Title: AOD Question
Post by: Erik J Designs on October 31, 2012, 01:27:29 AM
Post by: Erik J Designs on October 31, 2012, 01:27:29 AM
So I've been talking to BJL about my engine/tranny/rear swap
(93 SC 3.8/AOD/Mk VII 8.8 Posi)
and i have been told that the AOD can seem sluggish compared to the drivetrain w/ a 5spd. Any modifications i can have made to my spare AOD trans that would get some Get-up-and-go down to the road?
What about rear gears?
I have yet to receive my rear but once i do i will know the ratio
(93 SC 3.8/AOD/Mk VII 8.8 Posi)
and i have been told that the AOD can seem sluggish compared to the drivetrain w/ a 5spd. Any modifications i can have made to my spare AOD trans that would get some Get-up-and-go down to the road?
What about rear gears?
I have yet to receive my rear but once i do i will know the ratio
Title: AOD Question
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 31, 2012, 10:38:32 AM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 31, 2012, 10:38:32 AM
Wide ratio mod. Gets that first ratio up to 2.84:1 second to 1.55. You'll lose .03:1 in the overdrive, but you shouldn't notice. I did mine by transplanting the entire stack from a 4R70W, but not any of the hydraulics, as they are 100% incompatible. Ideally, you want a 4R70W from a 5.4L equipped truck or van, they have more clutches in the forward clutch and the intermediate clutch. You'll need a sharp eye, though, because a lot of the 5.4 stuff runs a 4R100, which is nothing like the 4R70W. All 4R70W's will give you lighter, stronger shells and more clutches in the direct clutch, as well as a 2 inch OD band and drum. It was, I shiznit you not, a direct swap to pull the 4R70W stack and assemble it in my AOD (to which I now refer to as an AODW). I run a 3.73 with mine, I like it, but if I had it to do again, I'd do a 3.55 because of how much time I spend on the freeway. This will relieve the tendency of the AOD to WOT upshift at under 5000 RPM.
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Erik J Designs on October 31, 2012, 04:56:03 PM
Post by: Erik J Designs on October 31, 2012, 04:56:03 PM
Ok cool so what if i get upgrade parts from:http://www.broaderperformance.com/34-ford-aod (http://"http://www.broaderperformance.com/34-ford-aod")
Are there any other upgrade transmission parts i might want to invest in while building?
Thanks for the info
Are there any other upgrade transmission parts i might want to invest in while building?
Thanks for the info
Title: AOD Question
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 31, 2012, 06:48:09 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 31, 2012, 06:48:09 PM
None that I can think of. Best bet is to get a used 4R70W, gut it, and replace all the clutches and steels. Make sure to use the 4R70W type, as they have grooves in the clutches that allow fluid to escape from in between quickly, this will help make sure you have good positive shifts, and will help reduce slipping during engagement. What you give up in surface area, you'll gain in holding capacity. And above all else, be sure to set the Throttle valve precisely, or you'll burn the thing up in 50 miles or less.
I didn't ask, but what is the power level you're dealing with? I see that we're talking about a 3.8, but I know a performance aftermarket is starting to rise up for these, so I thought I'd ask.
I didn't ask, but what is the power level you're dealing with? I see that we're talking about a 3.8, but I know a performance aftermarket is starting to rise up for these, so I thought I'd ask.
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Sick88Tbird on October 31, 2012, 08:37:04 PM
Post by: Sick88Tbird on October 31, 2012, 08:37:04 PM
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;401689
...This will relieve the tendency of the AOD to WOT upshift at under 5000 RPM.
That's not a "tendency", the AOD in the fox t-bird/cougar and mustangs came with a 4700rpm governor, it's designed to shift there....combine the wide ratio swap with a Silverfox valvebody and you have a serious transmission on the cheap with the ability to adjust WOT shift rpm within a given window.
Good luck,
Don
Title: AOD Question
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 31, 2012, 09:00:37 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 31, 2012, 09:00:37 PM
I've heard other guys talk about a 4700 rpm governor, too, but I didn't mess with my governor or my valve body, and after wide-ratio and 3.73, I can wot upshift at 6200. In fact, the original Ford Racing wide ratio Kit instructions warn of this, because some guys installed aftermarket governors and the combo of that plus the kit would cause the trans to either slip on upshifts or not upshift at all.
