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General => General Fox T-Bird/Cougar Discussion => Topic started by: MY83T on March 20, 2014, 09:54:01 AM

Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: MY83T on March 20, 2014, 09:54:01 AM
Ok guys, most of you know the story behind my flooded 83 Heritage.  I finally summoned the courage to pull the tarp and do a initial assessment of damage outside of the obvious cosmetic/interior/wiring stuff i knew i would be facing.  I wanted to try and turn the motor to see if she would crank.  I pulled the air cleaner lid, and there was salt residue around the carb bowl.  I did not realize water had risen that high.  I checked the oil and there was water beading on the dipstick pretty far up, so i know there is water in the pan.  I know this does not bode well for me.  I know there are some obvious answers here:

1. Pull what i can off the car and s the rest.  (I know this is logical, but i have much emotion invested in this car)

2. Tear down/rebuild/replace the motor    (Money i don't have to spend right now)

So i really want to keep the car, and i understand that i will be putting way more in time and money than the car is worth.

What can i do short term to try and save the motor, and possibly to get running? 

1. drop pan and change out oil.

2. Clean carb and bowl

3. check plugs for rust to see where and how the water penetrated

Beyond that what else can i do minimize the damage, or enhance my chances for getting her to run again without a major teardown?
Thanks to all in advance for your thoughts on this.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: jrad235 on March 20, 2014, 10:26:08 AM
Well, I would suggest changing the oil and getting it running ASAP, but I thought the V6 was the only one with a carb? I thought the 5.0 Had CFI on it. if that's the case, there are a lot of stupid electronics on there to get damaged. Also, if the water made it that high, how much made it into the fuel tank?

 If attempting to get it running, pull the spark plugs and make sure you aren't going to hydro lock it when you turn it over.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: MY83T on March 20, 2014, 10:59:47 AM
well, its CFI, so its the venturis/bowl i am speaking of.  i am more concerned about the internals, to try to avoid a teardown, rebuild.  all the connectors etc, although a royal pain, i can handle bit by bit.  Fuel tank, totally unknown, but i think i might be safe there.  even if the water made it to the tank spout, between the cap and metal door, being in place, i might be ok, and usually kept the tank more than 3/4 full at any given time.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: EricCoolCats on March 20, 2014, 01:57:37 PM
If it were me, I'd definitely drop the fuel tank and drain it, along with the fuel lines and change out the filter.
But otherwise, with an oil change and some cleaning up, my gut says that you might be just fine.
It's worth a shot anyway.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 20, 2014, 02:46:04 PM
Drain and change the fuel and filter, oil and filter, transmission fluid, power steering fluid, brake fluid, and coolant. If water got that high it has got to be in all the fluids under the hood of the car. Hopefully it did not cause any internal rusting in the engine.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: V8Demon on March 20, 2014, 02:51:41 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;430904
Drain and change the fuel and filter, oil and filter, transmission fluid, power steering fluid, brake fluid, and coolant. If water got that high it has got to be in all the fluids under the hood of the car. Hopefully it did not cause any internal rusting in the engine.


Don't forget the rear.  Did the carpet in this car get wet in any way?  I know you're saying it wasn't submerged, but even if it sat with an inch or two for an extended period of time it will be worth swapping it out.  The car's been open to the elements so right now it's most likely not noticeable.  Replacing the glass coupled with a warm day with sun WILL cause any bad odors to rear their heads.

Post up some pictures of the undercarriage, interior, and under the hood.  It may help remind us of trouble spots you need to be mindful of.

And Dave, for safety's sake do not forget:  Salt water is bad, but there are worse things. 
I don't want to gross you out, but I'm sure you're aware of what kind of system lurks under the street and/or the yards of Long Island.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: MY83T on March 20, 2014, 03:39:46 PM
Quote from: V8Demon;430906
Don't forget the rear.  Did the carpet in this car get wet in any way?  I know you're saying it wasn't submerged, but even if it sat with an inch or two for an extended period of time it will be worth swapping it out.  The car's been open to the elements so right now it's most likely not noticeable.  Replacing the glass coupled with a warm day with sun WILL cause any bad odors to rear their heads.

Post up some pictures of the undercarriage, interior, and under the hood.  It may help remind us of trouble spots you need to be mindful of.

And Dave, for safety's sake do not forget:  Salt water is bad, but there are worse things. 
I don't want to gross you out, but I'm sure you're aware of what kind of system lurks under the street and/or the yards of Long Island.

