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Technical => Electrical Tech => Topic started by: jcassity on December 23, 2013, 11:57:57 AM

Title: Door Lock actuators ~re-inventing the wheel
Post by: jcassity on December 23, 2013, 11:57:57 AM
I am in the beginning stages of looking for a true solenoid actuator... doing a little reading, doing a little learning and such before hand.
Anyone wanna work on this with me? It really would "harden" our existing actuators and lifespan.

looking at one link below with various options.

considerations:
~must have ability to move all the mechanicals of the door locking system
~must fit in the area of the existing actuator
~must be 12v
~must be able to handle the force requried to pull or push
~must be Nema 3R rated or equivilant
~must be under 30$ each
~must be quality built and consideration to cost would waive the above target value.
~must not be made in china, preference not in any exact order>>=made in USA/Canada/Mexico/Germany
~~open to recommendations from Trinom being he has visiblity on good quality products on the other side of the world, his input is valuabe and trusted.


Given:
~mounting would be fabricted or dreamed up by the installer by attempting to use the existing actuator pivit bracket assembly.


Here is a link to a site i found today... sorta like a starter shopping guide
http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/catalogs/c133/P86.pdf

I would like to discuss pn 215141,,, has a pretty decent metal end that looks like it can accept a rod on its actuator nose.,, it is however 24v

PN 2177555 looks to be the 12v variety of the above, has a longer stroke and is physically a tad shorter.
Title: Door Lock actuators ~re-inventing the wheel
Post by: jcassity on January 04, 2014, 04:11:13 PM
Here are a couple of pictures of some door lock actuators I have taken apart

One shows the connector removed and how it integrates the DC motor brushes

The other photograph shows the actuator itself and how it is dependent on the three tiny BBs and the retainer and clip in order to function properly
Title: Door Lock actuators ~re-inventing the wheel
Post by: T-BirdX3 on January 04, 2014, 08:28:34 PM
Help me understand what the goal and purpose is?  I've personally never had any problems with the OEM actuators.
Title: Door Lock actuators ~re-inventing the wheel
Post by: jcassity on January 04, 2014, 09:48:03 PM
the goal is the same as in post 1,  replace the actuators with true solenoids instead of the DC motors.
Title: Door Lock actuators ~re-inventing the wheel
Post by: softtouch on January 05, 2014, 01:58:24 AM
Do you know if they make a solenoid that can be powered in both directions? Seems to me it would have to have two coils on the same armature. One to move it in the lock direction and the other to move it in the unlock direction.
 Usually they are powered in one direction and spring returned to the static position.
I suppose you could use two separate  solenoids that do not have a built-in spring return.
Title: Door Lock actuators ~re-inventing the wheel
Post by: jcassity on January 05, 2014, 08:56:57 AM
just flip the polarity
Title: Door Lock actuators ~re-inventing the wheel
Post by: softtouch on January 05, 2014, 01:05:32 PM
Quote from: jcassity;426783
just flip the polarity
Have you tried that?
Thought the armature tries to center itself in the flux field of the coil
rather than magnetic poles attracting or repelling.
Title: Door Lock actuators ~re-inventing the wheel
Post by: jcassity on January 05, 2014, 03:46:12 PM
It does,,,  until one ships to me ,, actually a couple, i wont be able to speculate where to put the Force spring to oppose the polarity switching concept.

i wanna keep this simple.
Title: Door Lock actuators ~re-inventing the wheel
Post by: jcassity on January 05, 2014, 04:56:30 PM
hmmm,,
looks like the product already exists.........................

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Relays-Contactors-Solenoids/Electromechanical-Solenoids/12-VDC-POWER-DOOR-LOCK-PUSH-PULL-SOLENOID-11-3346.axd
Title: Door Lock actuators ~re-inventing the wheel
Post by: jcassity on January 05, 2014, 05:34:34 PM
looks like these guys are out of ohio
http://www.ledex.com/linear-solenoids/sta-tublar-solenoids.html
Title: Door Lock actuators ~re-inventing the wheel
Post by: dragon574444 on January 05, 2014, 06:22:23 PM
That first one only has a travel of .865 inches, I don't think that's enough to fully lock and unlock our doors.
Title: Door Lock actuators ~re-inventing the wheel
Post by: softtouch on January 08, 2014, 01:10:24 PM
Quote from: jcassity;426820
hmmm,,
looks like the product already exists.........................

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Relays-Contactors-Solenoids/Electromechanical-Solenoids/12-VDC-POWER-DOOR-LOCK-PUSH-PULL-SOLENOID-11-3346.axd

Can't see how this one could be a solenoid with the coil perpendicular to the armature.
Probably a motor with a rack and pinion gear arrangement.
Good price though.
Title: Door Lock actuators ~re-inventing the wheel
Post by: jcassity on January 09, 2014, 09:56:27 AM
i couldnt find a spec sheet, ... customer service person was kinda "techy",, he said yup its a solenoid.

i was skeptical like you cause right off the bat it was just too skinny
Title: Door Lock actuators ~re-inventing the wheel
Post by: softtouch on January 09, 2014, 01:20:05 PM
Here is one that looks the same and they call it a motor.
http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Power-Door-Lock-Actuator/dp/B0043G5UM0
Title: Door Lock actuators ~re-inventing the wheel
Post by: Trinom on January 16, 2014, 02:10:30 PM
Quote from: jcassity;426126
~must not be made in china, preference not in any exact order>>=made in USA/Canada/Mexico/Germany
~~open to recommendations from Trinom being he has visiblity on good quality products on the other side of the world, his input is valuabe and trusted.
I think, that quality chinese products shouldn't be overlooked. Don't forget, that most of this stuff is made there and my experience is, that if you ignore the cheapest pieces, they are pretty good.

I'm going to look, which actuators are used in european cars and if they are somehow compatible with our old Ford actuators.
Title: Door Lock actuators ~re-inventing the wheel
Post by: jcassity on January 16, 2014, 10:17:47 PM
i understand that,,
but for an oem name plate design,,, Bosch would likely be the first pick but im open to options, especially in the solenoid family.
I have not placed an order yet.....
Title: Door Lock actuators ~re-inventing the wheel
Post by: Trinom on January 17, 2014, 12:10:20 PM
Bad news, guys. Old ford actuators have too long travel. Not a single one used in newer cars doesn't have such a long travel. I've god some Sierra/Scorpio actuators, but they have only half travel of the old US ford ones. I'm worried, that VW are too short too. Can you measure the effective rod travel between locked and unlocked position?
I'm going to look at some aftermarket actuators, if they have travel long enough. I will have to solve this problem after winter too. I have one spare old actuator and two dead pieces (died last year).

PS: I've found some brand new original actuators. They aren't the cheapest, but they are original.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-1994-Ford-Lincoln-Mercury-Power-Door-Lock-Actuator-Fits-1979-Mustang-Fox-/181105613906?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a2abc5c52&vxp=mtr
Title: Door Lock actuators ~re-inventing the wheel
Post by: jcassity on January 18, 2014, 01:16:03 AM
I will be picking up those measurements in a couple weeks,, perhaps next weekend.
i know the travel distance your speaking of and have thought out a work around.

the rod that connects to the actuator goes up the the door jam assembly which has an arm sticking out on it.

that arm has a hole drilled in it to accept the rod.

drill another hole on the door jam assembly arm closer to the center line of the radial swing,,, (inward towards the pivit point) and the length of trave required is greatly reduced.
the solenoid would have to have the pound of force to compensate though,,, and that increases amperage demand.