Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: vinnietbird on June 08, 2015, 07:59:09 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on June 08, 2015, 07:59:09 PM
O.K., my plan is to install Fox Mustang GT front brakes (rotors, spindles, calipers), and SN-95 rear brakes.......here's the twist....I like my wheels, I don't want to swap them. Couldn't I do the brake swap on the rear while maintaining the 4 lug axles by simply having the 5 lug rotors re-drilled for 4 lug? The axles are allegedly the same length as an SN-95. SO, just re-drill them, swap the booster, MC and proportioning valve (along with necessary hoses and hardware) and call it a day.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: FOX-XR7 on June 08, 2015, 08:12:41 PM
Post by: FOX-XR7 on June 08, 2015, 08:12:41 PM
Did you look into Mark VII discs? Or TC discs? I think they were all 4 lug still. You could keep your wheels and save $$$ without re drilling axles for 4 lugs. Not sure if theyre bigger and bettern but its just a thought...hope this helps.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: vinnietbird on June 08, 2015, 08:14:09 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on June 08, 2015, 08:14:09 PM
If the TC style rotors are the same as the SN-95, then that would be great. Mark VII is 5 lug.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: FOX-XR7 on June 08, 2015, 08:23:31 PM
Post by: FOX-XR7 on June 08, 2015, 08:23:31 PM
According to coolcats, the 87-88 TC brake rotors were 10inch. The 94-98 mustang rotors were also 10inch. 99, they changed to 11 inch rotors. I think they said something about the tc rotors are vented while the mustang rotors are solid. Here's a link...
http://www.coolcats.net/modifying/4to5lug.html
http://www.coolcats.net/modifying/4to5lug.html
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Beau on June 09, 2015, 06:32:25 AM
Post by: Beau on June 09, 2015, 06:32:25 AM
Vinnie, what you'd want to do is compare the TC rotor to the SN95 rotor to see if they have the same hat height.
If you had an SN95 rotor filled and drilled, it's going to have to be precise as the hub diameter on those (SN95) are bigger than the 4 lug stuff. Meaning, it will be centered via the studs rather than the "hub" on the axle.
That's why I suggested comparing the rotors side by side. In fact, I've got TC rotors AND Sn95 rotors, I could measure for you, along with pics and see if they're the same. Google probably has the info somewhere too if you've the patience to sift for it.
The diameter of the rotors are close enough that there's no real difference, the main things will be where the rotor's surface is in relation to the ..that is, if they're different, you'll have to move the caliper bracket to accommodate for it. That itself may be easy, or it may require cutting and welding...I'm not real keen on the rear disc stuff. The TC rear I have, I simply cut all the disc stuff, and modified things to go 5 lug drum brakes.
IIRC, when I took that TC rear from the yard, one of the calipers was seized, and the rotor on that side was chewed up, but if i can find the other.....
If you had an SN95 rotor filled and drilled, it's going to have to be precise as the hub diameter on those (SN95) are bigger than the 4 lug stuff. Meaning, it will be centered via the studs rather than the "hub" on the axle.
That's why I suggested comparing the rotors side by side. In fact, I've got TC rotors AND Sn95 rotors, I could measure for you, along with pics and see if they're the same. Google probably has the info somewhere too if you've the patience to sift for it.
The diameter of the rotors are close enough that there's no real difference, the main things will be where the rotor's surface is in relation to the ..that is, if they're different, you'll have to move the caliper bracket to accommodate for it. That itself may be easy, or it may require cutting and welding...I'm not real keen on the rear disc stuff. The TC rear I have, I simply cut all the disc stuff, and modified things to go 5 lug drum brakes.
IIRC, when I took that TC rear from the yard, one of the calipers was seized, and the rotor on that side was chewed up, but if i can find the other.....
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: JeremyB on June 09, 2015, 10:21:52 AM
Post by: JeremyB on June 09, 2015, 10:21:52 AM
Quote from: FOX-XR7;448725
According to coolcats, the 87-88 TC brake rotors were 10inch. The 94-98 mustang rotors were also 10inch. 99, they changed to 11 inch rotors. I think they said something about the tc rotors are vented while the mustang rotors are solid. Here's a link...
http://www.coolcats.net/modifying/4to5lug.html
I think all non-Cobra SN95 rear brakes are the same. 10.5" solid discs with the Varga caliper.
SN95 Cobras used 11.65" vented discs, but use the same calipers as the non-Cobra versions.
