Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

I'm going to replace the cam bearings before installing a new E303 cam and was wondering what the choice size bearing people used here. Would a stock size bearing fit for the new cam? I have not mic the cam bearing lobes yet , but I figured it would be set to the stock measurement for bearings so they fit the journals.
I guess I am going to have to design a tool also to knock the old ones out and install the new bearings. I was thinking about going to oriellys or autozone and tool borrowing one of their bearing insert tools. I still will need a straight bar and some type of cone to keep the bar straight as I tap in the bearings. The tools they had seemed too short to insert the 2 inner bearings.
I'm doing this without removing the crank and pistons, so it will be a very careful process to match the oil ports exactly.
One other thing about the new bearings, I read somewhere that to grind a groove on outside of the ring of the cam bearing closest to the thrust bearing for allowing oil to flow to timing chain or something like this. This might of been just a mod that I seen done in a youtube video, but seemed to be a decent idea anytime you can make better lubrication to a moving part.

Here is an example of what I explained. It would be just a surface groove for the incoming oil to enter timing chain and down to the sprocket shaft area.

Most of the time cam bearings are only changed when a block is rebuilt. If you're just swapping cams there really is no need to change the cam bearings.

If you drill a small hole in the oil plug in front of the block to spray on the cam gear, id think it would get the chain too. Google sbftech. They have a thread on this.

Stock size cam bearings for any FACTORY STYLE cam. Rent, beg or borrow a cam bearing driver/installer tool if you need to change them. I broke down and bought the driver tool.

The small ford does not have a timing chain issue. It has enough lubrication stock. But you can drill out one of the gallie plugs for more oil spray. use app a .060 drill. As far as cam bearings they will have to be installed with the proper tool and sometimes sized for clearance. Not something a novics should be doing. But as they say you have to start sometime. Good luck. But i would have them changed by a professional

I won't argue with you Tom. It takes a delicate touch to get new cam bearings in. However, still an easy job.

This.

Use the tool. When I did my engine last summer, I had to throw a set of bearings away and do them again because even though I thought I was clever enough to improv a tool, the cam would not turn when installed.  Now I have the tool, and I've only used it once.  I'm confident I will again, but I still get that disgusted feeling when I look at the case.

X2 on not changing them unless the engine was ran out of oil or there was some debris, such as metal flakes, or something. If you can get a look at em and they appear sound, and mic ok, I'd leave them. I'm leaving the stock bearings in mine...everything looks pretty good, far as I can tell.

If you want the absolute piece of mind though, have someone change them, if you're not comfortable doing them yourself. I put some in when I rebuilt my Jeep 360 20 years ago in high school...shaged one up. Thankfully the instructor was a real old gearhead from way back when...he literally whipped out his pocketknife, shaved the messed up bit down, and stuck the sumbitch in. Never ever had an issue with the internals on that engine..just a fuel filter, and of course, the near constant points adjustment..carb adjustments, etc.

Good shiznit, lollipop. :)

Ahhhh, I like the... leave the stock ones in comments very much.:D I did take a look inside and the bearings look pretty darn good. Nice even wear and no grooves. In fact the entire engine I picked up looks exceptionally good. Every piston, valve, cylinder, etc...looks completely uniform with each other and all 8 spark plugs were identical, but a little on the rich side. The motor still has cross latch in the cylinders, so someone did take care of the engine before they ran the car into something and sent it to the wrecking yard. The engine is down to pistons and block right now and I just finished decarbonizing the pistons so I have no hot spots later on. The heads are on the bench now with one completely dismantled. I will do the same with the other one and then haul them down to the local car wash to power wash them clean. Everything will be replaced when I put them back together except for the valves, which I will be re-lapped. I will be matching the ports to the gaskets with a little machining as well.
I still have a huge list of work to do on this build and its moving along.
Just a quick note to Tom, ;) I'm not a novice so to speak, but I understand your comment respectfully. I have been involved with OHC engines with only half the amount of cylinders of this latest build I am doing. In fact this is the first American car and V8 I have owned yet in my life of 54 years, lol. So for me, it just pays to ask for good advise from experienced Ford guys and that way no mistakes are made later. Plus it has a confidence factor as well.
You didn't mention where about of the plugs that would be ok to drill out, if I may ask. We have the same sort of thing on the G63B motors where we drill out 4 areas on the inner block for oilers directed to the rods. Since I have the engine at this point of being dismantled, I'd like to do everything I can before its put back together. Thanks everyone for chiming in, your comments are always welcomed.


Here is a build I just completed not to long ago. Though, I must admit that this one had a full set of racing bearings installed, plus a one of a kind lobed grind, custom Schneider Race Cam . ;)

Problem is some cam journals were cut on the low side of speck on some 302 ford engines. So the replacement bearings are a bit tighter closing up the final clearances. Whenever a machine shop installs cam bearings they always want the can to check for proper clearances. This is with every engine as one does not know what the numbers will come out to be after the bearings are installed. If in fact they are to tight and it happens more times than not you have to shave them. What i do is  install and try the cam after each time one is installed for clearance. Another words pick 2 and install them and try the cam for clearance. Then install another and so on and so forth till you have installed all of them and the cam is clearances correctly This way you are not fighting to find out which one is to tight. Doing it this way can solve a lot of issues with tight cam bearings. What i meant by a novice is someone that does not do it like once a month or once a week. Some people only install bearings once in thee lives or twice . Sorry for poor choice of words. But CAM bearings either go 2 ways a breeze or a nightmare. You have to have the tool. No question about that. Also the bearings are set to specific locations in many engines make sure you follow the procedure. Good luck

Most head, cam, and intake swaps are done leaving the existing cam bearings.  If you are questioning them take the short block to a machine shop and pay the money to have them mic the cam bearings and the mains & rod journals.  This way you will know if you can leave the cam bearings and what size bearings to replace the mains and rod bearings with if they need it.  At a minimum I would install new piston ring sets as well as replace the oil pump.  From there just use good gaskets and button it back up.  I use clear automotive silicone on the ends of the lower intake with no gasket as the cork ones are a joke.