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 01, 2012, 02:00:23 AM
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 01, 2012, 02:00:23 AM
Currently the only mods my engine has is a chipped ECM and a 10% pulley on the SC but that is what i was told, i haven't started seeing what else is there. Supposedly the output is 220hp and 310tq so im guessing around there for now.
Title: AOD Question
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on November 01, 2012, 07:11:15 AM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on November 01, 2012, 07:11:15 AM
You shouldn't need to go crazy then. A good AODW build with V8 parts like I described should be much more than adequate. Mine, according to my research, should be good for 450 HP if I add a performance valvebody. I haven't yet because I'm only in the 265-275 range currently.
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Sick88Tbird on November 01, 2012, 07:28:30 PM
Post by: Sick88Tbird on November 01, 2012, 07:28:30 PM
The real question is WHICH aod do you have...if it's a supercoupe aod, you already have a pretty tough trans that's already packed with "V8" parts and really may just need a looser convertor...those SC 3.8's make most of their torque down low and early and a stock AOD 1st gear is fine...you really won't gain much in that combo with the 4R70W guts, but you will gain a little more durability, as those we're still stronger than AOD's....you certainly don't want to spin that 3.8 to 6200rpm either...at that point, you'd just be making noise....
If you have the stock 3.8 AOD, baby it until you can afford something better....what would really be helpful is if you put some sticky tires on it and went to Atco to make some runs so we can see what it's doing.
Good luck,
Don
If you have the stock 3.8 AOD, baby it until you can afford something better....what would really be helpful is if you put some sticky tires on it and went to Atco to make some runs so we can see what it's doing.
Good luck,
Don
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 01, 2012, 09:11:53 PM
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 01, 2012, 09:11:53 PM
Thanks for the question,
I have both, My drivetrain i bought has a rebuilt 93 SC AOD (out in my garage) but my bird has its stock 3.8 AOD in it now
I have both, My drivetrain i bought has a rebuilt 93 SC AOD (out in my garage) but my bird has its stock 3.8 AOD in it now
Title: AOD Question
Post by: thunderjet302 on November 01, 2012, 11:42:50 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on November 01, 2012, 11:42:50 PM
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;401689
Wide ratio mod. Gets that first ratio up to 2.84:1 second to 1.55. You'll lose .03:1 in the overdrive, but you shouldn't notice. I did mine by transplanting the entire stack from a 4R70W, but not any of the hydraulics, as they are 100% incompatible. Ideally, you want a 4R70W from a 5.4L equipped truck or van, they have more clutches in the forward clutch and the intermediate clutch. You'll need a sharp eye, though, because a lot of the 5.4 stuff runs a 4R100, which is nothing like the 4R70W. All 4R70W's will give you lighter, stronger shells and more clutches in the direct clutch, as well as a 2 inch OD band and drum. It was, I shiznit you not, a direct swap to pull the 4R70W stack and assemble it in my AOD (to which I now refer to as an AODW). I run a 3.73 with mine, I like it, but if I had it to do again, I'd do a 3.55 because of how much time I spend on the freeway. This will relieve the tendency of the AOD to WOT upshift at under 5000 RPM.
Do you have traction issues with the wide ratio upgrade? My trans guy said if I had gone with the wide ratio upgrade I would have traction issues and not see much if any of an improvement in ET. I do have a 2800 non lock up converter, and traction issues. I would say that if he's building the trans a good, higher stall torque converter is a worthwhile upgrade.
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Sick88Tbird on November 02, 2012, 08:10:14 PM
Post by: Sick88Tbird on November 02, 2012, 08:10:14 PM
Definitely install the SC transmission...I think you'll blow those skinny tires off no matter what first gear ratio you have...lol.
Title: AOD Question
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on November 02, 2012, 08:14:23 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on November 02, 2012, 08:14:23 PM
I don't have traction problems, except the open diff I still have out back.