Std Rear SN95 Rotor http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=2035650&cc=1134201
Cobr Rear SN95 Rotor http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=2033096&cc=1372643
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: vinnietbird on June 09, 2015, 12:00:33 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on June 09, 2015, 12:00:33 PM
The front and rear brakes are small on my car. I need better brakes front and rear. Drums don't bother me at all in the rear if they are larger, BUT, if I could go to SN-95 discs, I'd like to install them, and some drilled and slotted rotors front and rear as well. I can get all of the rear brake stuff from an SN-95 at the boneyard for $80. Fronts, well, I gotta dig around and post for parts such as spindles, dust plates and all that. I'd need everything but the rotors for the front.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Billyf17 on June 09, 2015, 12:59:10 PM
Post by: Billyf17 on June 09, 2015, 12:59:10 PM
For the rear, to keep 4 lug, there really is only one option, IMO, TC rear. It's straight bolt in, designed for the car, same track width, e-brake will work with proper cables, vented discs, and so on.
For the front, make sure you get SVO calipers. They are a direct replacement for Fox Mustang calipers but have bigger bores. They were also on a lot of the bigger cars of the era, like the Crown Vic and variants, Continental, so they are plenty out there, and cheap. I got a pair on closeout from Rockauto for $27 shipped. They have a lot of 73mm bore calipers listed for less than $30 each.
For the front, make sure you get SVO calipers. They are a direct replacement for Fox Mustang calipers but have bigger bores. They were also on a lot of the bigger cars of the era, like the Crown Vic and variants, Continental, so they are plenty out there, and cheap. I got a pair on closeout from Rockauto for $27 shipped. They have a lot of 73mm bore calipers listed for less than $30 each.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: vinnietbird on June 09, 2015, 03:47:48 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on June 09, 2015, 03:47:48 PM
I will do that. I need spindles and dust plates for the front, then I'll buy the rest locally. I have a TC rear in the car, but with drum brakes. That stuff has to go.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Beau on June 09, 2015, 03:50:19 PM
Post by: Beau on June 09, 2015, 03:50:19 PM
I think he's got a TC rear?
Vinnie, I've got at least one set of Mustang 5.0 spindles (the ones you'd want).....they came off my convertible. I'd have to dig them out and see what shape they're in, and if they have the dust shields still. I took 'em off and put 'em in storage, and honestly, didn't pay much attention to them.
I did the 5 lug ten inch drum swap using a TC rear and SN95 axles, but I'm not sure if the TC rear, TC axles and Sport drums and backing plates would all be proper to give a 10 inch drum package with 4 lug. I've been intending to measure for Gary, but almost always have something going on or some distraction around here..
I suppose one way to tell right off would be to simply pull an axle, then slide a TC axle in, and put the Sport drum over the studs and see. Either way, it'll either make or break it for Gary, as he wants an 8.8 for his car, and it will give you a clue as to your idea too.
All I'd have to do is find a point of reference and measure to the , as we know the TC and SN95 axles are the same overall length. I'd still mock up the TC axle and a Sport drum just to visually make sure there's no contact.
This will ONLY work with Sport backing plates though...they have a different "depth" than the 9" drum backing plates. (also is the reason why this 4 lug, big drum swap wouldn't work on a narrow width Mustang 8.8, unless you wanted a wider track width).
And if the TC axles will work, I have an extra set of Sport backing plates if you needed them.
Vinnie, I've got at least one set of Mustang 5.0 spindles (the ones you'd want).....they came off my convertible. I'd have to dig them out and see what shape they're in, and if they have the dust shields still. I took 'em off and put 'em in storage, and honestly, didn't pay much attention to them.
I did the 5 lug ten inch drum swap using a TC rear and SN95 axles, but I'm not sure if the TC rear, TC axles and Sport drums and backing plates would all be proper to give a 10 inch drum package with 4 lug. I've been intending to measure for Gary, but almost always have something going on or some distraction around here..
I suppose one way to tell right off would be to simply pull an axle, then slide a TC axle in, and put the Sport drum over the studs and see. Either way, it'll either make or break it for Gary, as he wants an 8.8 for his car, and it will give you a clue as to your idea too.
All I'd have to do is find a point of reference and measure to the , as we know the TC and SN95 axles are the same overall length. I'd still mock up the TC axle and a Sport drum just to visually make sure there's no contact.
This will ONLY work with Sport backing plates though...they have a different "depth" than the 9" drum backing plates. (also is the reason why this 4 lug, big drum swap wouldn't work on a narrow width Mustang 8.8, unless you wanted a wider track width).
