Saw this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-FORD-MUSTANG-SPECIAL-SERVICE-FAN-CLUTCH-SSP-POLICE-5-0-REAL-DEAL-/121434780430?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c4613b30e
$259.99. I'm glad I picked mine up when I did. Performance Parts Inc. shows them as "Sold Out." Wonder if any more will pop up.
Fox parts are getting expensive. Remember when you could pick up a known working A9P ECU for $25 bucks? They go for 10 times that now.....
What other parts have you guys noticed have skyrocketed in price recently?
Wow.
He had one earlier this year for 139. And I thought he was full of shiznit so I didn't buy it because BEFORE THAT, the website was selling 'em for $99 and I got one for the red car.
I'd like one for the black car, although I don't think I really super-duper need it. Being a stick, and having a Mustang fan and the thick aluminum radiator, it did well this summer on the hottest days even sitting in traffic.
Frankly that just ain't worth it IMO. Might as well do an electric fan setup or something. I think the "heavy duty A/C" clutches and a Mustang fan, along with a GOOD thick radiator with the right alloy/construction will move the heat you need to move.
I have heard that the A9 computers have really gone up in recent years, specifically because of people putting "old" (huhhhh? LOL) 5.0's in '60s Mustangs.
I bet that the design and makeup of the bimetallic strip/spring in a thermal fan clutch is exactly what makes or breaks it...the rate that the one side expands at is going to give you the curve of how much it engages when needed and how much it freewheels when NOT needed.
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-gm-diesel-engines/20-6-2l-diesel-engine/369661-modifying-fan-clutch.html These guys talk about moving around the anchor point by making another notch in the little bracket that the stationary end is held at. This wouldn't help with HP drain, just with cooling.
So someone's gotta find out who makes those springs/find a part #/let them sample an SSP clutch spring to measure its response and generate specs, then spit 'em out so we can convert all of our clutches to "SSP" clutches! :hick:
I've been doing some research and it seems that a good upgrade on the cheap is the heavy duty F-150 fan clutch for a 5.0. I might hit up a parts store to price one out and take a look if they have one in stock.
My car runs a hell of a lot cooler now than it used to with the new 3-row rad/9 blade fan/SSP clutch. I can sit in 100 degree traffic without issue now. I'm looking for parts now that will hopefully be around for a while that will do the trick when my current ones bite the dust many years from now.
A truck clutch sounds legit. Definitely worth testing.
The ear can definitely tell if its a major difference...you hear a LOTTA air moving. I'll be sure and test the spring modification. I'm a lot less concerned with the power loss when it comes down to it. If I have to make a compromise, it'll be in favor of cooling every time.
I do hope at some point a repop market will appear...all depends on the future interest in the vehicles.
EDIT - to further the original intent of the discussion...There's one or two eBayers that I am convinced have a PILE of both left/right NOS units, some with the bracket, most without.
That part seems entirely dependent on the seller. Some want triple digits, others will let 'em go for $50-60. Keeping in mind that I think it was quoted on here that $500 per set is what a Ford dealer wants IF they have 'em, even low $100's is a deal.
That fan clutch is worth it. I got one a few years ago for $99. That fan clutch with a 2 row (1inch each tube) aluminum radiator, 9 blade HO fan, and a 180* thermostat works great. The car runs 180* (give or take 5*) in all weather, A/C on or not.
Found some good info here: http://forums.corral.net/forums/general-mustang-tech/1378511-police-clutch-noise.html
Hayden Part # 2783 would be their "Severe Duty" application that should work nicely. There's a link to the application chart in that thread
http://www.haydenauto.com/upload/HaydenAuto/Documents/Cat_Hayden/2007-hayden-fan-clutch.pdf
FWIW that particular part # can be had for $54.91 from Amazon.com as of the time I post this.
You know I've SEEN those Hayden diagrams but like...just glossed over it. Don't know why I didn't take note of the percentages. I used to think it was on/off, not still slipping just a little even at "full" engagement.
Sounds like the police clutch may not be anything exotic, just shifting the range, not expanding or contracting it. The Hayden severe duty sounds perfect, that actually DOES expand the range. Less drag when you don't need it, and lots of cooling when you do. For $54 on Amazon, I think I'll take the plunge and test it.
If it works let us know. It would be a viable replacement for the Police Interceptor clutch.
I bought SSP fan and clutch a few years ago...didn't realize they had went out of production. I'll have to say it was a fairly cheap upgrade that made a huge difference in summer driving for my car. It always runs cool now.
