Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 10, 2013, 07:23:09 AM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 10, 2013, 07:23:09 AM
This year I've put 2 oil pressure senders on already, and I had my indicated oil pressure drop to nothing last light after a 3 to 4 second WOT sprint. I don't have any lifter noise, but I do have a faint hint of the rattle noise you'd expect from loose rods. I'm going to bring a sending unit home from work today and maybe a manual oil pressure gauge to test with. Anybody think it's something else? I had a friend with a 333 blow his lifter/cam oiling plug out (back of the valley near the rear sealing rail) but he immediately had lifter noise. I just don't want to have to tear down. My engine had 120k last year before I put it in, but I can't think of anything that would cause a sudden pressure loss without being accompanied by audible evidence of catastrophe. Thoughts?
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: jcassity on October 10, 2013, 09:59:05 AM
Post by: jcassity on October 10, 2013, 09:59:05 AM
your doing what i would,, and i agree with what you said...
but you may want to install a fitting that keeps the sender that reports to the dash, and..... install the manual gauge.
this way when your dash says one thing, you have the manual gauge to compare to.
almost restorted to this but found my issue.
the long tube oil sender adaptor could be drilled / tapped i suppose so its provisioned for both items.. its an easy work around to monitor things for a while.
if you see the dash say low but your manual gauge says good, then you know right off the bat its cluster / wiring related.
btw, you should do that high wattage resistor mod to your cluster anyway,,, that resistor gets very hot. .. place a piece of soap stone underneath it.... i have a link to the thread in my diy section. if you end up with the cluster as the issue then you might as well do this mod to.
but you may want to install a fitting that keeps the sender that reports to the dash, and..... install the manual gauge.
this way when your dash says one thing, you have the manual gauge to compare to.
almost restorted to this but found my issue.
the long tube oil sender adaptor could be drilled / tapped i suppose so its provisioned for both items.. its an easy work around to monitor things for a while.
if you see the dash say low but your manual gauge says good, then you know right off the bat its cluster / wiring related.
btw, you should do that high wattage resistor mod to your cluster anyway,,, that resistor gets very hot. .. place a piece of soap stone underneath it.... i have a link to the thread in my diy section. if you end up with the cluster as the issue then you might as well do this mod to.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: jcassity on October 10, 2013, 10:14:32 AM
Post by: jcassity on October 10, 2013, 10:14:32 AM
i have no idea if you took the time to take the oil pan off and "bend up" slightly the oil sump. I was warned about the clearnace of the sump to the bottom of the pan and the fact the oil pump could scavage or empty itself out because the sump is clearing the bottom of the pan with very little clearance. this really makes no sense to me but my boy and I just ever so slightly bend the tube so the profile of the screen is up abot another 1/8'' or so.
anther thing, if you didnt take the pan of that explorer motor, you may not know for sure if the screen as enough clogging to introduce scavaging.
I think once upon a time i tried to fish in a spray tube like the little red ones that come on carb cleaner and attemped to guesstimate and spray off the sump screen using the oil fill plug hole as my entry point.
if it is the screen partially clogged,,,
you may want to risk taking out the dizzy,, drain half your oil, put in a could qts of paint thinner or MEK, run your oil pump shaft with a drill to prime / wash stuff, perhaps even do this with the oil sender out so the galleys get cleaned, then run your drill in reverse to to push thing back out into the pan,,,,
then,,
fill drain all the old stuff and add new, run your drill to reprime the motor then put the dizzy back in and monitor things for a while.
anther thing, if you didnt take the pan of that explorer motor, you may not know for sure if the screen as enough clogging to introduce scavaging.
I think once upon a time i tried to fish in a spray tube like the little red ones that come on carb cleaner and attemped to guesstimate and spray off the sump screen using the oil fill plug hole as my entry point.
if it is the screen partially clogged,,,
you may want to risk taking out the dizzy,, drain half your oil, put in a could qts of paint thinner or MEK, run your oil pump shaft with a drill to prime / wash stuff, perhaps even do this with the oil sender out so the galleys get cleaned, then run your drill in reverse to to push thing back out into the pan,,,,
then,,
fill drain all the old stuff and add new, run your drill to reprime the motor then put the dizzy back in and monitor things for a while.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: jcassity on October 10, 2013, 10:18:49 AM
Post by: jcassity on October 10, 2013, 10:18:49 AM
siri does me no justice when im speaking my messages... some of my posts lately look retarded! lol
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 10, 2013, 10:58:15 AM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 10, 2013, 10:58:15 AM
I had the Explorer motor open last when I installed a Ford Racing standard oil pump, non-hardened shaft and Fox pickup and new Fox oil pan (during the Fox chassis conversion). That was more than a year ago. I've got 3/8" clearance to the pan bottom, I think that should be enough.
I would suspect the cluster resistor if the problem went away after sitting over night, but this unhappiness was still there this morning. I think I may get an electronic oil pressure gauge for my clock mount and swap the stock sender for the autometer one, then leave the wire for the cluster oil press gauge grounded somewhere. I don't want to listen to that ed chime.
