Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

If I go to 5 lug, will SN-95 Stang wheels fit without fitment issues? Seriously thinking about it before I get new wheels.

like these....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Single-17x10-5-Silver-Cobra-R-Wheel-Fits-Mustang-94-04-/280923474957?hash=item4168580c0d&item=280923474957&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

And these....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/17-Rim-Fits-Mustang-Cobra-Wheel-Silver-Rivets-17x9-/270982411771?hash=item3f17cf75fb&item=270982411771&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

Yep, those will fit with no issue, but just to be 110% sure, double check the backspacing all the same.

Also keep in mind that if you go this route, be sure to use the '94-'95 spindles...the 96+ will put the fronts out a bit farther than the 94-5 units will.

How are you going to do the rear?

I'd probably go with ranger axles out back, and I'm thinking about the rotors on the Coolcats website that are a direct replacement for mine.  I do worry about the drums, and would probably have to re-drill mine. Then, I wouldn't have to worry about spindles, brake lines, calipers, master cylinder, etc. The car stops fine as it is. I can actually get the wheels in 4 lug, but not in the 10.5 width like I have now...UNLESS I go 5 lug.

I also, may just stick with the 4 lug wheels. I can still use the 275 tires on the 9 inch rims, and I had planned on going from 9 inch wheels up front to 8 inch width wheels. Tossing around ideas. With paint coming up in July, I really don't need to be spending a lot of cash right now. I still have a short list of needed items for the Sport, and they do cost  Even if some are not real expensive, it's easy to nickel and dime it, and the Sport receives no money from the paychecks, so, I have to be careful as always.

Vinnie, you have the TC rear in now, right?

Get some backing plates from a Sport 7.5, the Grand Marquis drums (1988 is the year I used) and some 94-98 Mustang axles (7.5 or 8.8, no difference), and assemble. I can give you all the part numbers for the brake stuff. I just ordered everything new for a Tbird Sport, but Ranger brakes may be a touch wider, as there is a little bit more real estate inside the Grand Marq drums...

This setup is on my Sport, and I seem to recall you have a drum 8.8 rear, IMO, this would be the most painless and fastest 5 lug conversion for you...unless you wanted to go rear disc..

Recap:

If you have a TC 8.8, then you'll need: '94-'98 Stang axles, again, 7.5 and 8.8 are dimensionally identical, save for the ABS rings and those can be knocked off with a hammer, you'll also need the Sport's 10" backing plates (hopefully you kept yours?) and order a pair of rear drums for an '88 Marquis/Crown Vic, and either reuse or order new a new brake drum kit (springs, adjusters, etc) for both sides, as I did.

Shoot me a text or a call if you want the part numbers, or any additional info :)

I think if you used ranger axles, you'd either have to use 9" brakes, or go to discs...there's a width difference, plus I had 10" backing plates and I knew the drum hat height was nearly identical between Spor drums and those of the Panther cars...

One other thing..... you may or may NOT need to put 5 flat washers on the studs before you put the drums on. One of mine (driver side) the drum contacted the backing plate until I did this. No issues...the brake shoes are in their proper place....I can send you the other 5 washers if you need them, if you go this route.

The rear track width stays essentially the same, as the SN95 axles are the same length as the TC/Sport axles, and the brake components are the same roughly in dimension as the Sport 10" brakes. You get 5 lug with the big drums, and not having the headache of changing your master cylinder, or swapping the prop valve, not to mention converting a brake line out back, and fiddling with a new park brake setup.
Also, your existing rear brake line can be used...indeed, I've still got my original 7.5 lines on my TC rear with this set up. Really, the only change in the long run is axles and drums, when it comes down to it. The Sport 10" backing plates are the key though.
Without them, it's no bueno.

I really am unsure of this swap. I didn't want to change the brakes, look for backing plates, and change virtually everything. May just end up staying with 4 lug. I thought I could keep my brakes and just swap the axles them selves and re-drill the drums. 4 lug looks like the better option for me at this point. I can't drop a lot of cash on these parts simply for a certain wheel when I can get virtually the same wheels in 4 lug. That's a lot of work and effort for 1 extra lug nut per wheel.

