Technical => Suspension/Steering => Topic started by: STANG8U on November 29, 2013, 11:37:54 PM
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on November 29, 2013, 11:37:54 PM
Fox bird springs might be all the same hight I'm sure TC ones have different rates but I'm looking for the hight of the stock springs I want to compare them to some lowering springs I have laying around
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Beau on November 29, 2013, 11:58:49 PM
I can get the numbers you need in the AM, if someone else doesn't before then. I've also got a set of Sport springs if you want those measurements as well...
Although I think you're on the right track in the height being near equal, the TC units have a slightly higher rate than the 3.8 versions. I think Sport springs are probably nearly identical to the TC springs though.
Chuck W could probably recite from memory the exact data lol.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on November 30, 2013, 12:09:52 AM
Yea I know all the v8 v6 and 2.3 fox mustangs have different spring rates but are around the same length
I want to slam my bird but want stiffer than stock and cutting springs jacks up the rate
If I can get these mustang lowering springs to work with some new iso's I think it will look good and Handel a lot better
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Haystack on November 30, 2013, 10:28:30 AM
I like the look of sn-95 springs in the front. I've heard that they are prog ressive rate, but never looked into it.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Beau on November 30, 2013, 12:11:27 PM
I've got springs from a '97 GT in mine. It came down about an inch, inch and half or so, ride is great. I don't believe cutting coils is a good idea, for one, like you said it screws with the rate and creates a horrid ride.
I'd think some springs from a 2000-something Stang GT would be just what you're looking for. If you really want to get down and dirty, either Mach 1 or Bullitt springs. One lowers more than the other, but I'm having a brain fart and can't remember which one.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on November 30, 2013, 07:19:39 PM
Yea if I can't make these lowering springs work ill end up getting SN springs or somthin
I like to put cars in the weeds lol
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: vinnietbird on December 01, 2013, 12:26:41 AM
I like mine a bit lower, but, I also like it highly functional. I do not want to have to slow down to a near stop to take a speed bump.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on December 01, 2013, 11:29:45 PM
So dose anyone have any they can measure the hight ?
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: ianb on December 02, 2013, 04:33:58 PM
Subbed because im interested in the topic.. I unfortunately dont have any measurements but so far I do have lil experience with this stuff.
I at first cut a full coil off my stock t bird springs and saw that it was way to low to drive basically everywhere. I rolled my fenders a lil bit and was able to get out of the driveway lol. At that point I had heard that stock v8 SN95 springs up front would lower my car and give it some decent handling as well. So I tossed out my original cut stockies for stock sn95s. I was extremely disappointed in how high it sat. Can be seen here https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-IbNtuc1jnng/UjTyGeAy1OI/AAAAAAAAMfU/WIlabkbOrAE/w1078-h809-no/IMAGE_251.jpeg (http://"https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-IbNtuc1jnng/UjTyGeAy1OI/AAAAAAAAMfU/WIlabkbOrAE/w1078-h809-no/IMAGE_251.jpeg")
So I went and cut around 3/4 of a coil and ended up with a happy medium I guess. Its still a lil on the high side but not slammed enough to destroy my car on our py CT highways. I also put in new sway bar bushings, slightly used tokicos (Meant for a Fox Body), sway bar end links/bushings, and I didnt run any spring isolators.
Now I will say so far ill have both sides of the bushing mounts on the sway bar come loose and actually lost a bolt on both sides...so either I completely forgot to tighten up both sides which might be possible or the lowering may have affected it and I need to use shorter links??
On the highway when this car hits a bump it travels alot but doesnt continue bouncing..im not sure if its because maybe those slightly used shocks are more than slightly used or maybe they are okay and its just the fact that I cut the springs.
Once the spring hits im gonna try finding a set of lowering springs for a SN95 instead of this cut stock springs nonsense. I also heard that the fox springs are shorter than the SN95s so if you lower your turbo coupe id imagine youd be better of running Fox struts instead but maybe someone here has more knowledge on this.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on December 02, 2013, 05:30:24 PM
The lowering springs I have are out of a SN
I've seen menny pics of stock SN's in a bird I kinda want lower
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: ianb on December 02, 2013, 05:49:54 PM
Quote from: STANG8U;425136
The lowering springs I have are out of a SN
I've seen menny pics of stock SN's in a bird I kinda want lower
You and me both. I was wondering what would happen if we ran lowering springs meant for a sn95 ??
