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Technical => Electrical Tech => Topic started by: vinnietbird on November 27, 2012, 06:32:59 PM

Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 27, 2012, 06:32:59 PM
I swapped the lifters on the Sport today. Re-assembled everything, and hooked everything up. No issues at that point.

NOW, here's the problem....I turned the key to start the engine, and a small puff of smoke came from the driver side inner fender area near the starter solenoid's general location. I immediately turned the key to the off position and took a look. I couldn't find any burnt wires, or melted wires. I found one gray wire that is tied in with two other from the factory through a common fusible link that had a split in the insulation. No melting, but it was warm. I guessed that the wire split at some time, and it finally contacted something it shouldn't.

I pulled the wire aside, and checked everything else I could see....turned the key, and still no start. It tries to turn over, but no gas. I checked at the fuel rail. Nothing. I pulled the panel from the trunk, made sure it was quiet, turned the key, and the pump isn't priming. I pulled the pump, ran direct wires to it to see if it worked, and it does using a hot and ground wire from the battery. The fuel lines to the pump were empty as well. I checked the fuel shutoff switch, not the problem. All electrical items work. Lights, stereo, fan, just not the pump.

I'm going to get a new relay shortly and try it out, hoping that's it.

Jerry and I discussed this at length, and we think (hope) relay.

Any other ideas?
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: TOM Renzo on November 27, 2012, 07:16:23 PM
FUSE LINK> same as 86 This cant be happening?????

The only thing that can smoke at the starter solenoid is the FUSE LINKS!!!!!!

Key the car on and tell me if the SES light comes on??? If not EEC relay is where to look and find that blown fuse link!!! Tug on them and if they separate they are blown. Now why???????

EEC relay powers up the FP RELAY. And the ECM commands it on.

Once again is the SES light working!!!!
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: 88turbo on November 27, 2012, 07:30:12 PM
I vote fusable links also.  I had this problem a few years ago, ended up replacing all of them and havent had a problem since.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: TOM Renzo on November 27, 2012, 07:36:35 PM
Quote from: 88turbo;403394
I vote fusable links also.  I had this problem a few years ago, ended up replacing all of them and havent had a problem since.

100% they smoke when they blow. BEEN THEIR when i was doing some experimenting on gauge sizes of links!!!

VINNIE WHAT RELAY?????
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: daminc on November 27, 2012, 07:47:56 PM
he was going to check the fuel pump relay, and work his way forward....good suggestion with the key/light on test
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: bryan163 on November 27, 2012, 08:12:57 PM
I seem to remember this happening to me a long ass time ago and it was the link.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 27, 2012, 08:48:55 PM
You were all wrong. It's a fusible link. Replacing that  tomorrow. Forgive my language, but it was the least offensive of the sentence enhancers I was going to use.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: bryan163 on November 27, 2012, 08:51:48 PM
thats what I said^^:beatyoass: lol
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: 88turbo on November 27, 2012, 08:54:08 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;403409
You were all wrong. It's a fusible link. Replacing that  tomorrow. Forgive my language, but it was the least offensive of the sentence enhancers I was going to use.

Quote from: 88turbo;403394
I vote fusable links also.  I had this problem a few years ago, ended up replacing all of them and havent had a problem since.


I wasnt wrong!!!!!
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: bryan163 on November 27, 2012, 08:56:39 PM
I believe thats what tom was suggesting also.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 27, 2012, 08:58:50 PM
Nope, you were all wrong. WROOOOONNNNG !!!!!!
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: bryan163 on November 27, 2012, 09:02:03 PM
:shakeass::rollin:
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: daminc on November 27, 2012, 09:05:50 PM
It also might be a fusable link, Vinnie.......
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 27, 2012, 09:18:54 PM
Jerry.....good thinking. WHY DIDN'T YOU OTHER GUYS THINK OF THAT ???? Thanks Jerry. I knew SOMEBODY would chime in with some real help. LOL.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: 88turbo on November 27, 2012, 09:24:43 PM
*shakes head*  :(
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: TOM Renzo on November 27, 2012, 09:48:18 PM
Vinny get some rest    we all told you it was a link>> D'OH!!!

BUT WHY DID IT BLOW???????????????????

:toilet::beatyoass::mullet::hick:
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: TOM Renzo on November 27, 2012, 09:53:21 PM
The only thing that can smoke at the starter solenoid is the FUSE LINKS!!!!!!

