Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Suspension/Steering => Topic started by: BlueBird1987 on January 17, 2013, 11:56:19 PM

Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: BlueBird1987 on January 17, 2013, 11:56:19 PM
87 TBIRD TC. I'm looking at replacing the shocks and struts on it, they're all very very worn. Couple questions. 1: is it worth keeping the ride adjustment? If it is, what's a good specific shock? If not, what's a good shock in general to have on this car? Same goes for struts.

PS: I don't know jack about suspension. My friend does tons of suspension work and has done it on all sorts of cars and of different ages. I need some general advice here!
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: STANG8U on January 18, 2013, 12:06:35 AM
Just get some kyb's and call it a day


But Ike sure other people have different info to share


Also is the car lowerd ?
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: 50tbrd88 on January 18, 2013, 09:04:15 AM
If its stock height just go to your local parts store and see what name brands they have.  I used Monroe Sensatrac with my stock springs and was happy with them.

If you are lowered I'd look at KYB or Koni.  My car is lowered a tad (Steeda front springs, cut TC springs in rear) and I am using Koni "blues".  So far they are working great!
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: BlueBird1987 on January 18, 2013, 03:13:53 PM
My car is currently stock height. I'll check out the parts shop. I'm assuming it really doesn't matter to get the adjustable ride shocks?
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: QUICKSHIFT on January 18, 2013, 04:01:24 PM
Monroe Sensatracs here with a 1" lowered ride height.....handles great and still a good ride.
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: EricCoolCats on January 18, 2013, 04:42:45 PM
The PRC shocks and struts are no longer available. You won't find an electronic adjustable shock to fit your car.
You have really no choice but to go with a "standard" shock/strut.
All of the combos mentioned here will work well for you.
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: raven87 on January 19, 2013, 12:22:59 AM
Make sure to get the shims.They make up the difference to fit the spindles. Someone put struts on mine and did not use shims.A gap of .127" makes for a fun ride.
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: Aerocoupe on January 19, 2013, 12:21:27 PM
I had the KYB's on my 83 for years and they were really good.  I sold them to one of the guys here and I believe they are on his car and doing great.  With regards to the shims, this is necessary when installing the struts from a Fox car with the 10" front brakes onto a Fox car with 11" brakes.  The spindle (what you are mounting the strut to and the wheel is attached to) is narrower on the 11" brake cars versus the 10" brake cars.  From Maximum Motorsports site:

[COLOR="blue"]"Struts intended for the 1979-86 Mustang can be fitted to the 1987-93 V8 spindle with the addition of two fabricated spacer plates (0.115" thick each) to fill the gap between the spindle ear and the strut's mounting tabs. Depending upon the particular strut, the mounting holes may need to be slotted vertically to match the later spindle's greater hole spacing."[/COLOR]

Also from MM with regards to the 11" brake spindles:

[COLOR="blue"]- Mounting ear for the strut is 0.230" (5.9mm) thinner than the first generation spindle.
- Boltholes for the strut mounting are 0.130" (3.3mm) further apart than the first generation spindle.[/COLOR]

The first generation spindles are the ones for the smaller 10" brakes.

Just an FYI the 87-88 TC's have the same front spindles as the Fox 5.0 Mustangs.  You can use the SN95 (read 94-98 Mustang) front struts on your car with no issues.  This opens up the door to a lot more selection if you ever decide to put a good suspension under the car.  You can use the Fox or SN95 Mustang rear shocks (they are the same) if you get a set of Chuck W's (look up "Chuck W" here and you will find him) adapters.

Darren
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: 50tbrd88 on January 21, 2013, 09:02:21 AM
Quote
You can use the Fox or SN95 Mustang rear shocks (they are the same) if you get a set of Chuck W's (look up "Chuck W" here and you will find him) adapters.

Darren


Oops, I forgot to mention that I am running Koni shocks/struts for a Fox Mustang with Chuck W's adapters on the rear.
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: STANG8U on January 21, 2013, 01:55:05 PM
Fox mustang and SN mustang rear shocks are different lengths
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: 50tbrd88 on January 21, 2013, 04:00:28 PM
Quote
Fox mustang and SN mustang rear shocks are different lengths


If you are directing this at me, I was trying to clarify/making the point that I had to use Chuck W rear shock adapters in order to use Fox Mustang shocks.
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: STANG8U on January 21, 2013, 04:22:42 PM
Was not toward anyone just pointing out that they are different lengths


What dose that adapter do ?
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: thunderjet302 on January 22, 2013, 12:11:22 AM
Quote from: 50tbrd88;407365
If its stock height just go to your local parts store and see what name brands they have.  I used Monroe Sensatrac with my stock springs and was happy with them.

