Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: ysgeye on January 29, 2015, 02:59:59 PM

Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: ysgeye on January 29, 2015, 02:59:59 PM
I have been wondering:  I have heard of 4 cyl. engines that were modified to produce 1000 H.P.  If that is so, how can I go about getting 300 H.P. from a 1987 3.8L engine (rated stock at about 120 H.P.)?
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: White85GS on January 29, 2015, 03:33:34 PM
The 94-95 SC was 230hp/330 ft lbs. from the factory, swap one of those in.
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: Beau on January 29, 2015, 04:00:03 PM
Start with a 4.2 block from a '97+ truck. add as much money as you can, get a big blower, some nitrous, good pistons, bore the shiznit out of the block, do all the other hot rod tricks, and call morana racing for all the details. I think he's still in business.


Keep in mind those 1K horse 4 bangers aren't streetable...and it's going to be expensive to get 300 horses from a 3.8 Esshag and not spit headgaskets..one of the weaknesses of an otherwise fairly decent engine.

If the power is the goal, and not so much doing it with a 3.8, I'd suggest dropping in a stroked and poked 5.0, using an aftermarket block so you won't have a custom "two-piece" job as soon as you turn the wick up...

Don't forget, even with a 220 horse HO engine in one of these cars, with the shiznitty small brakes and mushy suspension of a 30 year old car...it's scarily apparent how much else has to be brought up to speed to make a well rounded "go" car than can also stop with confidence. Then of course there's the transmission and rear...neither of which will hold up to frequent full throttle blasts with a 300 horse engine.

The last 2 cars I've tinkered with, I've started with the brakes and rear....my engine is still on the stand, and it's likely going to fall short of my 300/300 horse/torque goal...but the potential is there should I later add force induction...I've assembled my parts with that end in mind, 255 lb/hour fuel pump, blower friendly cam, and stock compression ratio.

One of my friend's brothers is at Procharger, and Steve has one on his car, too, and right now, my engine has better parts than his. His is stock, even down to the TB, and I've got GT40/Cobra heads and intake, and a 65mm TB. Even with the same setup he has, I don't think my combo would be at or above 500 ponies...he's got the 150 horse setup now, but has another pully for it to step that up, though I don't know what PSI he's set at right now.


It's all fun and games...till you have to write the checks for it...plan it out, and get good parts to start with. Cheap shiznit will only last so long. No offense if you're set on a V6...they can be made pretty fast, but it will cost you more than it would with a V8.

The SC 3.8 is pretty nice, but it's a job getting everything and there's a little light fab work to get it going. A few people here have done it though. If I went that route, I'd again start with a 4.2 truck block and go from there. More inches makes more power. :)

Good luck!
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: Haystack on January 29, 2015, 09:39:41 PM
V6power.net

Personally, id swap a newer 3.8-4.0 out of a newer mustang and throw a turbo at it if your dead set on the 3.8.

The same money goes farther faster with a 302.
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: JeremyB on January 29, 2015, 10:31:58 PM
Quote from: Haystack;443655
The same money goes farther faster with a 302.
Yeah, the 3.8/4.2 Esshag never got much above boat anchor status as far as horsepower. My 2002 3.8 splitport that's been waiting installation for 5 year now (ouch, lol) is beyond outdated. Current gen 3.5L V6s run 270/300 hp. The 3.8 topped out at 200 horsepower before it was replaced by the 4.0 (also a turd).
Go with a 302/347/351!
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: Beau on January 29, 2015, 11:27:15 PM
460. D0VE heads. Nice cam, exhaust, intake, carb, CJ 429 heads. 550 horse and easily that much torque without even trying. Weight aside...I'm looking at this for my '84 notch...only I need a 460, the heads, the cam, the carb, the intake, and most of all, the money to do it. Hey, I got the mounts!!
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: thunderjet302 on January 31, 2015, 05:29:24 PM
The best way to make a 3.8 Fox Thunderbird/Cougar faster is to swap in another engine ;).
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on February 01, 2015, 11:02:44 AM
For about 15 minutes, there was a performance aftermarket for the Esshag engine family, now it is gone.
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: Thunder Chicken on February 01, 2015, 12:39:47 PM
15 minutes? Kinda like the 3.8 T-Bird's quarter mile time?
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: White85GS on February 01, 2015, 02:17:57 PM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;443762
15 minutes? Kinda like the 3.8 T-Bird's quarter mile time?

Nah, a 2.3 auto Mustang is worse, lol
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: Haystack on February 01, 2015, 02:39:51 PM
But with a 2.3 you could add a turbo and t-5....
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: thunderjet302 on February 01, 2015, 09:46:11 PM
Turbo a 3.8. Then watch it blow up 100 feet down the road. Replace with a better engine.
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: White85GS on February 01, 2015, 11:55:29 PM
Iirc, the manual used in the SC was the one from the F Series? My last Ranger had the lighter duty version of it, a great trans, but the stock slave cyls are , lol.
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: Beau on February 02, 2015, 03:33:52 AM
Yeah, the manual behind the SC 3.8 was the Mazda M5. Fairly tough, but not indestructible.