Paulie,
there was water in this car all the way up to radio, and outside up to the Air cleaner.  It was submerged.  The back window is busted out, and i have a tarp in place, but its far from airtight, so the car is completely dry, and no mold or odors at least.  I have to go over every inch of this vehicle before i can ever safely drive it anywhere.  Common sense says strip what i can save and dump the rest.  This is not a logical decision on my part, but your first car as long as its in your possession is very special.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: STANG8U on March 20, 2014, 04:06:59 PM
Lots of work if its going to be saved
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Haystack on March 20, 2014, 04:55:10 PM
I wouldn't worry about the motor. oil gets water in it when it sits. I mean change it of course, but I doubt it killed the motor.

Drain the gas see what it looks like, throw another few gallons in it with a new fuel filter and see if it fires up. id also be worried about floor pans. I think I would pull the carpet just to see what it looks like under there, if it starts.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Clayton on March 21, 2014, 05:09:44 AM
Change all the fluids from fuel to windshield washer fluid. That salt water does some pretty nasty stuff. Water shouldnt hurt the engine to much. If you want to make extra sure pull the plugs and put a little oil down in the cylinders so the upper end of the engine is lubricated a little bit. Get some cheapo oil and mix half a quart with about half a quart of kerosene to clean the internals. Run it for about half an hour (if she starts which i see no real trouble there) then change the oil and you should be good
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: turbotrav on March 21, 2014, 08:06:43 PM
If this was a newer car with full coverage on it....the insurance company would totally it....just saying.

All the above advise seems good to revive the driveline.
But the electronics are probably done if a battery was charged and in the tbird when she got wet.

If u love it then save it....if not...maybe way more effort then its worth.

Travis
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: turbotrav on March 21, 2014, 08:07:17 PM
If this was a newer car with full coverage on it....the insurance company would totally it....just saying.

All the above advise seems good to revive the driveline.
But the electronics are probably done if a battery was charged and in the tbird when she got wet.

If u love it then save it....if not...maybe way more effort then its worth.

Travis
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: MY83T on March 21, 2014, 11:09:33 PM
Quote from: turbotrav;430972
If u love it then save it....if not...maybe way more effort then its worth.

Travis

Travis, that is THE question here........
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Bob on March 21, 2014, 11:41:24 PM
keep the car dude,  take it from someone that got rid of one before, you would regret it.

Put it aside till you find the time and or money to do it how you want.  Hell I've had my cougar on the side burner for 5 years now,  and it will stay there till it's time.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: MY83T on March 21, 2014, 11:44:32 PM
Quote from: Bob;430988
keep the car dude,  take it from someone that got rid of one before, you would regret it.

Put it aside till you find the time and or money to do it how you want.  Hell I've had my cougar on the side burner for 5 years now,  and it will stay there till it's time.

DING DING DING.......WE HAVE A WINNER!  Thanks Bob, thats the idea, and the cheerleading i need about now.  Appreciate it.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Bob on March 22, 2014, 12:00:55 AM
Just giving my 2cents.. ultimately you need to do whats best for you too,  not just the car lol.  Some guys don't understand how someone can quit on a project car when huge obsticles come,  it's not that they can't be overcome them or are giving up. It's just the car and the project is causing more stress and headache than it's worth to them.  Most of us here do this because its fun and we enjoy it,  when you stop enjoying it.. than it's time to find a new hobby or project car.

So ask yourself that question,  do you still enjoy the car and want to continue?  If so than recovering from the flood shouldn't be too difficult.  Lot's of help here to get you through it too.  Good Luck ;)
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: MY83T on March 22, 2014, 12:19:30 AM
Quote from: Bob;430991
Just giving my 2cents.. ultimately you need to do whats best for you too,  not just the car lol.  Some guys don't understand how someone can quit on a project car when huge obsticles come,  it's not that they can't be overcome them or are giving up. It's just the car and the project is causing more stress and headache than it's worth to them.  Most of us here do this because its fun and we enjoy it,  when you stop enjoying it.. than it's time to find a new hobby or project car.

So ask yourself that question,  do you still enjoy the car and want to continue?  If so than recovering from the flood shouldn't be too difficult.  Lot's of help here to get you through it too.  Good Luck ;)



Love you guys! (in the brotherly double pat on the back kind of way)  :-)
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: MY83T on March 22, 2014, 08:24:21 AM
I had a interesting development last night.....an old pal of mine with a custom car shop and Limo shop has a daughter getting married here on Long Island.  We chatted about me taking the photos and video for the event, and bartering for the T-Bird resto came up, we are meeting on Tuesday to discuss.  Looking for a donor/parts car......... this may work out after all.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: TOM Renzo on March 22, 2014, 05:11:39 PM
For
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: BornInAFord on March 22, 2014, 07:51:11 PM
The only way to get rid of the salt water effects is to completely gut and strip the car to a shell and start over using a good donor/parts car.  You may even be able to upgrade while you are in there.  Yes, the car will never be "worth" the money invested, but using that criteria, most of us wouldn't sink much money in ours, either.  No $5000 repaint will make our cars worth more than $5000, etc.  Since you don't ever plan to part with it, the "worth it" part is moot.  You'll be investing in your soul, not in the car.