Darren

Thanks for that information very much and no problem on the novice said word. I can see that the advise you give is good and your just laying down the facts. I'll do some measurements on the already installed bearings and mic the cam and check the oil clearances before I cement my decision on either way. It's always possible the bearings could look perfect, but allow too much or not enough clearance for oil.
On another matter have you ever noticed the side lubricating holes on roller lifters? I have noticed that on the old set there were tiny approx 1 mm wide oilers on the side. When I lifted out the first one I noticed the hole and then checked placement on the others as I removed them. Well, there was no uniform placement on the rest so I figure that these holes just pickup residual oil on the sides of there home or they were an escape hole for oil as the rods compress the lifter springs inside. Do you or anyone else know if these roller side oilers need to be facing up or downward when reinstalling new rollers?

thx :D


PS. Nice cars Darren!

Is this the original 85 block? Of you have e-6 heads, id at least throw e7 heads at it. If they are the older pre 85 heads, then they aren't bad enough to warrant an upgrade.

Have you checked piston to valve clearance before you decided on the E-cam? You might bebetter off with a stock h.o. cam in the mean time.

I was told the cam would be fine and no valve interference with the stock engine. Will check clearances before starting the motor.

The '85 engine was removed completely with the alt, AC, PS pump...the entire thing, lock stock and barrel.

These are the heads of the "85 motor.


The replacement is a 1988 302 from a 1988 Thunderbird that had the SEFI. SEFI is being removed for carb swop.

This is the '88 motor when I brought it home----------------------------------Before/After cleaning up the '88 cylinders and pistons.

Here are the 1985 302 pistons



These are the '88 heads starting cleanup



all the heads from the late 70's to the late 80's have 1.78 intake and 1.46 exhaust valves. The heads used from 79-84 have 67.5cc-70cc combustion chambers. The E5 heads have 67cc-70cc chambers. The E6 heads have 62cc-65cc chambers. The E7 heads have either 62cc-65cc chambers or 60cc-64cc chambers depending on casting number.
The critical part of piston to valve clearance will be mostly affected by exhaust valve size and camshaft exhaust duration, timing, & lift. E303 cam combination could work with the E7 heads.
I should be fine as long as I stay away from the 1.7 rockers.

1988
5.0 V8 302 4.00 x 3.00 MPI 8.9:1 155@3400 275@2000

1985
5.0 V8 302 4.00 x 3.00 TBI 8.4:1 140@3200 250@1600



5.0L (302ci) V8 - STOCK STANDARD OUTPUT MOTOR
(late 1983-1988 Cougar and Thunderbird, 1987-88 Cougar XR7)
F
OHV
1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
CCW .054 10 degrees BTDC

5.0L (302ci) V8 - HIGH OUTPUT MOTOR
(1991-93 Cougar/Thunderbird, 1987-93 Mustang, 1986-92 Lincoln Mark VII)
(T)
OHV
1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
CCW .054 10 degrees BTDC




MY parts list

Ford Racing Roller HO E303 1.6 cam card firing order shows >1,3,7,2,6,5,4,8?
Comp Cams Magnum Double Roller Timing Gear Set
Edelbrock 1406 600cfm 4bbl carb
Edelbrock 2121K Performer Intake & kit
MSD Digital 6A Multispark Ignition
MSD 8282 Blaster ll Coil
Chrome Valve Covers/T-handles
Chrome Hugger/Shorty Style Headers
Duralast Modified Duraspark Wide Cap Distributor w/Machined Gear
March Performance Serpentine Underdrive Pulley Kit
FelPro Full Gasket Kit w/One piece Blue Oil Pan Metal Inlaid Rubber Gasket
Ford Racing Rollers & Push Rods
Trick Flow Valve Double Spring Set
B&M AOD Shift Improver / Street Set Installation

The E6 heads are quite possibly the worst heads put on a 302/5.0 from the factory. If you still have the E5 heads use them instead of the E6 heads. The E6 heads actually flow less air than the E5 heads.

The 86-88s.o. blocks not only have worse heads, but they also have no valve releifs in the pistons, decreasing ptv compared to basically any other sbf made.

Id clean up the e5's or swap to e7's. If you want oem reliability and performance, the gt40 or gt40p heads are the best factory heads, p heads require specific headers.

Make sure when you button everything up, you check piston to valve. I personally would still stick with the h.o. cam over the e cam "upgrade", but the ecam would likely be better on a carbed motor, assuming valves clear.

Btw, a e6 to e7 swap generally gains anywhere from 5-15hp with no other changes according to coolcats.net.

OP, I'd really suggest some HO pistons while you've got the block that far apart. I have a set from an HO that I took apart...with them in the block, the e cam will not be an issue. As mentioned, I'd be very leery of the e cam with the flat tops. Not trying to spin you for a buck...but would hate to see a fresh engine ruined..

If you were closer, I'd make you a deal on a solid and complete HO engine...needs a rebuild though, but it's all there, minus headers.