Vinny calm down and take a big breathe and read the POSTS.  D'OH!!!
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: TOM Renzo on November 27, 2012, 09:55:30 PM
Quote from: 88turbo;403425
*shakes head*  :(



WOW plain and simple it was the first post i made and also others. Everyone knows the links are off the Starter Solenoid!!!!
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: Beau on November 27, 2012, 09:57:30 PM
Tom, he's funnin' with ya guys lol
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 27, 2012, 10:20:44 PM
See, Beau gets it.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: jcassity on November 27, 2012, 11:56:09 PM
vinnie,
your wrong,, it was a fuse link  : (

big rooster~,, stop telling vinnie its the starter relay man~~  shesh already
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 28, 2012, 12:01:56 AM
Started from a pinched wire. I HATE electrical stuff. I don't mind soldering, making a little harness....whatever, but I HATE diagnosing this . I'll have it all back in order before lunch tomorrow.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on November 28, 2012, 12:21:43 AM
Better check those fuse links, Vinnie, before you end up tearing your whole car apart and making Tom pull out all his hair. (cuz THAT never happens around here)
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: TOM Renzo on November 28, 2012, 05:37:53 AM
Quote from: jcassity;403438
vinnie,
your wrong,, it was a fuse link  : (

big rooster~,, stop telling vinnie its the starter relay man~~  shesh already


Jay here is his post. Links near the Starter RELAY!!!!!!!!!!!

NOW, here's the problem....I turned the key to start the engine, and a small puff of smoke came from the driver side inner fender area near the starter solenoid's general location.


Jay never said anything about the starter RELAY. I said the links come off the starter relay and they DO!!!!  Or under the battery tray. I clearly said FUSE LINK!!! I think we are getting side tracked or you are not reading my posts. I clearly know the relay is used for starting. Unless i lost my mind completely!!! Once again it is a FUSE LINK VINNIE!!!
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: TOM Renzo on November 28, 2012, 05:42:31 AM
Quote from: vinnietbird;403409
You were all wrong. It's a fusible link. Replacing that  tomorrow. Forgive my language, but it was the least offensive of the sentence enhancers I was going to use.


THAT IS WHAT I SAID ALSO. Now please tell me where this link is Vinnie. Jay seems to think i told you the Starter Solenoid ?????? Cant figure that one OUT for the life of me

FOE I THOUGHT WE WERE BUDDIES  ???????? DAM!!!!

Vinnie post the repair on the link. I am curious. Indulge ME Thanks
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: TOM Renzo on November 28, 2012, 06:13:59 AM
Jay here is my relocated solenoid on my Mustang Drop top. I relocate them when i clean up the engine compartment. Note the FUSE LINKS OFF THE SOLENOID!!! They are their and that is all i was telling VINNY

This setup is under the front splash guard completely out of site so the engine compartment is PRISTINE!!! Just saying. Hiding wires is what i like to do along with UGLY SOLENOIDS!!!

Thanks JAY i hope this clears up the fuse link DILEMA you think i posted incorrectly Tom The ROOSTER!!!

(http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/tomrenzo/Kitties136.jpg)
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: daminc on November 28, 2012, 07:33:09 AM
Who's on first?
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on November 28, 2012, 07:46:29 AM
Just poking ya Tom.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 28, 2012, 08:18:23 AM
Quote from: daminc;403458
Who's on first?

What's on second? I don't know is on third. LOL.

There's a gray wire coming from the solenoid that breaks into three wires. One of those is done. Repairing it after I drop the boy off at school.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: mcb82gt on November 28, 2012, 09:16:35 AM
Humor can be hard to convey with typing. LOL
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: jcassity on November 28, 2012, 10:29:59 AM
tom~ vinnie was just playing,, so was i... like said,

whos on first
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: jcassity on November 28, 2012, 10:33:42 AM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;403457
Jay here is my relocated solenoid on my Mustang Drop top. I relocate them when i clean up the engine compartment. Note the FUSE LINKS OFF THE SOLENOID!!! They are their and that is all i was telling VINNY

This setup is under the front splash guard completely out of site so the engine compartment is PRISTINE!!! Just saying. Hiding wires is what i like to do along with UGLY SOLENOIDS!!!




Thanks JAY i hope this clears up the fuse link DILEMA you think i posted incorrectly Tom The ROOSTER!!!

(http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/tomrenzo/Kitties136.jpg)


then how's come you and Foe and daminc told him to pull the engine and remove the wood blocks binding up the torque converter?
you know as well as i do we like leaving them in there.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: jcassity on November 28, 2012, 10:34:17 AM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;403457
Jay here is my relocated solenoid on my Mustang Drop top. I relocate them when i clean up the engine compartment. Note the FUSE LINKS OFF THE SOLENOID!!! They are their and that is all i was telling VINNY

This setup is under the front splash guard completely out of site so the engine compartment is PRISTINE!!! Just saying. Hiding wires is what i like to do along with UGLY SOLENOIDS!!!




