Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: yeager561 on August 18, 2015, 11:05:58 AM

Title: ho cam swap
Post by: yeager561 on August 18, 2015, 11:05:58 AM
can you swap aho cam into the 88 so motor and convert to maf without swapping heads
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: vinnietbird on August 18, 2015, 11:15:06 AM
Yes, but you don't need Mass Air for an H.O cam. You DO need the correct computer and 19lb injectors, though. There's no reason to do Mass Air with an H.O cam swap. You'd be doing a lot of work and spending more than necessary. Just get a Speed zdensity ECM (I have always been told the DA=1 is best). I see them for $50. Sometimes a little less.
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: yeager561 on August 18, 2015, 11:32:14 AM
i plan on doing heads also i alrady have some minor mods on the car cobra intake exploder tb headers and flowmaster 40s i want the mass air so i feel like its esier to do cam and maf first so i dont have to do the computer twice
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: Beau on August 18, 2015, 12:13:48 PM
I'd stick with speed density unless you're going to an aftermarket cam or something better than Gt40 heads....you CAN swap to mass air, but at this point, it won't gain any power, and in fact, you'll lose a little "go" at idle.

What heads are you wanting?


Vinnie is right, too. with an HO cam, you'll need the 19's and an EEC to run the show. DA1 is about tops for a speed density motor, and if you do swap to mass air, then A9L if you're manual, or A9P for an AOD car.

I put my combo together using an '89 Mustang 5.0, I stabbed in an E cam, plopped GT40P heads with trick flow springs, Cobra intake, 65mm TB, and BBK headers. I could up the injectors to 24's with a matching mass meter and probably be very close to 300 horses, the engine is together, I'm just doing a little work to the car before I put it in.

I've put some new stuff in the engine too, oil pump, timing set, new mounts, water pump, etc.

Even for a budget build, I'm already into it for close to 1200 bucks. I should've just took the ed block in, had it tanked and bored, and started it off as a 306 and some new pistons. Next time...
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: yeager561 on August 18, 2015, 12:21:21 PM
yeah im very budget oriented id loike gt40 heads i thought the stock ho cam is big as i can go with my bottom end since i dont want to work it its only got  80k miles on it i thought the maf would wokr better with the ho cam and gt40's plus the other stuff ive done ? i have the injectors looking for eec now and can get an ho cam for 50 shipped uness i can find one from someone heremost of you guys know better than me
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: yeager561 on August 18, 2015, 12:22:25 PM
also is my motor a roller lifter so if i do swap cams can i reuse the lifters?
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: yeager561 on August 18, 2015, 12:22:55 PM
its an 88 tbird lx with so 5.0
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: Beau on August 18, 2015, 12:33:04 PM
Yes, it's a roller block. Inspect the lifters for wear, if there's no marks or scratches or the like, they're likely ok to reuse with the HO cam. I reused my lifters from the '89 block with my E cam.
And if you need an HO cam, I've got a couple...
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: yeager561 on August 18, 2015, 12:49:05 PM
how much shipped ?
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: Beau on August 18, 2015, 03:27:20 PM
45 to your door sir
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: QUICKSHIFT on August 18, 2015, 06:32:31 PM
Adding a set of 1.7 RR's to that cam will help as well.
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: yeager561 on August 18, 2015, 07:47:15 PM
so what would the longer roller rockers do as far as performance ? and if i put gt40 with an ho cam and 1.7 would they fit on an so ?
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: Beau on August 19, 2015, 12:32:02 AM
HO cam and 1.7 rockers *ought* to fit, but I'd err on the cautious side and putty the pistons first to be sure. Alternatively, a set of used stock bore HO pistons would give you what you'd need, or you could have your existing pistons flycut. A few guys ehre have done that themselves and had no issues.


Plus it opens the door for easier head/cam swaps later, should you want to upgrade. (you know you will LOL).
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: yeager561 on August 19, 2015, 07:20:22 AM
i dont want to do anything to the botome end
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: vinnietbird on August 19, 2015, 07:36:35 AM
If you are keeping the bottom end stock, H.O upgrade, stick with Speed Density, leave the MAF idea on the table. That'll give you good power, cost effective, and very easy.
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: yeager561 on August 19, 2015, 09:41:58 AM
vinnie what mods can i do on speed density if i put the ho cam with new sd eec will i notice any gains ? and can i do gt40 heads with sd
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: Beau on August 19, 2015, 10:13:55 AM
HO cam, 19's, and at least an HO or GT40 upper/lower intake, along with the GT40 heads and the 65mm TB will have you over what an '87-92 5.0 was rated at, which was 225 hp/300 pound/feet torque. Don't forget good headers and a true dual exhaust. For a little more snap, swap to a 3.55, 3.73, or 4.10 rear gear, and a good higher stall torque converter if you're sticking with AOD, and you'll have a much peppier car.

In fact, the above combo differs from only in the cam choice. If I couldn't have an E cam, I'd have remained with the HO. You'l still have more power than a stock HO engine, but with the stock SO pistons, and the GT40 heads, I'd be really careful about piston to valve contact. If you plan to run 1.7 rockers, you'll NEED to putty the pistons to be sure the valve aren't hitting the pistons. Might not hurt in any case...it's easy to do, just takes a little time and effort. If you're doing the head swap, it's cheap insurance anyway.


