I got all the wires lengthened and match. Everything seems to work except for the alternator gauge and the tach the alternator signal wire seems different on the base that the turbo cluster . I'm stuck I don't care if the tach rpms are not accurate as long as it works any help would be great
OK I need a lil help guys now the car is draining batteries fast 5 minutes tops and it's flat dead.
If you remove the basic cluster with the "alternator warning light", the alternator will not "turn on". You have to jumper the LG/R and GY/Y wires at the cluster harness connector C285 pins 10 & 11. This will bypass the missing warning light.
Check for charging voltage at the battery terminals to confirm.
Are you following some instructions for this swap? If so, post the link so I can read it.
Also, what car is the turbo cluster from?
If a good battery drains in 5 min something should be getting very(and I mean VERY) hot... To pull a fully charged battery down that quickly would require a couple hundred amp draw, any wiring other than battery cables would be smoking...
True, but I don't know how long he has been running it without the alternator working.
Rereading his post, he did say batteries, implying he is trying different batteries,
I guess I need more detailed feedback from him before I can get my head into this.
Thanks for the help guys I have just been going off of the wiring diagrams on cool cats and trial and error with a test light I think I saw a little smoke coming from the back of the alternator side of the cluster so I unplugged it and the battery. as far as I know the cluster is a 85,86 turbo stick car I bought it off of ebay mine is a base 5.0 car all the other guages work except for tax the alternator gauge and haven't tested the speedo I did lupe both gray and yellow wires with the green and red alt wire the battery died I'm waiting on a charger.
You can check out my ride here. https://m.facebook.com/Foxbody-Thunderbirds-195472014123311/?ref=bookmarks
I have 2 gray/yellow stripe. /green with red stripe and white with blue stripe and a green with light green connected with yellow green and a spare ground.
I have 2 gray/yellow stripe. /green with red stripe and white with blue stripe and a green with light green connected with yellow green and a spare ground. Left to figure out still same no tach,amp smoke was loose wire touching
Its gonna be the amp guage.
All the power will go through that guage. The green red striped wire is the 12v feed for the alt. It is the "on" switch for the alt. Without a 12v charge on that wire, you will not charge the alt at all.
I need to get a desktop to read multiple diagrams at the same time. I can't do it all on my phone/tablet.
The factory amp gage operates on milliamps(.001 A), a shunt wire(that's AFAIK is not in anything other than Turbo Coupe and '88 Sport) carries 99.999% of the load... If load is connected directly, it will burn out immediately...
Somebody is going to take me by the hand and guide me through coolcats.net. I can't find any wiring diagrams there.
1985-88 Standard-to-buttstuffog Cluster Conversion Guide (http://"http://www.coolcats.net/media/docs/base_to_tc_cluster.pdf")
Very interesting.
The base to turbo cluster conversion write-up replaces the alternator warning light with the ammeter.
The alternator voltage regulator is "turned on" through the ammeter.
The way this should work (if it works at all) is with the key on the meter should deflect (warning light on) when the engine and alternator are running, the meter goes back to center (warning light off).
Or maybe it will just turn on the alternator without any deflection. Would like to know.
Assuming the magnet is any good, it should slam the gage to max when ign is turned on... A std 194 lamp pulls .24A and I know the alt trigger circuit(regulator) can handle a amp or more(whether it's happy at that much current is debatable)...
There should be a parallel 500 ohm resistor in harness that excites the alt in lieu of a failed bulb...
This was in the basic cluster with the bulb.
You're correct, I'm used to seeing the resistor in the harness in the older stuff... Most I've ever done with a electronic cluster is repl bulbs in a std and toss a full digi in the trash...
Basic harness (turbo shows one)
The one from basic 11A goes to turbo 6 Yellow/ Light Green.
The one from basic 12A goes to turbo 7 Black (shield not ground) and Grey/Yellow wires. THIS IS THE IVR POWER WIRE.
The basic harness 10A, Light Green/Red goes to turbo harness 5, Red (EVTM shows Red/Orange).
The Basic 16A, White/Light Blue wire(s) goes to turbo 14, White/Light Blue wires.
The basic 13B, Green/Light Green goes to turbo 11, Green/Light Green.
The turbo 6, Yellow/Light green goes to basic 11A Gray/Yellow as listed in the first paragraph.
The basic 14B Black (ground) goes to turbo 12, Black (ground).
IVR POWER WIRE:
The turbo harness 7 Black wire that is paired with Gray/Yellow wire is a shield and not a ground. This is the IVR power wire. Don't know if the basic harness wire is shielded or not. The '86 EVTM doesn't show it. If this shield wire is what you are calling an extra ground, DON"T GROUND IT !!
