The car has issues starting but once you get it going it runs fine. If you let it idle for a while it will stall then you can't get it to start. I did the self diagnostics test and got 11 at first then I couldn't tell if it was giving me code 84 or 184 anyone have any idea? It apparently has a new fuel pump I couldn't get the car to run long but the fuel pressure gauge was at 30
Update I was getting her to start then she died again so I checked the fuel pressure and was getting nothing
There is a small rubber hose that connects the fuel pump to the fuel hat and lines. Sometimes that goes bad.
If the pump is running and you can hear it making nose when you cycle the key on and off, it could be that. See if it will fire up on starting fluid just to make sure it is fuel and not spark related. The computer needs to run to fire the fuel pump relay.
In the mean time, google sbftech efi no start and run through the steps there. It will pinpoint the problem, if it is wiring or electrical and help you troubleshoot fuel problems. Come back here and ask if you have any questions.
Thank you very much
OK so new fuel filter didn't do anything I think I can here the fuel pump hum when I turn the key I for sure here the relays click then a hum also I couldn't get the starter fluid to do anything idk if I'm too slow or what
Well did a fuel pressure test again and got 35 psi key on and 45 when starting no spark I guess?
The injectors will not fire if you have no spark.
http://sbftech.com/index.php?topic=588.0
Again, this will tell you exactly what is wrong. It takes 10-20 minutes and all you need is a volt meter or test light and a few basic tools.
Test said to check a yellow or tan wire at the coil I don't have one?? I have a green and a red and both light up the tester hooked to the - post there is a transistor that is taped up also idk if that has anything to do I was able to get signals from all the icm posts so far all I can think it is is the icm coil or pip
Did you test the spark by rotating the dist?
Essentially, the computer can only "see" when the #1 cylinder fires and uses that signal to sequentially fire all the other injectors. All the pip does is marks that #1 notch. The tfi module is basically the timing computer that takes additional load off of the computer calculating the signal.
When you rotate the dist back and forth you should get a distinctive click. That click is the pip detecting movement and the computer firing an injector. If you can, unplug or back probe an injector and rotate the dist back and forth. If you aren't getting any light, either the pip or tfi module is bad or you have a wiring issue inbetween.
I have had exactly one aftermarket tfi module die on me, I have never had a factory one die. They usually get weak before they completely fail and heat up quickly. Most good autoparts stores can test the tfi module but a pip often needs either disassembly of the dist for replacement or a whole new dist. I usually hit a junkyard and try to find a wrecked car and use that dist for a dead to nuts verification that it was the problem.
There are ways to generally test the tfi and pip, but if one is bad, I would replace both.
I also forgot to mention the guy I bought it from had a new distributor put on
I did all the tests everything passed so then it would be the stator or tfi. I can here and injector clicking
OK so it passed all the test which leaves me with the stator and the tfi. Ik where the tfi is but I'm not sure about the stator. I put a new ignition coil on and it started and ran fine I even shut it off and started it again but I came but 10 minutes later and no start again
Usually points to tfi or pip. As they heat up they fail. Stator is another name for the pip. It's got the small wire hooked up inside the dist under everything. Usually the whole dist needs to come apart to replace it.
http://web.archive.org/web/20131229164521/http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=25
More info on stator.
Well new icm new ignition coil new distributor still no spark. It sounds like it's starting when you turn key off after trying to start it?
I found a plug with a yellow and red wire not plugged into anything looks just like another plug that's plugged inot with a green and black wire right besides the distributor
Sounds like a bad ignition switch (in the column) to me.
I thought that but it did start twice when I put the new coil on and I tried the new coil b4 I mounted it when I came back and mounted it it wouldn't start?
Could it be an eec power relay?
If you have fuel pressure then the eec is turning on, being as the eec turns on the fuel pump.
I'm really, really confused here. If everything checked out according to the efi troubleshooting walkthrough, then everything is functioning fine except for the tfi or pip (stator). In theory at least. So either everything is fine, or you might have overlooked something when you did the troubleshooting. There are quite a few things that could be wrong, and quite a few things that can stop a car from running, but there are only a few things that control fuel and spark. If it doesn't start with starting fluid, you do not have a fuel problem.
All I can say is try to run through that trouble shooting list again and make sure you didn't skip anything.
Still wouldn't rule it out. This forum's full of threads with folks having weird/intermittent problems that ended up stemming from the column ignition switch. Charging system quit working when my switch went out, but seems there are no typical symptoms. Any one of the many contacts within the switch could be too oxidized to conduct, causing different issues. Might as well replace it if you haven't - it's cheap, easy, and the old one
will fail sooner than later.
Alright I'll try the ignition switch and I'll run through the tests again. It's wierd that it had problems when I bought it drove it home then just couldn't get it drivable again it's started a couple times but anytime I have it gas it would die then no start
Best of luck. If nothing else, it'll firm up the feel of the ignition and be one less thing to break.
Well new ignition switch still no spark I can here the injectors click when I turn the distributor back and fourth. What's the odds of the stator going bad in a new distributor
What about the TFI module thing that's bolted to the radiator support area? I might have one in my parts bin. I could send it to you really cheap to try.
Looks like a little finned box.
I put a new tfi on it what's the chances of it being bad brand new?
I thought for sure when you said it tried to start when turning it off that you were getting power to things in run but not start. Have you check to make sure you have 12 volts to everything that needs it while the ignition is in the start position?
Ya it seems like everything has power now we just can't get any spark at the plugs which is wierd because now it just don't start when I first got it you could let it sit and it would start for a little bit
OK so I took a multimeter to the coil I'm getting 12 volts key on 9 volts starting? Is that backwarda?
Nope fine, battery voltage falls when cranking...