I was impressed with how your house turned out--from "ruined" to gutted to rebuilt nicer than you started with.  Let's see what you can do with your car. :)  Best of luck to you.

Daniel
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: TOM Renzo on March 22, 2014, 08:25:53 PM
The
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Drewstang on March 22, 2014, 09:09:55 PM
Quote from: MY83T;430998
I had a interesting development last night.....an old pal of mine with a custom car shop and Limo shop has a daughter getting married here on Long Island.  We chatted about me taking the photos and video for the event, and bartering for the T-Bird resto came up, we are meeting on Tuesday to discuss.  Looking for a donor/parts car......... this may work out after all.
Like I said in the PM on 4ep, I have the interior minus dash out of the is 86 which is really a 83/84 interior. Find a way to get it to you, you can have it. All the seats are plush cloth and in decent shape. There should be pics in my project thread.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: MY83T on March 23, 2014, 01:44:49 AM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;431024
The car wwill have to be soda blasted to remove the salt and completely dissembled. Then it will have to be acid etched as the paint will not stick after blasting. That alone will cost app 4000.00  bucks not including paint and primer another 5K and a donor car and tuns of time and you will need a big garage to do this. Bottom line is that car is HISTORY just stating a fact as to the reality of the situation. Really is that car really worth all the time and effort. It is easier to part it out for whatever is salvageable . And that is a stretch at best and buy another car and start over. There is an old saying cut your losses and move on. Just me being honest!!

Tom, i know your heart is in the right place,and that you are completely correct about the cost-vs-value of doing this to restore my Bird.  Until i speak with my friend on Tuesday, i am in a holding pattern to figure out what is the most logical course of action, balancing the common sense parts with the emotional parts.  If my pal takes this on, it will be a straight up barter, and so i just have to see what the deal is.  Thanks for your honesty.


Quote from: Drewstang;431030
Like I said in the PM on 4ep, I have the interior minus dash out of the is 86 which is really a 83/84 interior. Find a way to get it to you, you can have it. All the seats are plush cloth and in decent shape. There should be pics in my project thread.

Hey drew, thanks for the very kind and gracious offer.  I may need a few things so, just hold tight for me.    I just the 4EP message, i don't check in over there as often as here.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: TOM Renzo on March 23, 2014, 06:51:43 AM
hay
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Drewstang on March 23, 2014, 08:17:04 AM
Quote from: MY83T;431045
Hey drew, thanks for the very kind and gracious offer.  I may need a few things so, just hold tight for me.    I just the 4EP message, i don't check in over there as often as here.
No problem. Its all in storage at the moment and its not going anywhere.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: MY83T on March 23, 2014, 08:47:45 AM
Quote from: BornInAFord;431020
The only way to get rid of the salt water effects is to completely gut and strip the car to a shell and start over using a good donor/parts car.  You may even be able to upgrade while you are in there.  Yes, the car will never be "worth" the money invested, but using that criteria, most of us wouldn't sink much money in ours, either.  No $5000 repaint will make our cars worth more than $5000, etc.  Since you don't ever plan to part with it, the "worth it" part is moot.  You'll be investing in your soul, not in the car.

I was impressed with how your house turned out--from "ruined" to gutted to rebuilt nicer than you started with.  Let's see what you can do with your car. :)  Best of luck to you.

Daniel


Hi Daniel,

Kind and thoughtful words, much appreciated right now.  I look forward to sharing this transformation with you.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Thunder Chicken on March 23, 2014, 05:36:00 PM
If there was salt water in that engine for this long it is finished. Ditto the rear end and tranny. I know this isn't good news to you, but it is the case. The electronics and wiring are also all likely FUBAR'd, too.

That being said, if the body is solid, you now have a perfect starting point for a project. The car is at the point right now that it would cost just as much to bring it back to stock as it would to make some nice upgrades. Find yourself a rusted out Fox Stang and there's your drivetrain. Better yet, find yourself a rusted out SN95, and there's your drivetrain as well as a nice suspension and brake upgrade. Find a rusted out fox Bird or Cougar and there are your interior wiring and electronics. Spend a few bucks at CHE for some control arms, etc. You could turn the car into a nice pro-touring ride if that's your style, or keep it looking stock but without that embarrassing 80's performance.