And I agree 100% on the slave cylinders. I've replaced enough of them that when I die, I want to haunt to the guy who designed them...LOL.
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: Kitz Kat on February 02, 2015, 04:27:50 PM
I'm still holding the 1 year built 3.8, 88, If someone wants it.
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: JeremyB on February 03, 2015, 11:43:37 AM
Quote from: Haystack;443767
But with a 2.3 you could add a turbo and t-5....
You can add a T-5 to the 3.8 easy.
You can add a turbo too. Maybe just set the wastegate at 0.5 psi though. :D
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: Haystack on February 03, 2015, 02:11:11 PM
T-5 would be a worthwhile "upgrade". Madoe a huge difference on my 5.0 lopo. Probably make a 3.8 not feel gutless too....
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: turbotrav on February 03, 2015, 06:47:10 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;443732
The best way to make a 3.8 Fox Thunderbird/Cougar faster is to swap in another engine ;).


Unless u put a turbo on that beast, no power.  I dont think hhas dealt with the computer system. Then the weak AODand also the 7.5" will come an issue at some point.

But your car is still a fox body so the mods are endless.

Travis
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: Haystack on February 03, 2015, 11:31:35 PM
An open 7.5 will last forever in my opinion. I have heard horror stories of them blowing up easily, but i haven't had an issue with any of mine.

My tbird with a 3.35 first gear and 275/60's out back was very fun. Dumping the clutch at 25mph did one of two things. Lit up one tire and sat there, or launched, HARD. Enough to blow three motor mounts in a year, and break the motor mount bracket and all but one bolt off inside the block.
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: Beau on February 04, 2015, 04:55:36 PM
I've seen and heard of 7.5's taking abuse for years, even on the strip with stickies and gear and juice.

I've seen and heard of 7.5's shiznitting the bed on the street with good radials....

It's hard to say if one out of 10,000 will fail...I'd definitely put my money on the AOD leaving you with your thumb in the air over the 7.5, however.

The benefits of the 8.8 are revealed by the bigger ring gear...it's a little stronger. At the cost required to actually need the stronger rear, odds are, a stock c-clipped 8.8 is also going to be at the lower end of the reliability scale. Better build that bitch up!
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: thunderjet302 on February 04, 2015, 04:57:30 PM
Actually from what I've read the weak point in a 7.5" rear isn't the ring gear or pinion but instead the spider gears. Those tend to shatter under high horsepower.
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: Haystack on February 04, 2015, 05:29:06 PM
Yup, its the spider gears. The v-6 in the newer mustangs still had the 7.5 with near 300hp and torque.
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: thunderjet302 on February 04, 2015, 05:31:22 PM
Quote from: Haystack;443912
Yup, its the spider gears. The v-6 in the newer mustangs still had the 7.5 with near 300hp and torque.

Actually all '11 and up Mustangs (both 3.7 V6 and 5.0 V8) have an 8.8" rear with a Traction-Lok. My '12 V6 Mustang does.
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: jandmmustangs on February 04, 2015, 05:33:10 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;443913
Actually all '11 and up Mustangs (both 3.7 V6 and 5.0 V8) have an 8.8" rear with a Traction-Lok. My '12 V6 Mustang does.

You are correct sir, sorta. The standard rear in a 12 stang was an 8.8 with 2.73 gears. The axle package for the 6 cylinder cars gave you a 3.31 trac loc.
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: thunderjet302 on February 04, 2015, 05:35:01 PM
Quote from: jandmmustangs;443914
You are correct sir, sorta. The standard rear in a 12 stang was an 8.8 with 2.73 gears. The axle package for the 6 cylinder cars gave you a 3.31 trac loc.

Nope it's a 2.73 Traction-Lok standard. I know because we custom ordered the car and looked at all the option sheets. A limited slip is standard on all '11 and up Mustangs.
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: mcb82gt on February 04, 2015, 05:48:34 PM
Quote from: Haystack;443882
Dumping the clutch at 25mph did one of two things

What the hell is the point of dumping the clutch at 25 MPH??????

Are you saying rolling at 25, you floored the accelerator  and popped the clutch??????
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: Haystack on February 04, 2015, 06:51:11 PM
Yes, rolling and dumping the clutch.

I didn't know the exact year of the switch over for the 8.8. 2010 is still a new car to me.
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: Beau on February 04, 2015, 11:01:05 PM
You can also rub bacon grease on your ball bag and let the neighbor's cat lick it off, but I wouldn't advise doing that any more than I would rolling at 25mph, popping the clutch, and flooring it.

No wonder you went through all those motor mounts... LOL
Title: 1987 T-Bird 3.8 performance?
Post by: Haystack on February 05, 2015, 02:50:08 AM
I like to have fun. The 30lb truck flywheel made down shifting at 35mph in 1st almost as spectacular. Bet i would have ripped the rear end out of it if it had traction lock. I love barking tires while engine braking.

Part of the reason i push the cheap and available sn-95 t-5's so much, if it can live through me, it would last forever for anyone else ;).

Also, did you know that 57mph is the max speed i can get with my 308k mile block in 1st gear with an aod?