Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Ok had a DUZY Friday. This TRUCK came from a DEALER!!! They could not fix it!! Car had all kinds of strange electrical ISSUES. So out comes the SCOPE to check for NOISE. Now i know most people do not have scopes but a digital meter will due. Did a voltage check on one of the circuits and the voltage had a lot of NOISE. A quick check at the alt showed no issues. So i checked all the ground and battery connections to see if they were tight!! And they were. But low and behold a main BATTERY FEED had a bad FACTORY CRIMP. I pealed back the shrink wrap and found this!! Below is the culprit. Even factory crimps suck. So with the industry not using solder connections expect this from time to time. This  is something you might run in to!!

Notice the connector was TIGHT but the CRIMP FAILED!!!

(http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx46/proguns/001-160_zps4940297f-1_zps4dd1ab01.jpg) (http://s740.photobucket.com/user/proguns/media/001-160_zps4940297f-1_zps4dd1ab01.jpg.html)

I found one like this a coupe years back on a Mustang, I think it was an 08.  The alternator output cable attaches to the pos terminal with a ring terminal like this one and is the only thing on the post.  Wouldn't charge.  Power at fields, power on gencom, good grounds. R&R alternator, check charge output it's good, RTC.  Very routine.  Then it came back a few days later.  Motorcraft remans are pretty spotty, so I throw another at it, but this time I can't roll it out happy.  So I dig. V drop on V out cable is good, grounds good, field and gencom are good, so I go to lunch.  When I come back, I notice a slightly melted spot on the pos terminal cover, so I take apart the connection and find the cable burnt black on the end at the ring terminal. I think to myself, "well shiznit, that's a  fine way to block charging output without blocking voltage".  After that it was easy, she wasn't under warranty, so I clipped off the end and soldered a big copper lug to the cable and stuck it back down.  Haven't seen it since.

You got it and FOE my point is the industry is not allowed to solder any more. I figured you have ran in to this at one point being a dealer TECH.  Our Government at work banning solder aint it wonderful. Also stock up on electronic solder. Rumor is it will eventually be BANNED in the future. I cant figure that one out!! So this kind of thing will be common to some point. I had a big disagreement with one of the tech articles in MOTOR MAGAZINE a few years back about this lack of solder on connectors. The article they wrote claims solder-less connectors are better. I do not believe that one bit. THOUGHTS!!!

Only thing I've used a scope for recently is to monitor CAN network activity.  That's a WHOLE other nightmare.  Lets just say that there are good reasons why you don't buy salvage title vehicles and fix them up on the cheap.  Especially if you don't want to buy expensive parts like engine bay harnesses.

Havent had many battery/alternator wire issues, but had a couple duzzies from attempted repairs by people that had no clue what they were doing.  A 2000's grand prix that was a rebuilder had ABS and Traction Control lights on. Found out which sensor it was that was reading wrong, thats when the real fun began! Long story short some one had used a cheap crimp connector to fix a wire damaged in the accident. Corrosion was a about a foot away from the module. Fixed it the right way and a new bearing later and we havent seen it for the problem since. On top of all that a local dealer couldnt figure it out and told us good luck!!!

2nd one was a 1999 Bonneville SSEI, Only the drivers door would work(locks, window). Codes for the modules siad it couldnt communicate, tried commanding it with a tech 2 no dice. Followed the communication wires as far as I could to see if I could find a break till it went under the carpet. Wiring diagram time, hey theres a splice under the drivers seat. Quick internet search before I pulled the seat and low and behold its a common problem because the dang things cant keep water out. Pulled the seat and carpet back and it was soaked. Found the splice and some one had fixed it before with a cheap crimp/heat shrink connector and when they crimped it they broke the plastic. Corroded as all get out in there. Cut the wires back to clean wire, added what I needed to, soldered, good heat shrink. It was a school(vo tech) car so I advised them to pull the carpet and dry it out and figure out where the water was getting in.

Guess as long as we have guys like you around we can keep our junk on the roads..

I for one don't want or need big brother under the hood of my vehicles.

Well they are already under there!!! Rumor has it this president is pushing 50 State mandatory emission compliance. Not 100% what it is all about but it scares the hell out of me. Anyone want to guess why the 54 MPG CAFE WAS IMPLEMENTED>> TAKE A GUESS!!

to raise the price of a gallon of gas, nothing less.

my car passed a stricter then California emissions test with a rotted out smog pump pipe. a good tune up is all any car I've had needs.

Stacks i find some of your answers rather disturbing. As California has the strictest emission testing on the planet. And it is also visual. So you in fact did not pass a CALIFORNIA BASE TEST AND PASS. Just saying!!!

"Exhaust emissions standards limit the amounts of key pollutants coming from a vehicle's tailpipe and leaks in its fuel system. All new vehicles for sale in the United States are certified to meet either Federal emission standards, set by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), or California standards, set by the California Air Resources Board (CARB). Currently the following states have adopted California standards and will soon implement them: Arizona, California, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington. Federal standards apply to all the remaining states."

