Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: JKATHRE on April 07, 2013, 06:39:11 PM
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: JKATHRE on April 07, 2013, 06:39:11 PM
Hello...
In the interest of curtailing expenses, I have cutback oil changes in recent years. This with several things in mind. First, the TBird is way old (1988) and the other vehicle is an '89. Second, much preaching has been heard in the past decade on the subject of the better quality lubricants and modern engines that are better able to run on the extended life period of oils...and so on. And also, we do not drive these 2 cars as much, so they sit longer as well--we do not use them on trips. Today, I went ahead and changed the filters on the 2 vehicles figuring on the theory those filters will still spoil (crud up) in a short time due to the age of the vehicles and the aged oil. I add a new quart but keep the rest in the pan. In fact, the larger vehicle seemed to have a locked up filter (spin the filter off and nothing from the engine poured out--although the filter is full?). SO, I ask, what is the opinion on this? Anyone else do this? I had not changed the oil in these vehicles since mid last year and wondered whether this practice will get me into trouble. The oils look OK on the stick. I cannot imagine just leaving a filter in place for as long as the oil. Also, these vehicles need to have the ball joints and steering gear lubed up periodically--you cannot ignore that.
JR
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: Thunder Chicken on April 07, 2013, 06:46:39 PM
I've seen plenty of new engines that were damaged even though the OEM guidelines were followed. GM even recently announced a recall where they're reprogramming the oil life monitors on their vehicles because of high warranty costs due to oil-related wear. Frequent changes are cheap insurance. That's all I've got to say on the matter...
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TOM Renzo on April 07, 2013, 06:47:25 PM
Normally storage is harder on oils than driving. The contaminants and acids are in the oils as they sit. No sense in changing a filter if you dont change oil. Normally i change the oil before storage, I have been doing this for years. But i normally change oils in my TOYS more often than my DD. Been doing this for years. Just me!!!
If you drive a TOYOTA you better change oil or the engine will sludge up real nice.
Oil is cheap engines are not. Change oils it is cheap insurance. Just my thoughts on the subject!!
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: 1BadBird on April 07, 2013, 06:59:33 PM
I'm with Tom & Thunder on this. It's cheap insurance.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: QUICKSHIFT on April 07, 2013, 08:15:42 PM
I store my Cougar for the winter. Last spring I put fresh Mobil 1 10w-30 in and after 1000km (600mi) I put it in storage WITHOUT fresh oil. So just for S's and G's when I serviced it last week, I took an oil sample and sent it off to http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ for an annalist and will relay the results when I hear back in 3-4 weeks.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: Masejoer on April 07, 2013, 08:46:15 PM
Before my T-bird lost daily driver duty, I'd change filters at 4k and 7k miles (with topoff), then filter and oil at 10k miles. I use Amsoil's 25k mile (I think) line of oil. This came out to $40-45/year for 10k miles and ran the oil far from its useful life with new filtration every 3-ish thousand miles, which our engines can use since they aren't as "clean" as newer engines. I just figured with a vehicle that the manufacturer recommends 3k mile changes, you're looking at $60-100 for 10k miles at a quick lube. I was saving a bit, using quality oil, and still keeping the filtration up (using the FL1A filters). Plus it's pretty easy to simply spin a new filter on at the 4k and 7k intervals.
Now I don't know how to best change my oil. It sits a lot so I assume annual changes with regular oil would be more ideal.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on April 07, 2013, 09:55:32 PM
Quote from: QUICKSHIFT;412808
I store my Cougar for the winter. Last spring I put fresh Mobil 1 10w-30 in and after 1000km (600mi) I put it in storage WITHOUT fresh oil. So just for S's and G's when I serviced it last week, I took an oil sample and sent it off to http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ for an annalist and will relay the results when I hear back in 3-4 weeks.
I don't think it takes that long, they e-mail you the results...
Anyway, you'll be fine, the high TBN of today's good synthetics neutralize the acids(TAN on your Blackstone report), so if you ran it say 1000 miles a year, could go two and maybe three years safely... I change my daily drivers once a year, and the toys maybe every other year... For the 2011/2012 change the wife's Grand Marquis racked up almost 10K mi, on same oil and filter... Looking through the oil fill, the top of the head and valve springs still looks like new(and it's a '98)... It gets Mobil 1 Extended Performance that's good for 15K mi... Hasn't gotten as many miles on this change, but will be due again in three months and will get another dose of same(as will the '07 Grand Marquis also on the same schedule)... One key issue to keep acid from building up is be sure the engine is fully warmed when started and then run(driven) for another 15-20 minutes... Short trips on cold engine is extremely hard on the oil...
