Hey guys back at it again! Car starts up good but at a idle the motor shakes alot like somethings not right? It also has a slight miss sounds like the exhaust under the car though ... If I rev the car it revs strong no Popping or missing in the Rev? I haven't put new plug or new wires or cap and rotor, due to it not really being my car...Its my dads!! I did however wire brush all plugs and cap and rotor though! I Thinking maybe the timing might be a little off any advice? This is a cfi bird and I know there temperamental.. please help
Is the idle too slow?
The 5.0L CFI for cold fast idle, uses a carburetor type fast idle cam. Before cranking you must goose the gas pedal to allow the cam to move to the fast step.
After warmup the idle is controlled by a vacuum operated "throttle kicker". The EEC controls the vacuum with the throttle kicker solenoid.
Always a good idea to pull codes.
No the idle is not too low, and the choke does stick for some reason gotta press it to get it too idle down? And shouldn't the check engine light be on if there's codes?
There is no choke but it uses the same type mechanism to control the cold idle. The cam has 3 steps. A "vacuum pull down" should move it off the highest step.
The electric choke heater should move it off the other 2 steps.
Your car has no check engine light. That came in later years.
Ok so how do I go about pulling codes out of this car?
??
I've only owned 86-87 cars, but I think 84 still uses the same procedure.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,2471.0.html
Basically you only need a paperclip and test light or buttstuffong volt meter.
Correct, its helpful to have someone jot down the number of blinks, while the you don't take your eyes off the lights as they flash. Its primitive blinking lights to give the code numbers.
I usually just record it as a video on my cell phone. Then ya can take it inside and review it as many times as possible instead of bending over the side of a car in the cold.
I'm a little confused? Where do I put the paper clip in at top right?
Then in to the single clip.. Hooked up to a test light.. ?.. I looked at the link and it seem like they said top right and the bottom left.. And u guys help me understand this a little more clearly.. Thanks
Here you go.
Alright here it goes I did both test, with the car off and with the car running.. And to be honest I believe I found what the codes ment online. .On troblecodes.net.. But really don't know what they mean if that makes any sense!! I figure I'd ask the pro's on here to help out on how I go about fixing these.. So here's what I got...
Key on car off/
- 8/4 guessing that's 84.. EGR position/pressure feedback control circuit failure??
-1/1 guess that's a 11..?System pass???
-4/1 No H02 S Switching Detected?? I have no cue about this one?
-8/2 Secondary Air Bypass Circuit Failure? Again no clue on this one?
-2/1 ETS out of self test range..And this might be because the wires were really bad on it fixed them up so I'm guessing it's ok now..
Now for Key on engine Running!
-41 system indicates lean..? My dad just noticed some white smoke out of the exhaust?? How do I go about looking in too this??
-34 EGR pos,pressure feed back voltage above closed limit??
-32 EGR pos,pressure feedback voltage below closed voltage!?
-77 Operator Error Dynamic Self Test?? No clue once again lol..
And last note I got a few of these codes a few time's I know some are stored codes.. so just thought I'd put that out there.. Really trying to get this car right so and feed back is very much appreciated.. Thanks again guy's.. Looking forward too hearing back from ya..
i had the same codes and my bird was acting the same as yours and i unplugged the egr and it runs like a champ didnt delete the egr only unplugged it
Operator error, some models make ya do stuff like turn the wheel or blip the throttle. Ignore that code all together.
System lean is an o2 code. Pre 87 o2 sensors are not heated. The o2's don't work until they get up to a certain temp, and most times they don't work at all at idle, unless you drive the car some first.
If the egr is stuck open, the car can run funny. Check vacuum lines to and from and then try unplugging it. If that doesn't change anything, it might be gummed up. If you unbolt it, you should be able to move it by hand.
Secondary air bypass is smog pump. This shouldn't effect the way the car runs. Again, check vacuum lines.
Basically all the sensors are electric for reference, but vacuum activatesthem.
Etc (engine coolant temp? This means coolant was cold, usually around 50f.) Usually means the car wasn't warm enough when you ran codes. These do occasionally fail, they are cheap any easy to replace.
Hope this helps.
Thanks Haystack!
So none of theses will make my idle rough,and engine shake at idle?
No switching detected on o2's means one side is always lean, o2 might be bad.
You can try unplugging it to see if the code goes away, or switch o2's from one side to the other. O2's cost about $45 at least for my car and can be a bear to get out.
Don't drive with o2's unplugged. Its bad for your cats. A quick idle test to see if it stops shaking should tell ya.
Best of luck, look around on that sbftech link. They have code definitions specific to fords. Some information is 87-93 mustang only, but is likely the closest you'll get. They have wrote steps for troubleshooting and testing most common codes and hints for other things to check.
Thank you for pulling codes. I hate troubleshooting with nothing to go on. Lots of guys here throw money away till they run out and give up. Props to you sir.
The car also has a slight miss a idle sound like a exhaust leak almost maybe underneath the car but I got it up on jack stands and can't see any spots that have build up of a leak?So kinds confused about that..And when I rev it it doesn't miss,at all???