And if the TC axles will work, I have an extra set of Sport backing plates if you needed them.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: vinnietbird on June 09, 2015, 04:06:02 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on June 09, 2015, 04:06:02 PM
The Sport's rear brakes wouldn't work. The TC is not as wide.........I think. Same axles though. But the 8.8 was a little narrower than the 7.5 I believe.
I'll piece it all together. Gotta find out what year SN-95 rear brakes will swp over. The front is easy, just the bigger Fox Stang brakes.
I'll piece it all together. Gotta find out what year SN-95 rear brakes will swp over. The front is easy, just the bigger Fox Stang brakes.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Beau on June 09, 2015, 05:33:31 PM
Post by: Beau on June 09, 2015, 05:33:31 PM
You're correct, the 7.5 housing is wider than the 8.8 housing, but the to width is identical, the 7.5 uses shorter axles to accomplish this.
Ford and their oddball stuff. LOL
I'd either compare the TC discs to an SN95 disc, OR, see if the Sport rear drum will mate with a TC axle on the 8.8 housing and be in a proper location. I can test that for you...
As for a Mark VII rear, they are physically wider than a TC rear ( to , ALL 8.8 housings up to 1998 are the same width, themselves), the difference with the Mark 7 is the axles are even longer than the Tbird/Cougar axles, in regards to 8.8 rears.
In reality, any 8.8 (up to '98) housing will work, the track width is largely determined by axle length. There are basic configs, Fox Mustang 8.8, Tbird/Cougar 7.5, Tbird TC 8.8, SN95 Mustang 7.5/8.8 and Mark 7 8.8, of these, ONLY the Tbird/Cougar 7.5/TC 8.8 and SN95 combos have the same track width, not taking into consideration different offset wheel/tire combos.
What I need to do is go out and pull one of the SN95 axles from my TC rear, then slide a TC axle in, put a Sport drum on the studs and see if things match. If they do, we're on the right track, as that would mean that most likely, you could use a TC axle, TC rotor, and your choice of calipers, OR use the TC axles, Sport back plates, and Sport 4 lug drums and have a big drum rear.
Here in a bit when it cools off, I'll go pull the rear and check it out. It's kind of a concern for me as I have someone wanting the rear, but he's got a 4 lug car and would like to keep it so, so it wouldn't be a waste of my time ;)
I'll either test it tonight, or in the AM, and I'll post the results with pics. I've also got some stuff that a member was asking about to be photo'ed, I'm just waiting on the temps to come down a bit. Back is bothering me, but it hurts sitting inside, so may as well do a little and be productive too LOL.
Stay tuned...and hopefully my idea will pan out..
Ford and their oddball stuff. LOL
I'd either compare the TC discs to an SN95 disc, OR, see if the Sport rear drum will mate with a TC axle on the 8.8 housing and be in a proper location. I can test that for you...
As for a Mark VII rear, they are physically wider than a TC rear ( to , ALL 8.8 housings up to 1998 are the same width, themselves), the difference with the Mark 7 is the axles are even longer than the Tbird/Cougar axles, in regards to 8.8 rears.
In reality, any 8.8 (up to '98) housing will work, the track width is largely determined by axle length. There are basic configs, Fox Mustang 8.8, Tbird/Cougar 7.5, Tbird TC 8.8, SN95 Mustang 7.5/8.8 and Mark 7 8.8, of these, ONLY the Tbird/Cougar 7.5/TC 8.8 and SN95 combos have the same track width, not taking into consideration different offset wheel/tire combos.
What I need to do is go out and pull one of the SN95 axles from my TC rear, then slide a TC axle in, put a Sport drum on the studs and see if things match. If they do, we're on the right track, as that would mean that most likely, you could use a TC axle, TC rotor, and your choice of calipers, OR use the TC axles, Sport back plates, and Sport 4 lug drums and have a big drum rear.
Here in a bit when it cools off, I'll go pull the rear and check it out. It's kind of a concern for me as I have someone wanting the rear, but he's got a 4 lug car and would like to keep it so, so it wouldn't be a waste of my time ;)
I'll either test it tonight, or in the AM, and I'll post the results with pics. I've also got some stuff that a member was asking about to be photo'ed, I'm just waiting on the temps to come down a bit. Back is bothering me, but it hurts sitting inside, so may as well do a little and be productive too LOL.
Stay tuned...and hopefully my idea will pan out..
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: vinnietbird on June 09, 2015, 06:17:25 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on June 09, 2015, 06:17:25 PM
I was taught that the SN-95 rear axles are the exact same as ours.