As I stated, my brakes stop the car just fine. I don't feel the need to upgrade them right now, and I wanted to keep it as simple as possible. I found where I can get the rotors for $150 shipped, direct swap. It's the rear. No Stangs around here, or old Crown Vics either at the boneyards.

No access to the Sport drums (mine are long gone), or backing plates.

I have to keep the costs way down as I said to allow painting the car this July, and get the new wheels and a few other bits and pieces. Something has to give somewhere. I take no funds from my paycheck for this car, so, that makes it interesting.

why go 5 lug and then put a cobra rim on

chose a rim that they make in 5 lug ony so it unique .............. pricey but some steeda wheels would look good on your car

I am wanting a set of deep dish Cobra R wheels with the rivets in them...in silver with the polished lip. I don't really like Steeda wheels. I'll keep my current wheels as well. I do like them a lot, but with the new paint, I want to try something new to my car. I've had the Cobra R wheels before, and I did like them, but I thought I'd like them again....but mildly different......deeper wheels with polished lips and rivets.
 I have a plan for the old Sport. Once the body work is done, the new hood is on, and it's painted, it'll all come together.

yea deep dish wheels look good

With the nine inch wheels, I can keep the 275 40 17's out back. Once the rear wheels get here, I'll decide on whether I'm using 9's up front with 255's, or 8's with 245's.

a mark rear will get you 5 lug....but will push your wheels out a bit

None of the Fox cars around here anymore. They are drying up. I will probably just keep 4 lug at this point. Like I said, I can get the wheels I want even in 4 lug, I can still go to bigger TC or Stang front brakes and disc rear later should I choose to.

I say that unless you have everything ready for the swap just stick with the 4 lug wheels for now..... you can always collect everything you need for the future, and sell the wheels when its time for a change again.

Vinnie, I will keep my eyes open for a Sport...I'll get the backing plates for you. From there, all you need is the Stang axles, and some new Grand Marq drums. Easy peasy. Can you find me some Mustang tails for a '90 or so LX? Those will buy you the drums...I've got 90 bucks in mine... ;)

Hell, I'll buy the drums, send 'em to you for the taillights, even? If you can find some, that is. Let me dig around, see if i can find some Sport backing plates. Sports are rare here, but sometimes you can find an LX with the 10" drums too...those will have what you need also. Mustang axles are everywhere, in fact, I may have an extra set here even.

The 5 lug is easy, and obviously you'd need to change axles, but you could probably get away with redrilling the drums, but I think the Stang axles have a larger hub than does the 4 lug units. That would be my concern with re-using the 4 lug drums.
Clayton can vouch, I think he did the same thing I did with the Marquis drums, stang axles, and 10" backing plates.

I couldn't tell you if the length (track width, actually) will all balance out in regards to the 9" brake setup you have now. I don't think for certain the dimensions will be correct with Ranger axles, 9" brakes and the Ranger drums...I have a feeling it will narrow your track width by a coupla inches.

Don't give up on it...if I can find a pair of 10" backing plates, I'll get 'em for ya. From there, it's just a matter of parts swapping.

I'll see what I can find as far as Stang lights. Thanks Beau.

No worries my man..you guys see any bad weather the last few days?

Lots of rain and some high winds, but, no tornadoes as there was an hour and a half north of us. My grandmother's house was leveled, but she lives in cali with my parents as of last fall. Insurance will cover her losses.

Sn 95 axels without the exciter ring of course, box body mid 80's grand marquis 10" drums. Sure fit

Wouldn't a used SN95 rear from a 94-98 car with gears already installed would be much easier to install and in the long run cheaper?  I would think there would be one or two up for sale in OKC/Ardmore area with Thunder Valley close by and the track at Ardmore (always had a great time there).

Darren

I've been comparing measurements on Napa's website, and I THINK that 80something to 92 2wd ranger rotors might be what the coolcats article is referring to when it references 5-lug rotors as a direct swap.  The bearing cups are a little bigger OD (talking about thousandths of an inch) and the rotor diameter is about .2 inches larger, but the thickness is identical, as is the overall hub height with the rotor laying flat.  Also, the bearings have the same cup angle and cup width, so our original bearings should ride happy a few thousandths deeper in the cup, but otherwise ok.  I'm going to pick up a used one, I think, to test fit and I'll get back with results in a week or so.