Edit: Also yeah i have noticed the price and availability of parts is scarce in my area. You don't see many 30 year old cars now a days. 10 years ago parts were cheaper and on the shelf.
A junkyard 3.8 Taurus fan, controller, and those ties that go through your radiator make it ezpz to free up some HP. Hundred buck job for the life of the car.
Looks like the Imperial brand of fan clutches made for Advance Auto (and possibly other stores) is made by Hayden. If you're looking for the Hayden part # 2783, tell the clerk at the counter you're looking for a fan clutch for a 1991 Dodge Dakota 4WD with the 5.2 V8. The Severe Duty 2783 equivalent is an OEM substitute. It will not spec anything less for that vehicle.
Well, picked up an Imperial 215130 (same as 2783) and a new thermostat and heater to water pump hose. Replaced all the back ones last week on the Mark VII and the thermostat hose decided to let go today.
Does moving the fan load from the water pump to the alternator result in less fanbelt load on the engine?
I know you are making a point but,,
I think someone here tested this out and arrived at the conclusion that the alternator driven devices burden a gasoline engine more than mechanically driven.
JUUUUUUST GREEEAATTT.....
I paid $229 for this back in May..... http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=M8005A+01
$400 as of the time of this post..... Talk about something that shot up FAST!
At that price, I'll look for a decent aluminum one for next time......
Probably be better to find a decent-looking used take-out from a salvage yard or CL and have it boiled out if it's clogged. Wow.
Check Rockauto at all? I would imagine everything they've got is probably yucky aftermarket units...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vista-Pro-433385-Radiator-Direct-Fit-Copper-Brass-Ford-Mercury-V8-Each-/390981113862?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5b084a5806&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spectra-Premium-CU561-Radiator-Copper-Brass-Ford-302-351M-351W-400-460-Each-/191417972895?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c9166789f&vxp=mtr
First one is apparently .5" thicker, both 3 cores. From Summit racing. Vista Pro / Spectra. No idea what the workmanship of either of those suppliers is...but they ain't cheap all the same! The second one is most likely a 1970's application. Might fit a Fox engine bay anyway.
I bought an aftermarket rad from Rockauto a couple years ago for my Panther-body...I think it was $150 or so. Some rows near the bottom are experiencing paint flake-off, but the unit seems robust, hasn't sprung a leak, cools very well. It's either a 3 or 2 core can't actually remember but it's quite thick, almost twice the thickness of the stock Panther radiator which is frighteningly thin, about 1"...
I've been running this radiator from Summit in my Thunderbird for several years: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-380451/overview/year/1988/make/ford/model/mustang
With a 180* thermostat, Police Interceptor fan clutch, and a 9 blade fan the car runs 180*-185* all the time. Even when the A/C is on and the car is idling in traffic when it's 90*+ outside.
Running them through the compatibility check on Ebay shows they will not fit a 1990 Mustang, 1990 LSC, or a 1987 Cougar/Thunderbird.
That Summit piece looks pretty nice. Price isn't too bad for a 2 row aluminum as well..... I wonder if the high s price of copper is finally having an effect on products that contain copper or perhaps copper mining on the whole has had an interesting event occur....
This seems decent as well.....
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/FHP-20A93MU/79-93-Fluidyne-50L-Automatic-Mustang-Aluminum-Radiator
The summit radiator is nice. It's made in the USA (at least it was when I bought mine a little over two years ago) by Northern Radiator.
Well, I installed the Imperial/Hayden Severe Duty fan clutch on the Mark VII.....
Works nicely. I have to flush my system. AGAIN. Gonna use some of the Prestone Flush/Cleaner, drive it around a bit, and install a new mix of coolant. After a full flush AND replacing everything today the new stuff is already turning a bit orange after 30 minutes of run time.
My AMP light came on too. Voltage at the battery is 12.7 @ idle and 15.3 @ 2000 RPM. Guessing the voltage regulator took a dump.
If you replace the voltage regulator get a Motorcraft one. I replaced the one on my Mark when I bought it with a BWD part. It ped out in two years. Got a Motorcraft on it now.
That's right...I said I'd be a guinea pig and try that clutch. Never did. I think I just got a "heavy duty A/C" clutch when I replaced the non-thermal clutch in the black cat. It seems to do well in the summer heat, not going above 180-185 but I do NOT hear that fan like I do in the red one with the SSP clutch. Would prefer it stay closer to 160 even in traffic. Below 40-50 degrees ambient, the thing struggles to get past 150...
