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Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: 88TC4lyfe on January 17, 2013, 11:34:20 PM

Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: 88TC4lyfe on January 17, 2013, 11:34:20 PM
Hey kind of new here,
I have a beautiful bone-stock 88 tc that I'm trying to put 3" exhaust on. (No cat, Cherrybomb ler, header down). But the shop I took it too said 3" wouldn't fit, 2.5" probably wouldn't either. my car is kind of low to the ground, but i've seen punks in hondas where the pipe is a hairs breadth from the asphalt and they do fine. (some of those "punks" are my friends lol). So does anyone here have some input?
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on January 18, 2013, 12:09:27 AM
Lots of guys here run a 3 inch single from Stinger (http://"http://www.stinger-performance.com/headerparts.html")
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: STANG8U on January 18, 2013, 12:15:28 AM
Yea I'm going to get a stinger my self
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 18, 2013, 06:43:00 PM
I custom build those exhausts all the time. 3" in to a CAT then back with 2 1/2 all the way past the axle. Don't use a ler . Use only a cat. If you use a ler you are going to loose HP & Torque. I have been building Coupes since they came out. Forget a ler it will cost you ponies. Other than if you want it super quiet that is. Installing a system that is to large will cost you ponies,

:burnout:
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: 88turbo on January 18, 2013, 06:50:01 PM
I had the stinger 3" to dual 2.5" on my silver TC no issues.  but mine was at stock ride height...  I will snap a pic of the exhaust.
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: 88turbo on January 18, 2013, 07:06:16 PM
here is what I have, it is the stinger 3" to dual 2.5" and flowmaster 40's

(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i143/88turbocoupe/IMG_20130118_175403_884.jpg)

and a short video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5noc9aQFBs
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: STANG8U on January 18, 2013, 07:50:01 PM
That sounds good


Makes me want to keep my flowmasters
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: BLeavitt23 on January 18, 2013, 08:23:18 PM
My bird is lowered with a 3" all the way to the rear with the Magnaflow straight-through ler and no cat - all from Stinger - all installed by me, in my garage.  I have no fitment issues or rubbing.  Kinda scared of speed bumps, but it's been on a year now and no issues.  Here's a short video I took (with the help of a co-worker) to show another guy how the system sounds:

http://s798.beta.photobucket.com/user/bleavitt23/media/video-2012-07-06-17-02-49.mp4.html
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: STANG8U on January 18, 2013, 09:31:46 PM
It won't let me view it

Do you have any you tube clips? That is the set up I'm leaning towards
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: BLeavitt23 on January 18, 2013, 09:52:40 PM
Dangit... I'm really starting to dislike Photobucket.  Ever since they updated the site, nothing works right.  I'll upload it to YouTube later tonight.
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: 88TC4lyfe on January 18, 2013, 10:16:09 PM
Quote from: BLeavitt23;407409
My bird is lowered with a 3" all the way to the rear with the Magnaflow straight-through ler and no cat - all from Stinger - all installed by me, in my garage.  I have no fitment issues or rubbing.  Kinda scared of speed bumps, but it's been on a year now and no issues.  Here's a short video I took (with the help of a co-worker) to show another guy how the system sounds:

http://s798.beta.photobucket.com/user/bleavitt23/media/video-2012-07-06-17-02-49.mp4.html

That thing sounds absolutely beautiful. Your setup was basically what I was going to put on mine. My honda friends taught me all about avoiding speed bumps lol, I think ill do it. :D
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: STANG8U on January 18, 2013, 10:39:15 PM
Quote from: BLeavitt23;407421
Dangit... I'm really starting to dislike Photobucket.  Ever since they updated the site, nothing works right.  I'll upload it to YouTube later tonight.