My money is on o2's or the egr being stuck open, either can cause a rough idle. Egr you should be able to unbolt and move by hand. Its a small plug with a spring in it. When vacuum is applied it pulls back the spring. If the egr gets crusty or carbon build up, sometimes it gets stuck.
Once a egr code is displayed, the computer ignores is pretends its not there.if its stuck open it can effect idle.
Thanks man, I'm only 26,and this was my girlfriends uncle's car..And he passed a year ago on thanksgiving .. We were good friends.. So the car means alot too me.. Even though it's my dad's! It's pretty much mine too.. Were running all new break lines and that's super funn... Not! I'll keep you posted, my works far from done..
Check the smog pump air tube, where it goes from the cats up to the head. Exhaust is pumped out of the head with the smog pump and shoots oxygen down to the cat to warm it up like a bellows or blowing on coals.
That small metal pipe has been rusted through on all my cars and makes exhaust leak. You can replace it with high temp rubber hose.
Thanks man, that kinda what I'm leaning towards, as soon as I get a chance I'm gunna pull it out and push on it, and hold my finger on it to check for vacuum...
Im only 28. Been driving these cars since i was 16. Occasionally little bit of smarts rubs off over time and ya pick stuff up here and there. Good luck, and let us know what you find.
I'll have too look in to that some it's super tight and not much room too see over there in that area.. But I got a feeling you're right, because it smells like a exhaust leek to high heaven, I gotta have a big fan under it blown all that out of the garage when it's running. . So I know it's leek in some where. .lol
Will do ,and I've always had mustangs with the 5.0.. so yea that helps some..Thanks again
KOEO codes: On demand (O) and Continuous memory (M)
O's are the first codes presented. Then a single pulse separator between O and M codes. I am guessing the 11 you listed was the single pulse.
O- 82 code ( since this is not a valid M code I am calling it an O code) TAB or TAD solenoid resistance out of specs. pull connector and check each solenoid for 50-100 ohms.
O- 84 code EGRC or EGRV solenoid resistance out of specs. Pull connector and check each solenoid for 30-70 ohms.
Memory codes are stored while driving the car. You can clear them by disconnecting paper clip jumper while KOEO codes are reading out.
M- 41 code EGO sensing lean.
M- 21 code ECT low. If the ECT sensor were bad, the KOER would show this code. About the only way to get this code with a good ECT sensor is the thermostat sticking open in cold weather.
KOER codes:
R-41 code EGO sensing lean. Warm up the engine. Pull apart the connector to the EGO sensor (your car only has one sensor. right side rear of manifold.) Put meter on output of the sensor. With the engine running approximately 2000 RPM you should have more than 0.5 volts between the sensor output and ground.
They typically run between 0.5 and 0.8 volts. It may be easier to back probe EEC pin 29 Dark green/ pink hash wire.
If the EGO sensor is good you may have a vacuum leak.
R- codes 32 & 34 see KOEO codes 82 & 84.
R- code 77 when running KOER, after the 4 pulse engine code and before the error codes start, you should get a single "dynamic response" pulse. This is when you should goose the gas pedal momentarily to WOT.
Pic.
Thanks slow touch I worked 12 hours today, so I wasn't able to work on the car hopefully I can get out there tomorrow, but I'm not sure I know where too look for the egr control solenoids..? What area under the hood is this located?And also Thermador air solenoids??Sorry I really don't recall.. Thanks again for you're time!!
Softtouch! Like I said I had a really long day yesterday!I was half asleep when I wrote back..
I don't know where those solenoids are located on the 5.0L. On the 3.8L they are under the antifreeze expansion tank.
I think yours will be on the shock towers or the firewall. The bad solenoids don't have anything to do with your idling problem.
A bad EGO may make you run too rich as the EEC reacts to the lean EGO .
If I can find a picture I will post it.
X2
Ignore the codes and solinoids right now.
Take apart your egr and see if it's stuck open, if it's not, it shouldn't be causing your idling issue.
Then you need to test your o2's by unplugging them. If unplugging them doesn't change anything, they are likely not the cause of your idle issues.
Vacuum leaks will artificially raise the idle which can cause the computer to freak out because it can't control the idle and it will do funky things like change timing and cut/add fuel trying to bring down or steady the idle. I'd check the egr/o2's, then go after vacuum lines.
Personally I've seen no difference in gas mileage or emissions with a functioning egr, so even if it is stuck open, try to clean it till it will close and make sure it seals. If it does, you don't need to worry about it unless you have emissions testing. The o2's are critical to your a/f ratio and factors how much air the computer thinks it is getting.
Your on the right track, just buckle down and check egr and o2's first. 41/42 codes should be drivers or passenger side, which should help you eliminate the problem. O2's really suck to change out. All kinds of in the way.
The white/black wire on the electric choke heater should have 7 to 8 volts on it when the alternator is running.
If the alternator has been upgraded from the original 1G they may not have connected this wire to the stator (S) terminal of the alternator.
This would leave it stuck on high idle.
Stack. His car only has 0ne O2.
I see. Sorry, I am lacking in the cfi and pre sefi cars.
Every cfi car I had was a 87 v-6 and they all are the tranny before I got any real miles on them.