CAFE numbers are so high because this president is a communist hell bent on TAXES. Every car sold most likely will not pass a CAFE standard regulation @ 54 MPG. Other than Hybrids and or all electric Cars. So if it does not comply a Gas Guzzler rules will apply and that means a tax on the vehicle. So 95% of the new cars will be fined as a federal TAX. It is all about the MONEY NOT PERSONAL !!!

Those poor connections can be extremely dangerous, and it doesn't only apply to cars. A few weeks ago I went to the cottage and noticed the heat wasn't working. Breaker wasn't tripped. I pulled the thermostat out of the wall and saw that one of the terminals on the t-stat was burned up just like the one in your photo. This was a factory-made crimped on ring terminal, riveted on (factory rivet). The galvanized metal box the thermostat was mounted in got so hot the galvanizing burned off, and the wooden stud this box was attached to was scorched. The wall was also scorched. It is a miracle the cottage did not burn to the ground. I'm thinking about sending the thermostat to the CSA to have them look at it, as I'd bet this problem has caused more than one house fire.

I'd left the T-stat there, but next time I'm there I'll take some photos and show you all. It's scary...

I know these connections get very sketchie at times and it is scary. The lack of good connections on high current draws is something to be desired. I cant believe the connections that are failing!!! Is it possible those crimp connections are NG. Seems to be the case in your cabin and the cars i work on. This is not the first time i have seen this and wont be the last. Thank god your cabin is ok.

Ok, was to the cottage today, so here are the pics, as promised. I was wrong, it was screwed on instead of riveted, but it was the crimp that failed:

But the worst of it is this: I thought this was cheap Made in China , but it appears I was wrong. The aluminum housing was made in Canada, the black electrical components made in USA:

looks to me that you should check to see how imbalanced your load is, not so important on single phase i know but too much neutral current coupled with more than 50ohms on your ground rod could cause this.

check your main ground in your panel board (utility side), if you have not disconnect downstream of the meter and upstream of your panel board, this mght be too risky.

ive seen this before and it 9 times out of 10 falls back to linear load neutral current being too high.

another issue is low voltage from your power company.

  are you starting to "slightly" buy into my wire/lug size theory in that the auto makers are building "just good nuff" with 80% real load factors?

i like the connectors you show because they integrate a crimp and strain relief on the jacket.  I most always disagree with the wire size because the 12v losses across distance factor in to the circulair milimeters of copper needed to carry the load, otherwise you start seeing corrosive things like this happen, corrosion = resistance.  over time this equals heat.  couple this with disimilar metals and that contributes as well.

Jay just a question??? His post said the switch or controlling device was for his HEAT. Normally that would be a 220V circuit. So my question to you is how does the neutral come in to play ???? If i am correct 220 circuts do not use the Neutral as wired. Now the issue with the lug i posted is not a wire size issue at all. Reason being i went back to the owner of these vehicles and soldered all the other terminals in his fleet. NO ISSUES. I also checked the current in the circuit and found it was not even close to the wiring capacity. So either those connections are falty and the old standard i live by is correct. SOLDER IS THE ANSWER. Just me not an engineer just a realist!!

NOTE the switch posted by thunder shows a tamper proof TORX. So in my thinking the company did not want it messed with and most likely has a specific instillation procedure and torque for the device. just a guess!!

Also why only one side failed. I come across this with heater blower motors on over the road trucks. The plugs to the heaters burn open on the POSITIVE SIDE NEVER THE GROUND SIDE. This has baffled me as to WHY. The connector has to handle the same current so why the positive side all the time. Conclusion!!! In my thinking is the crimps are different or the connectors are heavier but they are not. Soldering and removing the connector repairs the issue and this prooves the connections are resistive. Thoughts???

 
Unless the government is willing to replace it with something just as good or better, without soldering this country would become defenseless is so many ways. Try to launch a missile or sent a man to the moon with out solder. Just take a circuit board and take all the solder off and what do you have....parts. Just my 2 cents.

Looks like a terrible crimp! Insulation doesn't go up to the second insulation crimp! I bet they didn't use the proper crimping tool. D'oh.

Yes, Scott, as Tom said, this is a two wire 220 circuit - no neutral involved. This was a faulty crimp on a cheap-ass thermostat. The exact type of cheap-ass thermostat you find in most new construction. The replacement thermostat's wires were welded on, looks like a friction weld.

I would bet that a lot of house (and car) fires have been caused by things like this...

Makes me nuts THUNDER haw companies cheap out on our expense and sometimes our lives.

who cares about cheap , we've got 9 out of 10 people who dont even know the raw difference between "best cost" vs "best price"
once people start shopping best cost, they might come around.

tc~ looks like the weaker side gave out on the tstat, id still verify the same leg of power on the next busy 240v ckt visually to verify you dont have a power problem.
maybe you dont, and if you dont know your ground field resistance then you should.  I assume the missing leg you show is L1 based soley on what i believe you used as 240v color coding.