 Cool it could also be that I'm on my phone a lot of stuff dose not work right
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: BLeavitt23 on January 18, 2013, 11:54:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwkovjYkxX8&feature=youtu.be
FYI - Cell Phone video

And this is how the car sits:
(http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy270/bleavitt23/TC/2012-06-30094206.jpg)
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: 88TC4lyfe on January 19, 2013, 12:11:24 AM
Quote from: BLeavitt23;407439
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwkovjYkxX8&feature=youtu.be
FYI - Cell Phone video

And this is how the car sits:
(http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy270/bleavitt23/TC/2012-06-30094206.jpg)

Must be his phone cause it loaded up fine for me, but maaaan that thing is pretty  low, whats the drop on those springs?
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: BLeavitt23 on January 19, 2013, 01:18:05 AM
I went old school (read FREE)... cut roughly a coil and a quarter off the fronts, about an eighth of a coil off the rears, and lost the isolators all the way around.  I can't remember how much it dropped it.  This was a couple of years ago.  But what you see above was the result. :)
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: 88TC4lyfe on January 19, 2013, 02:18:23 AM
Quote from: BLeavitt23;407448
I went old school (read FREE)... cut roughly a coil and a quarter off the fronts, about an eighth of a coil off the rears, and lost the isolators all the way around.  I can't remember how much it dropped it.  This was a couple of years ago.  But what you see above was the result. :)

Lol nice, well it looks good. Hope you got shocks to compensate XD
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 19, 2013, 05:18:57 PM
OH shiznit HERE WE GO AGAIN


The Y and the duals are a killer for flow. That system is very restrictive. A single exhaust flows much better then the dual setup. Other than looks.  And a passion for 2 pipes out the tail a single system out performs the dual system hands down. Ok now you can pound me.
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 19, 2013, 05:36:25 PM
Hla issue!!!
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: 88TC4lyfe on January 19, 2013, 05:40:30 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;407484
OH shiznit HERE WE GO AGAIN


The Y and the duals are a killer for flow. That system is very restrictive. A single exhaust flows much better then the dual setup. Other than looks.  And a passion for 2 pipes out the tail a single system out performs the dual system hands down. Ok now you can pound me.

Lol I realize the whole exhaust topic has probably been done many times over so i'm sorry ;] . But yeah I totally agree, Dual exhaust is awesome for the v6's and the v8's. But I got a TC, I just want one fat pipe all the way to the end just like Bleavitt23.
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on January 19, 2013, 06:24:37 PM
Make sure you wrap the down-pipe. I'd run a highflow cat and a straight thru ler, single tail.
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: fordguy545 on January 19, 2013, 06:30:15 PM
I have 3" on all my turbocoupes.  two have 3" all the way back and the third is dual 2 1/2" out the back.  I havent found a whole lot of stingers stuff that fits to my liking, but still fits fine.  I don't have any cats and run nothing but Magnaflow lers.  Flowmasters are proven power robbers!  I actually have 2 different magnaflows on my autox car, and its still almost too loud to pass the 100db at 75' or so thats required at autox
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: 88TC4lyfe on January 19, 2013, 06:57:23 PM
Thanks for all the input guys! I always wrap my headers/exhaust, the extra bit of power IS noticable. But how about straight-through glasspacks? (I have a 3" cherrybomb just sitting around I was planning on throwing on there). Should I use it?
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on January 19, 2013, 07:51:35 PM
A cherry bomb is not a glasspack.  Its a resonator, and its loud as shiznit.  If you run glasspacks, make sure you pay attention to which way you install them.  One way will sound good, the other will sound loud as shiznit.  The turbo will quiet the exhaust somewhat, a glasspack will quiet the exhaust more than a magnaflow, but you may take a hit on flow.
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on January 19, 2013, 07:55:17 PM
You can try a dynomax ultraflow vxt, its straight through but it has a spring loaded redirect door in it.
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 19, 2013, 08:15:01 PM
FOE just for the record a ler even a HI  flow one robs HP. Yes running a CAT is the way too increase HP. I guess you have been to the Ford TECH schools. They teach you that in those courses. Have you been to them. Cats  makes more HP. Think about this why do the V engines connect each bank together at the engine pipe??? You know an X pipe !!! Same theory. But an INLINE does not like to much exhaust and no engine likes a ler . It robs HP. The CAT increases flow and by a good amount!! LOW CELL COUNT ONES, Modern ones i should say. Some cars are CAT ONLY FROM THE FACTORY. The Engineers know this now. Been messing with exhaust for years. lers rob HP. Other than noise or to pass an inspection i do not run lers.
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 19, 2013, 08:18:43 PM
Quote from: 88TC4lyfe;407493
Thanks for all the input guys! I always wrap my headers/exhaust, the extra bit of power IS noticable. But how about straight-through glasspacks? (I have a 3" cherrybomb just sitting around I was planning on throwing on there). Should I use it?