GM's problem is with the direct injection engines that tend to be a lot harder on oil than the port injection systems...
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: Beau on April 07, 2013, 11:51:41 PM
Can you go to the parts store and buy an engine off the shelf and take home, change that in 20 minutes?
I change the oil in my Mountaineer once a month...am doing it in the AM, in fact. Better safe than sorry. What's 25 bucks for peace of mind, and possibly, if not likely longer engine life?
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: Haystack on April 08, 2013, 12:15:23 AM
I went over 40k miles without a oil change my last bird. just topped it off when it got low.
In my opinion you change the oil to clear contaminants and moisture. you drive the car long distances and get it hot i don't think its as critical. I still haven't changed oil on this third. I'm at least 12k already this year. I've only added 2 quarts. which i don't feel is out of line for 200k.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on April 08, 2013, 07:33:06 AM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;412826
Can you go to the parts store and buy an engine off the shelf and take home, change that in 20 minutes?
I change the oil in my Mountaineer once a month...am doing it in the AM, in fact. Better safe than sorry. What's 25 bucks for peace of mind, and possibly, if not likely longer engine life?
If you like wasting $25 every month for piece of mind that's fine, I sleep well with yearly changes... I 46+ years of vehicle ownership I've never changed oil more often than at 3K mi(in my younger years could have been once a month)...
Quote from: Haystack;412828
I went over 40k miles without a oil change my last bird. just topped it off when it got low.
In my opinion you change the oil to clear contaminants and moisture. you drive the car long distances and get it hot i don't think its as critical. I still haven't changed oil on this third. I'm at least 12k already this year. I've only added 2 quarts. which i don't feel is out of line for 200K
That's mostly correct but if you're only adding two quarts in 12K mi and using dino I'd rethink my strategy... Most Synthetics can go 10/12K without issue but that's stretching std oils...
Of course how you drive and engine condition are major players, highway miles and a tight engine with little blowby is easy on the oil... If a engine has ring seal problems, the blowby does break down the oil much faster but if you're adding a quart every 1200-1500miles it's mostly offset...
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: jcassity on April 08, 2013, 08:04:42 AM
i alwasy thought the "dark" stuff that eventually changes the color in the oil does not belong there so as soon as it starts to turn dark, it should be changed. about once a year i have to do back to back changes in the same day to flush out the dark stuff with a can of kerosine.
i try to keep it simple like that, just change the oil when it changes color... and that does not take very long at all.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on April 08, 2013, 08:40:13 AM
Dark really doesn't have a lot to do with oil condition... Look at a diesel, in 100 miles it's oil will be as black as the oil that was just drained... True dark could indicate abrasive contaminates which is defiantly bad, but if you have a good filter(no orange can of death - Fram), it catches the particles that are large enough to cause wear...
Only engine I've flushed in the last 25 years is my 'Hoopie' '96 F-150 that had less than two quarts in it(incl filter)... That oil could have passed for a diesel drain, so I added three miscellaneous quarts and ran it probably seven or eight times over a month for 30-45 minutes each time before I put tags on it... That oil when drained was darker than the 10K oil that comes out of my Grand Marquis... The fresh fill now has a little over 1K on it, looks good and it's used maybe a half pint...
Kerosene has very little in the way of lubricating qualities, maybe in the shop heater would be as close to my engine as it would ever be...
