on November 18, 2016, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: V8Demon;457999
There were 2 different switches. I cannot remember what the differences are. Went through this a few years ago.
I'm pretty sure there's a thread someone here about it. I'll search when I get home. Searching via my phone is futile.
Well, that figures :( You can bet that the new one I got is the 'wrong' one for my car.
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: V8Demon on November 19, 2016, 08:48:24 AM
Post by: V8Demon on November 19, 2016, 08:48:24 AM
I was incorrect.
I was thinking of the main headlamp switch. For 1986 there were actually THREE main headlamp switches depending on options.....
Anyway, that's of no use to you concerning this particular issue.
The turn signal/hazard switch should have a Ford part # of E7SZ-11654-A.
Looking around RearCounter.com states 2 sellers have it; Green Auto Sales and Dennis Carpenter. Browsing their websites showed nothing though...I'd call direct.
Green Sales
(513) 294-8385
2172 Seymour Avenue
Cincinnati, Ohio 45237
Dennis Carpenter
(800) 476-9653
(704) 786-8139
4140 Concord Parkway, S.
Concord, North Carolina 28027
Perusing Ebay showed some switches with alternate part #'s that SUPPOSEDLY work......
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=1986+cougar+switch&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X1986+cougar+signal+switch.TRS0&_nkw=1986+cougar+signal+switch&_sacat=0
Hope this helps.
I was thinking of the main headlamp switch. For 1986 there were actually THREE main headlamp switches depending on options.....
Anyway, that's of no use to you concerning this particular issue.
The turn signal/hazard switch should have a Ford part # of E7SZ-11654-A.
Looking around RearCounter.com states 2 sellers have it; Green Auto Sales and Dennis Carpenter. Browsing their websites showed nothing though...I'd call direct.
Green Sales
(513) 294-8385
2172 Seymour Avenue
Cincinnati, Ohio 45237
Dennis Carpenter
(800) 476-9653
(704) 786-8139
4140 Concord Parkway, S.
Concord, North Carolina 28027
Perusing Ebay showed some switches with alternate part #'s that SUPPOSEDLY work......
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=1986+cougar+switch&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X1986+cougar+signal+switch.TRS0&_nkw=1986+cougar+signal+switch&_sacat=0
Hope this helps.
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: AlabamaWildman on November 27, 2016, 03:35:45 PM
Post by: AlabamaWildman on November 27, 2016, 03:35:45 PM
Hello All !!
I just wanted to add something into the mix on CougarGal's Turn Signal / Brake Issue.
(Married to Her ... so ... hoping to figure this one out )
I just found out one more snag to the situation. She had purchased a 'new' multifunction switch, from one of You Fine Folks, and had the new one installed and wanted to test it.
Her Brake lights worked as designed ... but the Turn Signal Arm seemed Stuck in the center position. I removed it and noticed the Detent,
that holds the gearing in-place for the Turn Signal to move between positions, was split.
Sadly ... this isn't the first time this has happened and I was curious if the cause was something, either, on the Steering Column, in the Switch Design
or am I doing something wrong ??
Thanks ! !!
I just wanted to add something into the mix on CougarGal's Turn Signal / Brake Issue.
(Married to Her ... so ... hoping to figure this one out )
I just found out one more snag to the situation. She had purchased a 'new' multifunction switch, from one of You Fine Folks, and had the new one installed and wanted to test it.
Her Brake lights worked as designed ... but the Turn Signal Arm seemed Stuck in the center position. I removed it and noticed the Detent,
that holds the gearing in-place for the Turn Signal to move between positions, was split.
Sadly ... this isn't the first time this has happened and I was curious if the cause was something, either, on the Steering Column, in the Switch Design
or am I doing something wrong ??
Thanks ! !!
Title: Brake lights problems
Post by: jcassity on November 28, 2016, 04:09:49 PM
Post by: jcassity on November 28, 2016, 04:09:49 PM
im not really certain i have seen that happen. My only multi function switch issues have been broken handle and the proper mod per my prior link to fix this issue.