On the Sport, it starts fine. Seems to idle fine. I start the car, and it SEEMS that once it's warmed up, the car starts to break up around 1200 to 2000 rpms.
Last night on the way home, no issues, but generally, after it's running for a bit, the issue shows it's ugly face.
I've swapped the TPS, IAC, both water sensors, the distributor...twice. Same issue. I haven't run codes yet, but will as soon as I can when the rain stops. Maybe that will answer my question. Until then, looking for ideas.
When I installed the new distributor, it was great for about 15 minutes, then this started (same thing before I swapped it). I do have a 180 degree thermostat in the car now, which is going away asap for the 190.
If I can think of more, I'll edit and post it here.
Did you check plugs or wires? I chased the same thing on my wife's Benz and found a plug boot was cracked.
I just replaced the wires about 2 months ago or so. That's on my list again as well....just in case something went bad.
Thing is, it ran fine last night, then most days it doesn't at all once I get to 40 mph or so, and the rpms are up. It SEEMS as though it happens when it warms up a bit. I can't promise that though.
HA~~!!!
this is the exact issue i am having.
If you still have the EGR solenoid connected, undo it and retest.
i have negleted to update my post about this same issue,, because i have been troubleshooting it.
It is the EGR control solenoid that my symptoms point to.
It is located on the pass rear side strut tower (top single solenoid)
I think you have deleted your EGR though, but still , if the diode in the top of the solenoid is shorted, that might be the partial cause.
I unplugged my egr control solenoid power connector last night and there is no intermittant buck or miss at the low RPM while pushing lightly on the gas,, odd you describe my issue to.~!
I'll check that as well. No EGR on the Sport.
Post a pic of this solenoid. I, for whatever reason, think that it's something else. Not sure why I think that. I will try it out though.
TFI module or pickup on the distrib? Dunno, kinda swingin in the dark without running codes?
I installed two different, new distributors and had the same issue (not to say they don't suck). I am going to run codes as soon as I can. Just waiting for the rain to stop.
Do you have a extra computer you can swap in?
Nope, it's in Kansas with Graham. Hope to be meeting up with him soon.
I am unsure of your climate there in Oklahoma but do they run "winter blend" fuel where you are at? I am thinking our cars do not quite know how to respond to the increasing ethanol blends in todays gasoline. My Cougar started acting very wierd after filling up once in late fall 2011. I was convinced I had a bad tank of gas and called the gas station to inquire about other complaints from other customers. Of course there was none. I even had the Department of weights and measures investigate the pump I used and they concluded it was fine.
The symptom was I was driving it on a county highway and it started cutting out for almost a minute. It then cleared up and didnt happen again. It might not be related to your problem but the oddity reminded me.
Good luck and keep us posted!
No ethenol around here. Never had bad gas here either. I've been through three different tanks of gas with this issue. I filled it up today from nearly empty with premium unleaded. Same issue.
I just replaced the BAP sensor a minute ago. Going to test drive it as soon as my sweetie gets home. Gotta trade her spots in the driveway.
Bap sensor not the problem. Codes on Friday, my next day off.
see pic below of its location with the red arrow, just unplug the eletrical connector.
Have you check the coil?
No, I haven't checked the coil, although it was replaced with a brand new one about 3 months ago. Not that it means anything. I'll check it, and Cassity, Thanks a lot. I'll give it a shot tomorrow and report the findings....or lack of findings. LOL.
For the next three days, my time belongs to the hospital. The only bad part of my job is the 12 hour shifts. The good part, 3 to 4 days off every week. Friday through Monday is my weekend. I hope to have answers Friday mid morning after codes are run.
I'm thinking about that TFI. The older guys I've worked with used to talk about them fritzing out once they heatsoak. Do you have a new one? Is it connected with a good thermal grease?
Heatsoak can cause a coil to freak as well, or anything electronic. Can only grasp for straws at this time. With any luck, it will throw a code.
Well, with the 12 hour shifts at work, Friday I'll know if there are any codes or not. The Distributors I tried (one of them is still in the car) were both brand new, both with new electronics. I may grab a new TFI and give it shot though, as well as swap out my coil, it's under warranty. AFTER I check the codes, that is.
Cutting out completly or just missing? If it's completly next time it does it twist the key forward and backward and see if that affects it any.