Contrary to what Tom said, the body being exposed to salt did not instantly kill it, and it does not need any special stripping or blasting. You live in New York, whose climate is very similar to ours in Nova Scotia, so I'm sure this is not the first time the car has seen salt. It didn't do the car any favours, of course, but if it's not rusting through from that exposure chances are it's not going to. A good pressure washing inside (after stripping the interior out, of course), outside and underneath would be a help though. Cars around here are exposed to salt pretty much constantly from November through March, inside and out (all that salty slush on peoples' feet ends up in the carpeting, which is why floors rot out from the inside out). Just from driving normally in winter virtually every nook and cranny of a car will be exposed to salt water (and road salt is usually a lot higher concentration than sea salt). Salt is forced into places you'd never have though possible (I've actually seen it travel through nearly 25 feet of trailer brake controller wire and form white deposits under the dash from salt water entering at the trailer connector). About the only part of a car not normally exposed to salt during winter driving would be the interior, from the seat mounts up.

The upshot: You've got a shell to use as a blank canvass. Jerry has shown that cars with sentimental value can be brought back from extremely poor condition and upgraded very nicely along the way. Only you can decide whether your car has enough sentimental value, but you do have to be prepared to accept that for better or for worse the car as you knew it is gone forever...
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: TOM Renzo on March 23, 2014, 07:12:31 PM
Vv
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: MY83T on March 23, 2014, 08:20:52 PM
Hey guys, thank you all for the different ideas and valuable advice.  I know there are always going to be differing ideas. Just for clarity here is my head so far:

1. Yes, salt water is poison to everything.
2. Whatever i spend/barter to do this is retarded because of value to cost ratio.
3.even with a proper donor car, this will an immense undertaking.
4.common sense says dump, strip-sell off what i can.

5. I have listened, sought good advice, and decided after careful consideration, this car will live on as well preserved stock 1983 Thunderbird Heritage.  Its my first car, my car that my wife and i grew up in, the car i sowed my glorious days of a mis-spent youth in.  It will never leave my family, therefore the value to cost thing is basically irrellevant. Some things are not about money. Traditions, and memories are huge parts of this life we live, and i will not allow a freak of nature to undermine my life any more.  Too much ruined for my kids already.
This barter arrangement with my friend is a sign from above that this meant to be.  He told me it will be 6+ months, and i told him time is not a factor here, just want it right. He was touched by the history and story, lives here and experienced sandy up close.  He told me if this was for a flip, he would not touch the car.  The entire car is going to be stripped and soda blasted and dipped.  Proper frame off with a 83/84 heritage/elan being sought for donor parts.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: TOM Renzo on March 23, 2014, 08:56:32 PM
here
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Thunder Chicken on March 24, 2014, 05:40:46 PM
*sigh* This forum was so much more enjoyable for the recent 15 minutes or so Tom was behaving himself...

Not going to argue with you, Tom, as it'd be more productive (and entertaining) to argue with a mule. This post will be my last on the subject.

You said yourself that spring rains sufficiently wash the salt off, and yet this particular car has to be soda blasted?

News flash, Tom: Salt is water soluble. That's how water becomes salt water. It's basic chemistry. No acid dipping is required.


Now, as I said, this applies ONLY to the body. Any moving parts (including the pedal pivots you mentioned) will need to be disassembled and cleaned, or better yet, replaced. This applies to all electronics as well. Only the steel shell is salvageable. I said this in my first post, had you bothered reading it before going off on one of your "I'm TOM REZNO, dammit, and I KNOW EVERYTHING" tangents. Thank you, BTW, for not posting pics of some bazillion dollar car that has nothing to do with this thread, as is your usual MO (though you couldn't help but mention that GNX, I guess the world owes you for that). 

As for insurance companies writing cars off after salt water submersion: Once more, I must drive it into your head that I was referring ONLY TO THE BODY!!! Of course insurance companies will write a car off then they have to replace all of the mechanical and electronic bits. Even if the damaged components could be replaced cheaply enough the insurance company would not want to take on the liability of putting that car back on the road. I've seen brand new cars written off because kids broke into the compound they were stored in and walked on the roofs, denting them. The insurance company wrote the cars off because they didn't want to bet on the structural integrity of those slightly dented roofs. I also saw a year old Trans Am GTA written off because somebody broke into it and stole the seats, and cut the seat belts during the theft. Easy repair, but the insurance company didn't want the liability because of the seat belt damage.