The housing is narrower for the 8.8. Yes, the Sport's factory drum brake backing plate will bolt up, BUT, the drums are not deep enough to reach the backing plate due to the narrower housing, plus, all of my brake stuff from the Sport have been gone for years. I'm starting with nothing but little drum brakes out back, and little brakes up front.
Like I said, if bigger drums were readily available locally, I may do that, but, if I'm starting from scratch, and swapping the booster and MC anyway, why not go with discs?
Not that looks stop the car, because they dont, BUT, not only do they function well, they also will look good behind the 17 inch wheels with slotted and drilled rotors. I'd love to find the best functioning parts on a budget. Baer brakes are what I want, BUT, that's in the far distant dream world I like to visit from time to time when I feel like wishing big.
The housing is narrower for the 8.8. Yes, the Sport's factory drum brake backing plate will bolt up, BUT, the drums are not deep enough to reach the backing plate due to the narrower housing, plus, all of my brake stuff from the Sport have been gone for years. I'm starting with nothing but little drum brakes out back, and little brakes up front.
Like I said, if bigger drums were readily available locally, I may do that, but, if I'm starting from scratch, and swapping the booster and MC anyway, why not go with discs?
Not that looks stop the car, because they dont, BUT, not only do they function well, they also will look good behind the 17 inch wheels with slotted and drilled rotors. I'd love to find the best functioning parts on a budget. Baer brakes are what I want, BUT, that's in the far distant dream world I like to visit from time to time when I feel like wishing big.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on June 09, 2015, 08:06:58 PM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on June 09, 2015, 08:06:58 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;448756
You're correct, the 7.5 housing is wider than the 8.8 housing, but the to width is identical, the 7.5 uses shorter axles to accomplish this.
With length of housings varying, what's different is measurement from bearing surface to axle ... A larger space is necessary to fit the the brackets and calipers vs backing plate & brake shoes...
AFAIK the five lug SN95 axles are same as TC..
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Haystack on June 09, 2015, 09:25:59 PM
Post by: Haystack on June 09, 2015, 09:25:59 PM
I wouldn't bother with 10" drums as far as an "upgrade" goes. I've had a few 86-88 cars with the 10" drums and you wouldn't notice a difference till you had to pull a wheel off.
My opinion, if you wanna leave it 4 lug, your stuck with tc stuff. Unless you can't find it sn-95 rear disks wouldn't be worth the extra hassle in my opinion.
My opinion, if you wanna leave it 4 lug, your stuck with tc stuff. Unless you can't find it sn-95 rear disks wouldn't be worth the extra hassle in my opinion.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: vinnietbird on June 09, 2015, 10:51:46 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on June 09, 2015, 10:51:46 PM
TC brakes are fine with me, still an upgrade from the ones I have now. I also think the booster and MC need to changed since they are a couple of the only parts left that were installed by Ford many years ago.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Beau on June 09, 2015, 11:09:05 PM
Post by: Beau on June 09, 2015, 11:09:05 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;448760
How this is possible??? If to is same, axles have to be same length(I am assuming width of carrier inside rearend is same width)...
With length of housings varying, what's different is measurement from bearing surface to axle ... A larger space is necessary to fit the the brackets and calipers vs backing plate & brake shoes...
AFAIK the five lug SN95 axles are same as TC..
I would guess the 'Bird 7.5 axles physically sit deeper into the 7.5 housing as the to on that (and the '94-'98 Stang 7.5/8.8) are 61".
The Bird 7.5 housing is 55.6", while the 8.8 is 54.1", according to the chart posted in the driveline section..
The spline-to- measure on the bird 7.5 axle is 29.91", and that dimension on the SN95 axle (both 7.5 and 8.8) is 29.97 inches.
Therefor, it's my belief that using a Sport drum, backing plate, Mustang/TC 8.8, and TC axles *ought* to be dimensionally feasible to put together and work. But I've been wrong before. Like I said earlier, I'll mock it up tomorrow and eyeball it.
I'll see if I can find the axle chart, I've got the .pdf saved on the computer, but I think the "deciphering Fox axles" thread (stickied?) will have a link to that document as well...
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: vinnietbird on June 09, 2015, 11:14:01 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on June 09, 2015, 11:14:01 PM
I may just start looking for TC rear brake parts, that way, there is no question that they will work, as my rear diff. came from an '88 TC. SO, my plan....full TC brakes front and rear. Easy.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Kitz Kat on June 10, 2015, 03:02:25 AM
Post by: Kitz Kat on June 10, 2015, 03:02:25 AM
Some Taurus's have the rear calipers that are the same as tc's. Here's a pic of one.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: vinnietbird on June 10, 2015, 07:26:41 AM
Post by: vinnietbird on June 10, 2015, 07:26:41 AM
There's a V-8 Taurus SHO at the local boneyard. I'll check it.
