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Technical => Drivetrain Tech => Topic started by: bryan163 on October 24, 2012, 12:50:17 AM

Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on October 24, 2012, 12:50:17 AM
This project was actually completed 2 weeks ago, but here are the highlights....
My old tranny was a TCI built AOD that worked great until I turbod the car.
Here it is after I pulled it:
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-10-11_22-39-03_547.jpg)
to start the pedal swap I pulled the driver seat and the steering column, and brake pedal assembly.
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-10-10_22-36-03_219.jpg)
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-10-08_19-30-02_516.jpg)
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-10-08_19-29-36_61.jpg)
Here is the manual pedal set next to the auto set
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-10-08_19-29-07_940.jpg)
also had to pull my ratchet shifter
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-10-11_22-06-41_760.jpg)
next installed manual pedal set
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-10-09_19-53-36_214.jpg)
and clutch cable through the fire wall
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-10-10_21-59-47_840.jpg)
then the flywheel, clutch, bell housing, and a T5 went in
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-10-07_20-51-47_404.jpg)
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-10-13_00-46-57_778.jpg)
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-10-15_22-57-49_244.jpg)
The Thunderbird's electronic speed sensor had to be swapped onto the T5 because the Mustang one it came with is for a cable. I did have to use the gear from the mustang one though, because the thunderbird gear was too long
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-10-18_21-19-17_654.jpg)
Used a body saw to cut a hole in the floor and installed the shifter
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-10-15_22-56-53_284.jpg)
All and all, It was a fairly easy swap. I've put a couple hundred miles on it since the swap and I am really liking it:D
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: 86T-bird on October 24, 2012, 12:56:25 AM
Congrats on completing a great upgrade!
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on October 24, 2012, 01:02:21 AM
Thanks, It is so much more fun to drive now! I love how the blow off valve sounds every time I shift.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: FirstBird on October 24, 2012, 02:28:22 AM
Very nice, what did it take to get the SC steering wheel on? The base Tbird steering wheels are just too thin and tc steering wheels are hard to find in junkyards. Also how much did the swap run you?
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: 1BadBird on October 24, 2012, 08:00:44 AM
Nice work Bryan!!
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on October 24, 2012, 08:10:40 AM
Quote from: FirstBird;401141
Very nice, what did it take to get the SC steering wheel on? The base Tbird steering wheels are just too thin and tc steering wheels are hard to find in junkyards. Also how much did the swap run you?

The TC wheel is a direct fit. The cruise control buttons work too.
I think I spent $700 for everything I bought to do the tranny swap.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on October 24, 2012, 08:11:41 AM
:
Quote from: 1BadBird;401147
Nice work Bryan!!

 
Thanks:D
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: dragon574444 on October 24, 2012, 05:21:10 PM
Nice, what clutch are you using? Approximately how many hours did it take from start to finish? I've been meaning to do this swap for over a year now. I just can't afford to have my DD down for more than a weekend...
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: QUICKSHIFT on October 24, 2012, 07:55:42 PM
Nice work Bryan. I did the T5 swap into my 84 and like you said, It's a lot more fun!  :burnout:
PS:  ......now you've got to change your signature...LOL
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on October 24, 2012, 08:00:58 PM
I'm using an OEM style valeo clutch. The whole project took a  weeks worth of my after work time and the weekend. I probably could have done it quicker, but I was taking my sweet time.
I do need to change my sig when I get to my computer.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: QUICKSHIFT on October 24, 2012, 08:07:08 PM
Quote from: dragon574444;401175
Nice, what clutch are you using? Approximately how many hours did it take from start to finish? I've been meaning to do this swap for over a year now. I just can't afford to have my DD down for more than a weekend...
  Do the project in stages. Change the pedal assy on one weekend as this is the hardest part of the swap. The next weekend, install the smaller brake booster to make room for the clutch cable and firewall adjuster. The next and the next or how ever many more it takes, do one more step at a time until it's done.  Good luck.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: dragon574444 on October 24, 2012, 08:27:47 PM
Quote from: QUICKSHIFT;401184
Do the project in stages. Change the pedal assy on one weekend as this is the hardest part of the swap. The next weekend, install the smaller brake booster to make room for the clutch cable and firewall adjuster. The next and the next or how ever many more it takes, do one more step at a time until it's done.  Good luck.