Roger
Just missing, not cutting out completely. It did have a pop, like a backfire through the t-body. That would make me think timing, but holy . I've timed the bejeezus out of it. I tried at 10, 12, 14 degrees. 14 worked the best. I'm re-re-re-checking plug wires Friday along with running codes.
compression test? I had an intake valve sticking that caused popping/backfiring like you are referring to.
That's on the list as well as a last resort. I'm hoping that with the good idle, and that it runs decent 1/4 of the time, it's not a valve. I'm thinking electronics of some kind because the popping is very rare, even when the missing/stumbling is happening.
You mentioned that you doesn't have any EGR, true?
Because this sounds like that you have gunked up EGR system.
A throughly clean of the whole EGR system usually will correct these type of problems.
Vinnie,
Have you checked the MAF elements to see if they are dirty?
Darren
I'll be checking the MAF and all tomorrow. Codes before I do anything. If I have to, I'll pull the 24's and MAF and swap in a set of 19's and matching MAF and see if there's a difference.
As far as EGR plugged up....I'm doubting it as everything was clean and in order just a few weeks ago when we put the car back together.
O.K., here we go....codes are as follows....
Engine running;13,33,44,94
Engine off;33,95
Breakdown the best I can...
13--RPM at idle out of range/high
33--Canister or EGR valve control system not operating/opening properly
44--Thermactor air system fault/right side
94--Thermactor air system fault; trans axle switch solenoid fault (converter clutch) secondary air injection system inop (left side)
95--fuel pump secondary circuit fault
The car has no EGR, or smog equipment., and has been equipped with Mass Air for quite some time. I'm not sure what to think about all of that.
Vinnie, i wonder why your list of codes are worded differently than mine? i pulled my list in my diy link from therangerstation.com and once i bounced the desriptions off the list in my emissions shop manual ,, and the ones i compared matched.
your list kinda looks like mine but its gotta make you wonder.
ok, it appears if what you are saying is 100%, then you actually have 2 codes because the others will always remain , you have code 13 and 95.
Test your fuel pres, it would tie into the low idle code as well with low fuel.
If you can, tape the fuel pres guage to the windshield and drive and watch the pres & the road, Turbocoupe50 once told me you dont want to see the fuel pres go lower than 20psi at high rpm. Running around with lower R's, the fuel pres should be around 40 as you know.
I dont really understand why a vehicle that was never equipped with an ISC motor controller (cfi cars only) would dump a code 13? unless you use to be a cfi car?
also as you already know, pull the vac line off the fpr and see if its damp on the inside or smells of fuel.
Remember V8Demon's thread about the FPR he took apart? and all the manuf errors he found when the rubber diaphram is crimped into the housing?
13 (O) ISC did not respond properly (extends to touch throttle then retracts for KOEO) - ISC
33 ALL - (O, M) EGR did not open/ respond during test or if memory code, did not open intermittently - EVP EVR PFE
44 AIR system inoperative - Air Injection
94 AIR system inoperative - Air Injection , Transmission TCC circuit/solenoid problem - Transmissions
95 (O) Fuel pump: open, bad ground or always on - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits (R) AIR not Diverting (AIRD) - Air Injection
(M) Possible bad fuel pump ground or open between fuel pump and pin 8 at PCM (Fuel Pump Monitor signal) - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits
Well, I'm giving a chance to prove itself. I was RE-checking everything, and pulled the FPR vacuum line. Looking at it, it seemed fine. I couldn't see any cracks at all, then while I was re-installing it, there it was, a crack right even with the rubber boot on the end. I went to Autozone, bought new line and ends, installed the replacement vacuum line, and it SEEMS to have fixed the issue. As I told Jerry a bit ago, I'm not trusting it until it's good for a few days in a row.
Hopefully that'll do it though. I'll keep everybody posted on the issue for a few days until it either HAS or has Not cleared the problem.
Hopefully that fixes it. The codes you listed have no bearing on your issue so don't worry about them :).
I'm hoping you're right. I'll take the old girl out tomorrow for a bit and see what happens. Once I'm comfortable, I can focus on the rest of the car, and preparing for bodywork this spring.