I gotta find out where to get my parts. I need mounting plates, calipers, fasteners, rotors.....everything.
I will just start sourcing parts for a Turbo Coupe. If I can find reman. calipers cheap enough, I'll start collecting those and try to get the mounting plates and spindles and such here on the forum.
I gotta find out where to get my parts. I need mounting plates, calipers, fasteners, rotors.....everything.
I will just start sourcing parts for a Turbo Coupe. If I can find reman. calipers cheap enough, I'll start collecting those and try to get the mounting plates and spindles and such here on the forum.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Beau on June 10, 2015, 08:54:13 AM
Post by: Beau on June 10, 2015, 08:54:13 AM
Those Varga calipers...every one that I've ever seen in a junkyard have been seized...I'd definitely use new or remanned calipers. I'd not be afraid to reuse a rotor, but I'd sure check it, and have it turned if need be. Usually rear rotors don't get hot spotted like fronts unless the caliper IS seized and causes it to drag...
Then again, you could sell your wheels, find the exact same set in 5 lug, swap to the "better" front end, and then run the '99-'04 PBR calipers....want to talk about something that stops pretty good...of course there are Cobra brakes that follow, and they're even better. And much more dinero.
I've got the dual piston jobs on the stanger....love 'em. With the Nitto rubber, you stomp the whoa pedal, and she starts dropping speed like an egg hitting the ground. Now. LOL
I'll look for those spindles here in a few...going to be hot today, so I'm gonna get on it shortly. :)
Then again, you could sell your wheels, find the exact same set in 5 lug, swap to the "better" front end, and then run the '99-'04 PBR calipers....want to talk about something that stops pretty good...of course there are Cobra brakes that follow, and they're even better. And much more dinero.
I've got the dual piston jobs on the stanger....love 'em. With the Nitto rubber, you stomp the whoa pedal, and she starts dropping speed like an egg hitting the ground. Now. LOL
I'll look for those spindles here in a few...going to be hot today, so I'm gonna get on it shortly. :)
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: vinnietbird on June 10, 2015, 09:19:43 AM
Post by: vinnietbird on June 10, 2015, 09:19:43 AM
I have really never paid a lot of attention to the 5 lug swap. Never put any thought into it. Is it a huge ordeal?
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Beau on June 10, 2015, 12:45:59 PM
Post by: Beau on June 10, 2015, 12:45:59 PM
Actually, I think it's no worse than an 11" brake conversion, and you get the bennies of more wheel selections, brakes, and better stopping ability.
I've got a spare set of '94-95 spindles...hadn't really planned to sell them, but if you wanted to go 5 lug, I'd work with you. Grab a pair of SN95 axles and the brakes from that rear, the spindles, the rotor (the hub is separate, it typically stays with the spindle, and of course the Weatherhead 7828 adapter fitting for the passenger side brake line to flex hose, and also, the flex hoses are caliper specific...whether you will use the stock SN95 calipers or do as I did and go to the '99-04 calipers, you'll want to order the flex lines for the calipers you'll use.
One little thing, if you use the PBR calipers, you'll need to grind a little spot off of each spindle...nothing major, if you have a right angle grinder and a cutoff wheel, it's about a 5 second job. Mock the caliper and spindle up together, and you'll see where it needs a light buzz, take it down a wee bit, and then clean it up and paint. Good to go.
I feel it's worth it. You have the Anniversary wheels though, right? If those are out of production you might not be able to find them now.
Either way you go, I've got you covered on spindles, and if Gary wants the TC rear I have but in 4 lug, I have a pair of axles for you too. I'm not so keen on the specifics of the rear disc brakes...I've never really dove into them, other than to pull a few sets of axles from Sn95 cars...
If you can find axles locally, 7.5 and 8.8 SN95 axles are identical and all are 28 spline, and the proper length for an 8.8 in a '86-'88 Tbird/Cougar.
I've got a spare set of '94-95 spindles...hadn't really planned to sell them, but if you wanted to go 5 lug, I'd work with you. Grab a pair of SN95 axles and the brakes from that rear, the spindles, the rotor (the hub is separate, it typically stays with the spindle, and of course the Weatherhead 7828 adapter fitting for the passenger side brake line to flex hose, and also, the flex hoses are caliper specific...whether you will use the stock SN95 calipers or do as I did and go to the '99-04 calipers, you'll want to order the flex lines for the calipers you'll use.