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on December 02, 2013, 06:09:16 PM
Well find out I just ordered isolators and need to get some tires for the ponys I picked up
Was kinda hoping someone had the hight of the stockers just for reference before I pull it apart
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: ianb on December 02, 2013, 06:30:16 PM
Quote from: STANG8U;425138
Well find out I just ordered isolators and need to get some tires for the ponys I picked up
Was kinda hoping someone had the hight of the stockers just for reference before I pull it apart
Wait what springs are you planning on running exactly with those isolators ? Also you know those isolators give u like an .50" extra lift. But at the same time cut down on noise.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on December 02, 2013, 08:52:06 PM
I ordered isolators incase it's to low lol
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on December 03, 2013, 12:48:13 AM
Just took a quick guess over what I know buildings mustangs over the meny years these springs should drop the bird around 2" give and take how I do it seeing how stock SN slings drop a bird
2" is what I'm looking for ........ I already have a truck lol
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: ianb on December 04, 2013, 04:05:43 PM
Quote from: STANG8U;425179
Just took a quick guess over what I know buildings mustangs over the meny years these springs should drop the bird around 2" give and take how I do it seeing how stock SN slings drop a bird
2" is what I'm looking for ........ I already have a truck lol
If it does work and drop it that much..im wondering if you need shorter sway bar end links and a bumpsteer kit?
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on December 04, 2013, 04:37:34 PM
Even if it was around 1 1/2 it would still need a bump steer and cc plates to make things right
And I've never had a problem with sway bars
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: ianb on December 04, 2013, 04:47:34 PM
Quote from: STANG8U;425244
Even if it was around 1 1/2 it would still need a bump steer and cc plates to make things right
And I've never had a problem with sway bars
No issues with sway bars? I am running into a issue where the sway bar mount bushings were loosening up. A few people told me that the sway bar might under too much tension and that running shorter links might fix it. I myself had CC plates on my car when I bought but it was at stock height :hick:.
I dont have a bump steer kit on mine because I wasnt sure if I needed it..im starting to 2nd guess that now thou lol
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on December 04, 2013, 05:27:13 PM
Yea no issues lol
And if your car is lowerd it need a bump steer kit
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Leeryan on December 05, 2013, 02:09:52 AM
I had -30mm eibachs on my coupe turbo and they made it awful to drive. I didn't change the shocks as i should have done.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on December 25, 2013, 12:21:15 AM
No traffic In my other thread so ill bump this one
The springs did what I thought they would ...... Slam it lol
That's what I wanted and I'm very pleased the ride is not very bad at all and handles way better so far no issues
Now I need rims again I went from cobras to bigs and littles to ten holes lol
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: 1BadBird on December 25, 2013, 10:14:35 AM
I like thhe stance Stang8U !
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on December 25, 2013, 01:57:02 PM
Thanks it almost looks like its on air bags lol
Big differance from a 4x4
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Aerocoupe on December 26, 2013, 09:41:51 AM
The tie-rods should be parallel with the ground or at least that is what I have always been told as a good starting point with regards to bump steer if you do not have the gauges and plates to properly dial in the bump steer kit. The sway bar ends should be parallel to the ground which is most likely going to require that you buy shorter bolts for the end links and shorten the spacer between the inner bushings. From what I have experienced anything that drops a Fox Body more than an inch from factory benefits from the CC plates.
Darren
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on December 26, 2013, 02:23:52 PM
It's slammed it needs all of that lol
1 thing at a time
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Beau on December 26, 2013, 04:39:24 PM
Mine's dropped around an inch, and I've got the toe adjusted as best I could using strings and careful eyeballing, with a tape measure thrown in for luck, and mine is....touchy...my tie rods are parallel though, so I'm guessing mine needs to spend a visit at the alignment place sometime. Much more pressing needs right now, however. A windshield being at the top of that rather lengthy list. I still do not wish to speak of the matter. Grrrrr.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on December 26, 2013, 05:15:00 PM
The tie rods should be even with the ground when you lower a car it points them up a bump steer kit will drop them back down
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: ianb on January 20, 2014, 09:34:56 AM
That looks pretty sick..how hard does it ride ? What struts did u run sn95s or Fox?