If you are lowered I'd look at KYB or Koni.  My car is lowered a tad (Steeda front springs, cut TC springs in rear) and I am using Koni "blues".  So far they are working great!

Quote from: QUICKSHIFT;407385
Monroe Sensatracs here with a 1" lowered ride height.....handles great and still a good ride.

Yep running Monroe Sensatracs on my Thunderbird as well. Rides great. A little firmer than stock but very smooth.
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: 50tbrd88 on January 22, 2013, 08:22:31 AM
Quote from: STANG8U;407643
Was not toward anyone just pointing out that they are different lengths


What dose that adapter do ?

 
Allow the use of fox mustang shocks.
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: BlueBird1987 on January 22, 2013, 03:23:28 PM
Would it be better to have a firmer ride?
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: Beau on January 22, 2013, 04:17:32 PM
Do YOU want a firmer ride?

It will handle a little better, but to get the most you'd want to upgrade bushings, springs, and swaybar endlinks.

Mine's pretty firm now, probably on the harsh side.
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: QUICKSHIFT on January 22, 2013, 08:24:49 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;407748

It will handle a little better, but to get the most you'd want to upgrade bushings, springs, and swaybar endlinks.
.
THAT is secret for handling AND  ride quality.
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: BlueBird1987 on January 23, 2013, 03:05:57 PM
I'd like better handling, but I also don't want to feel like I ran over a dog when I hit a bump in the road.
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: Beau on January 23, 2013, 10:32:02 PM
Really not a lot of middle ground. Ever see a Cadillac on a road course? lol (Don't say the LMP Dayton prototype..talking assembly line cars here lol)
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: STANG8U on January 23, 2013, 11:11:26 PM
V8 sway bars help a lot on a 4cyl car
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: Beau on January 23, 2013, 11:19:26 PM
Actually, on a Tbird, it's the 4 cyclinder car bars you'd want on the V8, lmfao.

The Sport's rear bar is the same as a TC, I *think*, but the TC front bar is bigger. I've got the TC bar on mine, direct fit, it's just thicker. (That's what SHE said.)

You can also use '94 + Mustang rear bars, obviously Cobra bars would be the thickest, but I think I read a post by ChuckW once that they were hollow. I may be wrong, I've forgotten so much stuff about these cars. I've had my TC swaybars on both of my last 2 'Birds...the Fox Mustang rear is a little bit different shape, but it still fits fine. I've got a couple laying around if you can't find one close...
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: STANG8U on January 23, 2013, 11:30:55 PM
My buddy runs a cobra bar on the back of his fox stang that puppy is stiff took 2 to get it on after I rebuilt his track loc lol

A v8 fox mustang bar is a lot thicker I have one to go on my TC when I lower it

I had a 4 banger notch with sportline springs aftermarket uppers and lowers when I added a v8 front bar it was on rails like a go cart
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: Aerocoupe on January 23, 2013, 11:35:49 PM
As far as I know the rear shocks on Fox Mustangs and SN95 Mustangs are the same length.  I talked it over with a Maximum Motorsports and Griggs dealer he pretty much said that if I was going with a stock style suspension then use the Fox units and if I was going to lower the car then use the SN95 as they have an internal bumpstop which works great with coil overs.  He road races and has Fox and SN95 cars so I have a tendency to believe him.  I have coil overs on all four corners on both my cars with Koni DA's and Griggs coil over kits and so far he was on the money.  The stock T-Bird rear shocks are much longer than the Mustang rears so that is why Chuck made the adapters which I have on my T-Bird and for the $$$ you cannot beat them!

With regards to the Fox and SN95 Mustangs the front struts are different in that the SN95 units are about an inch longer when compressed from lower mounting point to the upper mounting point when compared to the Fox units.  This is why with a T-Bird you would like to use an SN95 style strut on a stock or mildly dropped car and a Fox style strut on a car that is really lowered.  SN95 Mustangs typically utilize the Fox struts when they are lowered.  I have the Fox struts on my Bird as it is pretty low.