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: 1BadBird on April 08, 2013, 09:52:35 AM
The main reason oil changes to a dark color has more to do with the residual casting material. That's why a few of my racing buddies out west would have their blocks baked, re-cleaned, then painted on the inside as well as the outside. It keeps the oil much cleaner. One person in-particular would tear his engine down at the end of each season to replace the rings/bearings. The oil removed was almost as clean as the day it was put in from the previous rebuild. The pistons looked they were just removed from the original boxes with little carbon on top. He was running a 64' Chevelle w/a 400 sbc
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on April 08, 2013, 09:55:42 AM
I'm pretty traditional, 3month/3k, whichever comes first. Lately, since everything we have on tap at the shop is semi-synthetic, I've been running 5months/5k, but I start getting nervous around 4k. I add less than a quart in between, but I always add the same stuff I'm running. Once a year I substitute a quart of oil for a quart of Type F and run a slightly shorter interval. My oil is brown by the time I drain it, but it's always still translucent, never tar black, except for the yearly where I run the type F; that gets really dark.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on April 08, 2013, 11:47:18 AM
Clean it up with transmission fluid??? Doesn't happen, transmission fluid has no detergent additive as it isn't needed in a sealed system that's not exposed to blowby like a engine... Won't likely do any harm but is serving no purpose either...
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: Aerocoupe on April 08, 2013, 11:49:30 AM
I run Brad Penn oil (http://www.penngrade1.com/Products/Racing-Oils.aspx) in my Coupe and Bird. This is all personal preference but I change the oil filter at 2,500 miles and the oil and filter at 5,000 miles. If you are racing a car either drag or road race you should change the oil and filter prior to the event and after as you will get gas in the oil from the WOT throttle events and break down the oil much quicker. This is especially true in the road racing but we have always changed oil and filter before and after no matter what the racing venue was.
The one thing with the Zn additives is they will shorten the life of the catalytic converters if you are running them. How much I do not know but I know it was one of the reasons Zn was removed from the current oils we have on the market which can also cause failure issues with flat tappet cams. Anyhow, you can do a Google search on this and get more reading materials than you probably want.
Darren
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on April 08, 2013, 11:56:52 AM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;412861
Clean it up with transmission fluid??? Doesn't happen, transmission fluid has no detergent additive as it isn't needed in a sealed system that's not exposed to blowby like a engine... Won't likely do any harm but is serving no purpose either...
You had better check that again. ATF is HIGHLY detergent added, oil is almost not at all. Ever seen a dirty valve body? Especially considering the metals and clutch material shedding that you get under normal operation in a trans. Ever seen a sludged up trans? I haven't. The detergent packages are the biggest difference between ATF's of different types, that and the viscosity, but typically most ATF's are 30w.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: Beau on April 08, 2013, 12:24:34 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;412839
If you like wasting $25 every month for piece of mind that's fine, I sleep well with yearly changes... I 46+ years of vehicle ownership I've never changed oil more often than at 3K mi(in my younger years could have been once a month)...
That's mostly correct but if you're only adding two quarts in 12K mi and using dino I'd rethink my strategy... Most Synthetics can go 10/12K without issue but that's stretching std oils...
Of course how you drive and engine condition are major players, highway miles and a tight engine with little blowby is easy on the oil... If a engine has ring seal problems, the blowby does break down the oil much faster but if you're adding a quart every 1200-1500miles it's mostly offset...
Tom, I'm pretty hard on the Mounty...it's got over 200K, and I drive on gravel..errrr, dirt roads a lot. Every time I change the oil, it's black as anyway. Still, the engine seems strong, no blue smoke, or leaks, etc. It's a 5.0, have no idea if it's ever been rebuilt or replaced. But it gets abused, that's why I change the oil in it monthly, the 25 or so I spend on filter and syn are worth it...cheap insurance. ;)
The Tbird, on the other hand, despite only being driven in my hayfield and down the road a mile or so once a month has only ever had the oil changed in it once...that was when i put the HO in it in 2009.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on April 08, 2013, 12:51:49 PM
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;412863
You had better check that again. ATF is HIGHLY detergent added, oil is almost not at all. Ever seen a dirty valve body? Especially considering the metals and clutch material shedding that you get under normal operation in a trans. Ever seen a sludged up trans? I haven't. The detergent packages are the biggest difference between ATF's of different types, that and the viscosity, but typically most ATF's are 30w.
Nope not so... A valve body doesn't get dirty because there is no combustion contamination(mostly carbon) present in the oil to break it down, so the detergent isn't needed...
Don't believe me??? Head over to Bob is the oil guy and hit em with that one, those guys live for a used oil or lube buttstuffysis...
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on April 08, 2013, 01:24:34 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;412871
Nope not so... A valve body doesn't get dirty because there is no combustion contamination(mostly carbon) present in the oil to break it down, so the detergent isn't needed...
