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Technical => Electrical Tech => Topic started by: 88tbirdsport on September 26, 2013, 12:28:58 AM

Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: 88tbirdsport on September 26, 2013, 12:28:58 AM
so the headlights on my 88 t-bird had been flickering on and off. if u hold the high beam switch all the way back they'll stay on but that is annoying. I thought the switch in the column was bad but still does it after i replaced it. noticed headlight switch in dash was getting kinda warm but cant get that at ur local parts store. was wondering if anyone else had this issue or knew the problem.
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: Tbird-fanatic on September 26, 2013, 01:30:32 AM
Thermal protection in the switch is killing power to prevent melt down. The fix - wiring the headlights thru a relay so they get the power from the battery and the only thing the switch does is run the relay which takes no where near the current that the headlights do.
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on September 26, 2013, 06:28:50 AM
Do you have autolamps?
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: 88tbirdsport on September 26, 2013, 07:22:20 PM
if you mean auto-dim as far as i know i do not. I do have flash to pass though.which basically what i do when it is messing up, i just pull the handle back and hold it.

do u guys know if there is an aftermarket switch or if i got one from a junkyard if it'd help?

if not do u guys know any easy way to fix it? i dont wanna destroy wires to much.
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on September 26, 2013, 07:36:18 PM
Not auto dim, autolamp.  Post a pic of your headlamp switch (in vehicle). If you have, then I have a relay solution which is very simple and only minimally invasive consisting of 2 wires and 2 diodes. If not, then we may have to look at how much current you're pulling through the switch.
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: 88tbirdsport on September 26, 2013, 08:56:30 PM
doesnt have autolamps
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on September 26, 2013, 10:51:17 PM
Bummer.  Tell me about your headlamps.  What bulb, anything special?  Any recent work, any other electrical mods?  Do you have the means to measure the current through the switch?
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: 88tbirdsport on September 26, 2013, 11:42:09 PM
basically stock bulbs but my brother had gotten a pr of the ones that are supposed to be brighter,didnt really help any.
only thing really recent is replacing the headlight switch in the column hoping it'd fix the problem but it didnt.
no other electrical mods other then an aftermarket radio but thats been in there forever. I have a digital multimeter for my computer networking/maintenance class so if u tell me where to measure i can.
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on September 27, 2013, 06:49:13 AM
First get some regular 9004 bulbs in there and we'll see what happens.  The problem with high-wattage bulbs is that if you increase Watts and maintain the same Voltage, Current (amps) MUST increase, and if current increases, suddenly you start having problems with the thermal protection breaker in the headlamp switch opening and closing.
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: 88tbirdsport on September 27, 2013, 06:56:26 AM
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;422433
First get some regular 9004 bulbs in there and we'll see what happens.  The problem with high-wattage bulbs is that if you increase Watts and maintain the same Voltage, Current (amps) MUST increase, and if current increases, suddenly you start having problems with the thermal protection breaker in the headlamp switch opening and closing.
yeah I was just getting ready to say that, to produce more power(watts) the voltage is the same so the current has to go up or the way they make em brighter is the resistance in them is less so the current has to go up.

Man what a waste of the $60 my brother spent.they werent even any good lol.

now i'll have to go spend another $40-50 but atleast im 95% sure that will fix my problem
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: teal9550 on September 27, 2013, 12:09:33 PM
regular 9004 bulbs should run you 10-12 bucs a piece less if you know someone willing to give you there shop price.
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: 88tbirdsport on September 27, 2013, 08:37:15 PM
i got em for $9 ea at wal-mart. i did look and seen that both the regular bulbs and the ones that are currently in say they use the same watts but that wouldn't make sense
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on September 27, 2013, 08:46:31 PM
They may be the same wattage, and it may not help to swap them, but we'll know that it's not the bulbs. If it comes to it, I've got a switch I'll sell.
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: 88tbirdsport on September 28, 2013, 01:42:05 AM
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;422457
They may be the same wattage, and it may not help to swap them, but we'll know that it's not the bulbs. If it comes to it, I've got a switch I'll sell.

