Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Racing => At The Track => Topic started by: Lightningbird on October 06, 2015, 12:19:13 AM

Title: Torque Converter Thoughts Welcome
Post by: Lightningbird on October 06, 2015, 12:19:13 AM
I just replaced my torque converter (Precision Industries Stallion) 3700 with a Pro Torque equivalent but went from a 9.5" converter to a 8". I was having a tough time dealing with the 23% converter slippage in the 1/4 mile. It was killing my et and MPH. I am trying to get my bird into NHRA Super Gas territory of a 9.90. The best I have ran so far is a 10.08. Now I am running 6.20 1/8 mile and that should equate to a 9.80 1/4 mile. In high gear the poor PI Stallion was just not efficient enough, the problem is that upon install and optest of the new converter, I noticed quite a bit more slippage and I cannot determine if the converter is just slipping that much, or do I not have something right in the tranny? Nothing has really changed with the exception of the converter so I am a bit puzzled. These were both high end converters and I am doubting that 2 different converter shops can be so far off of their initial settings. Am I out to lunch, or should I be checking line pressure to the cooler to verify converter charge pressure? Can the pressure be adjusted? It's a full race C4 Reverse Manual Valve body, no transbrake.
Title: Torque Converter Thoughts Welcome
Post by: thunderjet302 on October 06, 2015, 03:59:11 PM
How do you know it was slipping that much?
Title: Torque Converter Thoughts Welcome
Post by: Pressure cooked chicken on October 07, 2015, 10:20:11 PM
For reference I went 6.43 and 10.02 so a 6.20 should easily be in the 9.80s I would think.

I know our cars are apples to oranges but I have been happy with my Coan 8" 5500 converter.
Title: Torque Converter Thoughts Welcome
Post by: Masejoer on October 10, 2015, 03:25:03 AM
Quote from: Lightningbird;451592
I just replaced my torque converter (Precision Industries Stallion) 3700 with a Pro Torque equivalent but went from a 9.5" converter to a 8". I was having a tough time dealing with the 23% converter slippage in the 1/4 mile. It was killing my et and MPH. I am trying to get my bird into NHRA Super Gas territory of a 9.90. The best I have ran so far is a 10.08. Now I am running 6.20 1/8 mile and that should equate to a 9.80 1/4 mile. In high gear the poor PI Stallion was just not efficient enough, the problem is that upon install and optest of the new converter, I noticed quite a bit more slippage and I cannot determine if the converter is just slipping that much, or do I not have something right in the tranny? Nothing has really changed with the exception of the converter so I am a bit puzzled. These were both high end converters and I am doubting that 2 different converter shops can be so far off of their initial settings. Am I out to lunch, or should I be checking line pressure to the cooler to verify converter charge pressure? Can the pressure be adjusted? It's a full race C4 Reverse Manual Valve body, no transbrake.


This sounds similar to my issues. I gave up troubleshooting. Stock converter slipped quite a bit (seen after reviewing datalogs years later), but the smaller Stallion 9.5" 3000 stall unit made my transmission issues more apparent. 36% slippage at 4000rpms. Transmission stall pressures were perfect. I've had other issues with lockup in the 4r70w transmission though, so I assume that I simply have a problem in the transmission and not in the converters (both would fail to hold lockup at closed-throttle and factory tune - pressure boost at closed throttle made that issue go away). According to places like Silver Fox Transmission, the problem shouldn't be anywhere in the valvebody, and with good epc/line/etc pressures and high slippage issues with both stock and aftermarket converters, they weren't sure where I should look next. There comes a point that one must stop throwing time and money into old parts! ;)

From what I understand about how these converters should behave, I'd assume the problem is somewhere else. Insufficient converter charge for whatever reason would cause higher slippage.
Title: Torque Converter Thoughts Welcome
Post by: Lightningbird on October 20, 2015, 01:20:21 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;451613
How do you know it was slipping that much?

I did the math between MPH and engine RPM at the traps. Your driveshaft RPM should equate to engine RPM since it is a 1:1 ratio, so any difference between the two and viola it has to be the converter or transmission slippage.
Title: Torque Converter Thoughts Welcome
Post by: Lightningbird on October 20, 2015, 02:03:31 PM
Quote from: Pressure cooked chicken;451660
For reference I went 6.43 and 10.02 so a 6.20 should easily be in the 9.80s I would think.

I know our cars are apples to oranges but I have been happy with my Coan 8" 5500 converter.

I have been doing some research and learning on fluid coupling and fluid dynamics. I determined that my converter is too small in diameter for efficient fluid coupling at my current engine RPM limitations (6600 RPM and less) and that I really need a 10-10.5" converter. I have a 9.5" 3700 RPM that I had it restalled as a 3200 to see if there will be any change in higher RPM slippage.
Title: Torque Converter Thoughts Welcome
Post by: Lightningbird on October 20, 2015, 02:04:54 PM
Quote from: Seek;451703
This sounds similar to my issues. I gave up troubleshooting. Stock converter slipped quite a bit (seen after reviewing datalogs years later), but the smaller Stallion 9.5" 3000 stall unit made my transmission issues more apparent. 36% slippage at 4000rpms. Transmission stall pressures were perfect. I've had other issues with lockup in the 4r70w transmission though, so I assume that I simply have a problem in the transmission and not in the converters (both would fail to hold lockup at closed-throttle and factory tune - pressure boost at closed throttle made that issue go away). According to places like Silver Fox Transmission, the problem shouldn't be anywhere in the valvebody, and with good epc/line/etc pressures and high slippage issues with both stock and aftermarket converters, they weren't sure where I should look next. There comes a point that one must stop throwing time and money into old parts! ;)

From what I understand about how these converters should behave, I'd assume the problem is somewhere else. Insufficient converter charge for whatever reason would cause higher slippage.

I do not have a lock up converter but our issues sound similar. I'm doing some work with restall and converter diameter and will let you know how it pans out.
Title: Torque Converter Thoughts Welcome
Post by: thunderjet302 on October 20, 2015, 02:20:40 PM
Quote from: Lightningbird;451827
I did the math between MPH and engine RPM at the traps. Your driveshaft RPM should equate to engine RPM since it is a 1:1 ratio, so any difference between the two and viola it has to be the converter or transmission slippage.

Well that makes sense :)
Title: Torque Converter Thoughts Welcome
Post by: Lightningbird on November 09, 2015, 07:14:24 PM
I finally got some track time! The re stalled converter worked out great. I am now going through the traps at 6900 rpm vice the 7500+ I washiznitting before. That equated to a 10.03 @131 mph. By finally tuning the fuel curve, I should be running high nines by the end of the year. That will be awesome!