I have not been into this and don't know if the shield is just the black wire wrapped around the Gray/Yellow wire, or if it is a braided shield.
If the basic harness also has it, you should hook the shield wires/braids together.
I am guessing you working with the cut off stub of the turbo harness and splicing those wires to the basic harness wires.
The write up lists the turbo harness wire colors. Most of the colors match but not all.
The EVTM wiring colors are not necessarily what's in the cars; a lot of them are just not correct. I created the guide based off the colors of wires that are actually in the car.
Regardless, it's the wiring position that matters more than the wiring color itself, when it comes to swapping the wires out.
Yes, I can see where using the wire connector positions is the way to use the chart.
Is there enough current draw through the ammeter to cause it to move with this setup?
I'm watching this. I'll look at something I have and try an see if I can help. I f i can find the info.
Take a look at this cluster build
http://jr.rustecat.com/articles/cluster/index.php
Here's what the ammeter for a '88 cluster reads with load of 906 bulb at 14v.. Yeah it's a bit hard to read but left meter at mid scale would be 1A, so it's approx .75A, bulb is rated .69A at 13.5v...
As I've already stated the regulator light circuit can suppl a amp or more but without any current limiting, the gauge can far exceed that... Will be similar to totally shorting out the bulb... Without the bulb, my power supply instantly tripped the 2A overload at approc ¼ volt...
Admittedly it takes a bit more current than I originally suspected for full deflection but that only means it's more likely to overload the regulator in alternator... With a limit resistor or bulb in series it will work to show discharge but never show charge... When charging the circuit is turned off so no current flows...
So how do I know this? I rewired my Comet so I can use a internal regulator alternator and still operate the charge light... Originally the mechanical regulator required a 15 ohm parallel resistor to excite circuit, basically I cut it loose and installed a 470 ohm in series with 15(or in other words it now has 485 ohms in parallel with bulb)...
(http:// http://s10.postimg.org/88tcffw7t/turbocoupeampmeter.jpg)
Interesting stuff. Can you measure the resistance of the ammeter?
In the EVTM the only load between the alternator and the battery is the battery (when charging). They put it in parallel with a length of wire. So, if I remember correctly, the ratio of the wire resistance to the meter resistance determines what percent of the current takes each path through the circuit.
Yeah I did measure it, .1 ohm & here's a pict I shot showing approx size & amount of wire...
(http://s10.postimg.org/f8nm7iehl/007.jpg)
I've checked and double checked all the wires I've even tried to put the green and red wire to the yellow gray and yellow nothing works the alternator won't turn on I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong I test the alternator on a partsshop it works fine I will recheck everything in the morning and let you guys know thanks for everything
The ammeter could be shot in the cluster. If no voltage goes through it you won't have the needed 12 volts to turn the alt on, if I am understanding the diagrams correctly.
One thing here, he has a '86 5.0 so it uses a 2G internal regulator alt... The '86 TC still used a 1G external regulator alt, so previously posted wiring diagram is largely irrelevant...
I'll have to recheck but I believe my gage has a E5 part number, so I'll assume they are same for '85-'88...
Now, what no one seems to grasp is the light is grounded by the alt regulator, that is a .24A load for a #194... If the bulb is jumped out(or a .1 ohm gage connected in place), there will be a major current surge into reg... I'm thinking at least it goes into a shutdown mode, worst case is poof...
I dunno maybe my rant is irrelevant, but is exactly why I installed the 470 ohm resistor in my Comet to operate the 2G alt...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3QJ8FA5pRYc/UF9srpIOE4I/AAAAAAAALAk/EwtyBYbA1cE/s800-Ic42/020a.jpg)
I posted the diagram to show how the ammeter is wired in the turbo. What you have is a meter with an internal shunt that makes it 1.5 amp meter. It is center justified so it has a .75 amp swing in either direction. In the car the wire in the harness is an extra external shunt, raising the amp capacity much higher.
The 87 is the only turbo with the 2g alternator. The EVTM shows the keyed power going directly to the I (indicator switch) terminal of the regulator. So I think the reg is safe without any extra load in the circuit.
For the ammeter with 0.1 ohms, with no other load, the current will be 10 times the applied voltage. At 12v it will be 120 amps.
With the amp and voltage info you provided I was able to calculate the resistance of the bulb in your bench test.
Many years ago I measured the voltages at the voltage regulator. With KOEO and the warning light on, the I terminal was 4.49 volts.