I want to use left hand Ranger axles, too, but I think I'm going to get the matching backing plates, shoes, drums, cylinders and so on.  Sure the Ranger drums are an inch wider, but that's all toward the axle .  From what I hear it will work, and give me somewhat better back brakes.  I just bought a 7.5 LSD, so I'll have it all apart, anyway.

The ranger front rotors are what you are looking for but 10" brakes up front are a joke at best with these cars.  Even with the ranger rotor swap your rim choice is limited due to the larger hub.  I'm not saying it cannot be done but it is a rig at best because it typically involves grinding on the hub or leaving the dust cap off.  This is the same problem with the Fox Mustang 5.0 or 87-88 TC front spindle swap and using the Lincoln Mark VII rotors to go to five lug.  I went this route and it was a waste of money and when I finally moved over to the SN95 style of five lug my old swap "kit" was worthless as the SN95 stuff is so plentiful in salvage yards no one wants the older stuff that limits them in rim choice.  Just my 0.02 on it.

Just remember to be careful with your brakes as you go mucking with the brakes the factory proportioning valve may no longer put the correct bias in the car as well as the MC & booster may not be sized properly for the brakes you choose.

Darren

That's why I went with the setup I have...I didn't have time or inclination to swap master and/or booster and prop valve. I might someday, and I do have a set of TC park brake cables that are functional, I just wanted something cheap, reliable, and easy to find, and as I already had the Sport's 10" brake back plates, the rest was some measuring and collaboration with another member who did the same thing at about the same time.

So for me, it was just what I needed and wanted. If one could find a complete 8.8 from a '94-'8 GT, then yeah, that might be a better plan, but those crs aren't common in the yards here, and usually they don't last more than a couple of days when they do come in.

Anything on the Ranger rotors that is just a little too much isn't a problem for me. If the hubs are a fuzz bigger at the wheel hub hole, I'll just lathe it down a little (as long as we're only talking a little)  for example, the ranger rotor diameter is .2" larger.  Hello Ammco brake lathe and new bits. You might not believe what you can do when you turn the drum wheel instead of the rotor wheel.  I've worked odd parts on the brake lathe before, it's not a big deal.  Our Hunter lathe won't to do it, but the Ammco is a bit more flexible.

A little preliminary info:
*The rotor "hat" is 5.5mm larger radius - contacts pad backing, machined bottom half of "hat" down 2.5mm, pads now have good clearance to the hub
*The rotor has .1 inch larger radius - no contact with caliper or spindle, no action taken
*The hub height is 3.2mm greater - bearings are 3.2mm further apart causing the spindle nut and lock to partially cover the pin hole, applied a small curve to the pin before installation
The bearing cups are 1mm larger OD - Tbird bearings fit the races perfectly, but the dust cap no longer fits, will obtain ranger dust caps

Disc Brakes R Us has the 5 lug rear rotors that will work with the TC rear when using the SN95 rear axles. Send an email to Tom Reid (tom@discbrakesrus.com) and he can give you the info on them. I haven't bought them yet, but they are $139 per set.

If this is legit, this should be made a sticky. A little pricey, but if you're dead set on 5 lug rear discs with our track width, what else ya gon' doo, boy? LOL

I can't locate them on their web page, but the part number is 5455. Their page is kind of difficult to navigate and their search is not working at present. Following are the dimensions that Tom Reid emailed to me. I contacted them in February and he sent photos from their web page.

overall height 2-21/64  diameter 10-11/64 (type vented rotor)
 
bolt circle 4-1/2 inch (Ford mustang)

Do you know if they are vented or solid rotors?

http://www.htcracing.com/make/ford/rear(http://http://www.htcracing.com/make/ford/rearplain54036.jpg)plain54036.jpg

vented

Check over on the Corral.  It has been discussed in many a thread and they work like a champ.

Darren