Have you verified ACTUAL spark at coil??
All you need to test is a grounded spark plug in end of coil wire... Open gap to around .150", good spark will be very visible...
If injectors are clicking, the PIP in dist should be fine...
OK so no spark from the ignition coil while cranking. it sparked once. As soon as we quit turning the key
I got spark not sure what I did but I hooked up a different coil and just sat it by the other one still mounted and it fell over I started getting spark but now I'm not. So I guess I may have a short some where?
http://easyautodiagnostics.com/ford/4.9L-5.0L-5.8L/ignition-module-tests-5 I followed all the tests here I guess the new icm is bad too?
I checked voltage to coil again and was only getting 6 then would drop down to 4 while cranking?
Sounds like you need to get the battery charged up. There is going to be some voltage drop while cranking it over.
Maybe try hooking the coil directly to the battery with a jumper wire. If it happens to start the only way to shut it down is to disconnect the jumper wire.
Check the wiring and connections over. Check for continuity on each side of the connectors, wiggle the wires while doing so. If you are testing with things unplugged and it tests good on that end it doesn't mean it is getting out of the other side of the connector when it is plugged back in.
Well she runs! Only problem is I unhooked that timing jumper which ik is supposed to be in but what does that mean? Also I grabbed it while running so I became the jumper I advise never doing that lol
The timing jumper plug basically removes the computer from modifying ignition related stuff. Essentially running in limp mode.
Now that you got it so it can run, put that jumper back in, clear codes or disconnect the computer over night, and try to start it again. If it won't start, pull codes and see what really going on. There are only a handful of sensors that will prevent the car from starting with the jumper in vs jumper out.
Hopefully we can get ya going.
It would try to start when I put it back in. The code I'm getting is either 4 or 41
Could it be the eec or some kind of ignition relay Ik a guy that swears that's what he did to fix his. The eec was getting really hot
You mentioned someone had put a new distributor in it. Have you had a timing light on it?
No I haven't he said a shop did it but that still don't mean anything
New relay didn't help. So is the computer the only thing left?
If it runs without the spout pull it, start it, check the base timing just to make sure it is set right.
Oh ya ok in gonna try timing tomorrow
The computer will tell you why it isn't running...
Record the codes you are getting and throw it up here or on YouTube or something.
https://youtu.be/9QSiS6wf7oU
Can I do a koer test if the spout is out? I checked it with the koeo and got 11 then 41
The codes I got are 41 18 or 81 or maybe both
I think it was 18 since that one says to advance timing
41 is always lean passenger, usually an o2 sensor , 18 is spout not connected.
Now try to start the car with the spout plugged in. With it unplugged, you essentially disable the computer.
It won't start with the spout in
Agreed, AFAIK the ECM retards timing while cranking, if initial timing is retarded that could be your start issue...
You need to get a light on it to find out where timing is set and stop just guessing...
Timing is set to 10 degrees still no start with the spout in. it does try
How well does it start with the spout out? When it tries to start with the spout in what is it doing? Does it sound like it is popping thru the intake or exhaust or any kick back on the starter?
Not sure what direction to send you, but wouldn't hurt to confirm that when cylinder 1 is at TDC the balancer reads the same and that the valves are closed.
The car starts and runs great with the spout out. I drove it to work. There are a bunch of popping noises when the car is cooling off other than that idk everything's seems ok. I was only getting 2 volts at the spout if that means anything
The spout is a jumper, nothing else.
If the computer runs great with the spout out, it will run 10 times better when you fix it. You are in limp mode. At best you get bad gas mileage and it doesn't run right, at worse you burn up the cat conv and have to spend a bunch of money.
The spout essentially removes the ignition advancement features of the computer and forces limp mode. If it runs at all you are probably really close to fixing it. What codes pop up after you try cranking with the spout in?
Actually no sprout just means no timing advance, not limp mode... In limp mode timing is fixed, not advancing, along with a fixed injector pulse... Are rich at idle often to point of belching black smoke, lean under acceleration, run like ...
Why this one runs OK without sprout is a mystery to me, BUT if it has only 10* advance it can't be that great...
Verifying timing marks is a good suggestion...
When I try with the spout in cranking the only code I get is 41. How many volts should the spout have
Could it be a short circuit I had got code 18 before I unplugged the battery the other day
code 18 (R)=key on engine running Check base timing & advance function
(M)=memory Ignition TACH signal erratic
code 41 (R) System lean
(M) System was lean for 15 seconds or more (no HO2S switching)
Not sure what voltage the spout wire should have, but it is just a signal wire that will be lower voltage. Most signal wires have 0 to 5 volts.
The reason for checking that piston 1 is at TDC when the timing mark is at zero is to make sure your harmonic balancer has not slipped. If it has it is possible that you are not at the 10 degrees base timing that you believe you are at. It's a long shot, but it is easy to check and only costs your time.
Oh ok how do you check that?
OK so I followed the spout wire to the inside of the car and found a connector unplugged? I used a voltmeter to make sure it was the same wire. Is that supposed to be plugged in?
In the EVTM, I don't see any connectors between the SPOUT "shorting plug" (jumper) and the connector to the EEC. Is the wire yellow with a green stripe at both ends?
I think you may be fooling yourself with your meter.
You say the car runs ok with the spout jumper unplugged.
You say the car has no spark from the coil with the spout jumper plugged.
That tells me the EEC is bad.
Ya it was yellow with a green stripe. I hooked one probe to the spout connector and one to the plug and the sound when off. The one plug was male and had two female plugs you could plug into it.
Well unplugged the battery and plugged that plug I found back up now she runs again. Thanks for the help everybody
Run codes and see if it's actually fixed. Nothing worse then an unreliable car.
Only code it gives me is 41