Last Friday, a BRAND NEW problem started......
I went out to start the car, and it tries to turn over, plenty of power, but no start. I thought it was the TFI. I swapped it, and the car started up. Saturday morning, no start. it tried but wouldn't start. I saw the fuel pressure gauge, no pressure. I thought the relay was probably going out. I took it to Autozone, and he said it was bad.
I ordered another relay, the one he got in for me tested bad. ordered another, waited two days, then went to get it, ......they didn't finish the order. SO, went to Napa yesterday and had them order one....they got it today. Wrong part. I ran to the local boneyard and grabbed one from the only '87/'88 Bird around for miles. The relay looks brand new (it was a low mile car), but looks aren't everything. I swapped it in a little while ago after work. car started right up. I let it run for about 15 minutes, then turned the car off. Tried to start it, and again, engine turning over, but no start. No fuel pressure at the gauge again.
I JUST let the car sit for about ten minutes, JUST ran out and tried to start it....it DID start. I turned it off, then no start again.
Fuel pump? Relay? what the ?
I, thinking it was a different issue at first, tried my spare distributor, spare ignition switch, swapped the pump hanger, new TFI module (Motorcraft), then a used relay (yeah, could be , hopefully the new one will be here tomorrow)....I can't help but think fuel pump relay or pump. If I can get a relay, and that doesn't fix it, I guess I can order a new pump.
Open to all thoughts on this.
The eec triggers the relay for the fuel pump. If your getting no fuel pump, next you need to see if your getting spark when its happening.
If i had to just guess at what it could be, id guess either eec relay could be ping out, or a bad ground to the eec.
Next time this happens, jump the fuel pump through the sti connector and see if it pumps fuel or not.
What do you mean by "jump the fuel pump through the STI connector"? Remember, I am NOT an electrical guy. Never have been, never will be.
When this problem happens, there is no fuel pressure, the fuel pressure gauge is zero.
could there possibly be a short in one of the TFI wires?
I'll go see what I can see.
Jump the fuel pump pin to ground, if pump runs the FP relay isn't your problem...
(http://oldfuelinjection.packrad.net/images/selftest04.gif)
Tom, does the key need to be on? Also, I guess s I need to see if the car starts. If so, then I'd have to wait til it dies to try this test. Doesn't that sound right?
Yes ign must be on... If pump were to run only when jumper is in place, that points to a control issue from ECM.. I'll need to double check but possibly a intermittent connection in the inertia switch would prevent pump from activating with jumper in place...
EDIT
Yeah if either ECM relay or inertia switch is intermittent, fuel pump won't activate even with jumper in place... If ECM relay is intermittent the check engine light won't be on as it also powers 'puter...
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zptMyEkO74U/UNR9ZzdHyGI/AAAAAAAAFlE/mNx2FA1kG04/w842-h697-no/s061.jpg)
Tom, in the spot you show in the picture where the fuel pump wire should be in the test plug, there is no wire. It is probably in another slot. What color is it?
I have no check engine light, either.
On another note,
It just started, I turned it back off, then no start. If I check the plug for power at the fuel pump hanger, could that point towards a fuel pump issue? On the voltmeter, where should I set it, and which wire is ground to the fuel pump plug? There's a pink wire and an orange wire.
I hate to ask stupid questions, but it is NO secret that electrical stuff kills me.
The F/P wire in test plug should be tan with a green stripe...
BUT assuming you normally have a check engine light with ign on, that needs to be checked out first... No CEL generally means the ECM isn't getting power, that usually means ECM relay which also powers fuel pump relay...
ECM relay is above right kick panel, at approx height of upper door hinge...
I have a check engine light until the engine starts. Sorry about that, I meant no check engine light while the motor is running. I may run and grab that relay for the ECM just in case as well. First, let me go see if the pump runs.....
I put a spade clip to the tan wire, long wire to the trunk, and grounded it. I can't hear the pump at all. Possibly a bad pump? Relay? ECM relay? I do have a check engine light with the key in the run position.