I would suspect the cluster resistor if the problem went away after sitting over night, but this unhappiness was still there this morning. I think I may get an electronic oil pressure gauge for my clock mount and swap the stock sender for the autometer one, then leave the wire for the cluster oil press gauge grounded somewhere. I don't want to listen to that ed chime.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: CoogarXR on October 10, 2013, 01:06:24 PM
Post by: CoogarXR on October 10, 2013, 01:06:24 PM
When I had my 87 with it's original 5.0, the oil pressure did drop enough to beep all the time with no engine noise. I installed a manual gage in the little panel to the lower-right of the steering wheel (where the turbocoupes have the premium/ride switches). The manual gage showed like 12psi when cold, and about 4psi when warm. It ran fine though. I eventually replaced the motor with a fresh HO, then it read 50-70psi. Low oil pressure is common on windsor blocks, especially high-mileage ones (I don't know how old yours is).
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 10, 2013, 01:53:59 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 10, 2013, 01:53:59 PM
Confirmed. No oil pressure.
Will proceed with standard base engine diagnostics. Currently I am planning to reinstall the manual gauge, pull the distributor and visually verify pump shaft. If it's still there and intact, I'll spin the pump and observe pressure. Depending how the gauge reads, I'll pull the intake next and verify the cam and lifter oil feed channel plug. If I'm still good at that point, I'll have to drag it to the shop and pull the engine.
There are no external leaks, BTW.
Will proceed with standard base engine diagnostics. Currently I am planning to reinstall the manual gauge, pull the distributor and visually verify pump shaft. If it's still there and intact, I'll spin the pump and observe pressure. Depending how the gauge reads, I'll pull the intake next and verify the cam and lifter oil feed channel plug. If I'm still good at that point, I'll have to drag it to the shop and pull the engine.
There are no external leaks, BTW.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 10, 2013, 05:30:54 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 10, 2013, 05:30:54 PM
Ok, primary diagnostic is complete. This pic isn't of MY pump shaft because I couldn't get mine out through the dist hole, but here's what's up.
So, we pull the engine, flip it over and go after the oil pump which will no doubt be jammed/siezed or otherwise FUBAR'd. I'll have to get the pump apart to find out why this happened. As far as I know, the Ford Racing standard oil pump is a high quality unit, but whatever. I'll be switching to a hardened drive, recommendations for a standard pressure/volume pump?
So, we pull the engine, flip it over and go after the oil pump which will no doubt be jammed/siezed or otherwise FUBAR'd. I'll have to get the pump apart to find out why this happened. As far as I know, the Ford Racing standard oil pump is a high quality unit, but whatever. I'll be switching to a hardened drive, recommendations for a standard pressure/volume pump?
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: jandmmustangs on October 10, 2013, 07:37:38 PM
Post by: jandmmustangs on October 10, 2013, 07:37:38 PM
Melling 68
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: jcassity on October 12, 2013, 10:36:35 AM
Post by: jcassity on October 12, 2013, 10:36:35 AM
i have a recommendation,,
home make a gasket that matches the exterior profile of the housing that holds the gears on the oil pump.
i have no clue why it bugs me but evey time (and this isnt very often but...) every time i take a cover off an oil pump, there are signs of the gears rubbing the cover and you have to wonder if its not because of the clearances being too tight.
i make a simple gasket around the exterior profile of the pump then assemble to add about .020 more gear to cover clearance.
your not actually saying your pump shaft is broken,, your saying the pump is jammed but the pic shows a broke shaft.
"if the clip were slipped up too high" on the pump shaft, that would certanly put downward force on the drive gear and cause it to be under constant friction.
can you remember if you were just piddling around moved it a little?
what you want is to have the clip positioned in such a manner that when installed, it does not rub the block,, its just a part that says put, it should have at least enough gap betweent he clip and the block such that when the distributor is extracted, the shaft iteself is still seated in the hexagon shape of the oil pump.
with no dissy installed, the shaft can have at least 1/4 inch or less up and down motion.
when i put my sons oil pump in,, i used the shaft from teh explorer motor and i noticed that when i snuged down the pump mounting bolts, the pump drive shaft clip was all the way up againt the block. i took stuff out again and lowered the clip a little bit and that solve the bind.
im pretty sure it would have eventually loosened up ,, Maybe? but doing what i did made darn sure it wastn an issue.
home make a gasket that matches the exterior profile of the housing that holds the gears on the oil pump.
i have no clue why it bugs me but evey time (and this isnt very often but...) every time i take a cover off an oil pump, there are signs of the gears rubbing the cover and you have to wonder if its not because of the clearances being too tight.
i make a simple gasket around the exterior profile of the pump then assemble to add about .020 more gear to cover clearance.
your not actually saying your pump shaft is broken,, your saying the pump is jammed but the pic shows a broke shaft.