Thanks JAY i hope this clears up the fuse link DILEMA you think i posted incorrectly Tom The ROOSTER!!!

(http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/tomrenzo/Kitties136.jpg)

 

then how's come you and Foe and daminc told him to pull the engine and remove the wood blocks binding up the torque converter?
you know as well as i do we like leaving them in there.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: TOM Renzo on November 28, 2012, 12:19:09 PM
I dont KNOW FOE IS PISSED AT ME??? And what is with the WOOD BLOCKS. I have a set on my pedals in my car!! I am a tall ITALIAN  5'

And i am an old  and take this stuff to sereyous. Thanks for clearing that up. You know if i want to get yelled at all i have to do is go home!!! Thanks JAY!!!
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: Beau on November 28, 2012, 12:26:43 PM
Coffee and doughnuts for all, my treat! lol

(for once it ain't me causing a shiznitstorm lol)

Here's something to think about...your cars all run, and run without wiping out every battery that gets set in them. One reason why mine isn't. Any takers? (I know why the battery drains...let's just see who else can tell why) ;)

Feel free to look through my back pics/threads, and figure it out. It's not hard, lol
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: 86cougar on November 28, 2012, 12:58:01 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;403482
I dont KNOW FOE IS PISSED AT ME??? And what is with the WOOD BLOCKS. I have a set on my pedals in my car!! I am a tall ITALIAN  5'

And i am an old  and take this stuff to sereyous. Thanks for clearing that up. You know if i want to get yelled at all i have to do is go home!!! Thanks JAY!!!

Tom, your Itallian? So's my girlfriend.... MY GOD, I'm surrounded!!! Vinnie, NICE WORK BRO.!!!! We'll have Tom in a nut ward in no time (lol). ONLY JOKING TOM!!!!!!!
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: Chrome on November 28, 2012, 01:16:56 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;403482
I dont KNOW FOE IS PISSED AT ME??? And what is with the WOOD BLOCKS. I have a set on my pedals in my car!! I am a tall ITALIAN  5'

And i am an old  and take this stuff to sereyous. Thanks for clearing that up. You know if i want to get yelled at all i have to do is go home!!! Thanks JAY!!!
Hey Foghorn, we'll teach you to take a joke if it kills us. By the way, why did your wife cross the road?
(http://[IMG]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii295/MARC1963/Foghorn_Leghorn.png)[/IMG]
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: jcassity on November 28, 2012, 02:16:09 PM
love ya tom!,, just playin cause we like you.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: Crazy88 on November 28, 2012, 02:36:54 PM
Quote from: Chrome;403487
Hey Foghorn, we'll teach you to take a joke if it kills us. By the way, why did your wife cross the road?
(http://[IMG]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii295/MARC1963/Foghorn_Leghorn.png)[/IMG]

Um, could it be to have her upper lip waxed... after all, with Tom being Italian, it stands to reason that his wife might be also. ;)

I DO hope that Tom understands that I am only joking...
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 28, 2012, 02:46:44 PM
Alright....I installed a replacement fusible link I had in a harness. Mine was a 20, this one is an 18. I couldn't find a 20 anywhere in town. I'll check Ford on Monday. So far, seems good to go. Test driving soon.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: Beau on November 28, 2012, 02:47:45 PM
Hell, I'd wax my upper lip if only to keep that stubbly shiznit from growing out every 3 hours.

Hell, I'm part German, but don't ask me about my kielbasa. It's no Italian sausage, but it's...oh hell, nevermind,. lol
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: Crazy88 on November 28, 2012, 02:53:21 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;403497
Hell, I'd wax my upper lip if only to keep that stubbly shiznit from growing out every 3 hours.

Easy fix, let it grow... ;)
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;403497
Hell, I'm part German, but don't ask me about my kielbasa. It's no Italian sausage, but it's...oh hell, nevermind,. lol

Um, yeah... I am thinking one MIGHT be getting a bit too close to that TMI area, LOL.  Besides, I doubt Tom needs much encouragement to drop trou ;)
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: Chrome on November 28, 2012, 07:09:40 PM
Quote from: mcb82gt;403469
Humor can be hard to convey with typing. LOL

 
I do have to agree with this. I think I have ticked people off a time or two on accident.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: Chrome on November 28, 2012, 07:11:45 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;403497
Hell, I'd wax my upper lip if only to keep that stubbly shiznit from growing out every 3 hours.