With the 65mm TB, you might need mass air. I had to swap to mass air because of my E cam, I've no solid idea if just a bigger TB will need mass air or not.


And in case you weren't aware, the Explorer/Mountaineer 5.0 intakes are just as good as the Cobra intakes, and in fact, some folks prefer them, some of the castings are thicker, meaning they can be ported more internally, and as well, there were some EGR differences, but I won't go into all that here, now.
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: yeager561 on August 19, 2015, 11:19:41 AM
ive already done t-5 swap and tubular headers h pipe and flow master 40s cobra intake and explorer tb ive converted to 5 lug and a mark vii rear with 3.27 and disk i dont know anything about running 1.7 rockers id rather just do cam and gt40 heads unless i can get away with the rockers but what is the performance gain from 1.7 rockers? will i see gains from just an h.o cam ? since i plan on doing the heads at a later date i have the 19# already and when i get up the money ill buy that cam from you so ill just need an eec i plan on doing waterpump and timing chain while im in there
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 19, 2015, 01:31:34 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;450721
With the 65mm TB, you might need mass air. I had to swap to mass air because of my E cam, I've no solid idea if just a bigger TB will need mass air or not.

Nah a 65mm TB will be fine with SD. I ran GT40P heads, GT40 intake, 65mm TB, and a Comp 266HR (35-308-8) cam with a Mark VII SD computer in my car for a couple of years without issue, Started, idled, and drove fine. I only switched to MAF when I went from stock 19lb injectors to 24lb injectors. Plus getting an A9P for free was a catalyst as well ;).

Out of all the parts I just listed the only two still in my Thunderbird are the A9P and the Comp 266HR cam......
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: Beau on August 19, 2015, 03:35:30 PM
yeager, the 1.7 rockers will "give" your cam more lift. Downside is you'll need aftermarket valve covers unless you've already got some that are big enough to clear 'em.

I had some tall Motorsport covers, ended up having to get an inch intake spacer to allow clearance for 'em. A day's pay less taxes...down the drain, but that's how it goes lol.


Anytime you need the cam, let me know and I'll get it out to you. One is from an '88 engine, and the other is from my '89 that I put together for my notch. Good stuff.



In fact, I think I might try to find a set of 24's and get a mass air meter to go with....might as well maximize my combo. Fuel isn't an issue, what with a 255 Walbro residing in the tank.
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: vinnietbird on August 19, 2015, 07:07:02 PM
Yes, you will notice a huge difference over the stock engine. One thing to also do is swap the factory 2.73 gears for something a little lower, like 3.55's or 3.73's. I personally like the 3.55's for a good all around gear. The gears alone will make a huge difference. Just like stated above, the heads, cam, intake, and t-bosy will be great. Headers and dual exhaust as well.
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: yeager561 on August 20, 2015, 12:59:55 AM
so im almost there then i just bought a mark vii rear with 3.27 so that will be a good change from the 2.73 and dont think ill do bigger rockers unless i decide i need new rockers and ill just build up the heads piece by piece till i have it all i actually started all of this after joining here and talking to you about doing a t-5 swap
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: yeager561 on August 20, 2015, 01:05:36 AM
so basically correct me if if wrong more lift means more airflow without having to get bigger heads? and vinnie where can i find the eec that i would need for h.o cam and will all mi need to do is swap cam plug in eec?
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: vinnietbird on August 20, 2015, 07:33:16 AM
I have seen the EEC's posted on Ebay, the Corral forum.....and post an add down in the classifieds here. AT the very least, I'd swap the heads to E-7's or GT-40's. E-7 heads aren't the greatest, but, they are better than the stock E-6 heads that you have now, and are probably good for 15 to 20 horsepower. Also, if you are running a stock exhaust, yank it all off the car, and replace it with headers and a good dual exhaust. The factory cast iron exhaust manifolds are very restrictive. After market shorty headers can be found pretty cheap on the Corral forum if you shop around, and even on Ebay. Ditch the smog equipment if you can as well. We don't have smog laws here where I live, so it's long gone.
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: yeager561 on August 20, 2015, 10:39:09 AM
yeah i have headers h pipe flowmaster 40s
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: Lodemia on August 20, 2015, 10:37:33 PM
I have a set of OEM headers, a set of aftermarket ones, and a speed density ECU out of a mark vii if you're interested.  I also believe I have a set of 1.6 roller rockers on some e6 heads.  Finally, I have a stock HO intake manifold , 19b injectors, and a 65MM throttle body that hasn't yet been converted.  Let me know if you are interested in any or all of this, I was keeping it around until I bought my TC.
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: yeager561 on August 21, 2015, 12:50:27 PM
i have most might be int in the eec
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: vinnietbird on August 21, 2015, 02:29:20 PM
The H.O swap is a one day job if you have everything next to you. If you swap the cam, go ahead and swap the water pump and timing chain as well.
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 21, 2015, 04:37:21 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;450761
If you swap the cam, go ahead and swap the water pump and timing chain as well.

I really hope people aren't reusing the factory timing chain.......
Title: ho cam swap
Post by: yeager561 on August 22, 2015, 07:45:06 AM
yeah going to do both