Daren
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: thunderjet302 on January 23, 2013, 11:57:57 PM
I've got a stock (1&1/8") LX front sway bar with poly bushings in the front of my T-bird and a Turbo Coupe bar in the rear. It holds the road great but it can be a bit tail happy if you hit the gas mid corner. That could have something to do with the engine though ;).

Along with the Sensatracs I've got new bushings in the front suspension. The T-bird has stock replacement strut mounts, poly sway bar bushings, balljoints, and 03-04 Cobra control arm bushings. It rides smooth but firm. It's not Lincoln Towncar floaty or track Mustang rattle your teeth out. It just has a nice, smooth, firm controlled ride.
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: STANG8U on January 24, 2013, 12:08:25 AM
Those are well known people

But just going off what I know the body's are different lengths and my SN guys run fox rear shocks on there lowerd SN's for this reson

I had a set of strange SN shocks for my fox and did not risk using them

But carry on before we high jack this thread
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: Aerocoupe on January 24, 2013, 12:48:04 PM
The fox shocks do not have the internal bump stop hence the additional compression which is why the SN95 guys run them on really low cars.

Darren
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: QUICKSHIFT on January 24, 2013, 02:31:53 PM
Don't forget the tires used come into this equation as well. A sport tire on a stock setup can ride like a truck as can stock tires on a firm suspension.....it's all in the combo of parts.
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: Beau on January 24, 2013, 05:53:29 PM
I just slapped some Nitto 555's on mine, have yet to cruise down the road with it, as I'm still figuring out whether I want to put some Cobra or mach springs under it, before I get new shocks and struts.

I bet it will be even rougher, but corner a little bit harder. Oh well, if i wanted a lincoln-like ride, I'd have a town car..lol
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: bird daddy on February 17, 2013, 08:25:55 AM
Quote from: EricCoolCats;407388
The PRC shocks and struts are no longer available. You won't find an electronic adjustable shock to fit your car.
You have really no choice but to go with a "standard" shock/strut.
All of the combos mentioned here will work well for you.

 
I have an '87 Turbocoupe with stock suspension- So I can use standard struts and shocks from an '87 V-8 or V-6 Thunderbird with out having to use any spacers or shims? Direct fit replacement? Thanks...john
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 17, 2013, 11:17:54 AM
Yes and no.  You have the 11" brakes up front which have the "narrow" strut attachment point where the 10" brake cars have the "wide" strut attachment point.  If you look on OReillys website and look at all the models offered in 1988 they all have the same part number for the front struts except the TC.  This was the same for the 1987 cars as well.  Without looking at them they may be the wide openings for all of them except the TC and if that is the case they usually come with shims.  If you are going to keep it stock then just get the ones for the TC and be done with it.

Darren
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: ianb on March 18, 2013, 02:35:33 PM
Quote from: 50tbrd88;407713
Allow the use of fox mustang shocks.


If u ran all 94 to 95 stuff IE-springs/struts/shocks would you still need to buy that Chuck adapter then?
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: Aerocoupe on March 18, 2013, 03:42:04 PM
Yes. The rear shocks are the same length for the 79/93 Fox cars and 94-95 cars. The 94-95 shocks have the bump stops built in where the Fox shocks do not.  So if you use the rear shocks for an SN95 car simply remove the Fox frame mounted bump stops.

Darren
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: ianb on March 18, 2013, 03:44:45 PM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;411384
Yes. The rear shocks are the same length for the 79/93 Fox cars and 94-95 cars. The 94-95 shocks have the bump stops built in where the Fox shocks do not.  So if you use the rear shocks for an SN95 car simply remove the Fox frame mounted bump stops.

Darren

 
:bowdown: Finally a clear and concise answer thank you so much! Will stock springs lower a Turbo Coupe from stock height? Or should I be looking for lowering springs for a SN95??
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: Aerocoupe on March 18, 2013, 10:18:55 PM
There are several guys on here that have lowered their cars with the SN95 springs.  The issue there is they have 5.0 motors like the SN95 cars so the springs work with those cars.  With a true 4 cylinder TC I would think the V8 SN95 springs would be a bit to much for the TC on the front and leave it really high.  Maybe the V6 springs would work?  Use the search function and see what you come up with as I am sure it has been covered on here before.