One little thing, if you use the PBR calipers, you'll need to grind a little spot off of each spindle...nothing major, if you have a right angle grinder and a cutoff wheel, it's about a 5 second job. Mock the caliper and spindle up together, and you'll see where it needs a light buzz, take it down a wee bit, and then clean it up and paint. Good to go.
I feel it's worth it. You have the Anniversary wheels though, right? If those are out of production you might not be able to find them now.
Either way you go, I've got you covered on spindles, and if Gary wants the TC rear I have but in 4 lug, I have a pair of axles for you too. I'm not so keen on the specifics of the rear disc brakes...I've never really dove into them, other than to pull a few sets of axles from Sn95 cars...
If you can find axles locally, 7.5 and 8.8 SN95 axles are identical and all are 28 spline, and the proper length for an 8.8 in a '86-'88 Tbird/Cougar.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: vinnietbird on June 10, 2015, 01:51:09 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on June 10, 2015, 01:51:09 PM
I'd like to work a deal with you on them. I may go 5 lug. My wheels are the deep and deeper Cobra R wheels with the rivets around the perimeter. I could gather wheels over time, then sell mine later.
Beau, can you PM me a detailed list of that stuff I need and from what years of cars? I will look locally and see what I can find. I am guessing that V-6 and V-8 cars shared the same front spindles.
I gota sell my Mass Air computer and meter for some funds. Gotta shoot Kitz money as well.
Beau, can you PM me a detailed list of that stuff I need and from what years of cars? I will look locally and see what I can find. I am guessing that V-6 and V-8 cars shared the same front spindles.
I gota sell my Mass Air computer and meter for some funds. Gotta shoot Kitz money as well.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: vinnietbird on June 10, 2015, 01:54:57 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on June 10, 2015, 01:54:57 PM
I gotta find the differences between the SN-95 7.5 rear and 8.8 as far as gathering the parts I need. If the 7.5 rear from one of those cars is wider, like they are in our cars, I'd need to find V-8 parts for the rear.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Beau on June 10, 2015, 03:21:56 PM
Post by: Beau on June 10, 2015, 03:21:56 PM
PM sent :)
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Ramos617 on June 10, 2015, 03:34:33 PM
Post by: Ramos617 on June 10, 2015, 03:34:33 PM
You might not need the adaptor
With my 87 TC the stock 03/04 cobra brake lines bolted right into the factory lines. I don't think the thread are different reg sn95 vs cobra
With my 87 TC the stock 03/04 cobra brake lines bolted right into the factory lines. I don't think the thread are different reg sn95 vs cobra
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: vinnietbird on June 10, 2015, 04:27:57 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on June 10, 2015, 04:27:57 PM
The TC probably has fittings like the Mustang GT. Mine are Sport Thunderbird lines, meaning....same as the V-6 junk.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Beau on June 10, 2015, 05:02:34 PM
Post by: Beau on June 10, 2015, 05:02:34 PM
I had to use the fitting on my Sport, and my 2.3 Stanger. Never messed with a TC, but Vinnie's likely correct. Seems like when I put the Fox 11" brakes on my white car back in 2005 I had to use that fitting then too. , that seems forever ago...
Here I go, getting all nostalgic..quite unlike me...not..
Here I go, getting all nostalgic..quite unlike me...not..
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Ramos617 on June 11, 2015, 08:06:17 PM
Post by: Ramos617 on June 11, 2015, 08:06:17 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;448786
The TC probably has fittings like the Mustang GT. Mine are Sport Thunderbird lines, meaning....same as the V-6 junk.
Ahh didn't think about that
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: JeremyB on June 11, 2015, 08:46:54 PM
Post by: JeremyB on June 11, 2015, 08:46:54 PM
Quote from: Ramos617;448784
You might not need the adaptor
With my 87 TC the stock 03/04 cobra brake lines bolted right into the factory lines. I don't think the thread are different reg sn95 vs cobra
Rockauto will generally tell you if the ports for the MC and calipers are the same. Centric usually shows their specs.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1430183,parttype,1704
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=2038606&cc=1430183
'03/'04 Cobra and '87 TC use 10mmx1.00 threads on the caliper
Non Cobra SN95 uses 10mmx1.50 threads
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Ramos617 on June 11, 2015, 10:34:15 PM
Post by: Ramos617 on June 11, 2015, 10:34:15 PM
Quote from: JeremyB;448809
Rockauto will generally tell you if the ports for the MC and calipers are the same. Centric usually shows their specs.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1430183,parttype,1704
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=2038606&cc=1430183
'03/'04 Cobra and '87 TC use 10mmx1.00 threads on the caliper
Non Cobra SN95 uses 10mmx1.50 threads
Nice to know, I guess I got lucky doing my swap then lol
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Aerocoupe on June 12, 2015, 05:15:45 PM
Post by: Aerocoupe on June 12, 2015, 05:15:45 PM
Vinnie,
So are you going five or four lug?