"if the clip were slipped up too high" on the pump shaft, that would certanly put downward force on the drive gear and cause it to be under constant friction.
can you remember if you were just piddling around moved it a little?
what you want is to have the clip positioned in such a manner that when installed, it does not rub the block,, its just a part that says put, it should have at least enough gap betweent he clip and the block such that when the distributor is extracted, the shaft iteself is still seated in the hexagon shape of the oil pump.
with no dissy installed, the shaft can have at least 1/4 inch or less up and down motion.
when i put my sons oil pump in,, i used the shaft from teh explorer motor and i noticed that when i snuged down the pump mounting bolts, the pump drive shaft clip was all the way up againt the block. i took stuff out again and lowered the clip a little bit and that solve the bind.
im pretty sure it would have eventually loosened up ,, Maybe? but doing what i did made darn sure it wastn an issue.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: jcassity on October 12, 2013, 10:37:05 AM
Post by: jcassity on October 12, 2013, 10:37:05 AM
i have a recommendation,,
home make a gasket that matches the exterior profile of the housing that holds the gears on the oil pump.
i have no clue why it bugs me but evey time (and this isnt very often but...) every time i take a cover off an oil pump, there are signs of the gears rubbing the cover and you have to wonder if its not because of the clearances being too tight.
i make a simple gasket around the exterior profile of the pump then assemble to add about .020 more gear to cover clearance.
your not actually saying your pump shaft is broken,, your saying the pump is jammed but the pic shows a broke shaft.
"if the clip were slipped up too high" on the pump shaft, that would certanly put downward force on the drive gear and cause it to be under constant friction.
can you remember if you were just piddling around moved it a little?
what you want is to have the clip positioned in such a manner that when installed, it does not rub the block,, its just a part that says put, it should have at least enough gap betweent he clip and the block such that when the distributor is extracted, the shaft iteself is still seated in the hexagon shape of the oil pump.
with no dissy installed, the shaft can have at least 1/4 inch or less up and down motion.
when i put my sons oil pump in,, i used the shaft from teh explorer motor and i noticed that when i snuged down the pump mounting bolts, the pump drive shaft clip was all the way up againt the block. i took stuff out again and lowered the clip a little bit and that solve the bind.
im pretty sure it would have eventually loosened up ,, Maybe? but doing what i did made darn sure it wastn an issue.
home make a gasket that matches the exterior profile of the housing that holds the gears on the oil pump.
i have no clue why it bugs me but evey time (and this isnt very often but...) every time i take a cover off an oil pump, there are signs of the gears rubbing the cover and you have to wonder if its not because of the clearances being too tight.
i make a simple gasket around the exterior profile of the pump then assemble to add about .020 more gear to cover clearance.
your not actually saying your pump shaft is broken,, your saying the pump is jammed but the pic shows a broke shaft.
"if the clip were slipped up too high" on the pump shaft, that would certanly put downward force on the drive gear and cause it to be under constant friction.
can you remember if you were just piddling around moved it a little?
what you want is to have the clip positioned in such a manner that when installed, it does not rub the block,, its just a part that says put, it should have at least enough gap betweent he clip and the block such that when the distributor is extracted, the shaft iteself is still seated in the hexagon shape of the oil pump.
with no dissy installed, the shaft can have at least 1/4 inch or less up and down motion.
when i put my sons oil pump in,, i used the shaft from teh explorer motor and i noticed that when i snuged down the pump mounting bolts, the pump drive shaft clip was all the way up againt the block. i took stuff out again and lowered the clip a little bit and that solve the bind.
im pretty sure it would have eventually loosened up ,, Maybe? but doing what i did made darn sure it wastn an issue.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 12, 2013, 11:15:35 AM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 12, 2013, 11:15:35 AM
The pic isn't mine. Mine is still in the engine, broke off right above the pump. I didn't have a clip on mine, when I pulled the distributor the long Parr of the broken shaft fell. Next week when I pull it I'll put up pics.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 12, 2013, 03:47:10 PM
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 12, 2013, 03:47:10 PM
Jay the gear to cover clearance is .005-.008 If you install a gasket under the cover you are making a very bad mistake. The reason there is no gasket is because it can blow out. To my knowledge i do not know any oil pump that i can say has a gasket. Adding .020 is extremely Dangerous and gasket blow out is going to happen if you do this. Those gears are designed to rub on the cover that is how it works. Normally i set the cover clearance to .003 - .005 . Anything more can cause the pump to loose PRIME. DO NOT DO THAT JAY. Trust me on this!!
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 12, 2013, 05:42:37 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 12, 2013, 05:42:37 PM
Melling 10687 and ARP 154-7904. That's what I've settled on. The 10687 has adjustable output pressure, which I plan to increase to somewhere between the pressure of the M68 pump and that of the M68hv. It also has gear shafts that are supported into the cover (which itself is thicker to reduce deflection).