Darren
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: ianb on April 02, 2013, 10:51:02 AM
Has anyone looked into these http://www.racelandus.com/coilovers/ford-coilover-kits/ford-mustang-coilovers-1994-1998.html
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: Aerocoupe on April 02, 2013, 11:55:20 AM
Don't walk, run away from this setup.  With a 220 lb/in front rating and a 250 lb/in rear spring rating I would say that they have no idea how to correctly balance a suspension on any car let alone a Mustang.  Rule of thumb is 100 lb/in difference between the front and rear springs on a 5.0 Fox Mustang.  Read the Q&A on MM's site:

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=faq_coilover

So with that the coil over springs in their setup would have a wheel rate of 198 lb/in on the front and 125 lb/in on the rear.  The OEM stock spring rates for a '99-04 Mustang GT are 450 lb/in on the front and 210 lb/in on the rear.  From Maximum's calculations this gives the stock springs a wheel rate of 112.5 lb/in on the front and 105 lb/in in the rear.  The rear is close to stock but the fronts are waaaay off.

For reference I am running full coil overs on my Mustang with 325 lb/in up front and 200 lb/in in the rear.  The 125 lb/in difference is due to the torque arm and panhard bar in the rear per Maximum's suggestion.  The car is a blast to drive but it is stiffer on the street than my old H&R Sports conventional coil springs.  The Bird has full coil overs as well but is has a 351W so the fronts ended up being 400 lb/in and the rears are 250 lb/in due to the car being a bit heavier in the rear with the stereo, nitrous bottles and battery in the trunk.  So you can see that depending on what you are running and how the weight is distributed it can also affect the spring rates that you will need.

Do yourself a favor and just call Maximum and get an idea from them what you need to run.  From there stick with a known company that makes coil overs for the Mustangs and you will be fine.  I am running Griggs Racing coil over setups on my car as I got a better deal on them at the time.

Darren
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: ianb on April 02, 2013, 01:49:27 PM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;412408
Don't walk, run away from this setup.  With a 220 lb/in front rating and a 250 lb/in rear spring rating I would say that they have no idea how to correctly balance a suspension on any car let alone a Mustang.  Rule of thumb is 100 lb/in difference between the front and rear springs on a 5.0 Fox Mustang.  Read the Q&A on MM's site:

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=faq_coilover

So with that the coil over springs in their setup would have a wheel rate of 198 lb/in on the front and 125 lb/in on the rear.  The OEM stock spring rates for a '99-04 Mustang GT are 450 lb/in on the front and 210 lb/in on the rear.  From Maximum's calculations this gives the stock springs a wheel rate of 112.5 lb/in on the front and 105 lb/in in the rear.  The rear is close to stock but the fronts are waaaay off.

For reference I am running full coil overs on my Mustang with 325 lb/in up front and 200 lb/in in the rear.  The 125 lb/in difference is due to the torque arm and panhard bar in the rear per Maximum's suggestion.  The car is a blast to drive but it is stiffer on the street than my old H&R Sports conventional coil springs.  The Bird has full coil overs as well but is has a 351W so the fronts ended up being 400 lb/in and the rears are 250 lb/in due to the car being a bit heavier in the rear with the stereo, nitrous bottles and battery in the trunk.  So you can see that depending on what you are running and how the weight is distributed it can also affect the spring rates that you will need.

Do yourself a favor and just call Maximum and get an idea from them what you need to run.  From there stick with a known company that makes coil overs for the Mustangs and you will be fine.  I am running Griggs Racing coil over setups on my car as I got a better deal on them at the time.

Darren

Im sure this wont make a difference but I was thinking about them for my 88 Turbo Coupe..but after that detailed breakdown of science I think ill pass on these guys. Thanks for the detailed response.
Title: Shocks/struts
Post by: Aerocoupe on April 02, 2013, 04:29:13 PM
Call Maximum, they can get you all the info you need and the setup will be right.  You do not have to buy it from them just get the info and a quote.  For me, I go with the vendors you see lots of guys using.

I would buy the coil over kits and then hunt for some used springs as they can be had pretty cheap.  The biggest thing is figuring out what shocks and struts you want to use as that will determine which coil over kit to buy as they vary from one damper manufacturer to another.  Ask them if a set of 03-04 Cobra front struts will work because they are Bilstein HD's which MM makes a coil over kit for.  I found quite a few sets on EBay:

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/cobra-bilstein

The rears you might be able to find a set on any of the many Mustang sites but they will need to be for a solid axle car and preferably a 94-04 car except the 03-04 Cobra due to the IRS.

Darren