I will get one of those clutches though. Gimme some time I'll git 'er done. Definitely in the position to play test guy.
I was also supposed to check my ECM for you. Haven't forgotten ;) This weekend is turning out incredibly boring. I'll pull that kick panel tomorrow. I think it was pin 31? *Sigh*. Can't even remember what I was looking for. Have to go dig the thread up.
Why do you want the car to run 160*? My Thunderbird runs 180*-190* in the summer. Well within specs. 160* is a little on the cool side as far as engine wear goes.
The biggest factor is overheat protection, second being power. And I'll admit I've never really looked into *what* gains you get, if it's anything substantial. Obviously fuel consumption increases. But I've had enough overheating problems with vehicles in general, surely nothing but faulty cooling systems...and at the time in my paranoia I decided that the only safe course of action was to make everything I own run as cold as possible so I'd have some time in the event of a hose failure or something. Had that happen TWICE in the middle of the winter with the 'Vic. Absolutely horrible, and like I want to go through and replace EVERY hose? What happens in another 20 years? I hate rubber. Obviously corroded or something. But it would help if the system didn't build so much pressure. I've tried to fight that too. I don't fully understand why sometimes there's pressure and sometimes not, even in the same ambient conditions and loading/driving. 160 degree stat, I've seen the upper hose hard and soft while everything's clearly at no higher than 160-170 degrees.
Do our 302's use different bearing clearances than a 60s/70s 302? If so then I'd agree, wear would increase. I've always attributed it to the era of emission controls and CAFE requirements, as that was about the time you started seeing 180-195 degree stats come into usage.
Frankly, it's so much easier to mess with stuff in the engine bay while it's running at that temperature :hick:
I don't get the whole pressure/no pressure thing either. I've noticed if I start the Thunderbird or Mark VII and drive right away that they will pressurize. If I start them and let them idle for a minute and then start driving they won't pressurize. I do notice that when the system pressurizes not much coolant makes it to the overflow bottle. If the system doesn't pressurize the overflow level goes up about 1.5 inches. My theory is that the vent in the cap closes with rpm, causing the system to pressurize. If the engine idles the fluid just rises in the radiator and goes to the overflow instead of pressurizing the system. Then again sometimes the system pressurizes and sometimes not randomly despite the prior conditions. You would think a system that is sealed should always pressurize but sometimes it doesn't.
You will run pig rich anytime the computer sees less then 180degrees on a fuel injected car.
I'll most likely toss 180 stats in both the cougars before winter's end. See how they do. I definitely don't want them staying out of closed loop.
I received a PM asking me about the current wheels I have on my car. I actually went to the Summit website to provide links only to find that the 15X7's I have up front are no longer available. Everybody's discontinuing 4 lug stuff. I just ordered one this past July as I curbed one badly avoiding an accident with another vehicle. A rim is cheaper than a front end. Seems if a curb another one that bad (it actually threw the wheel out of balance due to the amount of aluminum that sed off) I may have to switch to a set of Drag Lites (overplayed) or throw in the towel and do a 5 lug conversion.
I like my 15's and particularly these rims. That and all my brake/suspension hardware has hardly any mileage on it since I upgraded.
Or I could just really shell out for a set of custom fit Volk TE37's. I aint got 3 grand to blow on wheels though.....
If I ever get rid of the snowflakes I would go with these wheels: http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/LRS-1007RSL/1979-93-Mustang-Silver-Lh-93-Cobra-Wheel-17X85 Not overdone and I think they would fit a Fox Thunderbird/Cougar very nicely.
What are they called, just out of curiosity?
That is shocking, to see 4-lug stuff starting to disappear. I thought the trend was opposite, wasn't it 10 years-ish ago everyone wanted to do 5-lug conversions for the bigger wheel variety? Seemed to me now that wasn't necessary anymore. Interesting.
Here's the now defunct link to them:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-521-5734ps
They still have the rears. Not sure how a 15x8 would work up front. Would need 5.5 backspace and would probably rub....
Oh wow so they're actually made by Summit. Or re-branded or something.
I mean that's basically a Weld Prostar right? That was what I thought they were initially.
They are common but nowhere NEAR as ubiquitous as Draglites. My God...you see those and expect a barn-burner but they're worn by many wanna-be drag racers with all roar and no acceleration.
I'm guessing they're made for Summit. Probably the same company who makes them for Jeg's.