Everyone that works on fords knows what this is. But how to fix it. Here is what i do and my guys think it SUCKS. Please tell me your thoughts and what you guys do to salvage oil pans. Lay it on me and if this is BOGUS i will change it. Thanks
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Remove the busted thread adapter
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I hog out the hole and install a pipe reducer and braze it in.
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Then i install it and braze in in place
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Brazed in place and a pipe plug to drain the oil in the future.
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My son and my guys tell me this is BOGUS AND NOT PROFESSIONAL. Thoughts guys and do not hold back Thanks Tom
Thats exactly what I have done in the past.
Thank you as my guys are busting my BUTT.
The local machine shop here has some weld in pipe bungs that work really well. They have less threaded area but they do not protrude so far into the pan and mig weld on very well. Same idea, different materials.
Body man i agree 100% I can also use a different insert like a 3/4 to 1/8 pipe reducer drill and tap it for a chev O Ring drain plug. Like you say just different but the same results. My guys are bashing me because they think it is CHEESY. Thoughts???
Also this pan is obsolete!!! Or i would have bought a new one. But it will have had the same py thread arrangement that always fails. Thanks
Doesn't matter how cheesy someone thinks a repair is, especially if they don't have a better solution. Hard to argue with fixed.
Thanks Body Man. That is what i told them.
hey, I drilled a hole and installed a bolt-on drain plug in my AOD pan..... never even thought about brazing one in
Looks good to me. Tell your guys to get bent.
Well thanks Vinny. I will do that tomorrow!!
I was actually considering changing the design using a Chevy O ring drain plug as i said above. But i think i am going to let it stay the way it is. Thanks
I have to agree with the other fellers here..if it works, then f*ck off to the naysayers. Beats paying 100 bucks and then some for a new pan, that will, as you say, go bad in the same ed way.
I guess if they're upset that much, throw a coat of paint over it to hide the brazed areas...:confused:
It depends on the vehicle, situation and customer to what's acceptable and what's not. Just a guess but you probably wouldn't do that repair to somebody's prize possesion, but to a work truck or daily driver, why not, it's a good repair. I wouldn't be too hard on the guys. It's great to have employees and co-workers who want to do the best job possible always. They just need to understand that sometimes the situation calls for something that will work even if it is not just so, or the customer only wants to spend X amount and will be thrilled with a good repair that will last, even if it doesn't look exactly factory.
You do have a great point..one I overlooked. If I had a nice built engine in my Sport, I'd rather have the latter pic as opposed to the first in my case.. ;)
but on the other side of it... your prize showcar can also have a ton of patches welded on it, and covered up with filler and paint.... I say its up to the customer
In my case, function would override form, especially since our pans need help in the "do not leak oil, bitch" area...LOL.
Good points guys. Thanks for the response. This pan is obsolete. So buying a new one is out. A lot of the early 5.0 pans had this issue. I have actually repaired several right in the car. People have different outlooks on repairs as stated above. Removing a 5.0 pan sucks and is big bucks. So a quick repair in the car works for many. Naturally i am going to paint this pan. Has anyone repaired a pan in the car. I have and i am always afraid one will blow up in flames. But i never had one do that. Just a talking point!!
Well, it certainly isn't pretty, but if pretty isn't what you're going for, tell you guys that form follows function. I put a drain plug in my trans pan using an o-ringed drain plug and I put the bolt on the inside, and tacked it with 3 spot welds. It looks good, but there's just a little bit of fluid that's not going to be able to come out.
UGLY is correct FOE!!! And i spent all my life making cars PRETTY. Or should i say NASTY. And that plug is UGLY. So i am thinking i am going to change it. But then again WHY??? So confusing that is why i posted it. Be it as it may i need to sleep on this. My head mechanic thinks it looks like and he any some of you guys agree. Well i need to think about this over a BEER and a Burger. Thanks Guys!!
weld on them all the time no issues
Sleeper what i do is drain all the oil and let it sit overnight with the plug out of course. Then i install one of those repair kits that the plug in the center. You know what i mean. It has a screw in the middle. Then i started to use the pipe reducers thinking they were better. Some say they are some say NO GOOD. Then i braze it in to the pan. Loads of smoke from the engine and shaking in my boots every time i do it. But remember the older 302 drain plugs that used to strip all the time. They had the same setup as the pan i posted. The insert was to hard and used to SPLIT as i posted. The only other way to fix it was replace the pan with an UP DATED UNIT. Easier said than dun in a Fofd T Bird or Stang. I used to remove the K frame to do this. So what to do with this pan as it is the pan for the MIDNIGHTER. Ok time to decide before i button the Midnighters new engine UP. What a revolting development i am in!!!!
It seems to me that only the road is going to see it, and if the road doesn't like how it looks, I'm almost certain it will keep it to itself.
GOOD point FOE!!
Question for ya. Is it a really nice car, one that mostly sees show events, or is it a driver that gets beat on daily?
How many judges get under a car to look at the drain plug?
How many oil spots do you like in your garage/driveway/parking spot.
Function over form. Give it a shot of good black paint, and enjoy your burger and brew. I wouldn't think twice about it on mine, but then, my stuff isn't exactly show worthy, but I have a boxer that marks his stops everywhere he goes...my Bird doesn't need to follow suit.
Good point 302. Mostly the guys just want to bust my BALLS on this one. I have repaired many a CAT for this issue. As the nut inside the pans are tack welded from the factory and has a nasty habit of breaking loose. So thought about it laughed about it and forgot about it and will install the pan AS IS!!
I would take a 3/4" npt coupling and cut it in half. Either mig or tig only because its stonger than a brazed joint. Otherwise nice repair!