A flood car is written off for economic and legal reasons, NOT BECAUSE THE BODY WAS DESTROYED. It's because of the cost of replacing everything attached to that body. Unless the car spent the last six months under water THE BODY WAS NOT DESTROYED.

You got that? Because I typed it as slowly as I could...
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Drewstang on March 24, 2014, 05:58:50 PM
Well, this escalated quickly.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Thunder Chicken on March 24, 2014, 07:31:34 PM
As things usually do when somebody dares to contradict Tom.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: BornInAFord on March 24, 2014, 08:09:45 PM
Well, I hope spring gets here soon for all of our sakes...  This stubborn weather creeps into our posts. ;)
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: EricCoolCats on March 24, 2014, 08:21:25 PM
:popcorn:
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Tbird-fanatic on March 24, 2014, 08:43:24 PM
If ya need me to track anything down from that 84 TC thats in the yard by me, let me know. The same yard also has a 5.0 CFI(if memory serves me right thats the motor!!) 4 eye cougar in it.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Haystack on March 24, 2014, 09:13:29 PM
I've seen car immersed in the great salt lake (about 3 times the salt content of the ocean) pulled out and driven home. I've also seen people drag old car shells out of it and rebuild them. one was supposedly under for 40 years. there were holes, but much more intact then I would suspect.

My money still says it will fire up and run, maybe even drive without any major repairs. change fluids,pull spark plugs, crank it over and then fire it up and see what you are actually dealing with.

Wish you the best.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: TOM Renzo on March 24, 2014, 09:14:16 PM
[quote=
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: V8Demon on March 24, 2014, 09:32:54 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;431155
a fast calculation of cost would dictate someone is going to have a hefty bill.


Dave isn't some shclub with a Kodak disposable camera. 
Wedding and event photography is his bread and butter and to be honest takes time, patience, understanding and a whole lot of talent.  I'm not talking just behind the camera either.  A top notch photographer these days in the northeast can EASILY command more than what the normal high end full repaint costs.  I understand that this is a special case, believe me I've seen first hand some of the cars destroyed by Sandy that made their way out to CoPart via a flatbed.  At one point they actually had a staging area for them in a humongous field.

It will be done right.  Dave will be happy.  At the end of the day THIS is what matters. 

Quote from: MY83T;431088
Its my first car, my car that my wife and i grew up in, the car i sowed my glorious days of a mis-spent youth in.  It will never leave my family, therefore the value to cost thing is basically irrellevant. Some things are not about money. Traditions, and memories are huge parts of this life we live


^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
[/B][/SIZE]
THIS
[/B]

A thousand times THIS.  It basically sums up why I've kept mine.  Mine wasn't the FIRST car I drove, but it WAS the first one with the title in my name.  Tons of good memories in mine.  And when I dirve it on a nice day and everything's clicking there is a contentment that I feel behind the wheel of no other vehicle.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: MY83T on March 24, 2014, 09:41:03 PM
This is all i have to say on the matter.......



X



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5cneCgNA9U
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: TOM Renzo on March 24, 2014, 09:49:04 PM
Washing
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: MY83T on March 24, 2014, 09:56:03 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;431168
Washing the soda blasted metal with holdtight 102 will give you about a five day window before paint.

Good luck on your project. And thanks TOM.

Thanks Tom, i know you mean well.  Please understand, aside from the back and forth about right or wrong about the soda blasting etc, this is a emotional decision and not a intellectual or financial one.  The opportunity has presented itself for me to do this right, and to be honest, had it not, i would be stripping and dumping this car.  It was a blessing my friend had this event coming up so i could do this in this way.  He is a super talented body man, old school and knows his stuff backwards and forwards.  I will take tons of pics and keep you all posted on the progress once she is carted away.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Chooglin on March 25, 2014, 05:42:14 AM
Quote from: Drewstang;431139
Well, this escalated quickly.


Welcome to the "Tom Renzo show" once again !!!
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: TOM Renzo on March 25, 2014, 05:57:39 AM
Yes
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: TOM Renzo on March 25, 2014, 06:00:42 AM
Xxx
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Chooglin on March 25, 2014, 06:02:55 AM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;431188
Yes sir Chooglin i am happy to mention i am now I CAR certified along WITH JR. And both of us are npw Porsche and MB factory certified I CAR. AND YOU!!!

http://www.i-car.com/index.shtml

So big shagING DEAL...... Who gives a shiznit !!! ....... Your an asshole !!!
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: TOM Renzo on March 25, 2014, 06:15:24 AM
Thank
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: TOM Renzo on March 25, 2014, 06:28:22 AM
83
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: TOM Renzo on March 25, 2014, 07:02:56 AM
Just
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: V8Demon on March 25, 2014, 12:46:00 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;431187
Yes sir Chooglin i am happy to mention i am now I CAR certified along WITH JR. And both of us are now Porsche and Mercedes  factory certified TECHS and I CAR aluminum welding. AND what are YOU CERTIFIED IN JUST CURIOUS!!!

