Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: 88turbo on April 25, 2013, 11:36:25 PM

Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: 88turbo on April 25, 2013, 11:36:25 PM
I have the new engine in and running but its running way rich, here's what it is....
1988 thunderbird turbo coupe
1999 Explorer 5.0
mass air
E-303
trickflow springs
1.6 roller rockers
65mm TB
Explorer intake
F150 fuel rail
BBK shorties
Offroad H-pipe

I'm beating my head trying to figure this thing out,  I know the first thing your going to say is pull codes....  well truth is I never really figured out the method.  I guess I'm looking for some ideas, but I know I need to know the codes other than system rich :toilet:
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: vinnietbird on April 26, 2013, 06:48:43 AM
Buy a code reader. They are cheap. What is your timing at? I'm just curious.
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: 88turbo on April 26, 2013, 08:13:05 AM
Timing is set where you had the white mark on the balancer, I think 10 or 12 degrees.  I will look into a code reader.
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: Beau on April 26, 2013, 11:54:24 AM
Know somebody that has a MAF you can borrow?

Still on the 19#'s or did you go to 24's?

Parts stores have the code readers for about 40 bucks, +/-.
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on April 26, 2013, 12:25:00 PM
Read the Codes!!!


If the o2 sensors are bad it will default to a rich condition...
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: 86cougar on April 26, 2013, 01:33:50 PM
Which EEC are you using? I had to switch mine.
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: Dan B. on April 26, 2013, 01:55:56 PM
O2 sensors in the wrong sides??
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: 88turbo on April 26, 2013, 09:16:42 PM
running A9P with 19#er's

here are the KOEO codes

31,81,82,84,85,95
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: 88turbo on April 26, 2013, 09:17:39 PM
Quote from: Dan B.;413947
O2 sensors in the wrong sides??

would that make a difference?
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: Haystack on April 27, 2013, 03:08:40 AM
81 and 82 are tad/tab sensor.

84 and 85 are egr/purge canister.

95 means you didn't run the fuel pump monitoring wire.

31 pfe/evp sensor failed below minimum voltage.

everything I see is emissions related.
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on April 27, 2013, 07:56:16 AM
Quote from: Haystack;413978
81 and 82 are tad/tab sensor.

84 and 85 are egr/purge canister.

95 means you didn't run the fuel pump monitoring wire.

31 pfe/evp sensor failed below minimum voltage.

everything I see is emissions related.

Yup, nothing suggests a rich condition, so unless both o2 sensors were somehow out of calibration(about a zero chance) it ain't happnin'...
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: beast50 on April 27, 2013, 08:34:39 AM
matched wiring harness for oxygen sensors to transmission setup (manual or auto) and computer?
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: beast50 on April 27, 2013, 08:35:36 AM
maybe a sticky fuel pressure regulator?
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 27, 2013, 11:10:40 AM
How do you know it's rich? Any gray smoke, exhaust burning your eyes, or fuel fouled plugs? It could just smell because of the lack of cats. An E-303 cam has some overlap which will make the exhaust smell dirty. Did you run a cylinder balance test? That test will tell you if you have a problem with an injector.
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: Haystack on April 27, 2013, 08:05:46 PM
a bad injector or o2 sensor should have thrown a code. not saying it will though.

if you suspect bad o2 sensors, disconnect them and see if its still running cuddy. most of the time you don't throw codes and your running rich, its a maf/fuel pressure issue, in my experience.
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: 88turbo on April 27, 2013, 09:19:35 PM
I've decided to ditch the TC lines and F150 rail in favor of the stock/mustang style fuel lines and rail, after the swap is complete I will go from there. I really hate how the F150 rail puts the FPR under the upper intake....  I will also be running a different FPR with the new rail. I've ordered some new O2's so they will be going in soon also.
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: Haystack on April 27, 2013, 09:30:38 PM
flip the upper around and use throttle body brackets off of a crown vic.
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: Beau on April 27, 2013, 10:44:31 PM
Quote from: Haystack;414028
flip the upper around and use throttle body brackets off of a crown vic.

Yeah, because THAT will do any good. :screwy::laughing:
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: Haystack on April 27, 2013, 10:54:59 PM
why wouldn't it? from my understanding the fuel pressure regulator is just on the other side of the fuel rail. flipping the upper would be easy with no egr  in the way. then you just loop your throttle cable back around on the drivers side of the engine.
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: Beau on April 27, 2013, 11:12:18 PM
Because that's not really going to solve his issue..
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: 88turbo on April 28, 2013, 12:00:14 AM
Where would my cold air intake go? And the battery? Nah but thanks for the thought.
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: TOM Renzo on April 28, 2013, 06:30:08 AM
88 how do you know you are rich?? Are you getting black smoke loading up ETC!!! You do not have any mixture codes as posted by by your codes.  Can you add any other symptoms just saying Thanks
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: Haystack on April 28, 2013, 10:32:24 AM
pull a couple spark plugs and see if there's gas on them.
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: 88turbo on April 28, 2013, 11:12:01 AM
plugs are black, exhaust is harsh and burns your eyes and nose.  car wont start and stay running.
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: vinnietbird on April 28, 2013, 12:07:26 PM
You're not getting fuel in your oil are you? Also, were the plugs wet at all?
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: Haystack on April 28, 2013, 03:22:06 PM
did you un hook and.plug the vac line to the map\bap sensor?
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: 88turbo on April 28, 2013, 04:13:40 PM
from what I understand the Map/Bap doesnt get vacuum with mass air, yes the plugs were wet.
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: TOM Renzo on April 28, 2013, 07:38:14 PM
MAP most definitely gets Vacuum.  BARO  does not get vacuum.
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: 88turbo on April 28, 2013, 07:54:20 PM
MAP = speed density, BAP = Mass air from what I understand
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: 88turbo on May 02, 2013, 11:44:38 AM
car is back up and running again, I checked KOER codes and it gave me 44 and 94. the car seems to be running better at this point although I havent had a chance to actually drive it yet.
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: thunderjet302 on May 02, 2013, 12:13:26 PM
Quote from: 88turbo;414354
car is back up and running again, I checked KOER codes and it gave me 44 and 94. the car seems to be running better at this point although I havent had a chance to actually drive it yet.

 
44 and 94 are Thermactor codes. I'm guessing it's gone? They won't cause a rich problem.

You switched to the T-bird/Cougar 5.0 fuel system and the problem was solved? If so you may have had a fuel pressure regulator issue. At least it's running good now :).
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: 88turbo on May 02, 2013, 12:31:23 PM
I'm guessing the FPR was the issue, still going to throw on some new O2's and then go for a drive when the mud in the alley dries up a bit.
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on May 02, 2013, 01:05:48 PM
Speed density uses MAP which gets vacuum, when you mass air convert and rearrange the EEC connector, the MAP becomes BARO, and is no longer connected to vacuum, but left open to the atmosphere (barometric pressure sensor), same sensor put to a different use. Just thought I'd clarify on that.
Title: Mass air running rich
Post by: TOM Renzo on May 03, 2013, 06:21:54 AM
YUP!!!!! That is correct.