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: jcassity on October 12, 2013, 07:03:13 PM
Post by: jcassity on October 12, 2013, 07:03:13 PM
Interesting Tom
The paper I use is called fish paper and I think it measures out at 20,000 but when you tighten down the bolts I'm sure it smashes down
You learn something new every day but lucky for us his oil pressure is just fine for now
The paper I use is called fish paper and I think it measures out at 20,000 but when you tighten down the bolts I'm sure it smashes down
You learn something new every day but lucky for us his oil pressure is just fine for now
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 12, 2013, 07:57:46 PM
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 12, 2013, 07:57:46 PM
Jay i have been blue printing pumps for many years now. Here is a tip for you. Gear end play is around .004 on just about every pump on the planet. Increasing the end play is very bad. I do not want to scare you but when i build pumps for any engine i always save the old plate from the old pump. And then i use Plasti gauge to see what the gear to plate clearance is. Same as checking a rod bearing clearance. Once i get the clearance i want by shaving down the case i use the old plate along with the new one with longer bolts. This prevents the plate from curling and messing up the pump seal. But you said you shimmed the plate with gasket material. Buddy that is big time bad!! I do a lot of Buick GN and GNX cars and those pumps have a gasket. reason being the pump is built in to the front cover and it is external. That pump comes with several thickness gaskets to get the required .003 clearance. We use steel shims or gaskets in stead of normal paper or velemoid gasket material
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: jcassity on October 12, 2013, 09:49:39 PM
Post by: jcassity on October 12, 2013, 09:49:39 PM
i just measured my fish paper,, its .014 thick,,, hi-jack over
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 13, 2013, 12:37:20 AM
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 13, 2013, 12:37:20 AM
Not sure what you mean by high-jack over? What is the actual end play of the driven gears? If more than .003 - .005 it is out of speck!
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: jcassity on October 13, 2013, 09:42:00 AM
Post by: jcassity on October 13, 2013, 09:42:00 AM
this is foe's thread, not mine
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 13, 2013, 10:28:55 AM
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 13, 2013, 10:28:55 AM
Thanks i did not understand. You know i am OLD!!
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 18, 2013, 06:58:24 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 18, 2013, 06:58:24 PM
Ok, engine's out, and here's whats up.
The remains of the pump shaft
The pump housing. In the lower half of the pic, you can see a ding in the aluminum, which is actually raised into the cavity. Also, whatever did this also left a good deal of scoring in the housing in the upper section of the pic.
The outer gerotor. Whatever caused the damage to the casing struck here, too. the damage lines up on both. Unlike the housing, this is steel. The two points of damage will not pass one another.
The remains of the pump shaft
The pump housing. In the lower half of the pic, you can see a ding in the aluminum, which is actually raised into the cavity. Also, whatever did this also left a good deal of scoring in the housing in the upper section of the pic.
The outer gerotor. Whatever caused the damage to the casing struck here, too. the damage lines up on both. Unlike the housing, this is steel. The two points of damage will not pass one another.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 18, 2013, 07:00:43 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 18, 2013, 07:00:43 PM
Tomorrow or Monday, I'll pull caps and check oil clearance. Any theories? I can't explain how anything got past the pickup screen. I inspected it, and it's perfectly intact. I'm cautiously optimistic.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: jandmmustangs on October 18, 2013, 07:26:00 PM
Post by: jandmmustangs on October 18, 2013, 07:26:00 PM
Possibly an internal failure, poor quality control. I had a 95 5.0's oil pump poop the bed with only 33,000 on it
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 19, 2013, 10:31:43 AM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 19, 2013, 10:31:43 AM
Found out what got in the pump, and it puts her up for the winter. It's rebuild time. I'm really really bummed about it, but I've decided to look at it as an opportunity.
Busted up piston skirt. Busted by the oil pump drive I thought was safe in the bottom of the pan. Fail.
Still, if I HAVE to buy pistons, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to buy some -3cc domed KB's. If I HAVE to have the heads off, I get a chance to port the GT40 heads and intake. If I HAVE to have the crank out, I might as well have it polished and precision balanced with those KB pistons, you get the idea. Anybody have a TFS stage 1 cam they're looking to get rid of?
Busted up piston skirt. Busted by the oil pump drive I thought was safe in the bottom of the pan. Fail.
Still, if I HAVE to buy pistons, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to buy some -3cc domed KB's. If I HAVE to have the heads off, I get a chance to port the GT40 heads and intake. If I HAVE to have the crank out, I might as well have it polished and precision balanced with those KB pistons, you get the idea. Anybody have a TFS stage 1 cam they're looking to get rid of?
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: jcassity on October 20, 2013, 10:18:28 AM
Post by: jcassity on October 20, 2013, 10:18:28 AM
well , there isnt any "real knowing" how this happened,, you can speculate all day long.
did you find the skirt part(s)? does it/they match up to the piston?
like you, id be thinking the whole engine is contaminated, you might have caught it in time but i agree warrants a tear down.
did you find the skirt part(s)? does it/they match up to the piston?
like you, id be thinking the whole engine is contaminated, you might have caught it in time but i agree warrants a tear down.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: jcassity on October 20, 2013, 10:19:45 AM
Post by: jcassity on October 20, 2013, 10:19:45 AM
let us know the pn to the oil pan gasket,,,,
i love the oem explorer gaskets and that on you show.