Tom, you're qualifications and knowledge are not the reason you seem to be involved in many, MANY disagreements on this forum over the past couple of years..... 
Things get lost in translation with regards to typing a conversation as opposed to hearing and speaking words. 

To be honest, you come off as quite pompous.  Whether or not this is your intent is anyone's guess. 
Regardless, I do hope you are in fact feeling better.  As much as people I've argued with over the internet have infuriated me, I still wish no ill will upon them.  I simply wish for them to see where I or someone else might be coming from.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: CougrrrFiveO on March 25, 2014, 01:04:01 PM
Quote from: EricCoolCats;431149
:popcorn:


:rollin:
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: CougrrrFiveO on March 25, 2014, 01:11:17 PM
Quote from: MY83T;431088
Its my first car, my car that my wife and i grew up in, the car i sowed my glorious days of a mis-spent youth in.  It will never leave my family, therefore the value to cost thing is basically irrellevant. Some things are not about money. Traditions, and memories are huge parts of this life we live, and i will not allow a freak of nature to undermine my life any more.  Too much ruined for my kids already.


:iagree:  :headbang:

That's great! Good luck with it! I completely understand the emotional attachment and how that outweighs what some others may consider "a worthwhile investment". I know I take heat from people from time to time about putting money into "that old Cougar", but I love it. This car is a direct connection between me and my dad. I really believe I will keep it as long as I live.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 25, 2014, 02:09:53 PM
Can we confirm that the vehicle is still....there? Yes? Okay then it's salvageable. :)
All a question of whether or not you are willing to *do what it takes*. Up to and including ripping evvvverything apart. Which, when compared to a 2000-something BMW with seven miles of wiring for one thing, becomes a walk in the park in a relative sense.

It'll be a long haul. But a vehicle with this type of attachment makes that worth it in the end. Rust? How can a panel be entirely useless if the rust holes in my 1938 Buick haven't gotten any worse in the 9 years I've had it on the road, nor has any paint bubbled or chipped off? Oh, right. The car hasn't even seen a drop of water from a garden hose for so much as a courteous washing. Plenty of wax and a California Duster will do 'er fine! Spot cleaning as needed. ed birds! Could they ever truly be 99.99999% factory perfect again? Probably not...but am I building a points-judged car? Are you?....Is this a 1-of-1 1929 Duesenberg or a Fox Body TBird?

Wiring? I don't know about compatibility of materials, but I'd love to think there's something out there you could submerge all of the wiring harnesses in to dissolve any corrosion, and then allow the harnesses to bake in the hot summer sun for days on end until all moisture has outgassed.

I'm an engineer-in-training, let's say, and I see this as a problem-solving exercise. Time to get creative. :) There's a way, it just needs to be discovered. And the way isn't necessarily throwing everything in the garbage and replacing it with new pieces.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: MY83T on March 25, 2014, 04:08:09 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;431193
Just for the record i do not want to come off as a PRICK. The reason i am passionate about cars is i want to pass on factual info that i believe is helpful. All my life i have been repairing and fixing messed up cars. I truly pass on info i think is helpful. I do admit i am thick headed in my beliefs. But i want you to know i post to help people not to break balls. Hopefully i am helping as i would never give out info that i thought would do otherwise. Thank you.


Tom, what i am about to say, i say respectfully and with good intentions.  Personally i have only had polite exchanges with you.  I would say the animosity that many people feel is based upon your bedside manor.  More often than not its the messenger and not the message that is the problem.  If i were a Neurologist and somebody with a common cold asked me what would make me feel better, i could answer that some aspirin and chicken soup would do the trick or i could go off on a lengthy tangent about human physiology and how things work and why, and it would be correct and accurate and nobody would care, because they only want to feel better.  Sometimes the simplest answers are the best and right answers.  I am a pro photographer, when i get a question from a large girl who says what can you do to make me look less heavy, i don't bombard her with all kinds of details about what i will do, i merely reassure her that i am sensitive to what she wants and will get her the results she needs.    I have a whole brain full of knowledge and details about a variety of subjects, by the same token i only share what i think will be useful, helpful and interesting to those who are tuning in at any given moment.  I don't need to be right, or have the last word even when i know i have the correct answer.  You can lead the horse to water as they say.......  Sometimes just prefacing your comments with "In my professional experience, i found this to work well"......as opposed to an absolute insistence that its your way or the highway.    All just food for thought.......please accept this as constructive and not throwing daggers.
Best,

David
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Thunder Chicken on March 25, 2014, 06:41:48 PM
Ahh, there's the gratuitous pic of a high dollar car that has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand... You never fail to disappoint, Tom. You're predictable, if nothing else.