kk.got lazy today and dint swap em yet but will tomorrow and see if it works
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: ringosc on September 30, 2013, 12:56:46 AM
I've got the same problem in my 88 tc and with my car the head lamps went out when i turned off the brights so now I got to hold the brights on to drive at night, also my fog lamps went out to but both bulbs look to still be in good working condition. I just pulled fuses tonight to see if I had any bad but I didnt see any. If putting new head light bulbs in will do the trick then sweet.
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: Tbird-fanatic on September 30, 2013, 01:01:05 AM
Ryan yours just has plain old cheap 9004 in it. If you can hold the dimmer switch back and they work its probably the multifunction switch, Id have to look at a wiring diagram to make sure theres no bypass though before Id say for sure.
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: 88tbirdsport on September 30, 2013, 06:17:45 PM
So I swapped em this afternoon as they shut off and on all morning on the way to school. so far I tested em for a few mins and they still shut off on high beam but on low they didnt seem to be shutting off. I'll make sure this is accurate on my way to college tomorrow. so is maybe the switch bad then? I did notice one part of the plug for the headlight/turn signal switch in the column was kind of burnt when i changed it.
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: 88tbirdsport on October 01, 2013, 05:15:56 PM
Drove to school this morning on low and so far they didnt go off.sucks that i cant use brights :(
Title: The Joy of Cougar Headlight Problems.
Post by: camelid on October 01, 2013, 07:21:15 PM
I've been having some problems with my 1988 XR7, low beams intermittent, highs were working mostly steadily.  Mine was definitely the multifunction switch on the column.  I could smell it being hot when driving at night for any distance.  I took it apart last night and one of the contacts in the hi/lo portion of the switch had melted down into the plastic a bit and the plastic was gooed up around it blocking the connection.  it also kept the switch from alternating contacts to switch from high to low reliably.  I'm thinking this overheating must be a design flaw. 

I did notice that if I hot-wired the lights direct to the battery they were considerably brighter, I think the engineers undersized the wiring for the load, similar to what they did with the Gen 2 alternator to cause all those associated problems (like, oh, catching fire :) 

I'm going to replace the switch - 55 bucks locally.  Although I got the hi/lo working again, for now, the detent for the turn sigs is broken and I have to hold the turn switch to activate it, cheapie pot-metal it looks like, snapped in the middle of the detent.  I've got two relays and I'll wire them in on a fuse link straight from battery to the lights, and just use the wiring from the bulb connector to energize the relays. 

These lights were so bad when I got the car that I hit a deer I couldn't see until I was right up on it, standing in the road.  Way dim, and I'm going to either swap front clips  (eventually) for an 86 style, moulding be darned, or throw some 4666 bulbs in the sockets with the front plastic removed (they fit snugly but it'll need adjusted by a shop with a beam measuring tool.)  4666 sealed beams might just be the way to go, but it loses the aero look on the front with sunken headlights which sucks, the original plastic does weird stuff to the pattern, which is pretty good from the sealed beams.  Tried sanding and polishing the original plastic but that didn't go well. :)

Relays should definitely help by getting that 15-20A load out of the dash/column harness.

Cabby
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: 88tbirdsport on October 02, 2013, 12:48:48 AM
Quote from: camelid;422736
I've been having some problems with my 1988 XR7, low beams intermittent, highs were working mostly steadily.  Mine was definitely the multifunction switch on the column.  I could smell it being hot when driving at night for any distance.  I took it apart last night and one of the contacts in the hi/lo portion of the switch had melted down into the plastic a bit and the plastic was gooed up around it blocking the connection.  it also kept the switch from alternating contacts to switch from high to low reliably.  I'm thinking this overheating must be a design flaw. 

I did notice that if I hot-wired the lights direct to the battery they were considerably brighter, I think the engineers undersized the wiring for the load, similar to what they did with the Gen 2 alternator to cause all those associated problems (like, oh, catching fire :) 

I'm going to replace the switch - 55 bucks locally.  Although I got the hi/lo working again, for now, the detent for the turn sigs is broken and I have to hold the turn switch to activate it, cheapie pot-metal it looks like, snapped in the middle of the detent.  I've got two relays and I'll wire them in on a fuse link straight from battery to the lights, and just use the wiring from the bulb connector to energize the relays. 

These lights were so bad when I got the car that I hit a deer I couldn't see until I was right up on it, standing in the road.  Way dim, and I'm going to either swap front clips  (eventually) for an 86 style, moulding be darned, or throw some 4666 bulbs in the sockets with the front plastic removed (they fit snugly but it'll need adjusted by a shop with a beam measuring tool.)  4666 sealed beams might just be the way to go, but it loses the aero look on the front with sunken headlights which sucks, the original plastic does weird stuff to the pattern, which is pretty good from the sealed beams.  Tried sanding and polishing the original plastic but that didn't go well. :)

Relays should definitely help by getting that 15-20A load out of the dash/column harness.