Darren
So are you going five or four lug?
Darren
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: vinnietbird on June 12, 2015, 05:43:27 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on June 12, 2015, 05:43:27 PM
Not sure Darren.....here's the deal.....I can go with the larger Fox Mustang brakes up front (or Turbo Coupe), and use the TC rear brakes (or SN-95 brakes drilled for 4 lug). OR, do the 5 lug swap and sell my wheels and buy replacements. Depends on cost and availablity of parts. I'm thinking 5 lug would be the way to go because of brake options. Not concerned with the availability of wheels. I'd keep the same style.
I don't mean to be wishy washy, this is really the first time I've really started to think seriously about upgadin them. I know mine suck, so, something has to change.
I'll just do it like everything else....make a list of everything I'd need, start gathering pieces one at a time (or more parts if the deal is good) til I get everything....once I have everything, tear into it.
I don't mean to be wishy washy, this is really the first time I've really started to think seriously about upgadin them. I know mine suck, so, something has to change.
I'll just do it like everything else....make a list of everything I'd need, start gathering pieces one at a time (or more parts if the deal is good) til I get everything....once I have everything, tear into it.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Ramos617 on June 12, 2015, 07:15:13 PM
Post by: Ramos617 on June 12, 2015, 07:15:13 PM
If you wanted to stay 4 lug I might have everything you need, shipping would be costly though
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: vinnietbird on June 12, 2015, 07:25:18 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on June 12, 2015, 07:25:18 PM
I would need everything except the rear axles to stay 4 lug. My axles are fine.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on June 13, 2015, 02:37:20 PM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on June 13, 2015, 02:37:20 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;448837
Not sure Darren.....here's the deal.....I can go with the larger Fox Mustang brakes up front (or Turbo Coupe), and use the TC rear brakes (or SN-95 brakes drilled for 4 lug). OR, do the 5 lug swap and sell my wheels and buy replacements. Depends on cost and availablity of parts. I'm thinking 5 lug would be the way to go because of brake options. Not concerned with the availability of wheels. I'd keep the same style.
I don't mean to be wishy washy, this is really the first time I've really started to think seriously about upgadin them. I know mine suck, so, something has to change.
I'll just do it like everything else....make a list of everything I'd need, start gathering pieces one at a time (or more parts if the deal is good) til I get everything....once I have everything, tear into it.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: vinnietbird on June 13, 2015, 05:09:36 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on June 13, 2015, 05:09:36 PM
I don't mind TC brakes and 4 lug at all. I mean, I already have wheels that still basically brand new. 4 lug would really make things easier.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Aerocoupe on June 16, 2015, 08:07:28 PM
Post by: Aerocoupe on June 16, 2015, 08:07:28 PM
So here is what you can do to stay four lug and get some better braking.
Front Brakes
Move up to the spindles for the 11" front brakes, get some remanufactured 60mm front calipers, some new 11" rotor, new bearings, and some really good brake pads. For the pads I would suggest Hawk HP's. I run them and they do not dust like the HP+'s but they are fairly aggressive and resist fade really well.
Rear Brakes
Swap out to the TC rear end. You already have the housing and gears so all you need is the axles, axle brackets, caliper brackets, calipers, rotors, and soft brake lines. If you can find a complete TC rear end that may be easier to just swap in but with that you have unknowns like the bearings, seals, gear wear, worn calipers, etc. However you come up with the hardware to make the swap I would suggest some remanufactured calipers, new rotors, and some Hawk HP pads. Again, I run the Hawk pads so I have a lot of faith in them.
Master Cylinder and Brake Booster
At this point you are running the 93 Cobra brakes so upgrade to the 93 Cobra MC and Booster. I don't think I really need to explain why but if need be I can get into it as I have done several times on this site in other threads. You may also need to get the 3-2 conversion kit but I cannot remember what MC you have now.
Adjustable Proportioning Valve
Get one and install it on the line to your rear brakes. Gut the proportioning valve side of the factory combination valve (brass distribution block) under the MC mounted on the inner fender area. A new nut/plug will be needed and are available at Late Model Restoration Supply. Google this here or on the interweb as it has been beat to death.