Don't believe me??? Head over to Bob is the oil guy and hit em with that one, those guys live for a used oil or lube buttstuffysis...
I read your forum, you are still wrong. You seem to have a problem with selective reading/memory. The detergent levels of newer ATF types are very much lower than Type F. I am willing to concede that it's effectiveness is probably more related to it's dispersants holding more contaminants in suspension than motor oil, but your statement that ATF contains no detergents is 100% incorrect. Good day sir.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: Aerocoupe on April 08, 2013, 03:07:06 PM
In all honesty I think you two are arguing the same point but its the terminology that is getting you. The ATF has dispersants in it and motor oil has detergents in it. The key here is the definition of the two and what they actually do in their specific application.
So a basic definition of the two is as follows: A detergent is a cleansing substance that acts similarly to soap but is made from chemical compounds rather than fats and lye. A dispersant is a liquid or gas added to a mixture to promote dispersion or to maintain dispersed particles in suspension.
Now for a better explanation of how they are used in high grade lubricants:
Detergent - Prevent acids of combustion from corroding engine parts, keep lubricant oxidation and thermal degradation products from forming varnish deposits on engine surfaces, and prevent sludge and particles from precipitating onto engine surfaces. Source - https://www.oronite.com/products/detergents.asp
Dispersant - Diffuse sludge, carbon, soot, oxidation products, and other deposit precursors which result in reduced deposit formation, less oil oxidation, and less viscosity increase. Source - https://www.oronite.com/products/dispersants.asp I'm not going to jump off into this with either one of you so hopefully you can do some light reading and regroup. Other than that I will hide and see how this comes out...:popcorn:
Darren
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on April 08, 2013, 04:15:42 PM
It's not really worth it to me to make a bigger spectacle.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TOM Renzo on April 08, 2013, 06:52:27 PM
Time to settle this with a PHOTO. This engine had 30K on it and the customer failed to change his oil every 5K or 3 months. Notice the sludge on the crank cheeks.
So pay me for a new engine and keep, on ignoring those 5K oil changes. Very surprised by the posts on this subject. So pay me now for oil changes or pay me later. for an engine!!!
By the way none of my high performance engines have dip sticks!!!!!!
Anyone that runs oils past 3 months or 5 K is playing with fire just me ..
Fact: Havoline does not recommend extending oil drain intervals beyond the “severe service” maintenance interval of three months or 3,000 miles, whichever comes first. Also, we are unaware of any automobile manufacturer in the United States that currently recognizes using any synthetic oil beyond the recommended oil change intervals outlined in their owner’s manual. We emphasize severe service since the majority of motor vehicles are operated in severe driving conditions such as short trips (under 10 miles), dusty or sandy conditions, cold weather, extended idling periods, trailer towing or other harsh conditions. Under ideal conditions, however, such as a dust-free climate, highway driving, light loads, perfect engine performance, etc., the oil drain interval may be extended to the vehicle manufacturer’s recommended “normal service” period (generally between 3,000 to 7,500 miles). Contamination by normal wear particles, water, fuel, and other combustion by-products, as well as additive depletion, are the main reasons for changing conventional oils on a regular basis. Synthetic oils are equally susceptible to this problem. The only way to remove these contaminants is to change the oil and filter within manufacturers’ recommended intervals.
Fact: ATF does not contain detergent chemistry. ATF does contain dispersants, which have properties similar to detergents. But ATF is not formulated to withstand the combustion environment inside the engine. Havoline recommends that you keep the fluids where they belong: motor oil in the crankcase, and automatic transmission fluid in the transmission.
BY THE WAY oil must turn black. If it does not it is not working properly. Easiest way to explain this is when you wash your hands. The dirt is transferred from your hands to the watter and soap and it goes down the drain. Same with oil. It suspends the dirt and when you drain it it comes out of the engine. Change your oil or pay the big bucks. Just my $.02
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on April 09, 2013, 09:51:10 AM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;412897
Time to settle this with a PHOTO. This engine had 30K on it and the customer failed to change his oil every 5K or 3 months. Notice the sludge on the crank cheeks.
So pay me for a new engine and keep, on ignoring those 5K oil changes. Very surprised by the posts on this subject. So pay me now for oil changes or pay me later. for an engine!!!