OK why do people WRAP PIPES is what you sshould be concentrating on. Correct now WHY!!!! For the same reason you should not run a ler. But for the same reason to run a CAT. Think about this and i will post back. I have dun extensive Dyno testing on the 2,3 over the years and i know what works. The DYNO DOES NOT LIE.
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 19, 2013, 08:23:21 PM
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;407504
You can try a dynomax ultraflow vxt, its straight through but it has a spring loaded redirect door in it.


Very restrictive as well. Think about it FOE.
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 19, 2013, 08:28:32 PM
Glass packs and cherry bombs have an arrow on them. If not they should be installed with the cones facing the engine to make them Quieter. Away from the engine to make them louder. I do not use them they SUCK and rob Ponies from the PONY.
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on January 19, 2013, 09:33:28 PM
We're talking about street cars, Tom.  I wouldn't give up a ler for anything, I just couldn't live with all the noise.  I think that even though a straight through ler cuts flow, it doesn't cut much.  And I'd be willing to bet you can't tell when driving it. From my reasoning abilities, a straight through with a flow tube equal to the size of the inlet and outlet should only reduce flow in that it allows the gas to expand and slow down in the ler (which is why it works). I can't see this being detectable on the street.  The dyno, yes. The track, maybe.  On the street, no chance.  Livability has to be considered.  THAT, and it's required by law in every place I've ever heard of.  Maybe you're so hardcore that you can deal with no lers, but I'll bet that's not the case with everyone.
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: Beau on January 19, 2013, 09:36:32 PM
I noticed a difference when I went from a true dual with a 2 inlet/2 outlet flowmaster, to a 2 into 1 pipe, with a single in/out flow and a 2.5" tailpipe. Big difference, both in power and sound.
But I had to do it that way to get it to pass inspection. Come spring, it'll go back to a dual in/out and have custom pipes ran to the rear.
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 19, 2013, 10:20:14 PM
Got it FOE. Not the answer though. The lers have the  greater losses not from restriction issues. By the way HP IS HP and the difference on the street is most definitely noticeable.  By the way more and more manufacturers are eliminating lers and just use the cat as the ler. As far as sound if you read my post i clearly said if sound was an issue use lers. But the 2.3 with a full exhaust single in nature cat only is not loud by any means. Ok enough said. But that is why people have cars that outperform others. They realize exhaust tuning can net several HP gains. And substancial gains. Thanks for listening!
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 19, 2013, 10:36:22 PM
The worst lers bar none are as follows. The Thrush Turbo and Flow Master lers. This is a fact and we proved it. Just saying.
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: STANG8U on January 19, 2013, 11:13:06 PM
Anyone have a clip of just a cat

My car is so quiet it sounds like its powers by lithium ion battery's lol
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: 88TC4lyfe on January 20, 2013, 12:54:28 AM
Quote from: STANG8U;407524
Anyone have a clip of just a cat