Kinda makes one wonder why the OEMs didn't do it like that stock.
lets consider the melting point of brass and compare that to the engines capability of achieving that mark.
Good work Tom, at least your doing something that works for this problem.
my son has an issue with the drain plug now. hes currently running an oversized plug. For some reason no one at the parts box stores know what im talking about when i describe the very repair kit you described.
Does anyone know what a "PEM NUT" is? google it. They are called "PEM" fasteners and ***are*** the solution if you can crack the code on how make them work. in thier root form, they will work and leak unless you figure out how to flair the oposite reduced side.
i would love to know how i can use a pemnut , insert the slightly reduced end up into the pan and then flair it out without taking the pan off the car.
An example of my pemnut was a lugage rack that went on my wifes old kia sportage, it came with roof top anchors. they were threaded on the inside and smooth on the outside. you drill a hole, drop them in and then per the instructions, usng a nut and a bolt in a certain way, you end up flairing the anchor so it kina rivits in place. take out your bolt and nut and there you are looking at a threaded anchor point.
in this example too much of the anchor would stick up into the pan and you would never drain all the oil... the "PEM NUT" would fix that.
here is one of many examples but i know it will get the best of us thinking
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pem-Self-Clinching-Nuts-S-0518-3-Clinch-nut-5-16-18-x-413-per-thousand-/140741032010?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D300801502441%26ps%3D54
I see these all the time in copper power buss work, they exist on many ILine breakers or in High current DC power systems.
humm, taking a little time and i did find the blind PEM nuts interesting.
http://www.pemnet.com/fastening_products/nuts_for_sheetmetal.html
so i wonder if these can be used for our troubles we are speaking to.
theres gotta be a tool out there that can be inserted inside the PEM fastener such that it allows a locking nut / threaded rod or bolt installation process to flair it out.
now this would be a permanent and professional fix for pennies on the dollar with no welding required,, shop savings !
wow,
I just found exactly what is the fix.
http://catalog.pemnet.com/viewitems/all-metal-locking-thread-nuts-types-lk-lka-lks/-self-clinching-fasteners-types-lk-lka-lks-unified?&bc=100|1039|1196|1051|1250
-Add a sealing washer( would suggest a banjo fitting washer (brass) or even a high temp plastic washer)
-stuff this in oil pan hole
-start your bolt in the hole
-add a wrench to keep the "PEMFLEX" anchor still
-use a socket to finish installing the bolt
-remove bolt completly out and the PEMFLEX nut is set and ready to be your new drain hole.
-the bolt you used to set the PEMFLEX anchor now becomes your drain plug
it flairs out as you install the bolt,, thier write up is correct,, very simple
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here we go
pulled some basic info out on the PemFlex fastener
im starting to think ..pop an oring on this and install.
basically this is the very opposite concept of what we see in the box stores with respect to the "oversized oil drain plugs" where they are tapered and machined at 90deg intervals on thier lateral, split down the sides.
this would be the reverse negative of that conceptual engineering.
Jay we use those fasteners from time to time. BUT!!! They are not designed for pans as they can leak i was told?? With that everyone that has an older ford suffers from a stripped drain plug. This is common and i have fixed several in my career. Like i explained i used to replace the pan and found out that the OIL CHANGE MONKEYS would just strip them out again. So i came up with the pipe reducer. Also i use a steel adapter and a brass plug. Been very good from what i can tell you guys. But it is BUTT ASS UGLY. So next time i am going to do it differently.
i disagree because that perception means that things designed for an application never are going to work for another application, not disagreeing with you but with what your hearing. I am sure you agree with that because you creatively break this golden rule often enough and send working systems out the door pretty much every week.
its designed for sheet metal which the pan is made of, a leather gasket or o ring could be added prior to installing. I am just speculating and if you have not used it yet for this application, it may be worth a try,, its gotta be a "snug" fit prior to expaning the anchor. I was thinking of adding some sort of hi-temp sealant on the PemFlex anchor fitting as well.
who knows........ you may be right and it will leak,, maybe not but........ my point is not about that.
My point was finding a product that "provides or replaces a threaded hole machined into sheet metal" and this product does that.
I can see what your saying though, i would do my best to take precautions.
I'll shop for a min order qty and try one out on my son's car later on, hopefuly i remember to update you on how it worked out.
Tom's repair looks fine to me... a little bit of paint and it would look factory, and only the fussiest of people would even notice, much less care. Tell the ones that WOULD care what would be involved in a different type of repair (higher costs, possible downtime for the vehicle while waiting for unattainable parts, etc) for minimal if any benefit and they'd likely come around to your way of thinking. Might matter on a concours-type restoration, but on anything that's actually driven it's fine. Stronger repair than the original, far less likely to leak. The only question I'd have is what was used for the drain plug. If it's a normal pipe plug it might pose problems as they have to be sealed with teflon tape or something similar. If a bolt with a plastic or copper washer , or one of those GM style plugs with the rubber o-ring/gasket thing can be used it'd be perfect...
Exactly thunder. Next time i am going to use a pipe reducer lets say 1/2 / 1/8 and drill and tap the small hole for a GM O RING plug. Seems like we are on the same page. You are correct that the pipe plug needs some sealer. The guys are bugging me about that aspect of the repair. Also here is another place i use them. The GM 10.5" floating axle final drives burn out outer axle bearings. They have a nasty habit of blocking the fluid from getting to the outer bearing set. SOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! I drill a hole in the cover and move the fill mark UP app 1" This allows the oil to seep out to the bearings. You can also use this for a drain plug or d fill plug repair on a final drive that has a stripped fill plug on a final drive axle. Some guys do not clean out the fill plug in the side of the rear and strip the square end of the plug and cant get it out. Just another scenario. Thanks
Example!
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