Funny thing, I replaced the broken vacuum tube, and it ran without an issue for the rest of the day. Now, the problem is back this morning. Hesitation....missing.....But not all the time. Intermittently. It'll be there....then bam, it takes off and runs strong....then it's back.....
sounds just like what mine is doing.
unplug that egr solenoid power connector just for the heck of it.
i have stock emissions stuff operational but short belting the smog out...but,,
i plugged the egr vac line and the issue came back. this only pops up "after" the car has slightly warmed up, then at the speeds which i am barely on the gas moving along at 35 to 45mph, its like a miss somewhere. my codes and descriptions are not the same as yours , pointed to that earlier if you get a chance to sanity check.
i plugged the egr vac line back in and unplugged the egr control solenoid power connector which seems to cause the problem to stay away, i did find the diode across to solenoid to be shorted .
I'll do that when I go out there.
Hows the wires to your O2 sensors? No cracks, breaks, or touching the exhaust occasionally?
Since it's intermittent, makes me wonder if it's a bad wire/connector..
These things will drive a feller bat- crazy trying to trak 'em down.
They look good, and they are covered in heat sleeves. They don't have any damage. I agree , it's friggin' driving me crazy. I'd like to figure it out, but I may be forced to take the Sport to a mechanic I know.
Quick question, I would assume that with the mass air conversion you had to move over to a mass air processor? If so that may be where the codes are different. I am not familiar with the speed density processors as I only have the A9L's.
If you have a chip on the car it seems like the secondary fuel pump code always comes up. Cannot remember if you have one or not but thought I would throw it out there. I agree with the thought a few posts back about getting a remote fuel pressure gauge where you can see it when the car is under load.
Darren
The code 95 occurs when you install a mass-air EEC-IV in our cars. Mustangs had a factory second wire (circuit) going back to the fuel pump relay to confirm that the pump kicks on. Our cars never had that wire from the factory, so the computer spits out code 95. You can definitely run a wire back there and then you'd never get the code again. But that's all it's for. Just FYI.
I've had Mass Air for a few years now. It's still having the issue. Not sure what to do right now. I'm thinking.
On the last test drive, it was stumbling, hesitating and popping from the throttle body a bit, then, smooth and running great. I was going to swap the TFI, but ran out of time. Fuel pump wouldn't do that would it? TFI maybe.....
Cassity, I did unplug the EGR plug you mentioned. Going to drive it now. I'll let you know.
I was thinking about installing my 19# injectors and Mass Air meter and seeing if there's a difference. if so, I'll know it was the Meter. If not, I can swap them back easily.
still there with the egr thingy undone?
Yes Sir.
i hate mysteries,, watch it be something like a family of little blind mice who decided to nest up in behind your instrument cluster to keep warm,, and the poor deviels didnt really mean to knick that wire,,, do you have hitch hickers?
Troubleshooting is a process of luck experience feel and loads of experience in the car business. A dyne is best for this and having a cylinder scope is mandatory in most cases. Trying to do an intermittent trouble on the road is frustrating at best. I know most people do not have access to a Dyne of course. But with a trouble like this you are at a great loss. So with that you have to determine whether it is fuel or spark. My gut feeling is spark. Normally fuel is mostly stable. But spark especially a TFI is the killer. Now do you have a stock FORD COIL?? If not buy one. Or swap a known good one. Also what is your plug gap. On turbo cars this is extremely critical. I know you are NA so dont jump on me. Anything that can cause an interruption of spark should be checked. I am betting it is spark. As i have found over the years that fuel delivery is very stable on these cars. But check the fuel pressure and volume. That is important. And the injectors to see if one is hanging up. That might be an issue as the pintle injectors can do funny things. Also change your fuel filter. Unless it has been checked. Do you have a sock in the tank that is NEW. They clog up some times. Good luck
:flame::burnout:
Jay got my monthly service bulletins from the car companies. Catch this TOYOTA has an issue with a TPS code. Cure and cause id an incorrect brake light in the tail light assembly. GO FIGURE!!! I cant figure that one out???
If nothing else works try finding another computer idk I've had similar problems and it was the computer
I have a buddy having the same issue and he is not having any luck ether
I have another computer coming.
I think it's a spark issue as well. It runs awesome for a bit, then the starts again. I think it's ignition related somehow, and that may be the reason for the popping through the throttlebody. But when it's running good, it's very strong and fast.