Hell, I'm part German, but don't ask me about my kielbasa. It's no Italian sausage, but it's...oh hell, nevermind,. lol

Don't worry. We won't ask about your kielbasa.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 28, 2012, 07:57:38 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;403439
Started from a pinched wire. I HATE electrical stuff. I don't mind soldering, making a little harness....whatever, but I HATE diagnosing this . I'll have it all back in order before lunch tomorrow.

BUT a little diagnostics beats pulling the fuel pump even if you do have a access hatch... It's a well known fact on most all Ford vehicles, that if the fuel pump doesn't run and there is no CEL at switch on, the ECM probably isn't receiving power...
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: TOM Renzo on November 28, 2012, 08:57:40 PM
Now what about the lifter change. What is that all about??? Just curious!!!
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: 86cougar on November 28, 2012, 09:53:04 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;403519
BUT a little diagnostics beats pulling the fuel pump even if you do have a access hatch... It's a well known fact on most all Ford vehicles, that if the fuel pump doesn't run and there is no CEL at switch on, the ECM probably isn't receiving power...
I know having a fuel pump in your gas tank is suppose to keep it cool, I also know what a pain they are to replace. So, why don't I hear more about in line fuel pumps?
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 28, 2012, 10:07:38 PM
Quote from: 86cougar;403529
I know having a fuel pump in your gas tank is suppose to keep it cool, I also know what a pain they are to replace. So, why don't I hear more about in line fuel pumps?

THAT is why I made an access panel in the trunk floor. Well sealed, 100% hidden when the carpet and panels are installed, and makes pump access a 5 minute job, no jack, no worrying about a full fuel tank. Easy stuff.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 28, 2012, 10:09:52 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;403524
Now what about the lifter change. What is that all about??? Just curious!!!

I had a couple of rockers that were fine before the last engine damage, but after the damage and repairs, the rockers were loose, no matter what, but they were fine (same rods, rockers and lifters0, so, I replaced the roller lifters with new ones, and everything fits great again, and the engine sounds much happier. I was thinking some  got into the lifters and they weren't working as they should.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: Chrome on November 28, 2012, 10:26:50 PM
Quote from: 86cougar;403529
I know having a fuel pump in your gas tank is suppose to keep it cool, I also know what a pain they are to replace. So, why don't I hear more about in line fuel pumps?
Not only is a cool pump a happy pump, but these cars are designed for them. If you change to an inline pump you will find difficulty modifying the lines to fit. I could be wrong, but I think in tank pumps are cheaper as well. I am curious as to why I don't hear anything about adding a drain fitting into the tank. However, Vinnie's access panel is a niffty idea!
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: Chrome on November 28, 2012, 10:39:49 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;403532
I had a couple of rockers that were fine before the last engine damage, but after the damage and repairs, the rockers were loose, no matter what, but they were fine (same rods, rockers and lifters0, so, I replaced the roller lifters with new ones, and everything fits great again, and the engine sounds much happier. I was thinking some  got into the lifters and they weren't working as they should.
Glad you got it fixed. What kind of roller lifters did you get?
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 28, 2012, 10:58:34 PM
Eaton roller lifters. Got them brand new from a guy on Ebay for less than $80 for all of them. Bought them Saturday, had them here on Monday. They came from Spokane Washington to Oklahoma in a wicked hurry.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: jcassity on November 29, 2012, 08:27:21 AM
Quote from: vinnietbird;403496
Alright....I installed a replacement fusible link I had in a harness. Mine was a 20, this one is an 18. I couldn't find a 20 anywhere in town. I'll check Ford on Monday. So far, seems good to go. Test driving soon.

 
the wire is just high temp rated / oil resistant and crimped at either end.  no need for a dealer part.  all you have to do is make the attempt to keep true to color.,,then be sure to solder (not crimp) the new link in.
the oem connections are cad welded on the ends inside the crimp area inside the black round housing.

i like small circuit breakers like big rooster shipped me over, often contemplated doing a breaker bank next to the solienoid and delete the fuse links.
Title: I'm hoping a relay, but.....
Post by: jcassity on November 29, 2012, 08:30:32 AM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;403457
Jay here is my relocated solenoid on my Mustang Drop top. I relocate them when i clean up the engine compartment. Note the FUSE LINKS OFF THE SOLENOID!!! They are their and that is all i was telling VINNY

This setup is under the front splash guard completely out of site so the engine compartment is PRISTINE!!! Just saying. Hiding wires is what i like to do along with UGLY SOLENOIDS!!!

Thanks JAY i hope this clears up the fuse link DILEMA you think i posted incorrectly Tom The ROOSTER!!!

(http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/tomrenzo/Kitties136.jpg)


is that a buss extender you have on your + common contact? is it tin coated or solder tinned copper? or AL?