By the way none of my high performance engines have dip sticks!!!!!!
Anyone that runs oils past 3 months or 5 K is playing with fire just me ..
Fact: Havoline does not recommend extending oil drain intervals beyond the “severe service” maintenance interval of three months or 3,000 miles, whichever comes first. Also, we are unaware of any automobile manufacturer in the United States that currently recognizes using any synthetic oil beyond the recommended oil change intervals outlined in their owner’s manual. We emphasize severe service since the majority of motor vehicles are operated in severe driving conditions such as short trips (under 10 miles), dusty or sandy conditions, cold weather, extended idling periods, trailer towing or other harsh conditions. Under ideal conditions, however, such as a dust-free climate, highway driving, light loads, perfect engine performance, etc., the oil drain interval may be extended to the vehicle manufacturer’s recommended “normal service” period (generally between 3,000 to 7,500 miles). Contamination by normal wear particles, water, fuel, and other combustion by-products, as well as additive depletion, are the main reasons for changing conventional oils on a regular basis. Synthetic oils are equally susceptible to this problem. The only way to remove these contaminants is to change the oil and filter within manufacturers’ recommended intervals.
Fact: ATF does not contain detergent chemistry. ATF does contain dispersants, which have properties similar to detergents. But ATF is not formulated to withstand the combustion environment inside the engine. Havoline recommends that you keep the fluids where they belong: motor oil in the crankcase, and automatic transmission fluid in the transmission.
BY THE WAY oil must turn black. If it does not it is not working properly. Easiest way to explain this is when you wash your hands. The dirt is transferred from your hands to the watter and soap and it goes down the drain. Same with oil. It suspends the dirt and when you drain it it comes out of the engine. Change your oil or pay the big bucks. Just my $.02
What you've stated is no doubt true, but the Euro mfrs are now recommending changes of 15K mi or more using synthetic... Many of the puppiesanese mfrs are going to 10K mi using 0W-20, which is only available as a synthetic..
As far as Havoline now recommending anything, they've been long sucked up by Chevron, don't have anything to say these days...
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TOM Renzo on April 09, 2013, 01:24:42 PM
MOBIL 1 !!
Oil change intervals can be as short as 3,000 miles or as long 15,000 miles on some new cars. We recommend that you follow the oil and filter change frequencies shown in your owner's manual, especially under the warranty period. With Mobil 1´s high-performance reserves, you can have the confidence to go the full mileage or timeframe recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. Mobil 1 is especially suitable for the latest vehicles with extended drain intervals or vehicles with oil monitoring systems that vary oil drain intervals.
Oil change intervals can be as short as 3,000 miles or as long 15,000 miles on some new cars. We recommend that you follow the oil and filter change frequencies shown in your owner's manual, especially under the warranty period. With Mobil 1´s high-performance reserves, you can have the confidence to go the full mileage or timeframe recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. Mobil 1 is especially suitable for the latest vehicles with extended drain intervals or vehicles with oil monitoring systems that vary oil drain intervals.
For some engineers and mechanics, 5,000 miles is too long .
Drivers must take the weather and how much freeway driving they do into account before deciding when to change their oil, said Danny Beiler, part owner of an auto repair garage in Sarasota, Fla.
Freeway driving is less harmful to oil than driving in the city, but in Sarasota, the heat places nearly all cars under severe driving conditions that warrant more frequent changes, Beiler said.
"I have a problem with telling people 7,000 because you know they're going to go over that. I'd rather err on the side of being cautious and tell them to do it early."
Dewey Szemenyei, marketing manager for passenger car motor oil additives for Afton Chemical Corp., said he still changes the oil in his 1998 Toyota Sienna minivan every 3,000 miles.
"I really feel it's great insurance," said Szemenyei, whose company makes additives that go into motor oils and who chairs a Society of Automotive Engineers committee on engine lubrication.
"There's not what I consider a right answer. However, if you go with the owner's manual recommendation you should in general not have any problems," he said.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: Masejoer on April 09, 2013, 01:40:03 PM
It depends on a lot of factors. If you send samples in for buttstuffysis, you can then decide how far your specific motor can go on a specific oil. Quality oils have done standard "everyday" service for 2 years/25k miles and still have had life left in them. The filters should be changed much sooner, but the oils can continue to lubricate and clean for a long time if the engine allows it. Dilution with contaminants such as fuel will depend largely on the engine, and tune.