No mice or rodents. LOL.
The fuel tank was replaced about 3 1/2 months ago or so with a brand new one. And the filter and fuel pump filter (sock/screen). I plan on replacing the filter this week as a just in case.
The coil was replaced about 10 weeks ago with a new one..
Crazy stuff.
x2 on the ignition related. I have never seen a fuel issue cause a backfire through the intake side before. I would assume with it being you, timing is spot on. Carbon build up is out of the question as well, because your engine's insides are clean enough to eat off of. Fuel system testing would not be a bad idea, including trying the 19# injectors, however, I don't think that is where your problem is at. My best guess is TFI or PCM. Mice can do quite a number on electrical, but a mouse eating a bird is quite backwards! Lol
I'm going to swap the TFI asap (on my next day off), but at this point, I'm thinking maybe....Juuuuuuust maybe the computer. I say that because as I have stated, I've installed two brand new distributors, both with their own new electronics, plus the TFI from my old distributor (it's not but a couple of months old) and they all have the same issue. Granted, O'Rielly's TFI's may not be up to Ford standards, but I doubt all 3 would suck at the same time.
Graham has an A9P I bought some time ago from a third party through him, and he's shipping it to me. I have never had a computer go bad, or known anybody personally who has, but, it can happen.
Bad computers are common on Dodges. Kind of rare on a Ford. I kind of suspect a problem with mine. Check engine light will not come on....even with stored codes. And yes, the bulb is fine.
By the way, I believe you have proved the TFI is not the problem.
My check engine light hasn't come on either.....
Well, off to work. if anybody has any more ideas, I'll be home later to read them. Thanks guys.
Have you done a compression test yet?
The E7 heads on my 5.0l were rebuilt and had gt40 size Ferrara valves installed with new guides, seats and Crane matched valvesprings that came with my cam. These heads were installed on a rebuilt .030 block with hyperteuctic valve relief pistons, bearings, etc. This engine ran strong as hell with the Crane 2020 cam and speed density computer when I first resurrected my Cougar back in 2005. It just started suffering from the quirk you are talking about. Once in awhile it would cut out and pop through the throttle body upon takeoff or a sudden hard accelleration.
Eventually I ended up sticking an intake valve in the guide, bending the head of the valve and breaking the corner off a lifter with a bent pushrod. Thank God I had the good valves or I would have really munched things up even more if the head of the valve broke off!
Well the final buttstuffysis was that the one valve guide was not installed symetrically correct, being off just enough to stick the valve.
I probably could have found this on a compression test.
my symptoms are not showing back fire, so this is different for sure.
Aha! Computers don't like to tell on themselves.
Swap out a good known ECM and give it a go. Nothing to loose. But it seems funny to me that it backfires. That normally is a LATE indication on fords. Did you set up TRUE TDC?? Just a hunch did you do a leak down test and plot your compression. These two things will modt likely come out ok as if i am not mistaken you do have a smooth idle??? Well backfiring is lean and or late . Good luck!!
As someone who's changed out bad Ford computers 3 times now, I respectfully disagree. ;)
Vinnie...did you clean the MAF sensor with the correct cleaner?
Just tossing a dart at the board here but would vacuum cause issues like this (really a question for Tom or Foe)? You could get a vacuum gauge and some tubing and run that into the cabin so you can see it under load. If you know the fuel and vacuum are good then it would point to ignition.
I just remembered something, I had a similar problem on my Coupe about six years ago and it turned out to be the wiring harrness adapter for the MSD-6AL. This is the one that plugs into the factory harness at the coil and allows the MSD to be used without cutting up the factory harness. I bypassed the MSD and the car ran fine. Shipped the 6AL back to MSD for them to check out and they could not find any problems so in the mean time I ordered a new one. I installed the new one and it promptly did the same thing. It finally donned on me what was actually being removed from the equation when I was swapping back and forth between the stock and MSD ignitions. Ordered and new wiring harness adapter and the problem went away. Long story but thought it was worth mentioning.
Darren
I actually cleaned the MAF some time ago, but not lately. I will Thursday on my day off. I have a list written right here next to me.
The timing chain was dot to dot, and the number 1 piston at TDC.