i love the oem explorer gaskets and that on you show.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 20, 2013, 10:43:22 AM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 20, 2013, 10:43:22 AM
I found several large pieces, but also many small pieces that could pass through the screen. I took the pan off on the stand full, and poured it through a fine mesh filter to find all the particulates. There's no telling where any others might be,
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: Clayton on October 20, 2013, 11:06:36 AM
Post by: Clayton on October 20, 2013, 11:06:36 AM
Hopefully id didnt marr up the cylinder wall. Sucks man. Hope everything checks out alright
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 20, 2013, 01:19:35 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 20, 2013, 01:19:35 PM
The cylinder wall on no.2 is scored up and down. Looks like I may end up with a 306. Not necessarily a bad thing.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: jcassity on October 20, 2013, 07:31:50 PM
Post by: jcassity on October 20, 2013, 07:31:50 PM
10 over may be good enough,, we went 20 to get everything roundy again.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: jcassity on October 20, 2013, 07:32:41 PM
Post by: jcassity on October 20, 2013, 07:32:41 PM
by the way, those are the worlds best vise grips!,, i have one myself and they have been through hell and back.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 20, 2013, 07:45:03 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 20, 2013, 07:45:03 PM
.010 probably would be good enough, but since the cost is the same at the machinist, and the pistons and rings cost the same, .010 might as well be .030.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: Aerocoupe on October 27, 2013, 11:58:24 AM
Post by: Aerocoupe on October 27, 2013, 11:58:24 AM
Foe,
I found my complete 331 kit for $450. Guy was in a jam and needed money. Look around in your local ads and online and I bet you can find either a 331 or 347 that is in your wallet range. There is no replacement for cubic displacement except if your going to compress the air going into a small motor. Just a thought if you are gonna lay out some hard earned $$$.
Darren
I found my complete 331 kit for $450. Guy was in a jam and needed money. Look around in your local ads and online and I bet you can find either a 331 or 347 that is in your wallet range. There is no replacement for cubic displacement except if your going to compress the air going into a small motor. Just a thought if you are gonna lay out some hard earned $$$.
Darren
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 27, 2013, 04:14:38 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 27, 2013, 04:14:38 PM
I would, but I seem to remember getting irate with another member here about whether or not you could make 425 N/A horsepower with a 302 inch Windsor motor that culminated in my responding with "Challenge Accepted". Don't remember who it was, and it WAS about 2 years ago, but a challenge is a challenge.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: jcassity on October 27, 2013, 09:47:09 PM
Post by: jcassity on October 27, 2013, 09:47:09 PM
i dont remember that debate,, so are you going to build your car the way you want it this time? with a target of 400+hp with mild bore?
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 27, 2013, 10:09:22 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 27, 2013, 10:09:22 PM
Actually, I got a really good look with the slugs out, and I'm not going to bore. I may if the machine shop tells me I have problems, but barring that, I'm going to stay at 4.000. I'm getting a tfs stage 1, 1.7:1 rollers, GT40Y heads (which I will port), -14.7cc KB domed pistons and 36# injectors. Compression ratio should be about 10.8:1. I should be in the neighborhood of 385 at the crank. The only thing I'm really worried about is valve clearance, but that's what the clay is going to be for. Otherwise, all the usual refinements, Melling, ARP everything, Clevite H series, etc.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 31, 2013, 01:04:26 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 31, 2013, 01:04:26 PM
VHT Flame Proof. I got some VHT Nu-Cast aluminum I'm going to use for the aluminum parts, too. Just something to help pass the time while I'm saving for the first batch of machine shop work.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 31, 2013, 09:26:57 PM
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 31, 2013, 09:26:57 PM
I would not mess around and punch that puppy .030 and build a 347 and call it a day. In all the years i have been building engines i never punched a block .010. They normally never clean up at 10. And you have to worry about taper. Busted scirts are common on HYPER PISTONS They are JUNK for a performance build. The only engines i punch .010 is LS motors as they are sleeved and that is the limit. If 10 does not clean it up the block is sped. Leson learned never build an engine with Hyper pistons and always punch out the block. This is the only way to stack the cards in your favor.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 31, 2013, 09:56:48 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 31, 2013, 09:56:48 PM
The cylinders are clean, so if the machine shop doesn't tell me they need to bore (which they may), I'm not going to bore. If they tell me I need to bore, it's at least .030. Like I said, 10 might as well be 30 seeing as how it costs the same. Hopefully, I'll be able to get the block to them next week. Once they've seen the block, I'll know what size pistons I'm ordering.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: jcassity on November 01, 2013, 08:31:25 AM
Post by: jcassity on November 01, 2013, 08:31:25 AM
i wish vht ~flame proof~ line up had chrome,, all our flame proof color vht paints are holding up very well, you will be happy.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on July 24, 2014, 10:05:16 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on July 24, 2014, 10:05:16 PM
Mega Update.