I figure if people are easily doing 20k+ miles on an oil, I can run the same oil for 10k safely, with two filter changes in there. I have yet to send any sample in for buttstuffysis, but I also expect to do under 3k/every 2 years changes now. I have boxes of oil and filters for the next couple decades of oil changes at this rate.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: Thunder Chicken on April 09, 2013, 05:11:59 PM
Motor oil turns black from byproducts of combustion. It's soot, plain and simple. This is why diesel oil turns black almost instantly (lots of soot). Gasoline produces soot too (see the inside of your tailpipe for evidence). A propane-fueled engine produces almost no soot at all, and at 5k the oil will look much like it does when new. I have seen this effect personally (the clean oil in propane engines).
According to an Imperial Oil engineer I'd talked to several years ago conventional oil breaks down whether it turns black or not. Any type of fossil fuel produces water when burned, and that water forms acids in the oil, but the main reason this engineer gave me was that the molecules in conventional oil actually get wrenched apart by shear loading in an engine. Additives in the oil help prevent this but the additives eventually get used up. Modern conventional oil is much better at resisting this breakdown, but it still breaks down. Synthetic is better still, but it will eventually break down as well. There are different grades of synthetics as well. European manufacturers require "Euro" synthetics (the oil will say "European formula" on the label, and will list the specs it meets, such as VW 502.00). This type of oil has a high resistance to shearing (the type of wear you'd find on a flat tappet cam), and is the best oil to use in older engines. Cheaper synthetics or synthetic blends (IE non-Euro) are still better than conventionals, but the best is Euro.
As another engineer told me recently: When in doubt, go with Euro. These are the highest quality synthetics and are good for older engines with flat tappet cams. I run Euro in my Sonata because it has a direct injection engine. The mechanical fuel pump places a very high shear load on the cam. Hyundai doesn't require synthetic, but it gives me peace of mind on a car I'm making payments on. In the Dakota I run anything that's slippery (don't care about the engine in it, blowing it up would give me the excuse to drop a V8 in). I run cheaper synthetic in the pimpmobile just because I only change the oil once a year in that, just before putting it away for the winter
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: BLKBRD88 on April 09, 2013, 07:48:07 PM
I could never subscribe to this long term & many miles theory of changing oil. I feel that it should be ignored by the turbo Coupe group no matter how our turbo cars are used.
2500 miles or at the end of the season, which ever comes first for me on every vehicle.
But then, that is just my $.02 Ron
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TOM Renzo on April 09, 2013, 09:34:25 PM
Quote from: BLKBRD88;412963
I could never subscribe to this long term & many miles theory of changing oil. I feel that it should be ignored by the turbo Coupe group no matter how our turbo cars are used.
2500 miles or at the end of the season, which ever comes first for me on every vehicle.
But then, that is just my $.02 Ron
Totally agree as i am willing to bet most people do not understand that the DIZZY SHAFT AND GEARS in a 2.3 is fed with AN UN-FILTERED OIL SUPPLY. And if oil changes are ignored or extended on these engines the dizzy and aux shaft will be history. just saying!!
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: Haystack on April 09, 2013, 11:19:06 PM
I've tried to blow up my engine on my past 4 cars by not changing the oil with no luck so far.this included waiting for the lifters to make noise before adding a single quart. dropping the trans into first randomly on the.highway and bouncing off.the rev limited.for miles at a time. I think I've done 10oil changes since I was 16. and I beat the living cap out of my cars. if your throwing main bearing at less.then 30k, the problem is probably a lack of oil rather then the quality of oils and additives used.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TOM Renzo on April 10, 2013, 05:18:59 AM
Quote from: Haystack;412987
I've tried to blow up my engine on my past 4 cars by not changing the oil with no luck so far.this included waiting for the lifters to make noise before adding a single quart. dropping the trans into first randomly on the.highway and bouncing off.the rev limited.for miles at a time. I think I've done 10oil changes since I was 16. and I beat the living cap out of my cars. if your throwing main bearing at less.then 30k, the problem is probably a lack of oil rather then the quality of oils and additives used.