Graham is sending me an A9P asap, so I'll swap it as well if I need to by then. I'm going to check all I can on my one day off.
I may be totally wrong, but it would seem that if a valve was bad, it wouldn't allow me to have 30 minutes of smooth happy driving, low and high rpms, then all of the sudden, shuddering, hesitation, then BAM !!! full power.
sounds like a TFI to me
Does, doesn't it? It's hard to reconcile that with the fact that he's tried 3 of them.
they weren't new, I dont think
or maybe the wiring coming from it?
The two distributors both came with new TFI's on them, and the one on my old distributor was only 3 months old. No change with any of them.
I have a friend who is the head instructor at the vocational school for automotive tech. He said to bring the car Thursday and he'd put it on the machine and check it out. HOPEFULLY that'll find the issue.
Good to have friends with tools!!! Hopefully you guys can find the problem and it will be interesting to know what is causing your headache.
Darren
Dumb question but you don't have any pinched/bare wires underhood do you? TFI and coil harness looks good?
That to is on the list for tomorrow. Wires and harnesses. I'm going to pull the upper intake and look at it all.
It could very well be a worn connection or a pinched wire around the salt and pepper shaker area. Could possibly be from all the intake swappage going on under the hood. Hell it could be a bad ecu ground or engine to chassis ground hope you get it all figured out vinnie
Vinny that is good to have a friend with a scope i am thinking. But getting it to act up not driving it could be a c. But either way Good Luck. Still sounds like spark but you can look at the scope pattern and tell a lean cylinder instantly. Hope you have good luck in finding it. I am thinking that the advance parameters may be messing up. As a back fire is normally late or lean. Dont rule out a vacuum leak.
:burnout::burnout:
I'm not ruling out anything. Wiring issue, spark...whatever. I don't even care if it's so simple a 3 year old should know it, as long as I know the problem and can address it, it's all good. I'm going tomorrow after lunch, and will report in when I get home. Or, report what we didn't find. Either wya.
All the intake swappage? Really? Me? You must have me mistaken with somebody else.
O.K.....I took the car down and my friend put it on the diagnostic ignition machine thing....He says that the coil isn't putting out but half of what it should as far as he sees it, and that the TFI is probably no good.
NOW, my current coil is an Autozone factory style replacement. It's under warranty. I can swap it for an MSD and just pay the difference, or should I go with another stock style?
As far as the TFI goes, I can get a Wells from Autozone, or an NOS Ford piece from my friend Mr. Ebay for around $23.00. I was told that Wells makes the TFI's for Ford. I personally have no bloody idea.
Any suggestions? Also, this is hopefully going to fix it, but nothing is in stone.
I've always run a msd coil with no issue ...... But m.s.d has always meant my spark died lol
As for tfi they always go out no matter what brand it's just how soon lol
I really don't trust autozone stuff though
I have heard that as well.
Vinny that is the first thing i said. As far a aftermarket stuff it is . All these high output coils SUCK and that is why i use original ford stuff. With this is your TFI remote?? And does it have a giant heat sink. better do that along with a FORD COIL. Hope this fixes your issue Good luck Tom
:poke::poke:
X2 on the heat sink and remote mounting.
I'd get a Ford piece, or else Wells if they do make 'em for FoMoCo.
Good luck with her...you must be half bald from pulling your hair out over the matter..
My TFI is not a remote unit, although I have one on the shelf. Not sure how to convert it.....
After everything else I've had to do lately, I am not sure I can even afford a Motorcraft coil. Those are not cheap. My funds do NOT come from my paycheck, and no cheating is allowed. I can score a TFI from Motorcraft or Wells, but the coil....gotta come up with something else. I'll double check Ebay.
Here is what i use. A remote 6.5 Chevy PMD remote heat sink.
(http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/tomrenzo/family175.jpg)
(http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/tomrenzo/family174.jpg)
I have a remote heat sink from a '95 Mustang GT....just don't know how to get it from the distributor to the heat sink and make it work.
Remote TFI (http://"http://classicbroncos.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-197853.html")
Doesn't work for me. I'm not a member. There's got to be another write up with some clear, made for a 5 year old easy to understand pics. LOL.