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Sick88Tbird on November 02, 2012, 08:56:27 PM
Post by: Sick88Tbird on November 02, 2012, 08:56:27 PM
Some may consider that to be a major traction problem...lol....my CV was almost undrivable when I first got it with the 3.08 open rear and 215/70R14's...a T-Lok and some 3.73's coupled with the 235/55R17's solved those problems...until I put in the 351/T5...lol. It's all relative...the way I see it...if you can't launch it like you're angry because you might spin...you have traction problems...lol.
-Don
-Don
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 02, 2012, 11:29:10 PM
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 02, 2012, 11:29:10 PM
Yeah the rear tire will be gone, getting rear 15" steelies and i will throw on 255/70R15 wide whitewalls in the rear as long as they fit in my wheel wells
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Sick88Tbird on November 03, 2012, 02:40:02 PM
Post by: Sick88Tbird on November 03, 2012, 02:40:02 PM
I can promise you, you'll want shorter sidewalls...I wouldn't go any taller than a 255/60R15 and they're still tall...255/70s don't have much tread width. Do you hang out with the TsTaCC guys? Kinda wish I still lived up there so I could see this SC swapped bad boy.
Good luck,
Don
Good luck,
Don
Title: AOD Question
Post by: thunderjet302 on November 04, 2012, 01:35:05 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on November 04, 2012, 01:35:05 PM
Quote from: Sick88Tbird;401828
Some may consider that to be a major traction problem...lol....my CV was almost undrivable when I first got it with the 3.08 open rear and 215/70R14's...a T-Lok and some 3.73's coupled with the 235/55R17's solved those problems...until I put in the 351/T5...lol. It's all relative...the way I see it...if you can't launch it like you're angry because you might spin...you have traction problems...lol.
-Don
Well I can't launch at full throttle or the car goes sideways so yeah I have some traction issues. I need some drag radials so this thing can hook.
Back on topic. The original poster may want a 4R70W gear set in his AOD. Being that he's going to run a 3.8 V6 with a supercharger the smaller displacement engine is going to want more gear to get off the line. I know when I had my 95 T-bird with a 3.8 and 4R70W it felt a bit stronger down low than a 93 3.8 T-bird with an AOD I drove before I bought the 95. The wide ratio gear set gave the 3.8 a bit more oomph down low, which it needed.
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 04, 2012, 03:13:34 PM
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 04, 2012, 03:13:34 PM
Don, yeah i know a lot of the TsTaCC guys up this way I met them years ago when i had my TC. I talked to BJL and yeah the tire choice may be too high, im just looking for a white wall that will be wide enough to fill the wheel well but keep the same look my car has going for it now. Any suggestions? I am going to grab the Broader Performance AOD Wide Ratio Gear Kit, that should do the job correct?
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Sick88Tbird on November 05, 2012, 05:59:05 PM
Post by: Sick88Tbird on November 05, 2012, 05:59:05 PM
I really think if you can find a 255/60R15 in whitewall, you'd be happy...it should definitely fill the wells. I still think that the WR kit will be too much gear off the line with the 3.73's out back...that SC 3.8 will be falling off in torque rapidly after 3500rpm...I've driven torquey cars that were over-geared...it's not fun because you don't get to use all your torque down low. Just my opinion...you may want to look online for some dyno charts on stock-ish SuperCoupes to see what's happening in the torque curve.