Build details:
Block is cleaned and decked .005, plate honed, ARP main and head studs, rod bolts, hardened pump drive, using GT40P heads, milled .006, machined for 1.40" springs updated for the TFS-1 cam under 1.6's. KB -2.6cc domes (their own very long story may be told later), Melling m68 pump, reused GT40 upper and lower, 30 lb/hr E85 ready injectors, A9P MAF conversion, fresh paint.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140328_172825_zpsa32c37e6.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140328_172836_zpsa5d813b2.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140402_110051_zps792ed391.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140513_185659_zpsb60f941a.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140604_174445_zps3bb594f9.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140605_125712_zps83882b45.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140605_125719_zps82e3ff2e.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140605_153249_zps338e4ac6.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140605_153254_zps1a66c5a3.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140606_114623_zpsdff76e5d.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140606_114630_zpsc88a5cc2.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140606_114639_zps63ab4ca3.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140609_124517_zpse42a17b0.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140609_124530_zps200239cf.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140609_174237_zpsb47bfdae.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_123016_zps1f351be1.jpg)
Build details:
Block is cleaned and decked .005, plate honed, ARP main and head studs, rod bolts, hardened pump drive, using GT40P heads, milled .006, machined for 1.40" springs updated for the TFS-1 cam under 1.6's. KB -2.6cc domes (their own very long story may be told later), Melling m68 pump, reused GT40 upper and lower, 30 lb/hr E85 ready injectors, A9P MAF conversion, fresh paint.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140328_172825_zpsa32c37e6.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140328_172836_zpsa5d813b2.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140402_110051_zps792ed391.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140513_185659_zpsb60f941a.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140604_174445_zps3bb594f9.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140605_125712_zps83882b45.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140605_125719_zps82e3ff2e.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140605_153249_zps338e4ac6.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140605_153254_zps1a66c5a3.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140606_114623_zpsdff76e5d.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140606_114630_zpsc88a5cc2.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140606_114639_zps63ab4ca3.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140609_124517_zpse42a17b0.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140609_124530_zps200239cf.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140609_174237_zpsb47bfdae.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_123016_zps1f351be1.jpg)
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: thunderjet302 on July 24, 2014, 10:20:03 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on July 24, 2014, 10:20:03 PM
Where's the MAF?
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on July 24, 2014, 10:22:33 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on July 24, 2014, 10:22:33 PM
But WAIT! There's MORE!
Obviously, 30 lb/hr injectors don't play nice with un-tuned speed density EFI, If you'd been in the shop for the first start, I wouldn't have to tell you this, you'd still be choking on raw fuel smoke. FiveOlogy to the rescue. Stage 2 MAF conversion including sensor harness, reman A9P, extruded aluminum elbow, silicone couplers, and a 73mm MAF housing calibrated for 30 lb/hr injectors (and bearing a genuine OEM Ford sensor). The housing is similar in design to a C&L meter with swapable sampling tubes that I hope I never have to mess with.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122039_zpse5a13810.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122049_zps333438a9.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122144_zps9bfbcad3.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122450_zpsa7744466.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122516_zpsf5f3f366.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122521_zps801e501f.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122532_zps8e7f2d58.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122547_zpsb604e3dc.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122610_zps460839ad.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122630_zps8dbe7cef.jpg)
Not the best fitting piece in the box.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122740_zps42dc3d45.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_124512_zpsb6671a31.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_125601_zpsa3a5d1ef.jpg)
D9S (Mark VII, Speed Density, H.O.) FOR SALE!
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_130626_zpsad595f1f.jpg)
Broke the camera after this pic so you can't see the nice clean finished packaging.
Obviously, 30 lb/hr injectors don't play nice with un-tuned speed density EFI, If you'd been in the shop for the first start, I wouldn't have to tell you this, you'd still be choking on raw fuel smoke. FiveOlogy to the rescue. Stage 2 MAF conversion including sensor harness, reman A9P, extruded aluminum elbow, silicone couplers, and a 73mm MAF housing calibrated for 30 lb/hr injectors (and bearing a genuine OEM Ford sensor). The housing is similar in design to a C&L meter with swapable sampling tubes that I hope I never have to mess with.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122039_zpse5a13810.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122049_zps333438a9.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122144_zps9bfbcad3.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122450_zpsa7744466.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122516_zpsf5f3f366.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122521_zps801e501f.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122532_zps8e7f2d58.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122547_zpsb604e3dc.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122610_zps460839ad.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122630_zps8dbe7cef.jpg)
Not the best fitting piece in the box.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_122740_zps42dc3d45.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_124512_zpsb6671a31.jpg)(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_125601_zpsa3a5d1ef.jpg)
D9S (Mark VII, Speed Density, H.O.) FOR SALE!