My car is so quiet it sounds like its powers by lithium ion battery's lol


lmao that sucks... Mines just factory stock, it lollops like a v8 at idle but once it revs it doesn't make much noise. Hell the whizz of the turbo and the BOV is louder lol =[. But yeah we're talking street cars, if I could get away with a straight pipe I would because I love manly loud engines, but gotta keep it legal. No cat, but yes ler. Technically not legal, but my state doesn't have smog checks :evilgrin:
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on January 20, 2013, 01:21:08 AM
I would never recommend a chambered ler to anyone.  Straight through are best, but not all are equal.  Turbos are only for the guy who wants a better quiet ler.  Most turbo lers are garbage, so if thats your thing, do your homework.  Mine is a daily driver so I'm running Dynomax Superturbos, just because my upstream is currently small (Mark VII stock h-pipe and stock HO headers) and I really hate drone.  I'm gathering parts to make my headers and h-pipe bigger (down stream will come later) I'm going to send the headers to be ceramic coated and because, for budget reasons I'm going without cats, I'm thinking about wrapping the h-pipe to the balance tube. Tom recommend cats so ardently because the reaction creates heat downstream and acts as a scavenging aid and helps to keep velocity up. I'll be wrapping to try to get some of that effect and to keep the heat away from my trans.
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: 88TC4lyfe on January 20, 2013, 02:51:30 AM
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;407536
I would never recommend a chambered ler to anyone.  Straight through are best, but not all are equal.  Turbos are only for the guy who wants a better quiet ler.  Most turbo lers are garbage, so if thats your thing, do your homework.  Mine is a daily driver so I'm running Dynomax Superturbos, just because my upstream is currently small (Mark VII stock h-pipe and stock HO headers) and I really hate drone.  I'm gathering parts to make my headers and h-pipe bigger (down stream will come later) I'm going to send the headers to be ceramic coated and because, for budget reasons I'm going without cats, I'm thinking about wrapping the h-pipe to the balance tube. Tom recommend cats so ardently because the reaction creates heat downstream and acts as a scavenging aid and helps to keep velocity up. I'll be wrapping to try to get some of that effect and to keep the heat away from my trans.

 
Yeah that's what I was thinking, chambered lers are garbage, and turbo lers are next to garbage. I work under cars for a living and you should see some of the trash they put on cars these days (newer volkswagen lers look like a freaking second gas tank).
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: STANG8U on January 20, 2013, 04:03:44 PM
I just got the car not long ago it has stock down pipe cat with dual flowmasters

I hate it!

I've Ben looking for the cheapest way to get the sound and power

I would love a strate 3" with a strate through ler but that would have to wait a while
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 20, 2013, 05:36:21 PM
Tom recommend cats so ardently because the reaction creates heat downstream and acts as a scavenging aid and helps to keep velocity up.

OK NOW YOU GET THE IDEA!!!

Running a to big of an exhaust hurts this and that is why pipe size is critical. The CAT makes the car emission legal and keeps the gases flowing. This is better than most people think. Actually a proper running car with a low cell count cat can net good HP gains. Thanks
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: 88TC4lyfe on January 20, 2013, 06:47:32 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;407575
Tom recommend cats so ardently because the reaction creates heat downstream and acts as a scavenging aid and helps to keep velocity up.

OK NOW YOU GET THE IDEA!!!

Running a to big of an exhaust hurts this and that is why pipe size is critical. The CAT makes the car emission legal and keeps the gases flowing. This is better than most people think. Actually a proper running car with a low cell count cat can net good HP gains. Thanks

 
Thanks man, you really know your stuff! Yeah I did some research and to me it looked like anything bigger than 3" on the 2.3 turbo was too much pipe. Hows a car sound with no ler and cat only though?
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: STANG8U on January 20, 2013, 07:43:28 PM
That's what I want to hear


It would be ez and cheap to keep the cat and have A ler shop just run a pipe off the cat
Title: Aftermarket Exhaust Installation Help
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 26, 2013, 09:06:52 PM
Easy Way To Estimate: Your intake system needs to flow 1.5 CFM per engine horsepower, and your exhaust system needs to flow 2.2 CFM per engine horsepower.

Good Way To Estimate: Take engine RPM x engine displacement, then divide by two. This is the intake volume. Use this same volume of air for the exhaust system, but then correct for thermal expansion (you need to know exhaust temps to figure things out).