WOW I AM LOST FOR WORDS !!!!!! Nothing i can think of can answer this post. Well maybe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: Beau on April 10, 2013, 12:53:15 PM
Quote from: Haystack;412987
I've tried to blow up my engine on my past 4 cars by not changing the oil with no luck so far.this included waiting for the lifters to make noise before adding a single quart. dropping the trans into first randomly on the.highway and bouncing off.the rev limited.for miles at a time. I think I've done 10oil changes since I was 16. and I beat the living cap out of my cars. if your throwing main bearing at less.then 30k, the problem is probably a lack of oil rather then the quality of oils and additives used.
But I guess swapping a T5 into your car is pretty important, but not engine oil?
My dad has an '89 F truck, 5.0, manual trans, 4x4, etc. Always been taken care of. He maintains his stuff really well. Anyway, I started driving it in 2006, was hauling some square bales of hay in the back....gradually, over a period of several months, the oil pressure continued to drop. Would clatter at idle. Had the proper amount of oil in the pan. Either the pump died, or the bearings were so worn out that it wouldn't keep enough pressure....but anyway, that goes to show that even with proper oil change intervals, and great maintenance, sometimes things don't last. Ford, Chevy, Briggs & Stratton, or whatever flavor of fossil fuel power maker you prefer....with shiznit maintenance habits, most likely you'll be afoot. I learned when I was 16. Blew the oil pressure gauge feed line off on my ancient Jeep truck. Instead of parking it and walking the mile or so back home to get the other Jeep, I just turned around and drove it. The rods and mains were complaining when I shut it off. I rebuilt it in school, and worked the cost of the parts off the following summer, for my dad. Nowadays, if I break my shiznit, I walk. With kids to haul around, I can't afford it, so I try to take care of stuff.
And for people that deliberately try to blow their up...it's one of two things: you're either a spoiled rich kid, or a f*ckin' dumbass. Little doubt here which is which in this case..
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 13, 2013, 11:04:34 AM
Well the Thunderbird gets driven between 1000-1500 miles a year so I usually just change the oil and filter in the spring and that's it. So basically I change the oil in the spring, drive it all summer, put it away in the fall, and then change the oil the following spring. I've been running Mobile 1 10W-30 and a Motorcraft FL-1A filter for years on this schedule with no ill effects.
On the DDs I just follow the sever schedule for oil changes. On the Focus that's every 6K and the Mustang is every 7K or when the dash sensor tells you it's time for an oil change. I run synthetics and a Mortorcraft filter in both so it's probably overkill.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: Haystack on April 13, 2013, 12:43:40 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;413011
But I guess swapping a T5 into your car is pretty important, but not engine oil?
My dad has an '89 F truck, 5.0, manual trans, 4x4, etc. Always been taken care of. He maintains his stuff really well. Anyway, I started driving it in 2006, was hauling some square bales of hay in the back....gradually, over a period of several months, the oil pressure continued to drop. Would clatter at idle. Had the proper amount of oil in the pan. Either the pump died, or the bearings were so worn out that it wouldn't keep enough pressure....but anyway, that goes to show that even with proper oil change intervals, and great maintenance, sometimes things don't last. Ford, Chevy, Briggs & Stratton, or whatever flavor of fossil fuel power maker you prefer....with shiznit maintenance habits, most likely you'll be afoot. I learned when I was 16. Blew the oil pressure gauge feed line off on my ancient Jeep truck. Instead of parking it and walking the mile or so back home to get the other Jeep, I just turned around and drove it. The rods and mains were complaining when I shut it off. I rebuilt it in school, and worked the cost of the parts off the following summer, for my dad. Nowadays, if I break my shiznit, I walk. With kids to haul around, I can't afford it, so I try to take care of stuff.
And for people that deliberately try to blow their up...it's one of two things: you're either a spoiled rich kid, or a f*ckin' dumbass. Little doubt here which is which in this case..
The t-5 was specifically so that I could drive my car on the freeway 900+ miles to a small town less then 20 miles from the canadian border for work. I'm not a rich kid, I've had to work my ass off for every penny I've ever touched. Otherwise I wouldn't be driving a 200k $400 car half way acrossed the country.