Thanks, I was planning on doing it exactly like that. I've been doing some reading that says it's not absolutely necessary to use a smaller booster with a firewall adjuster. I'll post pics if I make it happen.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: Sinista Chicken on October 24, 2012, 10:57:03 PM
Nice work!  I've been thinking of tossing my aod in favor of a t5 as well.  after seeing the pictures it looks easier than i have been making it out to be.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: Kitz Kat on October 25, 2012, 04:56:46 AM
If you change the pedals,you might as well do the booster at the same time, since they bolt to the same bolts.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on October 25, 2012, 07:48:24 AM
I had the the aluminum master to begin with, so I didn't have to change it. Also there was already a hole in the fire wall for the cable.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on October 25, 2012, 07:52:08 AM
Maybe time to update the sig then.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: 83TB on October 25, 2012, 08:34:52 AM
Nice work and good pics of step by step, have fun!!!
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: T-BirdX3 on October 25, 2012, 08:45:30 AM
Turbo charged V8 with a 5 speed, sounds like a dream come true to me!  :burnout:
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: jwlott85 on October 25, 2012, 01:42:46 PM
love this thread, might do this in conjunction with the 351 swap, what happened to the Aod? did u break it or just sell it?
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on October 25, 2012, 07:07:53 PM
The aod was a TCI built tranny, but it failed shortly after installing the turbo. I gave it to the dude I got the t5 swap parts from because he gave me a bunch of free stuff.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: 1BadBird on October 25, 2012, 07:12:25 PM
At least with the T-5, you can rebuild it with way stronger parts :evilgrin:
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: 1BadBird on October 25, 2012, 07:14:28 PM
At least with the T-5, you can at least rebuild it with much stronger parts. :evilgrin:
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on October 26, 2012, 12:26:35 AM
That's what my friend who runs a speed shop was just telling me. I think that's what I'll do when this one breaks.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: 1BadBird on October 26, 2012, 09:16:54 AM
I believe the place called Hanlon Motorsports has some outrageous gear sets for the T-5
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: Aerocoupe on October 26, 2012, 11:08:29 AM
G-Force, Hanlon, Astro, D&D Performance, etc.  Lots and lots of parts out there for them but when it comes down to it just yank it before it breaks, sell it for $400, and buy a Tremec 600.  The problem with the T-5 is the case and no matter how good the internals are when the case flexes it will grenade.  You can put a lot of hp behind a built T-5 until the drive train gets loaded up and then the hunt for the weak link starts and its usually the T-5.  By the time you invest all that money to make a T-5 stout you could have had a V-8 or in this case a Tremec.

Darren
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: 1BadBird on October 26, 2012, 03:11:20 PM
Very true.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: Sick88Tbird on October 27, 2012, 10:36:56 AM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;401336
G-Force, Hanlon, Astro, D&D Performance, etc.  Lots and lots of parts out there for them but when it comes down to it just yank it before it breaks, sell it for $400, and buy a Tremec 600.  The problem with the T-5 is the case and no matter how good the internals are when the case flexes it will grenade.  You can put a lot of hp behind a built T-5 until the drive train gets loaded up and then the hunt for the weak link starts and its usually the T-5.  By the time you invest all that money to make a T-5 stout you could have had a V-8 or in this case a Tremec.