Vinny it is a snap a few wires and you are dun. I also use one of the existing mounting holes to strain relieve the wiring harness i build for the conversion. It is like 3 wires at best. If memory serves me a late model dizzy and arness is a plug and play.
:flame:
Vinnie, I'm not a member there either, but I can see the forum....weird..
I see it, although I had to click the "show full version" link. Or try this. (http://"http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197853")
Nope. Not for me. I've said it before and I'm saying it again....I do NOT do electrical diagrams. Something about them do not click for me.
Looks like I'm staying with the TFI on the distributor. No hablo electrical stuff like that.
As Tom said get some Motorcraft ignition parts. They are the best. The aftermarket stuff really is compared to the Motorcraft stuff.
I'm ordering a Motorcraft TFI tonight.
Vinny i know you are not an electric DUDE. But why do you think Ford remote mounted it from the factory on later cars.
Ford mounted them away from the distributor due to heat issues.......Now notice the first three words I typed...."Ford Mounted them"....Vinnie doesn't do electrical diagrams. Not a big secret. I'm a step by step, have to have it explained like I'm 4 years old, kind of electrical person.
I bought the heat sink version from the '95 Stang because I wanted to do it like that on my car. But after seeing the diagram.....I said it isn't going to happen. It's not three wires and you're done.
it's only your brain saying it's not going to happen... you did the mass air wiring no problem
Are you perfectly willing to let 3 wires defeat you? If so...that's sad.
10% rule, Vinnie. You have to be at least 10% smarter than the object you're using. ;)
You can do it my man. We have the utmost confidence. Besides, if you get stuck, you think we're going to let you go it alone?
^Exactly. Besides...if you don't do it...where the hell am I going to get my inspiration to do it!!??? LOL.
You can handle it boss. You built that badass car...you can do anything.
Vinnie...If you do it, I'll do it too...
Would something like this work for you?
http://www.mccullyracingmotors.com/index_files/tfikits.htm
Wow, plug and play.
O.K., I'll do it. Generally peer pressure doesn't work on me, but I'll let it this time. I'll try to do it next weekend if the weather allows me to be outside to work.
There. Are you happy now ??? !!!! LOL.
I would've actually bought that if I haven't been chasing this other . I will try to fabricate this harness this Thursday night.
Oh, I forgot to pass on today's news on this matter.....
I stopped by Autozone and picked up the MSD coil. I installed it when I got home (took about 3 minutes) but haven't had a chance to test it out. After 13 hours at work, I just wanted to sit down. Updates on the coil tomorrow and whether it helped or not.
I know what some have stated about the MSD not being any good. Well, I'll find out in the morning on my way to work.
Like I said iv never had a problem with them iv ran about 6 or more
I also run a msd box and dizzy with no problems but those are generally what people have problems with
I'm about to find out if they are good or not. if so...GREAT!!! If not, then it's under warranty, and I'll take it back to the one for a replacement or refund.
i can make you up a remote harness kit if you want.
its high time i did one anyway so its no big deal.
Id rather use the same color wire for extending so if you have a spare harness you could sacrafice that would consist of the TFI connector only, that would be idea.
the three pr0ngs on the tfi would simly match the stator colors,, red/grn/black
What would you charge for something like that? Somewhere around here, I've got the one that I saved from my white '88 3.8 car...the one that got toasty in 2006.
Cassity, I don't think I have a plug, but I can get one. How much?
any plugs usable here vinnie?
http://www.rjminjectiontech.com/?p=10 (http://"http://www.rjminjectiontech.com/?p=10")
I wonder if the TFI harness from an SN95 could be used? Pull the TFI, heatsink, mount, and wiring all the way to the eec and patch it in...?
I NEED to go dig up my 3.8 TFI stuff that was on my white car and get to looking at it.
yeah the 3.8L engines are sacraficial,,
I could "make" the color coded wires using the base color and adding a stripe.
Its a simple as extending all wires by solder joints / heat shrink up to the new location.
In my minds eye, the best place i could see to mount a TFI would be "inside" the air filter box where the TFI would always get a constant good breeze.
Im open to suggestions but i would really rather stay away from the upper part of the radiator cross memeber.
I like were they are placed on the forward part of the car but still believe they are subject to corrosion from water.
im thinking of an area that allows you to wash off your engine and not soak this thing down.
someone start a new thread on this.........after my debockle with the auto lamp module, i may start one and we can all brain storm with a goal set to be building the first couple mid feb.