Not exactly sure how to check the voltage at the hanger plug. I did try it with the key off, and no numbers on the screen. I turned the key on....numbers kept climbing. Probably had it on the wrong setting. I hate electrical stuff.
Not sure if this is any good info....I put the key into the run position and put a test light to chassis ground, and then the probe into the pink wire of the hanger....no light. How do I test a relay?
OK, apparently from what I can tell, there will only be power to the plug for two seconds for priming, then when the car is actually running, so, gotta check that when somebody else is around. I can't reach the key and trunk at the same time.
Not sure where to go from here......Still seeking info and troubleshooting.
Ids there anything in the injector harness on the engine that could cause this? I swapped that a couple of weeks ago, then the issue started last week. I doubt that's it, but trying to cover all the bases.
OK Vinnie read this carefully, it will put you on the right track...
First you don't really need a meter, a test light should find the problem... And no need to run off and buy a ECM relay if the CEL is on with engine not running, won't fix you problem...
Look for the black/pink wires on the inertia sw, both should have power with ign on(if only one has power the inertia sw is bad)... If neither have power you have a wiring issue between it and the ECM relay(again assuming the CEL is on with engine off)... If that the case I'll have to make another post...
If inertia sw has power on both wires move to fuel pump relay, red wire should also have power and the Tan/Green wire will(should) light the light dimly and go out when that wire is grounded... The other two wires on relay should be yellow and pink/black(NOTE the shiznits at Ford are using pink/black for two different functions)... The yellow should always have power and the pink black powers the pump... Pink/black should have voltage when ign is on for approx two seconds, or constant power with tan/green grounded... Again note this pink/black is a different connection than ones on inertia switch...
If this checks out you have either a pump problem, issue with wiring to/from pump, or maybe the orange wire(pump ground) has a issue... I believe it's grounded under passenger seat, have been issues with corrosion at it's screw terminal...
G'luck, gotta run off for awhile but will check back soon...
Tom, it's fixed !!!
I was thinking.....until I hear back from you, I'll go ahead and replace the ECU relay. I dropped the door of the glovebox, nothing. I thought I'd have to remove the dash....nope. I removed the kick panel, and my relay was mounted down low. I couldn't get the relay apart from the plug.....finally I did. The relay and plug were corroded !!! SO, I made a mad dash to the bone yard, pulled the relay and plug, swapped the relay, grafted in the new plug. Good to go!!!
I would have never thought about that until you showed me the pic and it was mentioned that the EEC relay can cause that.
I appreciate the time you took to help me out. If you hadn't, I would still be scratching my head. LOL. THANK YOU!!!
I said eec relay in the second post...
Glad you got it fixed though.
Haystack, without you and Tom, as I said, I'd still be scratching my head. I was focusing on fuel related stuff, and never got into the eec stuff until this morning. Car is running fine except I ALMOST overheated it......forgot to plug in the electric fan. LOL. Crisis averted. The car is back in shape.
YOU GUYS are why I'd never leave this place or give up the old Bird. Great people, help when you need it, and I haven't seen many, if any, situations that we all haven't gotten figured out among the group of us. Thanks Haystack, Tom, Jerry......Pats on the backs for you guys. If I can ever help you, let me know. Except you Jerry, I will never help you in any way. LOL. LOL.
Glad to hear it's fixed...
Wiring can be daunting but if you look at it a small portion at a time, isn't hard to figure out what's going on...
Thanks again. I'll never forget you walking me through the H.O upgrade, then Kitz holding my hand through the Mass Air swap. Then I did the T-5 swap, 8.8 swap......man, what a journey it has been.
I never turned a wrench and was barely 16 when i joined this forum in the sleazy board days. I was like a kid in a candy store when i found the coolcats h.o. upgrade. Almost 15 years later and i still haven't done it.
I have done just about everything. Hmmmmm, I feel the need to post something about that in the lounge. LOL. I think I will. LOL.
Naaaaah, I got started.....way too much stuff to list. Changed my mind. LOL.