Darren

 
Couldn't have said it better myself...the lower ratio gearsets(2.95) don't load the case quite as much as the standard 3.35 first gear, however, it's still not the strongest case...I have a t5 behind my 351w crown vic with the 2.95 first gear and I'm hoping it lives long enough for me to save cash for a tremec....with a stock-ish t5, you really need to have a "fuse" in the driveline....the tires or the clutch or both...things that will slip and give way before the trans itself.  They can handle a lot of power, traction and power-shifting abuse when seriously built, but at that point it's about the cost(sometimes more) of a stronger more reliable TKO.

Regardless, love the car and the black wheels and keep having fun with it.  For what it's worth(yeah I spelled it out!), I would do 500 5-speed swaps on fox-bodied cars before doing 1 more on a crown vic/grand marquis...you don't realize how nice bolt-in parts are until you have to convert a car that was never even thought of being a manual.

Good luck,
Don
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on October 27, 2012, 10:42:23 AM
Right now the clutch is the weak link. It is starting to slip under heavy load, like if I do a 5th gear pull. It's fine on the engagements, but as the boost comes on and the car really starts to pull through the upper rpms it will begin to spin the clutch.  Gonna order something stronger today so I can get it done next weekend. Car is still totally fine for now. I have the boost turned down and it was still plenty fast to beat my friends LS1 Camaro. Any one know a good clutch that can handle a lot of power, but has a light pedal feel?
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: 1BadBird on October 27, 2012, 04:51:50 PM
Get a dual-disc set up.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on October 27, 2012, 04:58:35 PM
What kind do you suggest? I can only spend around $300 if I buy it this weekend. I can spend $600 if I wait another week, but I have a drift event on November 17th, so I don't want to wait till the last minute.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on October 27, 2012, 06:22:50 PM
Found this reasonably priced on ebay: (http://i.ebayimg.com/t/McLEOD-RST-TWIN-DISC-CLUTCH-800-HP-FORD-289-302-351-10-SPINE-LARGE-FLYWHEEL-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$(KGrHqIOKpEE6(FM(wdrBO)J4hwJ!g~~60_14.JPG) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110744120657&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en (http://"http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110744120657&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en")
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: 1BadBird on October 27, 2012, 09:19:31 PM
That's a good one, Spec also has one  believe.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: Aerocoupe on October 28, 2012, 10:50:22 AM
Stay away from the Spec clutches unless you like lots of pedal pressure.  The one on E-Bay is for the larger diameter flywheels and will not fit the 157 tooth flywheel you are using.  Do you have any idea as to the HP and Torque numbers the engine has at the flywheel?

Darren
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: FirstBird on October 28, 2012, 03:23:31 PM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;401467
Stay away from the Spec clutches unless you like lots of pedal pressure.  The one on E-Bay is for the larger diameter flywheels and will not fit the 157 tooth flywheel you are using.  Do you have any idea as to the HP and Torque numbers the engine has at the flywheel?

Darren
I'm guessing somewhere over 300 if he beat an ls1 camaro.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: Aerocoupe on October 28, 2012, 08:05:23 PM
The Ford King Cobra clutch set is rated at a little over 300 hp and it a great clutch IMO.  I had one behind the 306 in my Coupe and it made 316 rwhp / 323 ft-lbs of torque.  Pulled it after 10K miles and it is in great shape.  Moving up in power so a RAM setup is going in the car.

Darren
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on October 28, 2012, 08:54:28 PM
Power feels 350ish at 7psi, but planning on running more boost after the new clutch goes in. I  need to over egineer it a little too because drifting requires repeted high rpm clutch kicking.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: 50tbrd88 on October 29, 2012, 12:33:39 PM
Nice upgrade!  I like the T-5 (I need a better shifter, the stock ones suck) in my car with the pretty much stock 5.0 HO in front of it.  Someday I'd like to do a motor build and will be looking at TKO's.

I like the idea of out running LS1 Camaro's with a Fox T-bird!
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: Sick88Tbird on October 29, 2012, 01:01:29 PM
I have a high end Ram clutch in my car...it's got a seriously heavy pedal though...you'll get good at replacing clutch cables with a heavy clutch like that though.