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z410/Mike_Schader/IMG_20140723_130626_zpsad595f1f.jpg)
Broke the camera after this pic so you can't see the nice clean finished packaging.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on July 24, 2014, 10:29:45 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on July 24, 2014, 10:29:45 PM
Still running rough, So I got out the cylinder balance tester and found #4 and #7 dead. Noid lights, injector tester, fuel pressure gauge, and compression test, show that I have a rocker preload problem that has to be corrected with shims. Basically, on the first crank cycle with the engine cold, compression is great, but 2 or 3 cycles into cranking, oil pressure comes up forcing one or more valves to not fully close on the compression stroke. Somebody may have warned me about milling and decking and rocker preload at one point, but the whole build took so long I just can't remember. $10 shipped for FRPP shim kit, so we'll see if they show up from CPS tomorrow or Monday. This thing had better knock my socks off once it's running right, I'm getting sick of buying stuff.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: thunderjet302 on July 24, 2014, 10:36:57 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on July 24, 2014, 10:36:57 PM
Yeah with milling you're going to need shims. You'll have to check each cylinder to make sure it's got the proper pre-load. My block had been slightly decked when it was rebuilt to clean it up. When I swapped on the Edelbrock heads I had to use one thick shim under each rocker to get the proper pre-load. Oddly enough the rockers were fine with no shims when the car had GT40P heads.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TOM Renzo on July 24, 2014, 10:46:52 PM
Post by: TOM Renzo on July 24, 2014, 10:46:52 PM
That is the bottom line when building an engine. Everything has to be checked. Push rod length has to be checked and adjusted accordingly. never assume anything when assembling an engine. You are lucky that you did not bend a valve. With the cam profiles i run a mistake by not checking preload is disastrous. But i am puzzled as to why you had compression then it went away. Oil pressure will not do that to a lifter. Heat will after it warms up but not a lot. Seems strange that you if in fact do not have correct preload the compression will never be there. Something is not correct but you have to start with preload. Check it out and adjust as necessary. normally i use .035-.040 preload on Fords. Good luck
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on July 24, 2014, 11:03:06 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on July 24, 2014, 11:03:06 PM
The lifters are pumping up by that point. With too much preload, I think that it's bleeding the lifter down. I released the pressure from the tester after the first test, when the needle swept up to 100 right away but the the next few times #4 came around, there was no change. I then performed the test again, and there was no compression. Repeated an hour later and got the same results as the first test, 100psi on the first pass of #4, nothing after.
I really didn't think of preload as a thing. I don't do many builds, and when I have, there hasn't been so much machining, or such a large increase in cam. In school, we only worked on OHC engines, and believe me, I never forget to check shim clearance on a head with DAMB or hydraulic lash adjusters, It just didn't occur to me this time. I'll have it apart Saturday, and I'll measure my preload. Then there will be no more mysteries.
I really didn't think of preload as a thing. I don't do many builds, and when I have, there hasn't been so much machining, or such a large increase in cam. In school, we only worked on OHC engines, and believe me, I never forget to check shim clearance on a head with DAMB or hydraulic lash adjusters, It just didn't occur to me this time. I'll have it apart Saturday, and I'll measure my preload. Then there will be no more mysteries.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on July 25, 2014, 11:14:55 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on July 25, 2014, 11:14:55 PM
Smoothed out nicely, but something's still not right, there's no power, and I feel like it's misfiring the ignition, which is to say, under load, the missing is way worse. I might try some plug wires. I'll have to measure the FRPP ones I have first.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: V8Demon on July 26, 2014, 12:11:03 PM
Post by: V8Demon on July 26, 2014, 12:11:03 PM
Can you borrow/fix your camera and post a video of it running?
Does it do this both warm and cold?
The MAF housing appears to be the MAC version which is basically the same thing as a C&L. I'm wondering if the calibration tube that came with it might have something to do with it. C & L specs the metering tubes for 30 pound and larger injectors to run a cone style filter directly on the end of the meter. For 19's and 24's there are tubes for 2 different styles; fenderwell CAI/stock box OR a cone on the end of the MAF housing. You're running a 30 and the air box; which according to what is on the C&L website will make you run a bit rich. You may have read the 70 post saga myself and Lou have started on the CAI's......
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?6564-Cold-air-intakes&p=436022#post436022
http://www.cnlperformance.com/MAF_info.php?section=15
It doesn't sound like it's your issue, but it might be something to look into and could possibly be compounding your issue thereby making things worse.
FWIW -- I ran another brand MAF from a certain well known company. The car ran like total and would barely idle. It came off and went in a box, sat in my garage for a while, and then.....who knows I think I tossed it. Wish I hadn't as I could have experimented with it a bit to see why it ran bad considering it was supposedly calibrated for my setup.
Does it do this both warm and cold?
The MAF housing appears to be the MAC version which is basically the same thing as a C&L. I'm wondering if the calibration tube that came with it might have something to do with it. C & L specs the metering tubes for 30 pound and larger injectors to run a cone style filter directly on the end of the meter. For 19's and 24's there are tubes for 2 different styles; fenderwell CAI/stock box OR a cone on the end of the MAF housing. You're running a 30 and the air box; which according to what is on the C&L website will make you run a bit rich. You may have read the 70 post saga myself and Lou have started on the CAI's......
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?6564-Cold-air-intakes&p=436022#post436022
http://www.cnlperformance.com/MAF_info.php?section=15
It doesn't sound like it's your issue, but it might be something to look into and could possibly be compounding your issue thereby making things worse.
FWIW -- I ran another brand MAF from a certain well known company. The car ran like total and would barely idle. It came off and went in a box, sat in my garage for a while, and then.....who knows I think I tossed it. Wish I hadn't as I could have experimented with it a bit to see why it ran bad considering it was supposedly calibrated for my setup.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on July 26, 2014, 01:10:24 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on July 26, 2014, 01:10:24 PM
This is my kit (http://"http://shop.fiveologyracing.com/1986-88-FORD-MUSTANG-50L-MASS-AIR-CONVERSION-KIT-MMAK.htm"), with options selected: Stage 2 30lb, Automatic, Factory airbox.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: V8Demon on July 26, 2014, 01:57:45 PM
Post by: V8Demon on July 26, 2014, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;436436
This is my kit (http://"http://shop.fiveologyracing.com/1986-88-FORD-MUSTANG-50L-MASS-AIR-CONVERSION-KIT-MMAK.htm"), with options selected: Stage 2 30lb, Automatic, Factory airbox.