Cabby

Yeah I've replaced the switch in the column which includes the turn signal part that ur talking about being broke but i'm sure u know that.
Which it was melted from getting to hot but it was still getting connection. I might need to do a seperate circuit like you are talking about but now that I know more about electricity i'd want a foolproof diagram on the setup to make sure it wont be just as bad.

also i've found that using a mr clean magic eraser helps a TON on the old lens but u just gotta use regular lense cleaner after you use that or it'll still leave a film.
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: 88tbirdsport on October 02, 2013, 06:13:24 PM
sigh. drove to class this morning and they shut off about 5-6 times :( so back to the drawing board
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: jcassity on October 02, 2013, 07:26:54 PM
Not really like said before all you really have to do is a headlamp model like phone and my instruction show

The mods I did released all energy and wants across the multifunction and the headlamp switch

Without auto lamps makes the task slightly simpler and at the end of the day you get to send direct Battery power out to the headlamps without the resistivity of a headlamp switches internal moving parts

In the EV TMs foe I have in our signatures you can actually go drill into the pages showing the  main light switch and there will be a certain little iconic symbol illustrating the thermal circuit breaker built inside that headlamp switch itself

A relay mod for your headlamps and marker lamps is all that needs to be done

I personally wouldn't stop there that I would go ahead and do a relay mod for your irrigation and accessories circuit as well to relieve heat off of your ignition switch

All this stuff is posted in the electrical text section
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: 88tbirdsport on October 08, 2013, 05:50:13 PM
Quote from: jcassity;422805
Not really like said before all you really have to do is a headlamp model like phone and my instruction show

The mods I did released all energy and wants across the multifunction and the headlamp switch

Without auto lamps makes the task slightly simpler and at the end of the day you get to send direct Battery power out to the headlamps without the resistivity of a headlamp switches internal moving parts

In the EV TMs foe I have in our signatures you can actually go drill into the pages showing the  main light switch and there will be a certain little iconic symbol illustrating the thermal circuit breaker built inside that headlamp switch itself

A relay mod for your headlamps and marker lamps is all that needs to be done

I personally wouldn't stop there that I would go ahead and do a relay mod for your irrigation and accessories circuit as well to relieve heat off of your ignition switch

All this stuff is posted in the electrical text section
well after i get the headlight switch change if it is still doing it i guess i'll have to do the relay mod.really hate to have to do it though.
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: jcassity on October 08, 2013, 08:15:47 PM
If your headlamps are still switching off and on do not do the relay modification

There must be another problem

Like mentioned earlier there is a thermal circuit breaker made inside the headlamp switch which would be the primary culprit for switching headlamps off and on

You have already mentioned you swap the headlamp switch out

When I get back to my office I can look at some wiring  diagrams to try to put two and two together

This sounds kind of tricky

Again do not do the mod
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: jcassity on October 08, 2013, 08:16:00 PM
If your headlamps are still switching off and on do not do the relay modification

There must be another problem

Like mentioned earlier there is a thermal circuit breaker made inside the headlamp switch which would be the primary culprit for switching headlamps off and on

You have already mentioned you swap the headlamp switch out

When I get back to my office I can look at some wiring  diagrams to try to put two and two together

This sounds kind of tricky

Again do not do the mod
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: 88tbirdsport on October 10, 2013, 06:45:53 PM
Quote from: jcassity;423145
If your headlamps are still switching off and on do not do the relay modification

There must be another problem

Like mentioned earlier there is a thermal circuit breaker made inside the headlamp switch which would be the primary culprit for switching headlamps off and on

You have already mentioned you swap the headlamp switch out

When I get back to my office I can look at some wiring  diagrams to try to put two and two together

This sounds kind of tricky

Again do not do the mod

i bought a switch from a member on here. got it upt in this evening.so far on high beams it hasnt gone out yet. ill test em on the way to class in the morning and see how they do
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 10, 2013, 08:03:54 PM
Those switches are overloaded by design. Slave it out or you will have 2 bad switches. The circuit breaker is internally in the switch and it is NG. Replace the switch and slave it out pr0nTO!!
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: Tbird-fanatic on October 10, 2013, 09:46:22 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;423211
Those switches are overloaded by design. Slave it out or you will have 2 bad switches. The circuit breaker is internally in the switch and it is NG. Replace the switch and slave it out pr0nTO!!
I agree 100% Tom!! Once Im sure all electronics in my new to me TC are good, thats the 2nd thing being done.
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: ringosc on November 05, 2013, 11:29:42 AM
yes you need to get a relay for your headlights. i had the same problem, and solved mine but buying a relay off ebay. i also bought one for my foglights, I put in new headlight switch and fog lamp switch, along with putting in a new plug sense mine was burnt on the headlights. I also put in a new dimmer switch off the colum.

listen to these guys they know what there talken about.
The relay is what you need or your just ganna keep blowing threw switches, and I would get rid of the auto lamp as well. Ive read plenty of threads that they just become a pain in the ass.
Title: Anyone Have Issues With Headlights going off?
Post by: jcassity on November 05, 2013, 03:27:32 PM
auto lamps are not a pain in the ass, you just need to understand it and not write it off.
name another automatic system that has ran this long without failure.

its design is pretty good.
you just have to RTFM ~evtm and shop manuals that is.