Good luck,
Don
Good luck,
Don
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 05, 2012, 09:23:04 PM
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 05, 2012, 09:23:04 PM
i plan on changing the rear gearing to 3.55's for more highway use at speed
Title: AOD Question
Post by: daminc on November 05, 2012, 10:00:17 PM
Post by: daminc on November 05, 2012, 10:00:17 PM
the 15" 255 60s def fill the well..I got them on my 87
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 06, 2012, 02:00:37 AM
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 06, 2012, 02:00:37 AM
Because of how low my car sits i think i may go with these tires instead since they will fit but i know i won't have any rubbing issues: (2) 215/60R15 pen 15er Tires 2'' Whitewall Width
So far the set up will be:
93 SC 3.8L V6
AOD SC trans w/ Auto Trans AOD to 4R70W Wide Ratio Kit, Auto Trans AOD Upgrade Torque Converter, and Auto Trans AOD Clutch Upgrade Kit
8.8 Lincoln disc rear w/ 3.55 gears
15" rear wheels w/ (2) 215/60R15 pen 15er Tires 2'' Whitewall Width to match the front whitewalls
So far the set up will be:
93 SC 3.8L V6
AOD SC trans w/ Auto Trans AOD to 4R70W Wide Ratio Kit, Auto Trans AOD Upgrade Torque Converter, and Auto Trans AOD Clutch Upgrade Kit
8.8 Lincoln disc rear w/ 3.55 gears
15" rear wheels w/ (2) 215/60R15 pen 15er Tires 2'' Whitewall Width to match the front whitewalls
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Crazy88 on November 06, 2012, 04:10:27 AM
Post by: Crazy88 on November 06, 2012, 04:10:27 AM
P215/60R15 is a pretty narrow tire. Total height would be 25.1575" or 639mm and width of 8.46457" or 215mm. On the other hand, the P255/60R15 would be 27.0472" or 687mm tall and 10.0394" or 255mm wide, which would be a decently sized tire to fill in the huge wheel well. Our wheel wells are large enough to hold a P295/40R18 comfortably at 27.2835" or 693mm in height and 11.6142" or 295mm in width, with no surgery or clearancing issues with the right(appropriate backspacing and offset) wheel.
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 06, 2012, 10:02:31 PM
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 06, 2012, 10:02:31 PM
OK, well I've made the decision to get rid of the whitewalls for:
Raised White Letter BFGoodrich Radial T/A's 225/60R14's up Front
Raised White Letter BFGoodrich Radial T/A's 275/60R15's in the Rear
Raised White Letter BFGoodrich Radial T/A's 225/60R14's up Front
Raised White Letter BFGoodrich Radial T/A's 275/60R15's in the Rear
Title: AOD Question
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on November 06, 2012, 10:11:45 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on November 06, 2012, 10:11:45 PM
Have you decided how you'll correct the speedometer?
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 06, 2012, 10:46:09 PM
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 06, 2012, 10:46:09 PM
Nah not yet, ill get there once i decide on all my parts
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Sick88Tbird on November 07, 2012, 06:04:52 PM
Post by: Sick88Tbird on November 07, 2012, 06:04:52 PM
275/60's are wicked tall...and you can't use any goofy formulas or tire manufacturers height specs, because they're always wrong when it comes to metric tires...brand new 225/60R15's measure 24.5" tall...you have to measure installed on the wheel, properly inflated and mounted on the car on the ground...and centrifugal force will not cause street tires to grow 1/2" or even 1/4" for the matter....BFG radial t/a's look good but don't hook worth a , been there done that....Nitto 275/50's on the other hand would hook quite nicely. Will it be ready for a trip to Atco in the spring?
Good luck,
Don
Good luck,
Don
Title: AOD Question
Post by: daminc on November 07, 2012, 07:19:27 PM
Post by: daminc on November 07, 2012, 07:19:27 PM
this is what a 255 60 look like.... It's a really big tire
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/IMG_1284.jpg)
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/IMG_1284.jpg)
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 07, 2012, 07:47:46 PM
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 07, 2012, 07:47:46 PM
Yeah im still workin on the tire size thing... I have to send out my intercooler piping to get powder coated then i can start assembly outside the car so i can make sure everything is here, then we'll see if assembly can begin. I still have a large shopping list of parts to grab also.
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Aerocoupe on November 17, 2012, 08:56:34 AM
Post by: Aerocoupe on November 17, 2012, 08:56:34 AM
I would suggest that you ditch the Mark VII rear end and go with a 94-98 GT Mustang rear. Parts are more available, they are cheaper as they are more abundant in the salvage yards, and they can be converted over to the Cobra rear brakes for cheap later down the road. You can most likely find one on a Mustang board with the gears already installed. Good luck with the project as it sounds like a really cool build!
Darren
Darren
Title: AOD Question
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 18, 2012, 01:44:22 AM
Post by: Erik J Designs on November 18, 2012, 01:44:22 AM
I would but i got my rear already... and i work for a yard so its all good im happy with what paid for it, got a deal. Plus i could use the experience w/ the gears. I have the Entire Drivetrain in the garage and im sitting here because i have a 25 pg paper due Monday... done for the night on pg 14 :-/