We should think about things from a customer level like...
~can not get wet
~can not get hot from radiant devices like headers
~can not get wet from a radiator hose blowing
~can not get saturated with salt from roads
~can not get destroyed by general tune up's
~is located in a convienient location for ease of replacement
**improves the orginal design flaws that cause them to break down.
In my minds eye again,, now im starting to see this being located inside the car and perhaps this is the best controled location to meet all the above.
If someone can verify one thing before we get to the nuts and bolts......
Confirm that when you remove the wire loom cover, the TFI connector with wiring will reach inside the car and if so, we dont need to splice at all...which is the optimal situation.
Im starting to think that mounting to the left side of the car on the body where the Ebrake pedal is an option.
I wont charge anything, and if you want it to be mounted like newer model cars up front, you can just send the connector / wire with your desired heat sync and i can get the bulk of the design so that you bolt in and plug up.
any heat sync will work, or slotted aluminum type chunk of metal from something. we have them all around us and dont pay attention.
Im starting to question the metal surface on the TFI itself in that i am not "totally" convinced that all 100% of the metal surface "can" touch the metal its "suppose" to be attached to in order to wick the heat off.
to be honest, i have not been put in the situation where i could monitor the heat these produce since they are always pretty much hot from being over the oven (engine) all the time anyway.
anyone know this answer?
i think babbling on sometimes helps me or other people finally arrive at the right question so i think it is "why do the TFI's require heat sync mating?" in the first place.
one clue that may answer this is that on newer designes a heat sync was added to the TFI in the remote mounted enviroment so this says the TFI "produces" heat. I guess thats the answer so thinking along those terms and all you computer guru's out there , thinking processors and mother boards ect can probably come up with really neat ideas and keep this thing really cool.
Yep, I saw it. $12.00. I'll check the boneyard first then if I need to, I'll buy it from them.
I'd move mineI'd think for me, on the core support, or the firewall to the passenger side of the BAP sensor.
yeah, but think like this...........
if you can relocate it and "not" have to splice wires then that is the best way to go.
I dont know if the TFI harness comes along the driver side of the harness then goes across the fire wall to the pass side or not,, if it does then your idea works well with no splicing.
i hope we all do something that makes it work better and does the job.
check the fuel pressure ...mmm
You should check that fuel filter is not blocked or bad fuel pump
Greetings :D
It comes from the main harness, and down the driver side of the intake to the front of the engine.
I have had the same TFI for over ten years. Just used some super heat sink goo from Radio Shack and no problems. I'll post the name and part number up when I get home later today.
I agree that the remote TFI mod is the best solution though.
I have ran the MSD coils for years and not had any issues.
Darren
TFI heat is not the only reason it fails!! Their are other issues as well,
yes, we know that but which bung does it go to ,,the one on the firewall drivers side or the one on the firewall pass side?
The TUNE!!
Finally got back to the house, flying in inclement weather still sucks. Anyhow, the stuff I got at Radio Shack is called "Arctic Silver 5" and here is the listing:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2216879
Expensive but so far it has worked really well.
Darren
Passenger side. My new Motorcraft TFI should be here this week. I'll install it and see if there's any difference.
KNOCK ON WOOD....with the new coil, it's been doing pretty good. On the next day I get to spend with the Sport, I'm going to instal the new push rods, TFI, plug wires, and try to set the timing from 14 down to 12. I set it at 12 before the coil, because anything lower wasn't working. Now that the coil seems to have helped the old girl, I'm backing it off to 12 degrees and see what happens.
Darren, thanks a lot. I'll look into that online if possible.. Our local Radio Shack just closed it's doors a couple of months ago and was replaced by some other name electronic store.
They have their own website here:
http://www.articsilver.com
Pretty sure you can find it anywhere online though. Good luck and man that was some cold ass weather up in Tulsa this weekend! I was sooo glad the Chili Bowl is indoors.
Darren
I had a stew bowl tonight when I got home from work. LOL.
I would think that you could order it from newegg or tigerdirect.