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on January 20, 2014, 11:46:41 AM
Stock struts and shocks and surprisingly it rides good with the progressive springs
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: ianb on January 20, 2014, 12:27:04 PM
Does that run into any issues where the strut bottoms out before the spring fully compresses ? With the tall stock PRCS I always thought that would cause a issue with a lowered tbird.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on January 20, 2014, 01:49:18 PM
I have not had any issues ....... Guess I'm lucky lol
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: EFFalcon on January 20, 2014, 04:25:44 PM
Can you get shorter struts to suit our cars?
i'm bottoming out the stock struts, and its not even stupid low.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: ianb on January 20, 2014, 04:48:29 PM
Quote from: EFFalcon;427654
Can you get shorter struts to suit our cars?
i'm bottoming out the stock struts, and its not even stupid low.
I dont think anyone makes t bird struts that are shorter. You just have to figure out what car has the same bolt pattern that will fit and be shorter. From what i've read the fox body ones are the shortest and even some SN-95 guys run them when they drop their cars. Seen here http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/sn95-cobras-24/678900-foxbody-shocks-struts-lowered-sn95.html
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: EFFalcon on January 20, 2014, 06:37:11 PM
Yeah i could only find similar information. only longer (sn95) no shorter ones :/
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: bodyman on January 20, 2014, 07:05:16 PM
I am no expert on this, but if I remember my conversation with Jack at MM the longest struts are the thunderbird struts, the SN 95 struts are shorter, and the fox struts are the shortest. I have a set of factory t bird struts and some koni sn95 struts I can measure later and will post up what I find.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: EFFalcon on January 20, 2014, 08:32:57 PM
That'd be great.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: bodyman on January 20, 2014, 09:13:57 PM
Ok, to the best of my knowledge the crusty looking strut is the original from my 85 turbo coupe, the Koni is a 8741-1401 sport 94-04 mustang from MM. They are very similar at the top end of the strut, the extra length is below the spindle mounting holes. These measurements are from the center of the lower spindle mounting hole to the shoulder (where the green tape is). I wish I had a factory sn95 and fox mustang strut to compare them to. Measurements are to the closest 1/8".
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on January 20, 2014, 10:23:35 PM
Good info
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: ianb on January 21, 2014, 12:14:04 PM
Quote from: bodyman;427673
Ok, to the best of my knowledge the crusty looking strut is the original from my 85 turbo coupe, the Koni is a 8741-1401 sport 94-04 mustang from MM. They are very similar at the top end of the strut, the extra length is below the spindle mounting holes. These measurements are from the center of the lower spindle mounting hole to the shoulder (where the green tape is). I wish I had a factory sn95 and fox mustang strut to compare them to. Measurements are to the closest 1/8".
Awesome info to know dumb question are those PRC's? Did prcs even come on 85's lol? Either way its good know that they are nearly identical. Now the final question in a lowered situation what is better SN or Fox for me that is the million dollar question.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Beau on January 21, 2014, 12:37:53 PM
PRC was only on the '87-8 cars.
Unless you put the subframe on the pavement, I wouldn't consider Fox struts. I've got a spring/strut setup from an SN95 up front on mine, with Fox shocks and Chuck's adapters out back, with rear springs also the SN95 parts. Works great, rides very good, now that I've got the rear sorted out, could be a bit lower though. My springs are from a '97 GT car, some guys, Vinnie I think, has the springs from a bit newer mustang and has a bit more drop. So that's possible too. I'd like more drop in mine, but I'm not going to change the fronts again any time soon..
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on January 21, 2014, 12:40:34 PM
Prc's were a 87-88 thing
^^ you beat me to it lol
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: ianb on January 21, 2014, 01:02:02 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;427707
PRC was only on the '87-8 cars.
Unless you put the subframe on the pavement, I wouldn't consider Fox struts. I've got a spring/strut setup from an SN95 up front on mine, with Fox shocks and Chuck's adapters out back, with rear springs also the SN95 parts. Works great, rides very good, now that I've got the rear sorted out, could be a bit lower though. My springs are from a '97 GT car, some guys, Vinnie I think, has the springs from a bit newer mustang and has a bit more drop. So that's possible too. I'd like more drop in mine, but I'm not going to change the fronts again any time soon..