Tom's biggest problem, and the root of virtually every issue he's had with people on this forum, is that he absolutely refuses to accept that others may have opinions. Worse, he can't accept that those opinions may differ from his, and *horrors* they might even be valid. In Tom World, Tom is the only one with any experience, and therefore is the only one who is qualified to offer advice. Case in point: He cannot accept the fact that I, an ASE certified master tech, former GM master tech, and current silver-level Honda tech (I've only been there seven months, give me a year and I'll be platinum), who has 21 years of experience working on cars that are basically dipped in salt 6 months of the year, and who lives within sight of the Atlantic Ocean and pretty much has salt running through his veins, might know a thing or two about the effects of salt on a vehicle. Nope, it's Tom's way or no way, folks. Other opinions simply cannot exist.

Now, if you really do want to leave the forum and go pester the LS1tech boys, please do so and leave us the hell alone. Show them your pictures - maybe they can make the correlation between a swamped T-Bird and a plastic hot rod with a belly button engine that you're trying to make here. Who knows, you might make both forums a better place - I can say with certainty that your absence would make this place better. I'd be more than happy to lock the door behind you...
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: My10-80 on March 26, 2014, 01:06:27 AM
Quote from: MY83T;431088
Its my first car, my car that my wife and i grew up in, the car i sowed my glorious days of a mis-spent youth in.  It will never leave my family,


David, I personally know what your feeling with regards to your Bird.    Our bird represents the first car my new wife and I (still married to) picked out together.  I have now owned that beauty for 26 of her 28 years and I certainly treat both of them like the special ladies that they both are.  I took both our kids home from the hospital for the first time in that car and now my kids are openly discussing in front of us which one is to get the car.  This car will never willingly leave my family.  I honestly don't know and hope I never do know what you are experiencing.  It truly is unfortunate that you even have to make a decision like this.  Follow your heart and no matter the decision you make it is yours to make.  V8Demon pointed out in a previous post that that was all that matters in the end.  So, no matter your decision, I will be silently cheering for you and your happy ending from the corner.  Good luck to you.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: MY83T on March 26, 2014, 01:24:18 AM
Quote from: My10-80;431242
David, I personally know what your feeling with regards to your Bird.    Our bird represents the first car my new wife and I (still married to) picked out together.  I have now owned that beauty for 26 of her 28 years and I certainly treat both of them like the special ladies that they both are.  I took both our kids home from the hospital for the first time in that car and now my kids are openly discussing in front of us which one is to get the car.  This car will never willingly leave my family.  I honestly don't know and hope I never do know what you are experiencing.  It truly is unfortunate that you even have to make a decision like this.  Follow your heart and no matter the decision you make it is yours to make.  V8Demon pointed out in a previous post that that was all that matters in the end.  So, no matter your decision, I will be silently cheering for you and your happy ending from the corner.  Good luck to you.
Thanks so much for the kind words and encouragement. I am glad others know and understand the meaning of iconic objects and symbols in our lives, and what they mean for a sense of history and memories.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Clayton on March 26, 2014, 07:44:38 PM
Drop a battery in her. If you get ome life its not a total loss.Its not a total loss either way youll never know til you try. Need a lot of rice. But i have no doubt it will fire up. Have faith. Ill keep my eyes peeled for wiring harnesses if ya need one. Now is the time to go all out and make it exactly what you want if you have to start from scratch. Look at Jerry's cat, when he started looking at it would give you tetb-hole.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: MY83T on April 18, 2014, 10:53:43 PM
Just thought i would share these shots of the salt crud at the air cleaner and carb intake on the Bird.  Crazy how high the water rose....
XX
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 18, 2014, 11:21:18 PM
Eww that sucks.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: 1wickedBird on April 18, 2014, 11:36:09 PM
Uhhh, wow that's corroded.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Haystack on April 19, 2014, 12:16:04 AM
Time for a efi h.o. swap....
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Lodemia on April 19, 2014, 08:09:54 AM
That'll buff right out! 