-Don
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on October 29, 2012, 01:02:51 PM
Quote from: 50tbrd88;401554
Nice upgrade!  I like the T-5 (I need a better shifter, the stock ones suck) in my car with the pretty much stock 5.0 HO in front of it.  Someday I'd like to do a motor build and will be looking at TKO's.

I like the idea of out running LS1 Camaro's with a Fox T-bird!
I was thinking about grabbing a Steeda shifter. I was just playing with one in a friends SVO and it felt nice. Out running the LS1 also felt nice :) would have really killed it if I had a better clutch.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on October 29, 2012, 01:06:46 PM
Quote from: Sick88Tbird;401556
I have a high end Ram clutch in my car...it's got a seriously heavy pedal though...you'll get good at replacing clutch cables with a heavy clutch like that though.

-Don
I want something that won't break my quadrant, lol.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: Aerocoupe on October 29, 2012, 04:28:35 PM
If you are hunting shifters go with the MG shifter:

http://www.mgwltd.com/mustang_shifter.shtml

If you are going to drift then I have no idea what clutch to run as I am trying to plant my tires through the turns and run lap times.  Pretty smoke gets me beat:D

Darren
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on October 29, 2012, 10:19:59 PM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;401570
If you are hunting shifters go with the MG shifter:

http://www.mgwltd.com/mustang_shifter.shtml

If you are going to drift then I have no idea what clutch to run as I am trying to plant my tires through the turns and run lap times.  Pretty smoke gets me beat:D

Darren
That shifter looks nicer than the steeda and its in the same price range. You sold me on that. I'm still up in the air on the clutch. I talked to a friend who works at mustangs unlimited and he also recommended a King Cobra clutch, but It has way too low of a torque rating. I think this spec would be a good choice, but it doesn't mention anything about the pedal effort :/
(http://www.ultrarev.com/images/P/SF483_P.jpg)
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/310321876854?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://"http://www.ebay.com/itm/310321876854?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649")
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on October 29, 2012, 11:12:33 PM
Ok, I made my decision and ordered this. Its a Spec rated for 495ft.lbs. And guaranteed to withstand 6000rpm launches.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/SPEC-Ford-Mustang-1986-1995-5-0L-Stage-1-Clutch-SF481-/02/!BlLyKB!Bmk~$(KGrHqUOKj8Esw5sK4EtBL,n4-E1!g~~_12.JPG)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320483893973 (http://"http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320483893973")
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 30, 2012, 09:36:27 AM
Quote from: bryan163;401624
Ok, I made my decision and ordered this. Its a Spec rated for 495ft.lbs. And guaranteed to withstand 6000rpm launches.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/SPEC-Ford-Mustang-1986-1995-5-0L-Stage-1-Clutch-SF481-/02/!BlLyKB!Bmk~$(KGrHqUOKj8Esw5sK4EtBL,n4-E1!g~~_12.JPG)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320483893973 (http://"http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320483893973")


Can you cancel the order??? We have used those clutches in the past and they SUCK. SORRY and they are DICKS about warranty and customer service is the pits. Their clutches SUCK!!! Sorry just being truthful. Not being a wise guy. They do not stand by their products one BIT!!!

NOTE unless they have made changes since we no longer use their stuff. You might want to check on that. As we had to eat many a clutch job because the rivets separated from the HUB and they told us to POUND SAND SEVERAL TIMES!!
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on October 30, 2012, 10:39:29 AM
Really? I had one in my 400HP Maxima and it had torn apart 2 other clutches in days. Then I put a spec in and its been fine ever since. Only problem was that it has a very harsh engagement. This one should be smooth though, being a full face disc. The main deciding factor on buying this exact one was the price. $220 was a bargain for a name brand rated 495ft.lbs. I shopped it out quite a bit. Hope it holds at least for 1 season.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: Sick88Tbird on October 30, 2012, 09:02:12 PM
I posted earlier I had a ram clutch...it's been awhile...it's actually a Zoom and clutch chatter is not only considered acceptable for this clutch, Zoom says to expect it....I've heard of a lot of guys using Spec clutches in the import world, but never really heard any feedback about them one way or the other.  I saw a few posts earlier that an MGW shifter was recommended....best shifter money can buy...they could double the price and anybody who's ever used one on a T-5 will tell you they're still worth every penny.