What do the Chuck adapters do again? Ive heard of them but didnt know the purpose?
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: STANG8U on January 21, 2014, 01:18:40 PM
So you can run fox shocks
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: EFFalcon on January 21, 2014, 05:44:34 PM
I want the subframe on the ground lol :P
looks like shorter struts are out :/
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Ramos617 on January 21, 2014, 06:51:29 PM
I've been reading thread after thread and what I got is that fox struts are 1" shorter than sn95 struts and should be used for cars lowered at least 1.5".
I'm planning on running fox shocks and struts and lowering my car around 1.5-2.5"
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: EFFalcon on January 21, 2014, 09:02:38 PM
when you say 'fox struts' i assume that covers those fitted OEM to a tbird?
Tbird struts arn't different to mustangs are they?
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: bodyman on January 21, 2014, 09:33:42 PM
"fox struts" are mustang struts up to 1993, after that they are SN95. The fox tbirds/cougars are more comparable in deminsions to the SN95 suspensions than the fox mustangs. So the fox mustangs struts are shorter than the SN95 and our fox tbird/cougars.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Beau on January 21, 2014, 10:56:46 PM
Keep in mind too, that if you swap parts and use Fox struts, you'll have less travel. Good for a track car, not so good for a daily, unless you absolutely want it.
My setup is pretty stiff, but I also have Energy Suspension poly in just about every place they have a product for...it definitely brings more feel into the steering wheel, but also more noise and roughness, in regards to ride.
With all that in place, I quickly found that the old dried up tires that were on there were suddenly the weak link. So I spiked a sheet of plywood into the ground, and did a burnout.
With the Bullitts and Nitto tires that are on now, I dare not spin 'em.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: EFFalcon on January 21, 2014, 11:03:43 PM
Thanks for clarifying.
85 extended 20.5" 85 comp 13.875" travel = 6.625"
Koni ext 20.625" Koni comp 14.5" travel = 6.125"
QA1 HS601S - Fox Mustang Front Struts Ext: 19.31 Comp: 13.07
Seems like i should chase down some Fox Mustang ones :)
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Ramos617 on January 22, 2014, 04:37:21 AM
Yea I was talking about fox mustang struts and I do understand the will limit travel. Judging from EFFalcons's data, fox struts are just what I needed.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: bodyman on January 22, 2014, 11:23:56 AM
Quote
EFFalcon
Thanks for clarifying.
85 extended 20.5" 85 comp 13.875" travel = 6.625"
Koni ext 20.625" Koni comp 14.5" travel = 6.125"
QA1 HS601S - Fox Mustang Front Struts Ext: 19.31 Comp: 13.07
Seems like i should chase down some Fox Mustang ones
Did you measure the fox mustang struts? I have no idea if my measurements are taken where they would be comparable to any advertised measurements. I took them for comparison to one another where it was easy to do so. Just don't want anyone to get crossed up in measurements that are not comparable.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: EFFalcon on January 22, 2014, 04:43:24 PM
actually good point bodyman, its possible those measurements aren't comparable.
i don't know how they measure theirs. the SN95 numbers are very similar, but who knows given different brands etc.
HS601S Front (Mustang '79-'93) 13.07 19.31 1979-1993 Mustangs with SN95 spindles, order part #HS603S HS603S Front (Mustang '94-'04 incl. Cobra) 14.63 20.87 N/A
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: ianb on January 23, 2014, 11:59:38 AM
Can you actually damage stuff from running the shorter (fox) struts/shocks on a lowered car? Or would it just ride harsher?
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Ramos617 on January 24, 2014, 12:59:04 AM
I don't think they will damage anything as long as your alignment, camber/caster stays in check but I could be wrong. I just finished installing fox struts and shocks (w/chuck adapters) and my car handles amazing compared to the stock prc stuff I also installed 96 gt vert springs on the rear and cut exactly 5/8 of a coil off the stock TC front springs heres some pics so you guys get an idea of the look, and this is with 2 amps and 2 10" subs in a heavy box in the trunk (http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg74/nukkah617/T-Bird/IMAG0369_zpse50607ac.jpg) (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/nukkah617/media/T-Bird/IMAG0369_zpse50607ac.jpg.html) (http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg74/nukkah617/T-Bird/IMAG0368_zpsa8aa38c0.jpg) (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/nukkah617/media/T-Bird/IMAG0368_zpsa8aa38c0.jpg.html)
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: ISTLCRUZ on January 24, 2014, 05:26:42 AM
Great lookin ride ! Like the stance..Well done.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: ianb on January 24, 2014, 03:58:21 PM
Sorry gotta ask..what would be the advantage over running fox vs sn95 if they both fit fine? I can see the extra length on the SN95s being good for maybe if you ever needed to go off roading and needed the extra wheel travel lol..Unless im thinking about the travel thing the wrong way
Oh yeah im looking around for a set of springs to buy..looking for SN95 lowering springs. Im told that progressive is the way to go for a decent ride..anyone out there have a suggestion on what set to get??