Bleed your brakes and you are done. This is as good as a four lug braking system will get without spending money on an aftermarket kit but once you see the cost on those you will just sell your wheels and convert to the SN95 stuff and be done with it.
Remember, you need to bed your brakes after installing them to get maximum performance and I recommend doing this every once in a while as it cleans the pads and rotors and who doesn't like the smell of burnt brake pads in the morning?
DO NOT get the 73 mm SVO front calipers unless you are willing to install the larger SVO rear calipers. This is called brake bias and Jack Hidley explains this pretty well here:
http://forums.corral.net/forums/5297690-post43.html
If you have any questions let me know but this is it man, other than this you need to step up to the SN95 brakes which opens up a whole new world.
Darren
Front Brakes
Move up to the spindles for the 11" front brakes, get some remanufactured 60mm front calipers, some new 11" rotor, new bearings, and some really good brake pads. For the pads I would suggest Hawk HP's. I run them and they do not dust like the HP+'s but they are fairly aggressive and resist fade really well.
Rear Brakes
Swap out to the TC rear end. You already have the housing and gears so all you need is the axles, axle brackets, caliper brackets, calipers, rotors, and soft brake lines. If you can find a complete TC rear end that may be easier to just swap in but with that you have unknowns like the bearings, seals, gear wear, worn calipers, etc. However you come up with the hardware to make the swap I would suggest some remanufactured calipers, new rotors, and some Hawk HP pads. Again, I run the Hawk pads so I have a lot of faith in them.
Master Cylinder and Brake Booster
At this point you are running the 93 Cobra brakes so upgrade to the 93 Cobra MC and Booster. I don't think I really need to explain why but if need be I can get into it as I have done several times on this site in other threads. You may also need to get the 3-2 conversion kit but I cannot remember what MC you have now.
Adjustable Proportioning Valve
Get one and install it on the line to your rear brakes. Gut the proportioning valve side of the factory combination valve (brass distribution block) under the MC mounted on the inner fender area. A new nut/plug will be needed and are available at Late Model Restoration Supply. Google this here or on the interweb as it has been beat to death.
Bleed your brakes and you are done. This is as good as a four lug braking system will get without spending money on an aftermarket kit but once you see the cost on those you will just sell your wheels and convert to the SN95 stuff and be done with it.
Remember, you need to bed your brakes after installing them to get maximum performance and I recommend doing this every once in a while as it cleans the pads and rotors and who doesn't like the smell of burnt brake pads in the morning?
DO NOT get the 73 mm SVO front calipers unless you are willing to install the larger SVO rear calipers. This is called brake bias and Jack Hidley explains this pretty well here:
http://forums.corral.net/forums/5297690-post43.html
If you have any questions let me know but this is it man, other than this you need to step up to the SN95 brakes which opens up a whole new world.
Darren
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: JeremyB on June 16, 2015, 09:13:32 PM
Post by: JeremyB on June 16, 2015, 09:13:32 PM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;448928
DO NOT get the 73 mm SVO front calipers unless you are willing to install the larger SVO rear calipers. This is called brake bias and Jack Hidley explains this pretty well here:
http://forums.corral.net/forums/5297690-post43.html
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: vinnietbird on June 17, 2015, 07:46:35 AM
Post by: vinnietbird on June 17, 2015, 07:46:35 AM
Awesome info. Thanks a lot. I'll go that route.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Aerocoupe on June 17, 2015, 01:07:44 PM
Post by: Aerocoupe on June 17, 2015, 01:07:44 PM
Well good luck and post up what you do and the results.
Darren
Darren
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: vinnietbird on June 17, 2015, 02:34:31 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on June 17, 2015, 02:34:31 PM
I will post up pics and everything once I gather everything I need. It'll take time, but it will get done.
Title: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea
Post by: Beau on June 17, 2015, 02:49:27 PM
Post by: Beau on June 17, 2015, 02:49:27 PM
Vinnie, I'm not trying to sway you in any way, but with the TC/11" setup, you're pretty much at the design limits of the brakes, short of better pads and DOT 4 or 5 fluid, though that's probably overkill for anything but a dedicated track car.
If you even slightly think you'll go 5 lug some day down the road, may as well do it now...no sense in doing it twice, though that's the biggest irony, coming from me.
Just a thought. Either way, as I've mentioned, I've got both sets of spindles...etc.
If you even slightly think you'll go 5 lug some day down the road, may as well do it now...no sense in doing it twice, though that's the biggest irony, coming from me.
Just a thought. Either way, as I've mentioned, I've got both sets of spindles...etc.