I'm off tomorrow, I think I'll dig up my 3.8 wiring and track down the TFI pertinent part and see what we have to work with. I do know I kept the TFI and heat sink from it. Seems like the MN12 cars had the TFI remoted too...not sure if those were just the 3.8 cars, as I've not been around a 5.0 MN12 long enough to ever worry about the TFI.
Hopefully Vinnie, you've got it nailed down...
I'm hoping so as well. And I do believe that the MN-12 5.0's did have remote mounted TFI's. When I hit the yard next time, I'm going to start grabbing them all.
I think I'll grab 3 or 4 to convert mine over as well. I was going to go to the yards tomorrow, but it's way too cold and I've got some other things here that must be done, maybe next Monday I can plan a trip down...Mondays are about the only day I can go as it's my only day off without the kids. The rest of the time, either the wife and I are both working, or there's no sitter. No biggie though. There's still lots of time to work on cars :)
Don't forget the TAURUS AS WELL.
The tune people????????????????????
hey vinnie,
does your number 1 and 6 distributor wire boots point straight at the fire wall?
at 10deg btc, you should be able to end up with this as your final adjustment. think like using a square or a T, both posts should point directly at the fire wall.
i really do not know what to say about not being able to run lower than 12deg btc,, but your saying now its ok. very odd. only thing i can think of would be the dizzy being off one tooth to the ccw direction.
Im not too keen on the msd stuff because the oem spark system in just my opinion far exceeds the requirements. I think the oem is something like 18kv on the secondary. i guess this ties in the tune part of it.
None of my wires point at the firewall. And I couldn't get it to run right at lower timing before the new coil. I think it'll be different with a properly functioning coil.
then to relocate like you want, there will be no splices needed and its very likely you could even relocate next to the air intake tube where it generally cool.
,, next to the aire filter. Id guess that if you took laser temp readings the skin of the car would be warmer towards the area to the rear right strut tower than up forward near the air filter. just brain storming....... the best place inside the bay would most certainly be the coolest part of the car and it would be neat to discover where this is.
have you guys thought out the connector needed to tie in the stator?
in my minds eye i was thinking of three male spad connectors arranged with wire inserted directly into a spare stator on the work bench.
the stator has three female spade connections molded into the heat dispation silicone base.
next using something similar to a match box, layout the connectors & wire while plugged into the stator then pour in two part epoxy. this would build the connector to plug up to the stator. the issue i see with this and have seen since the beginning is how to keep the stator plugged in since our cars are provisioned with bolt down connection.
idealy you would want to gut a defective TFI and use the case as an integration device such that it would hold your glue ect but if i recall correctly, the darn thing is already full of glue / epoxy.
what do you suggest?, with the assumption that the vehicle has plug wires , plugs, misc all reqired parts that pass to generate spark, what precautions are in play with the tune?
Given the post above it's gotta be some cultural reference :)
oh,, well im not blonde but i feel like it now,, lol,, and i still dont get it.
Jay anything that increases the current draw through the TFI module will increase heat. Example Plug gaps coil types wire types there resistance and even the resistance of the plugs that are used. That is why i only use stock components that reduce the heat in the TFI module. If you have a chance set up a dummy ignition system in your shop and read primary current with different components gaps and types of plugs ETC. You will be shocked at the difference, The TAURUS also used a remote TFI . I tried using a split TFI module for mounting the 3 leads needed for the remote but could not separate it successfully. So i just use spade tips with a dab of solder and use the mounting holes for the TFI to make a bracket for strain relief. A simple cable clamp works great ans a bead of silicone to seal the wires nicely in the dizzy.
:flame:
yeah, i get what you are saying, that method makes sense, de-complicates is drastically.
I dont have the kind of tools to see that much ignition system deviation like you do, and i would like to see this in action one day, would be interesting to see the extra load exerted on the tfi due to after market spark components.
So we are still focused on heat,, thats the good part to know, remote mounting and heat dispation coupled with location of the coolest spot is still priority 1. Those with add on higher impedence sub systems or parts are just gonna have to manage the risk,, thats all,, in the end its a good mod for just about anyone who has basic wiring skills.
Here is the diagram for the ignition circuit on the 87-93 Mustangs:
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/dbrune_83/FuelInjectionHarnessIgnitionCircuitwithGrayDistMountedTFIIgnitionModule_zps8aae0a52.jpg)
Darren