(http://i.imgur.com/LqiHbJP.gif)
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: BlackTHUNDA on January 24, 2014, 09:38:32 PM
Where can I find some of those chuck adapters?
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Aerocoupe on January 24, 2014, 10:10:40 PM
From Chuck W...you know the guy that started this site. In all seriousness Chuck W makes and sells them.
Darren
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Aerocoupe on January 24, 2014, 10:16:58 PM
To clarify, the SN95 struts are about 1" longer in their compressed height. Other than that there is not much physical difference. If your car is stock height or mildly lowered the SN95 struts are what you want to go with. If your car has more than a mild drop say 2"+ then go with the Fox struts.
The rear shocks are different in the fact that the SN95 units have internal bump stops and the Fox units do not. This is why they are typically used with coil overs.
Darren
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: ianb on January 27, 2014, 09:52:40 AM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;427863
To clarify, the SN95 struts are about 1" longer in their compressed height. Other than that there is not much physical difference. If your car is stock height or mildly lowered the SN95 struts are what you want to go with. If your car has more than a mild drop say 2"+ then go with the Fox struts.
The rear shocks are different in the fact that the SN95 units have internal bump stops and the Fox units do not. This is why they are typically used with coil overs.
Darren
This is great info didnt know the SN95s had internal bumpstops. My Bird isnt slammed but its around 1 1/2 maybe 3/4 drop.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: EFFalcon on January 27, 2014, 04:38:06 PM
I just want to get the front of mine down a little more to match the rear. Its currently bottoming out the struts.
(http://i.imgur.com/IpSkDgGl.jpg)
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Beau on January 27, 2014, 05:08:06 PM
How the hell do you not have a big hole sed into the gas tank? LOL
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: EFFalcon on January 27, 2014, 05:40:30 PM
Air bags :)
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Ramos617 on January 27, 2014, 06:01:25 PM
Quote from: EFFalcon;428011
I just want to get the front of mine down a little more to match the rear. Its currently bottoming out the struts.
(http://i.imgur.com/IpSkDgGl.jpg)
That is sick Once you get the front end down, it'll look REALLY good
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: ianb on March 10, 2014, 10:20:11 AM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;427862
From Chuck W...you know the guy that started this site. In all seriousness Chuck W makes and sells them.
Darren
Im pretty newish here...does Chuck W have a site or store on here?
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Aerocoupe on March 10, 2014, 10:29:31 AM
I know you are new to the site but the search function is your friend. Search for Chuck W in any thread, click on his user name, and then click on "Visit Webpage".
http://www.turbochuck.com/
Darren
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Chuck W on March 10, 2014, 11:53:52 AM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;427862
From Chuck W...you know the guy that started this site. In all seriousness Chuck W makes and sells them.
Darren
Looks like I may have to do up a GB on some adapters.
:hick: Also, This isn't my website. ;)
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: ianb on March 10, 2014, 12:42:55 PM
Chuck you still selling those rear shock adapters? Didn't see them on the website..
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Chuck W on March 10, 2014, 02:04:42 PM
Quote from: Chuck W;430342
Looks like I may have to do up a GB on some adapters.
:hick: Also, This isn't my website. ;)
Quote from: ianb;430345
Chuck you still selling those rear shock adapters? Didn't see them on the website..
They never were.
I'm undecided on doing more. I hate welding them up, and I hate sitting on them for over a year after I weld them up.
IF I do any more, it'll be in a group buy format.
Title: Turbo coupe spring hight
Post by: Haystack on March 10, 2014, 02:24:33 PM
I'm trying to decide between chuck mounts and a motor plate right now on the tbird