Seriously though, you might consider the inside of the engine at this point, and stick a scope down the plug hole before you try to start it.  I had a POS '68 skylark that the carburetor looked worse than that, got to all cleaned and running, but could never get the rings to seat against the pitted cylinder walls. 

Good luck.

- Geoff
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Thunder Chicken on April 19, 2014, 04:23:48 PM
Unfortunately your pistons probably look like that too. You will need an engine (and tranny, etc, as has been covered in other posts). How does the body look?
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: V8Demon on April 20, 2014, 08:11:37 AM
I has a sad.  You could always find a wrecked 87-93 stang and swap everything over in a way that looks factory.  I have an HO engine minus the intake sittingin my yard if you need it.  Its from an 86.  Forged flat tops.  I think I have an HO PCM in the basp00get too.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: MY83T on April 20, 2014, 08:48:37 AM
Quote from: V8Demon;432629
I has a sad.  You could always find a wrecked 87-93 stang and swap everything over in a way that looks factory.  I have an HO engine minus the intake sittingin my yard if you need it.  Its from an 86.  Forged flat tops.  I think I have an HO PCM in the basp00get too.

Thanks Paulie, i might consider that.  Let me know how much you would need......
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: birdman85 on April 20, 2014, 11:15:18 PM
I totally get what you are doing and why.  When you combine passion and memories for a vehicle you love and then something happens to it you tend to get a little emotional.  It happened to me and my original 85.  My wife and I dated in the car and we had it when we were married.  Got rid of it in 88 and always regretted it so years later I tracked it down...4 owners later.  My plan was to buy it back and restore it.  Unfortunately, she was in much worse condition than I imagined.  Nothing electrical worked, the paint was gone and various trim was missing.  The girl who owned it at the time told me it might be worth $500.  I offered her $1000 over the phone site unseen.  She would'nt sell it because she said while it didn't look like much and nothing on it worked, it got her back and forth to work every day and was very dependable and she couldn't replace it for $1000.  (Smart girl)  So, I made peace with the fact I would never get her back and my wife and I began the hunt for an 85 in good condition.  Found the one I have now which is exactly like my original and I couldn't be happier.  Long story short to offer you my advice:  I know your mind is made up but my advise would be make peace and say goodbye.  Spend your time and energy hunting for another 83 Heritage that has been well kept....may be hard to find but they are out there.  You'll save yourself a lot of time, pain and money in the long run and in time you'll be glad you did.  That said, I do wish you the very best in your quest to bring your baby back!!
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: MY83T on April 21, 2014, 08:50:06 PM
Quote from: birdman85;432671
I totally get what you are doing and why.  When you combine passion and memories for a vehicle you love and then something happens to it you tend to get a little emotional.  It happened to me and my original 85.  My wife and I dated in the car and we had it when we were married.  Got rid of it in 88 and always regretted it so years later I tracked it down...4 owners later.  My plan was to buy it back and restore it.  Unfortunately, she was in much worse condition than I imagined.  Nothing electrical worked, the paint was gone and various trim was missing.  The girl who owned it at the time told me it might be worth $500.  I offered her $1000 over the phone site unseen.  She would'nt sell it because she said while it didn't look like much and nothing on it worked, it got her back and forth to work every day and was very dependable and she couldn't replace it for $1000.  (Smart girl)  So, I made peace with the fact I would never get her back and my wife and I began the hunt for an 85 in good condition.  Found the one I have now which is exactly like my original and I couldn't be happier.  Long story short to offer you my advice:  I know your mind is made up but my advise would be make peace and say goodbye.  Spend your time and energy hunting for another 83 Heritage that has been well kept....may be hard to find but they are out there.  You'll save yourself a lot of time, pain and money in the long run and in time you'll be glad you did.  That said, I do wish you the very best in your quest to bring your baby back!!

Thanks for the kind comments and advice.  This is not an intellectual decision, and there is much to consider here.  I think once i am able to get the car into the shop, and some dis-assembly going to really see how deep into the car we would need to go, will sway me one way or the other.  Info is the key here, and i don't have enough in hand yet.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: Haystack on April 21, 2014, 09:25:53 PM
Let me know if you have a hard time finding.stuff. ill get it for you for cost + shipping.

there was a nice 83 cougar i just stole the doors from.

best of luck man.
Title: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED 1983 Thunderbird Heritage Update
Post by: MY83T on April 21, 2014, 09:31:50 PM
Quote from: Haystack;432709
Let me know if you have a hard time finding.stuff. ill get it for you for cost + shipping.

there was a nice 83 cougar i just stole the doors from.

best of luck man.


Thanks brother.....i will def ask if i need. Appreciate the kindness.