I'll bet I've put over 160k miles on my own personal vehicles, all 5.0's. (And only maybe 5k on my current vehicle in the last month) in the last 4 years. Trying to blow any one of them up so that I could use my mustang engine that's been sitting in the garage since 2006. Its ready to go and already been run. At the time I pulled it out, the car I put it in ate the tranny.
Guess I'm just a dumbass for driving my car more in a month then most of our members drive in the time they own their cars.
Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've had 4 or 5 cars well over 200k that I beat the shiznit out of, and not one of them ate the engine.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: JKATHRE on April 14, 2013, 12:10:56 AM
I was not expecting much interest on this subject, but one hears soooo many words of advice on oil changes from the experts these days...and of course, there are more oil choices to deal with. Nothing can be simple anymore. Maybe that's what has happened to us all in the last 50 years. Just 40 years ago, most of the vehicles on the road here were domestic and it was simple to eyeball and ID most of them just by shape. I have never had any serious problems with engines, but then, I am not a road jock either--more like the "Little Old Lady." I'll keep an eye on the oil situation and maybe move up my schedule as I would definitely not have the '88 T-Bird go astray now! At this point in time, it is a low mileage situation with 126K on the clock.
JR
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: jpc647 on April 15, 2013, 01:25:11 PM
Quote from: Haystack;413202
The t-5 was specifically so that I could drive my car on the freeway 900+ miles to a small town less then 20 miles from the canadian border for work. I'm not a rich kid, I've had to work my ass off for every penny I've ever touched. Otherwise I wouldn't be driving a 200k $400 car half way acrossed the country.
I'll bet I've put over 160k miles on my own personal vehicles, all 5.0's. (And only maybe 5k on my current vehicle in the last month) in the last 4 years. Trying to blow any one of them up so that I could use my mustang engine that's been sitting in the garage since 2006. Its ready to go and already been run. At the time I pulled it out, the car I put it in ate the tranny. .
Why try to blow it up? Why not just do the swap? Plenty of people would buy the engine, or the heads, etc off of whatever is in your current car. Re-coup some money? If money's tight, why wreck something someone else can use.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: Haystack on April 15, 2013, 01:47:01 PM
someone is going to drive to Utah to pick up engine parts off of a 200k motor? I don't see that happening. outside of the wiring harness, when was the last time you saw someone selling something off of a s.o. motor and make any money?
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: Haystack on April 15, 2013, 01:52:09 PM
and getting back on subject, my dad has a 91ish e-250. he bought it with about 30k on it. he changes his oil frequently, but hit motor is already worn out, has constant top end noise until its warm and eats a quart or two of oil a tank. I believe its at about 90k now.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TOM Renzo on April 16, 2013, 05:59:51 PM
Stacks you would hate getting a performance engine from me.
NO DIPSTICKS.
DIP STICKS ARE Not an option on my engines and never will be. You would go NUTS FOR SURE!!!
But blowing up an engine. I DON'T GET IT!!! Maybe i am missing something here???
By the way stacks tell your dad not to feel bad. Most new TOYOTA'S SUBARU HONDA and AUDI cars burn a QUART EVERY 500 Miles. And they say this is normal!!!
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on April 16, 2013, 07:26:55 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;413378
Stacks you would hate getting a performance engine from me.
NO DIPSTICKS.
DIP STICKS ARE Not an option on my engines and never will be. You would go NUTS FOR SURE!!!
But blowing up an engine. I DON'T GET IT!!! Maybe i am missing something here???
By the way stacks tell your dad not to feel bad. Most new TOYOTA'S SUBARU HONDA and AUDI cars burn a QUART EVERY 500 Miles. And they say this is normal!!!
Ford says it's max allowable for warranty is 1 quart in 900 miles.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TOM Renzo on April 16, 2013, 10:32:49 PM
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;413379
Ford says it's max allowable for warranty is 1 quart in 900 miles.
This oil usage is something NEW and we found out WHY!!! Makes me wonder what the hell is going on. A quart in 900 is outrageous to say the least!!!!!
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on April 17, 2013, 06:46:30 AM
It is, but Ford warranty won't pay for engine work to address oil consumption until you're using more that that.
Title: Oil Change routines
Post by: TOM Renzo on April 17, 2013, 03:12:58 PM
That sucks. So i guess along with CAFE regs they should include OIL USAGE. What a crock of BS. Any engine that uses that much oil has an ISSUE plain and simple!!!