Ah, OK.
I didn't see that they had the option for stock airbox. Good to know. Does this denote for a change in the metering tube? I'm curious......
From what I see on their site and what I've heard; Fiveology has done their homework. Theirs is the only kit I'd consider if I had to do a MAF conversion at this point in time as the old Ford Racing kit is no longer to be had.
I'm watching this thread with interest. Good luck!
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on July 26, 2014, 06:00:58 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on July 26, 2014, 06:00:58 PM
So, today I removed the air bleed plate from my IAC (if you'll check my previous threads (http://"http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?35604-Still-having-rolling-idle-idle-surge-problems&highlight=idle"), you'll find I had installed this as part of a TSB kit for a hunting idle, which turned out to be a bad IAC), and reset my base idle screw, that helped the idle a ton, it also got the tps in range (I had previously set it up, but the time apart must have messed it up). This improved power, but what really helped was to give more timing. The light I used at the shop was borrowed, older than me, and apparently messed up. I set timing with MY light (I don't keep it at the shop, because I never use it there) to 16 degrees base, I cleaned the spout terminals, and on road test I felt like I was almost there. There's still an ignition based misfire at mid throttle tip-in, feels like a bad wire or plug. What are the other P head guys here running for plugs? I'm running Motorcraft agsf-32fm, which is what parts says is the stock plug for Explorer, but I keep thinking my higher compression (10.64:1), larger cam set-up might not be happy with them. MAF seems to have changed the playing field when it comes to dialing in the engine. Feedback?
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: thunderjet302 on July 26, 2014, 09:25:12 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on July 26, 2014, 09:25:12 PM
When I was running GT40P heads I was running AGSF-32-C spark plugs. They were the copper equivalent of what you are running now. I gapped them at .050 and ran 16* initial timing.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on August 15, 2014, 10:30:12 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on August 15, 2014, 10:30:12 PM
So, I pulled the upper intake and valve covers, turns out number 4 intake rocker was backed off and nearly fallen off. I could have sworn the wrench clicked on each and every when I assembled it. Oh well. Running better, but still shiznits the bed when loaded.
I pulled all the plugs, and closed the gap to .040 and cleaned them, I also installed a new dipstick tube, and it was during THAT little operation (which necessitated removal of the driver side header) that I found #7 plug boot burned through. I installed a new boot and a shorty plug on 7, buttoned it up, and now it seems happy. I can still feel that the timing isn't advancing quite right (I suspect that the calibrated MAF disrupts the load calculation), but I'd say it's around 90% happy, and I'm about 95% happy with it. I crossed 500 miles on the engine yesterday, and I think that while the car is put up for the winter I'm going to get a Quarterhorse for it, install the stock calibration tube in the MAF, and set the PCM up for the 30# injectors instead of spoofing it with a MAF calibration. I think it'll be happier that way.
I pulled all the plugs, and closed the gap to .040 and cleaned them, I also installed a new dipstick tube, and it was during THAT little operation (which necessitated removal of the driver side header) that I found #7 plug boot burned through. I installed a new boot and a shorty plug on 7, buttoned it up, and now it seems happy. I can still feel that the timing isn't advancing quite right (I suspect that the calibrated MAF disrupts the load calculation), but I'd say it's around 90% happy, and I'm about 95% happy with it. I crossed 500 miles on the engine yesterday, and I think that while the car is put up for the winter I'm going to get a Quarterhorse for it, install the stock calibration tube in the MAF, and set the PCM up for the 30# injectors instead of spoofing it with a MAF calibration. I think it'll be happier that way.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 19, 2014, 12:39:29 AM
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 19, 2014, 12:39:29 AM
I just noticed that the MAF sensor you have is a "F2VF" part number. That was stock on 94-95 Mustang 5.0s. The 89-93 Mustang 5.0s used a "F1ZF" MAF sensor. The calibration tube plus the wrong sensor might be throwing things off a bit. You can run the "F2VF" sensor with the stock 70mm MAF housing from a 94-95 Mustang with an A9P but putting that sensor in a "calibrated MAF" housing can do some weird things.
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: V8Demon on October 23, 2014, 01:37:40 PM
Post by: V8Demon on October 23, 2014, 01:37:40 PM
Whatever happened with this? You get it smoothed out?
Title: Sudden loss of oil pressure.
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 23, 2014, 01:47:20 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 23, 2014, 01:47:20 PM
Mostly. I found yesterday that my water pump is dribbling, but that's what I get for reusing it. I drive the car everyday, and I'm still where I was at last post. The tune needs refinement, but I need to get a tuning module for the pcm over the winter before I can see to that. First oil change coming up soon, then I'll have to put it away for the winter.