Good luck,
Don
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on November 01, 2012, 11:45:50 PM
Quote from: Sick88Tbird;401650
I posted earlier I had a ram clutch...it's been awhile...it's actually a Zoom and clutch chatter is not only considered acceptable for this clutch, Zoom says to expect it....I've heard of a lot of guys using Spec clutches in the import world, but never really heard any feedback about them one way or the other.  I saw a few posts earlier that an MGW shifter was recommended....best shifter money can buy...they could double the price and anybody who's ever used one on a T-5 will tell you they're still worth every penny.

Good luck,
Don
Glad to get some definitive feedback on that. Definitely gonna get the MGW then.
I ended up putting in a hydraulic hand brake too, so I can reach over and lock the rear tires when needed.
(http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/2140_10151490126558222_368761690_n.jpg)
Tig welded up some 1/8th inch late to make the mounting bracket.
(http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/407668_10151490126393222_59156617_n.jpg)
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: Sick88Tbird on November 02, 2012, 08:52:24 PM
Sweeeeeeeeeet.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: Trinom on November 03, 2012, 05:06:45 PM
Very nice. I'm thinking of doing the same in the future on my silver bird.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on November 11, 2012, 10:36:38 AM
Got the new clutch in. I'm trying to get some miles on it today to get it broken in for a drift event at Lime Rock next weekend.
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-11-06_23-43-04_403.jpg)
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-11-07_23-38-29_163.jpg)
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-11-09_21-48-56_921.jpg)
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-11-09_22-18-44_962.jpg)
Changed the front and rear seals on the trans too.
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-11-07_21-55-50_654.jpg)
Also welded a plate on the shifter to move it back to a better position for me.
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/bryan163photobucket/2012-11-07_17-48-06_397.jpg)
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: 1BadBird on November 11, 2012, 10:56:17 AM
Looks like that shifter mod will work till you get that MGW unit.:burnout:
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on November 11, 2012, 02:46:58 PM
Yup, building cars goes one paycheck at a time. Hopefully will be ordering the MGW out of next weeks check :) Has anyone else felt that the shifter was a little to far forward with the t5? it just seemed like i was reaching for gears.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: Aerocoupe on November 11, 2012, 03:00:34 PM
If you are tall it will feel to far forward or at least it does for me and I am 6'-1".  That is why the MGW will be going in the car after I get it running again.

Darren
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on November 11, 2012, 05:45:05 PM
I'm only 5'6. I thought the problem was that I was too short.  I guess it just needs to be moved back a little for our cars. The other problem I have is grinding 2nd gear when the tranny is cold. Once it warms up it shifts fine.
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on November 27, 2012, 05:18:14 PM
I just ordered some goodies :) I got the MGW Shifter and the white  with blue stripes(with the 5 speed gear pattern, of course).
(http://www.mgwltd.com/images/ca-short_throw_shifter.jpg)
(http://www.mgwltd.com/images/rally_series_shift_balls.jpg)
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on December 01, 2012, 02:45:25 AM
Got a package today.
(http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/223997_10151545029663222_961197208_n.jpg)
Title: Decided to go 5 speed (with pics)
Post by: bryan163 on December 02, 2012, 12:14:30 PM
I'm loving the new shifter it feels as good as it looks.
(http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/154598_10151545879298222_299392927_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/21799_10151546041088222_1885958201_n.jpg)
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