With this and assuming(oh no) the bulb in the car to be the same resistance as your bench test, I calculated the regulator resistance to be 11.08916 ohms.
With 12v applied to an 11.08916 ohm load the current draw is 1.08214 amps.
With the ammeter added to the load it will be 1.07247 amps.
So the ammeter should peg-over hard but I don't know if it is enough to damage it.
Well actually I cheated a little and used this OHM'S law calculator: http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms-law-calculator
Thanks for all the help again guys so here's an update everything in the car seems to be working perfectly even the tag is its running high but it works I'm confused on the alternator pins I keep getting different colors and different directions I got the gauge the pig hi once but the car didn't stay running I'm running out of options guys thanks for all your help.
Thanks for all the help again guys so here's an update everything in the car seems to be working perfectly even the tach is its running high but it works I'm confused on the alternator pins I keep getting different colors and different directions I got the gauge the pig hi once but the car didn't stay running I'm running out of options guys thanks for all your help.
Can someone please hold my hand and tell me exactly where the alternator wires need to go on the plug in the back of the instrument cluster or how to jump it and make the alternator go
Does the cluster connector still have the turbo harness wires on it?
What I am trying to understand is; did the turbo cluster come with a plug attached or are you using one of the basic cluster plugs?
Forget about jumpering anything. I did not know what instructions you were using when I posted that.
Does this help?
With the key on and the engine off, the gauge should peg.
When the engine starts, the gauge should go back to the center.
The tach should read double what the RPM actually is. Because the tach is for a 4 cylinder engine.
I'm using the base plugs and moving wires where they're supposed to go on the turbo cluster so connect both gray\yellow wires then plug them into #6 on plug
Normal bulb in alt circuit is a #194, 14.4v@.24A... At 14v those will not deflect gage quite half scale(that was first try), I used the 906 to achieve full deflection at 14v... One last comment and I'll leave you guys to figure out the problem, definitely a issue that too many cooks are going to spoil the broth...
The '87 TC 2G does not use the stator(S) circuit loop that's connected with a charge indicator bulb, whether it makes a difference I dunno... I was determined to error on side of caution when I converted my Comet, and it works as intended...
(http://s11.postimg.org/46kbqrggj/87tcalt.png)
Thanks for all the help I'm not an electrician so I don't know much about that stuff. I'm tryn but it doesn't make sense to me . I need help on what to buy or hook up thanks.
The gray/yellow wire that was in the base plug position 11A goes to #6.
The gray/yellow wire that was in base plug position 12A goes to #7
I will try it today that will leave me with A light blue and pink striped wire and a ground wire Indy light green and yellow striped in yellow and light green striped wire double left over
I think we have a failure to communicate. I thought from your responses that the turbo cluster came with no plug or turbo cable harness wires.
Twice in this thread you have mentioned a yellow/Light green wire. I can only find this wire in the turbo cluster harness.
So help me out here.
In the two basic cluster plugs you could have as many as 9 unused wires. I don't know if any of them are feature related, and don't feel like running them all down.
A light blue/pink in the basic plug B16 is unused.
A light green/yellow in the basic plug B17 is unused.
Ground wire Indy? Don't know what that means. Why do you think it's a ground wire?
Yellow/Light Green. Where is this wire?? Double?? does this mean two of them.
I tried it , car dies as soon as the battery is disconnected. Thank you to everyone trying to help, my number is 360_807_3955 if anyone wants to call me, the local automotive electrician wants 325 dollars to come over and do it.
Stop pulling the battery cable with it running, you'll soon need a computer as well...
Get yourself a meter and incandescent test light(std bulb no LED )... Test for voltage at
Stop pulling the battery cable with it running or you'll soon need a computer as well...
Get yourself a meter and incandescent test light(std bulb, no LED )... Ign switch off, test for voltage on alternator at black/orange and yellow/white wires(you can use test light)... If no power there is a blown fuse link... If there is power, then the excite circuit from orig alt light isn't functioning(of course this is what's been altered)... This can be verified by checking for voltage on the red/green wire on regulator with ign sw on & engine off(again use test light)...
When it's running use meter to read voltage at battery, anything over 12.6v indicates it's charging and it should be 13.5 to 14.4V...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3QJ8FA5pRYc/UF9srpIOE4I/AAAAAAAALAk/EwtyBYbA1cE/s800-Ic42/020a.jpg)
Hey guys so thanks again so I decided to wire the alt reg my self ran a fuse block and s to the battery and I to ignition guages reads in POS and we are changing.